Need Help with Picking Solar System

Ljase7777 on 05/07/2024 - 12:21
Last edited 09/07/2024 - 21:45

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Please be kind. :)

I have been looking at quotes for solar systems for the house and have gotten a couple of system recommendations from various installers. This is where I'm stuck as I have no idea which system/brand is better, and pricing is vastly different. I am calling on the OzB brains trust for guidance.

Our house consumes a fair bit of electricity so the installers have recommended maxxing the kW. We have received the following quotes so far:

Quote 1: 10.7kW ($11.8k after STC)

Panels: Aiko Solar Neostar 2P 465W x 23
Inverter: SAJ R6-10KS3

Quote 2: 10.7kW ($14.6k after STC)

Panels: Aiko Solar Neostar 2P 465W x 23
Inverter: SolarEdge SE10000H
Plus Optimizers

Quote 3: 11.4kW ($8k after STC)

Panels: Jinko Tiger Neo 60HL4-V 475W x 24
Inverter: Growatt MIN 10000TL-X
Plus Optimizers

Additional consideration - We are not going for a battery right now but would like the option to add one on if needed in the future. Have been informed that all 3 inverters above can support a battery in the future.

House details:
* Backyard is west facing
* All proposals are for the panels to go on the second floor roof and some on the deck roof at an angle facing north
* Single phase

Not sure what other info is required so please feel free to ask questions and I'll add more info.

Would love to hear your experiences with these systems/brands so comment away, and don't forget to vote in the poll too!

Update: Pulled the trigger on Jinko panels and a Sungrow inverter.

Poll Options expired

  • 2
    Quote 1
  • 2
    Quote 2
  • 76
    Quote 3
  • 32
    None of the above
Home & Garden Solar Energy System

Comments

          • jase7777 on 09/07/2024 - 09:05

            @microsnot: It's set to 21deg which I think is an ok temp?

            • microsnot on 09/07/2024 - 16:04

              @jase7777: I guess it's personal but we just do 18°C during the day and much lower overnight. If you have decent insulation and minimal leaks then it is quite confortable. Try 20°C and measure the impact it has on your electricity usage.

              https://www.energy.gov.au/households/household-guides/season…

              Set your thermostat
              You can save money by having a programmable thermostat. Keep the internal temperature of your heating set to between 18°C and 20°C.

              Every degree you increase your heating can add up to 10% on your energy use.

              Set your thermostat to warm your house for times you need it. Turn it off overnight and when you’re away from home.

  • grr1701 on 07/07/2024 - 09:05

    Also remember that you’ll still be paying the daily “connection fee” to stay connected to the grid. Power companies never miss an opportunity.

    • jase7777 on 07/07/2024 - 16:25

      That's how they get ya!

  • grr1701 on 07/07/2024 - 09:07

    Have. Look at panels with microinverters, too.

    • deeevan on 07/07/2024 - 10:08

      I have microinverters because the roof layout and shading necessitated it. I wouldn’t look at them if no need, because the cost was (is? dunno, it’s been a few years) much higher.

      • grr1701 on 08/07/2024 - 07:59

        You can also see if any individual panel is failing. With normal panels, if one produces at 20% for example, theyALL generate at 20%. This doesn’t happen with micrinverters.

  • klonky on 07/07/2024 - 11:53

    OP, before you jump in to solar, how is your insulation? Reason I ask is if your house is poorly insulated your solar will not be saving you much if you need to run heating/cooling overnight.

    • jase7777 on 07/07/2024 - 16:24

      Good point. No idea. We only just moved in and the electricity bill is scaring the crap out of me.

  • tidie on 07/07/2024 - 13:06
    +1

    I have a 6.6kw system with jinko panels and goodwe inverter, my only regret was that I went with optimisers instead of a bigger capacity system.
    Optimisers didn't help much at all if you have pronounced shading issue, i.e. shadow covers a big portion of the roof during winter. Also the panels themself have bypass diodes which act similarly to optimisers and the inverter has a MPPT tracking capability to adjust voltage to maximise output.
    The cheapest system in your list will do the job as fine, you won't notice any difference in production and their 30/10 yr warranties are good. I tried to contact both Jinko and Growatt office in Australia prior to my purchase (even tho I chose Goodwe in the end for better MPPT tracking ), they were both quite helpful.

    Hope my experience will help you a little.

    • jase7777 on 07/07/2024 - 16:25
      +1

      Thank you!

  • Joda on 07/07/2024 - 15:35

    Bit off topic - we have too many surrounding trees for it to be worthwhile to get solar.

    Anyone know if it's viable to just get a battery, charge it off-peak - then draw power off the battery?

    • Mrgreenz on 07/07/2024 - 17:54
      +1

      Very very unlikely

      • Joda on 07/07/2024 - 20:23

        Very very unlikely

        Any details on why unlikely?

        Seems possible from some gov links below - I've just never heard of it being done or if its financially viable on its own

        https://www.solar.vic.gov.au/how-does-solar-battery-system-w…
        Some batteries can be charged from grid electricity during off peak times (often overnight) on a time-of-use tariff when electricity is cheaper than during the day.

        https://www.solar.vic.gov.au/solar-battery-buyers-guide/sect…
        Some households want to take advantage of off-peak electricity rates and charge their battery from the grid at times when their system is generating less solar, in winter for instance.

        • SBOB on 07/07/2024 - 20:33
          +3

          Do your own maths.

          Eg, a powerwall 3 is 13.5kWh, though unlikely fully usable for battery longevity.
          Use your off-peak and peak rates and work out cost to charge once per night at off-peak and drain once at peak.

          Eg made up numbers
          off-peak 15c/kWh, peak 50c/kWh, at best that's about $4.50 a day, or about $1600 a year.
          A powerwall installed is maybe $14000, so about 9 years to break even (ignoring opportunity cost of that $14k)

          Now do the same with your own real numbers and see why everyone isnt just installing batteries for off-peak/peak arbitrage $

          • Joda on 07/07/2024 - 21:13

            @SBOB: Thanks - that's really helpful.

          • tcme on 08/07/2024 - 18:27

            @SBOB: You're forgetting all the appliances you can run in off peak. I'll be saving $2.5k a year of my power bill by going off peak, so around 4.5 year ROI

            • SBOB on 08/07/2024 - 19:24

              @tcme: You can run appliances in off peak with or without solar or a battery.
              Running appliances in off peak clearly shouldn't factor into an ROI on solar or battery systems.

              • tcme on 09/07/2024 - 11:27

                @SBOB: But I wouldn't move to time of use without a battery. We discharge the battery completely just after off peak, so saves $8 a day having a battery.

                • Joda on 09/07/2024 - 13:28

                  @tcme: Are you running it just battery alone (no solar panels)?

                  Is it a Powerwall or cheaper alternative?

                  • tcme on 09/07/2024 - 15:41
                    +1

                    @Joda: Panels too,

                    Powerwall 2

                • SBOB on 09/07/2024 - 16:39

                  @tcme:

                  But I wouldn't move to time of use without a battery. We discharge the battery completely just after off peak, so saves $8 a day having a battery.

                  on a powerwall 2 (so what? 12kwh)?
                  I'll assume you've done the maths but no idea how having the battery changes whether you decide to load shift or not or means you would or wouldnt, unless your solar is only generating excess capacity enough to charge your battery and nothing else.
                  And $8/day would exceed pretty much any 'assumptions' on ROI on a battery system I have ever seen, so thats 'impressive'.

                  The benefit of the battery is, assuming 1 cycle a day (based on your draining in peak), the difference in (Peak rate - FIT rate * battery capacity (so about 12kwh for a powerwall 2?)

                  The moving of when you run appliances only works for up to the capacity of your battery and assumes normal appliances which you cant load shift (lights, fridge, cooking dinner etc) are in that total also.

                  • tcme on 09/07/2024 - 17:25

                    @SBOB: 13.5 KwH capacity for the Powerwall 2.

                    Instead of paying $0.34/kwh an hour flat rate, on time of use with off peak, we pay $0.14/kwh. The battery charges to 100% at this rate, and then covers us in the peak rate of $0.56kwh/ which almost always flattens the battery just after 9pm due to the kitchen, aircon etc. That's a saving of $5.67/day sorry, which is just over $2k a year in savings.

                    That, if I recall correctly, is a 20% ROI over ten years. Not bad considering it's tax free and risk free.

            • Joda on 09/07/2024 - 10:46

              @tcme: 4.5 year ROI for battery alone seems great!
              @SBOB has about 9 years ROI for battery alone

              A few references I found had ROI for battery & solar as 10+ years

              Seems like best ROI for battery is without having solar?

              • SBOB on 09/07/2024 - 16:40
                +1

                @Joda: I'd want to see a very detailed breakdown of initial installation cost + daily power usage reduction to come up with a 4.5 year ROI on a powerwall.
                If that was the 'normal' case, sales of home battery installations would 100x overnight.

                • tcme on 09/07/2024 - 17:31
                  +1

                  @SBOB: $15,500 Powerwall 2 installation cost - $4,000 QLD gov grant = $11,500 cost.

                  My bad, 5.5 years: https://imgur.com/a/6OhPGB8

                  • SBOB on 09/07/2024 - 20:32
                    +1

                    @tcme: You are neglecting a few numbers in your roi calc.

                    That 11.5k has 'value' over those years (eg in an offset account or high interest savings account of 5%, compounded that's about 4k of interest over 6 years)

                    Your solar would otherwise be generating feed in tariff, which while low, is not yet 0c.

                    The battery also, while under warranty, does have 'acceptable' degredation levels, meaning you may not have 13kw from day 0 to year X when 'break even' maths happens.

                    Glad your happy with your powerwall, and if you're using it to it's fullest, you'll definitely benefit over the long term, but anyone doing this from 0 should consider all the numbers when making an ROI calc on battery vs no battery (including both financial and other tangible benefits) and how many years the actual 'break even' point is.

                    • tcme on 09/07/2024 - 20:41
                      +1

                      @SBOB: Well a third of the year where I am no solar is generated, and whilst true it doesn't take into account the opportunity cost as it's a simple equation, power is only going to become more expensive and feed in tariff eliminated. There's also the premium of electricity security.

                • Joda on 09/07/2024 - 17:36

                  @SBOB: Yep, needs the breakdown.
                  But maybe viable - I'll make some calls to look into this - and maybe cheaper battery options if not using solar??

                  Thanks for your feedback.

                  • tcme on 09/07/2024 - 17:37
                    +1

                    @Joda: Breakdown I gave above, albeit that was with the grant and doesn't even take into account the panels.

                    • Joda on 09/07/2024 - 18:09

                      @tcme: Thanks - sounds viable if I can get a grant or cheaper battery - will look into this further.

                      Interesting concept if battery is a more viable ROI without solar??
                      Maybe not many doing this as solar alone is still better ROI than battery alone - but I have too many trees for solar.

                      • tcme on 09/07/2024 - 19:28
                        +1

                        @Joda: On a time of use tariff, yes it is. However, the qld grant required you to have solar.

  • MagicMushroom on 08/07/2024 - 01:38
    +1

    I was quoted $7299 after STC for 10.12kW 23x Jinko JKM440N-54HL4R-V, Sungrow SG10RS-ADA and S100 Single-phase Smart Energy Meter. SE Melbourne

    • jase7777 on 09/07/2024 - 09:06

      Which company is this?

  • sakurashu on 08/07/2024 - 14:50

    Are any of those good options? Single phase should be in bold there

    E.g. for Victoria:
    "Single phase: 10 kW inverter limit, 5 kW export limit. Three phase: 30 kW inverter limit, 15 kW export limit."

    So any values over 10kW basically useless to you and anywhere between 5-10kW is only useful for if you are using that power (obviously in a pre-battery scenario) unless I've misunderstood. Happy for anyone to correct me as we are also on single phase

    • surg3on on 08/07/2024 - 15:42
      +1

      Solar panels never really generate their rated output. 11kw on a 10kw inverter are almost never going to hit that 10kw limit. Especially as OP says they are going to be facing in two different directions.

    • Mrgreenz on 08/07/2024 - 19:15
      +1

      Consider 2 systems next door to each other

      10kW panel + 10kW inverter

      12kw panel + 10kW inverter

      On a autums day midday the sun peaks at a angle that will provide 11kw solar of power to the 12kW panel system, which the inverter will throttle to 10kW.

      The 10kW panel system has 10/12 = 83% as much panel area as the 12kW panel system. So will recieve 11kw x 83% = 9.16kW power amd not limit the inverter.

      Oversizing of panels vs inverter is very common, effevtively hitting the peak earlier, and holding the peak for longer.

      • sakurashu on 09/07/2024 - 13:29

        Thanks for the clear example! So calculate average sun coverage over the day based on positioning and then oversize by that percentage to maximise inverter usage?

        • Mrgreenz on 09/07/2024 - 15:39

          I believe there can be limitations with oversizing. In WA lots of systems are oversized by 33% i.e 6.6kw with a 5kW inverter.

          I believe the 33% is set by the grid operator, inverters probably have limkts too.

          Generally I think you would figure out viable roofspace and max suitable system size and then just put panels in the best spots till you hit the target system size or run out of roof.

          Theres a website called PVoutput that is quite interesting. A mass collection of solar inverter outputs from across the world.

  • surg3on on 08/07/2024 - 15:39

    Quote 3 inverter includes a consumption/generation tracking app. I've found those to be EXTREMELY useful. Make sure the installation sets it up right.

    Edit: Drop the optimisers and put the savings into getting it cleaned every couple years.

  • imme1386 on 09/07/2024 - 00:30

    what do you run that uses 10.7kwh during the day? if you had batteries i could see you utilizing half that power for the night time but without the batteries this seems like overkill for 12hrs of use.

    • 42 on 09/07/2024 - 06:17

      Google why it need a bigger system than you think you need. Eg allows you to run multiple appliances at once and allows decent output in less ideal sunlight

  • forkus on 09/07/2024 - 10:23

    All of these components appear to be the bottom of the barrel type gear.
    SolarEdge is the only mid to high tier item on any of the quotes with Growatt normally a very budget entry system.
    Entry system in my mind these days is Growatt Inverter with Risen, Canadian, Jinko, Trina or Seraphim panel. Ideally, I would be pushing for Sungrow Inverter though.

    I would be more concerned about the installer though.
    Are they a sales company?
    Is the person providing the quote the same person getting up on the roof?
    Have they come to your place to provide the quote or done online only?
    How long has the company been around? Look up the ABN and see how long its been registered.
    Do they advertise on TV, Use ex sports celebrities or door knock? If so, run away, very very very far away.

    Couple of things I normally tell friends:
    Look to oversize up to 133% of the Inverter capacity.
    Do not focus on Feed in Tariff as the value component of your system, if you do, you will have buyers remorse. FiTs keep changing and not for the better.
    Batteries ROI doesnt make sense at the moment unless you need backup power or really need it during the night. Normally tell people to go bigger solar system instead.

    • jase7777 on 09/07/2024 - 11:50

      Thanks mate. Appreciate it. Really good points to consider.

  • luckbox on 09/07/2024 - 15:34
    +1

    I'm in Sydney and can DM you my installer details. Your quotes seem out of whack esp with the choice of inverters.

    I got 10.5kw Longi panels with Fronius inverter for just under $10k.

    I got other quote for Trina panels with Sungrow inverter for $7.5k with another installer.

    From my research I would go with Fronius or Sungrow as the leaders for their price points.

  • mikcohen on 18/07/2024 - 09:37

    I think you made a good decision to go with Jinko and Sungrow. Those are the most popular brands in Australia right now. AIKO is good if you have a lot of shading. SolarEdge is good for data nerds and makes the battery addition very simple later. It's also the best option if you plan to add more panels later.

    You can compare prices using this tool if you're interested and you don't need to give up your personal information.
    https://windpower.com.au/solarquotes

  • maddykartik on 24/07/2024 - 13:24

    Aiko Neostar panels are newest to AU market. They have been in business from 2009.
    Neostar 2P/ 2S /2S+ are the latest panels with highest efficiency 24%+ that are available on the market.
    + the fact that all are ABC type (back contact), having an aesthetic full black appearance.
    Recipients of 2023 Red Dot and 2023 Intersolar awards for the above panels.

    They tout to be smart and possess superior shade optimization.
    Please check youtube videos from that company on it.

    I would prefer Aiko 2S/2S+ (Mono/Dual glass of same panel) with Sungrow inverters - the same that I am getting for my house in Sydney.

    Not many players know about Aiko 'yet'.
    They will become mainstream premium brand in 6 months - 1 yr.

    Note:
    I am not affiliated to Aiko / Sungrow.

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