Diesel Vs Electric - Help Me Decide - Toyota Hiace Vs LDV eDeliver7

Picking up a new van at the end of the year to do some extra work on the side, and also to use when I go on roadtrips/camping as I'm giving up the 4x4 (don't drive on any difficult tracks though, mainly just poor dirt roads to the campsites).

I've test driven both and enjoy both of them in their own way. But it's kind of like comparing apples and oranges with a diesel pot vs an EV.

Would love an EV just for the fact of never having to pay for fuel again and using solar during the day to recharge. The range however isn't super great as expected, which means extra planning for charging stops when going on roadtrips (say every 250kms). I can usually do 500km driving in one stint quite comfortably without needing a rest stop so I do wonder if this will eventually get annoying if I have to stop every so often to recharge. Not sure what depreciation will be like with an EV once more people start to adopt them and we see more models introduced. Being an LDV I can't imagine it holding it's value either, as opposed to say the Ford Transit Custom EV for example.

I quite like the new Hiace and like the cabin better. Would also be getting a manual transmission too. I'm also fond of my diesel engines but would like to have that feeling of never having to step into a petrol station again or be at the mercy of rising fuel prices. Of course the diesel pot offers much better range so good for long roadtrips, but it also means the ongoing added and higher cost of fuel.

Seeing as both vans are around 60K driveway, if I get the diesel then I have to cop ongoing fuel costs vs cheaper electricity rates/solar to charge the vehicle. The Hiace has good resale value, but will that matter in say 20 years time when ICE vehicles are a dying breed?

Would love to hear your thoughts, especially if you've driven both for work and play.

Poll Options

  • 24
    Toyota Hiace
  • 8
    LDV eDeliver7

Comments

  • Would also be getting a manual transmission too.

    I doubt that option will be around much longer. Not very popular

    • +1

      Has there been talk of Toyota not offering the manual transmission? Because it's not popular or because the transmission is crap?

      • It's not popular. The manual transmission in the Corolla got axed a few years ago for example

        • +2

          I see it as a feature. Costs less and doubles as an anti-theft device!

          • +1

            @cornflakes: I know people who live in crime-ridden places where youth offenders don't steal manuals because they can't drive them.

          • @cornflakes: After 5 years it might get a better resale value as being more exclusive.

        • +2

          One of the reasons they are dropping ma usl models is that the safety features like AEb and radar cruise control are much esier with an automatic.

          • +2

            @Euphemistic: There are manual cars with those safety features. It's more that passenger car buyers prefer autos.

      • +2

        The HiAce diesel 6-speed manual offers some extra benefits: lower fuel consumption, 400kg more towing capacity. Resale value of the HiAce is far ahead of the LDV.

        • +1

          I thought fuel consumption was more or less the same with the Hiace? Back in the day manual cars were more efficient but I think the auto boxes have caught up now.

          • +1

            @cornflakes: Diesel manual/auto: combined 7.5/8.0; extra urban 6.7/7.3; urban 9.0/9.1
            Possible the 6-speed manual has a different final drive ratio but I can't find this online.

            • +1

              @sumyungguy: Ah it was the urban values that were about the same. That's not bad at all for highway being under 7L. Still remember my little diesel hatchback doing 5L per 100 on the highway. Could do Sydney to Melbourne on a single tank!

      • +1

        Nothing's wrong with manuel , people have become lazy when they drive .

        • +2

          Yes. They are becoming lazy and I'm glad Manuel is doing great.

        • +2

          My daughter got her Ps a few months ago on a Friday arvo. The examiner said she was only the second person that week to do it in a manual. It's a dying art.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ7173XCElc

          • +3

            @fantombloo: I live regional and most of the young drivers (including mine) get manual endorsements. Country kids learn to drive manual paddock bashers from a young age and get the clutch concept quickly from riding dirt bikes with mates, helping out on dual stage clutch tractors etc. The only youth I know that drive autos is purely for bigger burnouts.

  • +1

    Stay away from LDV vans , there spare parts can be a nightmare.A company owns a couple and they get them serviced at a mates mechanical shop, one stayed in there on a hoist for over 6 months because they changed the gearbox slightly, he still had to make up stuff to work…

    Anyway Goodluck.

    • +3

      Thanks. Yeah I've read about issues with the Deliver9 vans, and not having spare parts available. So even though it's fixed under warranty you can be without a van if it's sitting there waiting to be repaired.

    • +1

      Less to go wrong with an EV.

      • +1

        But according to ozbargain nothing goes wrong with a Toyota. So there is that as well.

        • "Less to go wrong with an EV."
          "nothing goes wrong with a Toyota"
          Toyota EV then?
          .

          • @Nugs: If toyota would actually commit to EVs it would be a good thing.

  • +2

    How often do you travel those long distances? Every weekend could get a bit old, but if its only every month or two, its probably not so much of an issue.

    Friend who has a tesla often chooses 'top up' charges for 10-15 minutes when its convenient rather than empty to full for an hour. She saves full charge for the destination charge when theres plenty of time.

    How long do you plan on keeping it?

    • +1

      Not often. Maybe once or twice a month. I can definitely see it as a chore if it was often.

      Planning to keep it for 10 years maybe? Although I'd consider selling it like 6 months before the 5 year warranty runs out as that would help with resale.

      • The longer you plan to keep it the more I'd lean toward EV. While diesel will be around for a while yet, oil prices are only set to rise and charge network will only improve. There should be a good market for used EVs in 5y.

  • +1

    If it was going for low 40's i'd say go for the e deliver, at that price i'd say it's still one for the hiace.

    • Yeah you have a good point. I am leaning more towards the Hiace now just knowing it's Japanese made and Toyotas having better resale value.

  • -2

    "and also to use when I go on roadtrips/camping"

    In an EV?
    Where are you camping, the local sports oval? :)

    • State forests usually. Anyone with a car can access most dirt roads there, maybe some fire trails.

      I don't see why an EV couldn't do it, it's just a powertrain. Drive line and suspension ain't any different.

      Should start calling you Scomo.

      • Depends on how far you need to drive I guess.

      • +1

        With a 318km range when new and likely no charging stations at your camp site your furthest destination may have to be 150km away, reducing incrementally over time. This is one of the numerous reasons you likely won't choose the LDV.

        • Highway range is likely to be shorter than quoted range. Afterall, a van isnt very aerodynamic and travelling over 80km/h really gets into aero drag becoming an issue.

          Using more sparks at highway speeds is not properly recognised because we are used to using less fuel on highway travels. Just shows how ridiculously inefficient ICE vehicles are around town that they are seen to be more efficient when there is massive amounts of aero drag.

          • +1

            @Euphemistic: Yeah, the extra range from city driving with EVs comes from regeneration, no? So a lot of start stop helps.

            Ain't no regeneration when you're plodding along on the highway. Just gotta hope for a tailwind lol.

            • @cornflakes: Not just from regen. You also use virtually nothing when stopped and acceleration is a lot more energy efficient with an electric motor.

              Oh, and before you start thinking that you'll be camping so can solar charge during your stay, a van would probably fit around 2-3kw of solar panels. So if you're battery is 80kwh you'll need 30-40 hours of full sunlight to fill it up.

              • @Euphemistic: I think idling fuel consumption is minuscule anyway. I often let my car idle for an hour when camping to let the alternator recharge the starter battery and also my lithium battery. I've calculated the consumption before, can't remember what it was but remember it being insignificant. Although if you're stuck driving every day in peak hour traffic it probably does add up.

                Wouldn't be caught using the start-stop option though. I've always found it frustrating.

                • @cornflakes: Idling consumption is only 'miniscule' because you are used to it being part of the bigger picture. Sure, it doesnt cost much, but it adds to the inefficincy.

                  I hope for your neighbours sake that you werent idling near other campers. Besides, if you just want to charge a battery youre better off going for a short drive, it ups the amps.

                  • +1

                    @Euphemistic: I'm not that much of a d to be idling next to neighbours. I usually camp where there's no one anyway. Diesel idling does stink though.

                    I've a big 150A alternator and a big 6cyl pot so it spits out enough juice when idling. I can monitor my values and the amps it pumps out is no less than when driving on the highway.

        • I mean the aim would be to find a charging station on the highway somewhere not far from where to camp. But yes it does mean that you're limited to say ~150km from the charging point as you need to make sure to have enough charge to get back to charge it again to go home. You're right that I won't choose the LDV, I think having to stop multiple times a trip to charge would be annoying, especially those days when you just want to get on the road and drive.

          The Toyota is the way to go and all the comments here have confirmed my suspicion. Yes I'll be paying for fuel, but over 5-10 years the Hiace will hold it's resale value better which would eliminate any fuel savings from the EV. Also, sitting around for 30 mins whilst waiting for the van to charge is an expense in itself as your time has a cost value too.

          The question now in the OzBargain spirit is to find out what drive away prices I can expect to get from the dealer.

          • +1

            @cornflakes: At around 60K the Rav4 Cruiser hybrid might also be an option. We get around 800K from a 50lt tank.

            • +1

              @EightImmortals: I think OP needs load carrying capacity for a lucrative side hustle

            • @EightImmortals: Yeah they're a lovely car. Are there still crazy wait times on them? I remember hearing 6-12 months for delivery time during covid when people were buying them.

              Unfortunately I need the space for side gigs so the van it is. Plus being exempt from FBT for a commercial vehicle.

          • @cornflakes:

            Also, sitting around for 30 mins whilst waiting for the van to charge is an expense in itself as your time has a cost value too.

            Just depends on your travelling philosophy. Flat out to destination, or enjoying the journey. Time poor obviously doesnt lend itself to smelling the roses.

            Give it a few more years and vans should be getting decent range. At present they are mostly built for city bound fleets running deliveries.

            • @Euphemistic: Totally something to be mindful of. The thing is our moods are always different day to day. Some days you have time to stop to smell the roses. Other days you just need to get a move on.

              ICE allows for that flexibility. Whereas with the EV you have no choice but to stop.

              I agree that EVs will get decent range in the years to come with technological improvements. Perhaps that would be a better time to sell the Hiace and get an EV when there are more available.

              • @cornflakes: Saw a YT the other day on solid state betteries which if they could pull it off and they lived up to the hype could be an EV game changer. Bigger charge capacity and much quicker recharge time. Not sure how volatile they are compared to Li batteries.

  • research some vehicle forums to see just how trash the LDVs are

Login or Join to leave a comment