Are you guys excited about laptops with Snapdragon processors currently offered to pre-order at Lenovo.
Snapdragon Laptops Coming Soon
Hoosein 786 on 07/06/2024 - 09:35
Comments
Excited? Yes. However I'm probably not interested in purchasing one unless it's substantially cheaper than a Macbook Air at similar performance level. All the current line ups (MS Surface Pro/Laptop, ThinkPad T14s Gen 6, Yoga Slim 7x, etc) are $2,000+ and if I am spending that much, I want to make sure there's long term OS & BIOS support for that laptop. Which x86_64 still rules.
I'm in pretty much the same boat. I'm interested, but I'm not willing to be a test dummy or pay a premium over a tried and proven MacBook Air. If Lenovo (or similar quality OEM) ends up producing a good device between $1,000-$1,500 then I'd consider it after any initial emulation issues are ironed out.
I've already pre-ordered a Surface Laptop with ARM. I haven't upgraded my laptop in years and this was enough to get me to pull the trigger. Very excited to try it out.
Oh I truly have a pants dance..
“I would like to extend to you, an invitation to the pants party”
No to the Windows Recall Spyware.
Recall is the worse OS "feature" I have ever seen and the fact that it is enabled by default puts the data of millions of people at risk, MS must be forced to disable it or never ship it.
I would love to have it on my work PC - I can see how it can be useful.
It really should be an option that you turn on yourself though.
puts the data of millions of people at risk,
If someone managed to get admin access to your computer to steal the encrypted snapshots, they could easily just install logging software to capture the same info anyway.
Pretty sure I read that its not even behind any admin access. Its just in AppData folder.
@Subere: It is stored in C:\Program Files\WindowsApps which requires admin access. You can try this yourself on your computer now.
There are ways to bypass admin access if someone has access to the computer, but if they already have access to the computer they could install anything anyway.
Clearly MS has work to do to secure it further; I suppose that is why it's still a preview.
Encrypted snapshots were a lie, all the data is stored unencrypted.
If someone managed to get admin access to your computer to steal the encrypted snapshots, they could easily just install logging software to capture the same info anyway.
Recall allows all data from before any compromise to be stolen, which is much worse.
It also allows the stealing of any text in images, websites and programs, even if it was not entered by the user (which makes it much worse than something like a keylogger).Encrypted snapshots were a lie, all the data is stored unencrypted.
On Windows 11 the OS drive is encrypted by default. If someone steals your laptop they wouldn't be able to access your data.
They've announced they are going to encrypt the images and database JIT to protect it while you're logged in.
Recall allows all data from before any compromise to be stolen, which is much worse.
Not all data; three months worth by default.
It also allows the stealing of any text in images, websites and programs, even if it was not entered by the user (which makes it much worse than something like a keylogger).
My point was that if someone had admin access they could install software or malware to capture the same data from that point on.
Whether or not the previous three months data is more sensitive than the next three months would really depend on the individual.
Recall was only in the preview stage when it was announced. Privacy fears were definitely not unfounded, but that's probably why it wasn't an RC or production release. I think MS jumped the gun in announcing it while it was in that stage.
On Windows 11 the OS drive is encrypted by default. If someone steals your laptop they wouldn't be able to access your data.
Drive encryption is not file encryption and will only prevent someone from gaining access on a sleeping, logged out or off device, but only with password protected accounts.
My point was that if someone had admin access they could install software or malware to capture the same data from that point on.
My point is the malware is already on the computer and has made advanced logs of all text on screen via OCR, which could be accessed without even admin access (at least with how they set it up in the preview).
Drive encryption is not file encryption and will only prevent someone from gaining access on a sleeping, logged out or off device,
That is why in my very next line that you didn't quote, I said "… while you're logged in".
but only with password protected accounts.
If someone is running their computer or laptop with no password, I really don't think privacy is on their minds at all.
My point is the malware is already on the computer and has made advanced logs of all text on screen via OCR, which could be accessed without even admin access (at least with how they set it up in the preview).
Keyword there is "preview".
It is not on by default, it is turned on or off during the setup experience, it specifically asks if you want to switch on it.
You can also pause it or switch it off later, very easily.It was on by default, the only changes are because of negative press.
@Namesareapain: Hence it won't be on by default when launched in 2 weeks (feedback matters) :)
I have an app on my Mac that does exactly the same. For a computer that only you have access to and lock it down, it's a life saving feature.
I wonder about third party software compatibility or any other bugs maybe?
2011 is back again in 2024, remember the Motorola Atrix 4G
Problem is the PC market is actually a bit crowded for the profits available, it is basically a commodity. Look at all the PC companies that have come and gone. The chip makers that have come and go. AMD could have gone the way of Cyrix (remember those guys in the 486 days).
I had an Atrix. Not the first or the last of phones which could be slotted into a dock or laptop/tablet chassis. The fingerprint reader on it was great!
Didn't Microsoft already give Windows on ARM a crack and it failed?
I though that was because no one liked the tiles.
Didn't Microsoft already give Windows on ARM a crack and it failed?
It never took off because the processors weren't very powerful and the software hadn't matured.
Things are different now as the processors have caught up, the software has benefited from years of development, and Apple has proven that ARM on a computer can work great.
It's more than just Microsoft this time. Microsoft + Qualcomm have managed to convince all these manufacturers to come onboard. They must be sufficiently confident about this new platform to invest on all these premium products.
What made me really pay attention was Microsoft launching their Surface Laptop 7 with ARM processors only. They announced the Intel-only Surface Laptop 6 (for business) in March then announced the Surface Laptop 7 just two months later.
They must have quite a bit of confidence in the platform for them to release a newer generation ARM-only Surface Laptop 7 so quickly. Everyone expected it to still be called a Surface Laptop 6.
12 models is a drop in the bucket of the PC market.
those chips were massively UNDER POWERED tho, these new arm one's should be great
Looking at all the benchmarks that is definitely not a worry this time around, they appear to have nailed it with Qualcomm.
I am only excited because I have a vested interest in Qualcomm and their stocks
Less looking forward to them in laptops and more hoping we get some nice mini PC's with them
Would these allow them to be smaller?
There is already a Qualcomm ARM developer mini PC, think Mac Mini size.
Can you share a link? I 'd love to see the spec.
@AlanW2: 32GB ram, 512MB SSD. USD $899 ex tax. I've registered for one on the below link.
Info here:
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2024/05/qualcomm-acce…
And…
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/snapdragon-x…
@stoogethomas: Minimum is 16GB of RAM, required by Microsoft to get certified as a Copilot+ PC. Unlikely you'll see any ARM PC with less than this moving forward.
It's not so much that it would allow them to be smaller. It's that arm based devices tend to have extremely good processing for graphics while using a fraction of the power. Think about how powerful your phone is at playing games and what not. The only reason mobiles aren't amazing at gaming is the fact there is no fan for cooling so they over heat easy. Imagine an android box in your home similar to a chrome cast that can play a ton of games, stream films etc.. but use relatively low amount of electricity.
No, there is already tiny PCs.
Seems everyone is heaps keen for ARM. Is this the beginning of the end for x86?
Highly likely given Microsoft doesn't have a single x86 chip in the new Surface consumer lineup and all the other PC makers that are about to launch an extensive range of ARM devices.
Might be a good time for me to learn Linux.
x86-64 completely dominates the PC market and has two massive companies behind it making better and better processors. It is absurd to think that x86-64 is going away anytime soon.
Nokia completely dominated the phone industry at one point.
No one is saying x86 will disappear next year. But it could be the beginning of the end, which could take a decade or more.
x86 is 46 years old this year. We have reached a point where even a 5 year old CPU is powerful enough for many everyday tasks, so nowadays efficiency is the next big hurdle. x86 is CISC which is more complex and power-hungry by nature compared to RISC, so they're at a disadvantage in the efficiency race.
x86 is 46 years old this year.
Good thing that modern PC's use the much newer, memory protected x86-64 and not the original, 16 bit "real mode" version of x86 from 46 years ago.
x86 is CISC which is more complex and power-hungry by nature compared to RISC, so they're at a disadvantage in the efficiency race.
That argument is ridiculously outdated and woefully incorrect.
It dates from a time when x86 CPUs worked directly on x86 ISA instructions with no abstraction and ISAs like ARM had very few instructions, but that was many years ago.
For the last few decades x86-64 and ARM CPUs have used instruction decoders to allow the abstraction of the internal operation of the CPU from the instruction set, with the modern ARM ISA also now having more instructions than some so called "CISC" ISAs!
That means the main difference between them resulting from the ISA is the instruction decoders, which only take up a very small amount of die area and use little power.
Which is the reason that the idea that ARM is somehow massively different and more efficient than x86-64 is wrong, it is also why AMD was able to make both the x86-64 Zen and an unreleased ARM CPU based on the Zen microarchitecture!Which is the reason that the idea that ARM is somehow massively different and more efficient than x86-64 is wrong
So why was there such a big jump in battery life between Intel Macs and Apple Silicon Macs?
Yeah I'm excited but they are so pricey.
The only one with 32Gb ram is a Lenovo one and that's 3000$😭Super excited indeed! And I don't care about the whole Windows on ARM doubts or copilot spyware nonsense because I'll be slapping Linux on it as soon as support it's sorted!!! 🤙
Does Linux have ARM support currently?
Let me check what OS are all your ARM powered routers running… Linux? Wait! What about the base OS of all your ARM based Android phones? Linux? Not to mention all those <Fruit Name>Pi single-board computers are mostly running Linux on ARM. You can even get Linux running on Apple Silicons.
There's no doubt that Linux will be running on Snapdragon X. Qualcomm is merging the drivers to mainline and we should be getting official builts from major distributions soon. There even hardware companies building Linux laptop.
Haha point taken. I look forward to a Linux future.
Many of those Copilot+ PC are releasing tomorrow (18 June 2024). Anyone checking them out in stores?
Mine arrives today via DHL (Surface Laptop). Will give it a spin as soon as it arrives - very excited to see how it performs.
Mine arrived this morning. I've been setting it up… so far it just feels like a normal Surface Laptop.
I'm interested to see what the battery life is like.
The update has just been completed on mine, very interested in the battery life also, will run it through its paces today.
I'm noticing a HUGE improvement when putting it into standby and then back on, very much an instant on experience, including with Windows Hello facial recognition.@SimAus007: Good to hear, but tbh when I first got my Intel Surface Pro 6 it felt what I imagine would be the same way as yours, the screen turns on immediately and before you can hardly react, Windows Hello has signed you in (my SP6 is still pretty fast, but the facial recognition is definitely slower)
Yes, but I'll wait until I know there's no technical issues with it. It'll be great if it's on par with Apple's M3, and hopefully competition will drive prices lower for both manufacturers.