Help Picking out a Home Security Set up

VuLT on 31/05/2024 - 10:33

Hi OzBargain community,

My parents have been spooked after their Ring camera saw someone snooping around their place at 4am in the morning so I've been tasked to investigate a home security set up for them. I thought it'd be as easy as just buying more into the Ring ecosystem but over the past few days I've learnt about PoE, NVRs, 24/7 recording, in-unit process vs cloud processing and I'm sure there's plenty of other things to learn about.

Keen to get some recommendations for an ecosystem to buy into with some of the below requirements:

  • 24/7 recording so they can scrub back and forth if needed
  • People/motion detection with rich notifications that is zone based. They want alerts close to the house but with the 24/7 recording to check the whole camera if needed
  • Ideally would have a combo of standard camera, floodlight camera and maybe a doorbell to replace their current Ring (battery)
  • Happy with a good value for money mid-point, not after the premium nor the dregs
  • Access via an app to check on the cameras whenever + if they get an alert
  • PoE with NVR seems to be the way to go in terms of reliability but are their backups if the the storage device dies?

On the PoE/wired with NVR side I've heard Reolink, Dahua and Eufy thrown around whilst if we want to dive more into the wifi and cloud storage side to stick with a Ring or Arlo

Appreciate any recommendations or guidance you can give!

Electrical & Electronics Security Camera Security System

Comments

  • sumyungguy on 31/05/2024 - 10:50

    Upgrading from event-based recording to CVR is premium for what is effectively a visual deterrent. Are they iOS or Android? If they're iPhone users you may consider cameras that can do Homekit Secure Video, but only if you're interested in reducing costs.

  • boomramada on 31/05/2024 - 10:57
    -1

    I would just add more Ring/Google Nest or something similar with the subscription.

    PoE, NVRs, 24/7 recording are good if you running a business, but Ring/Google is way better on notifications and real object detection. I had Hikvision with NVR, but moved towards Google Nest, can't beat the notifications and real object detection on paid service. Haven't used Reolink, apparently they are good too.

  • Checo on 31/05/2024 - 10:58
    +1

    I’m currently going through this journey myself.

    From the research I’ve done I’ve come to the conclusion of utilising a small form factor PC (HP Elitedesk) and running Blue Iris. This will give you everything you’ve mentioned.

    If you go this route, look into setting up some form of firewall / 2NIC so that the cameras aren’t connected to the internet, but Blue Iris is.

    Get purple WD drives for recording/storage purposes.

    You’ll need to open up the SFF pc and install the additional drive and 2NIC card - pretty straight forward, heaps of videos online detailing this.

    With this set up - cameras are powered by POE, the cables converge back to where your SFF PC is - the POE cables go into a switch (probably want a POE+ switch), this switch is then connected into your second Ethernet port/ 2NIC.

    Regarding cameras, MP count is not what you should care about - look at the sensor size. A 4MP 1/1.8” sensor is a great option. The Dahua 5442 series is excellent but difficult to find in Australia.

    IP cam talk is a good site for research and information, but a lot of people say it’s quite toxic so maybe just browse for info you need.

    Hopefully this helps. There is so much info out there and just when you think you are on the home straight, you’ll find more things to research. Decision fatigue is very real when it comes to this sort of project…

  • OldSchoolHarry on 31/05/2024 - 11:25
    +1

    Reolink has everything you need at a good price point. If you can run cables, PoE beats battery powered any day. Avoid cloud based paid services and opt for local storage.

  • geekcohen on 31/05/2024 - 11:26
    +2

    Remember to get a UPS if you go with an NVR solution or any locally powered solution.

  • rumblytangara on 31/05/2024 - 11:45

    Probably worth mentioning how tech-savvy or okay with fiddling around you are.

    IMO the 'best' system is something DIY based on any stream-capable camera backed onto a controller like BlueIris, all run on a separate untrusted network (i.e. no way will I ever let Dahua devices sit on my internal network and communicate outside to the internet). But do you have the time and energy to do this?

    • PoE with NVR seems to be the way to go in terms of reliability but are their backups if the the storage device dies?

    Backups? Personally I wouldn't bother. If the device dies you know pretty quick, and it's unlikely that you are going to need to go back 3 weeks to review footage. And don't back up to the cloud- your uplinks probably won't handle it, and it'll be a continuous cost. This is simple home security, you're not running an ISO certified business premises.

  • apple2016 on 31/05/2024 - 11:54
    +4

    My parents have been spooked after their Ring camera saw someone snooping around their place at 4am

    The issue is these guys are not going to be detered by cameras. Adding cameras will only ensure that you have proof of 'someone' breaking in to your house. Automatic lights / alarms would be more effective in prevention. But they do have a downside of being trigerred unnecessarily but pets etc.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 31/05/2024 - 12:23
      +1

      I put up 4 solar lights from Amazon around my place for extra light. All my cameras also have inbuilt lights too. The place lights up like a Christmas tree if anyone even drives past lol.

    • eug on 31/05/2024 - 17:21

      Adding cameras will only ensure that you have proof of 'someone' breaking in to your house.

      Quite a few years ago I had an ancient CCTV camera which recorded someone trying to steal my pushbike. It was locked so the guy left. I lodged a police report and supplied the footage and screenshots and thought that was the end of it.

      A few months later I got a call from the police; they said they caught the guy breaking in somewhere else nearby and used my footage as part of their evidence.

      I guess every little bit could help. Or it may not. But at least there'll be a chance the footage could be useful vs having no footage and no idea what happened.

  • JimmyF on 31/05/2024 - 12:15

    Eufy thrown around

    We use Eufy, the battery/motion detection cameras are ok. The app is good and easy to use.

    I would go the Eufy E330 cameras as the main ones as they record 24/7 in key locations and then fill in the other areas with the batteries ones picking up motion.

    Sometimes you just want to be able to look back and see what happened and there wasn't enough movement to trigger a recording.

  • eek on 31/05/2024 - 12:40

    I use the Eufy Homebase 3 with 2TB hard drive and E330 cameras. Also have their doorbell smart video lock thing as well. Loving the combination at the moment. Better than the Ring/Arlo/Samsung combination I was running for the last few years.

  • hothed on 31/05/2024 - 14:05

    Hikvision or Dahua system. Choose a package with cameras and the NVR. Pay for the larger hard drive.
    You can get the cameras that flash with red and blue lights to warn people they're being recorded, if you want a visible deterant.

    The other systems are just toys in comparison.

  • w3dge on 31/05/2024 - 14:43
    +1

    Had a dahua camera blueiris and later frigate based system at my previous house. Camera recording quality was fantastic, even middle of the night. All apps and alerts were painful, frigate was better but maybe blueiris has caught up, but realistically, we ignored alerts as they were so many false positives. Also took heaps of maintenance from me to keep working.

    Have ring cameras now, camera quality is comparatively awful but the app just works and person detection also works great, so we are much happier in general. Best bit, absolutely zero maintenance. I'd do this again unless you are obsessed with image quality.

  • Wiadro on 31/05/2024 - 15:18

    I have a POE Hikvision setup:
    8TB HDD
    8 Channel NVR
    3x 4K Cameras
    1x 180* Camera (4MP each sensor making a 8MP Image)
    I want to add another camera as I'm missing a weird angle on my property.
    However, there's no public access to that area anyway.

    If I had the funds (and my time again), I would've gone a full Ubiquiti system with doorbell and all.

    • godofpizza on 31/05/2024 - 15:29

      is there no way to add a doorbell to your current setup?

      • Wiadro on 31/05/2024 - 15:44

        yes and no, im not bothered to have to run cat6 to the front door due to the minimal clearance with the cladding I have.
        plus the HIKVision doorgbells are all 2mp only
        I'm going to get a Eufy or similar wireless doorbell (once there's a deal)

  • randomusername2017 on 31/05/2024 - 16:12
    +2

    ecosystem to buy into ….

    Moat and drawbridge…good level of security and it'll develop it's own ecosystem free of charge

    • rumblytangara on 31/05/2024 - 16:59

      Hm… that word. I hadn't picked up on it.

      Don't buy an ecosystem- it locks you into one vendor and if they go titsup or EOL the gear (like Unifi did with their older camera system) you're screwed.

      DIY with any decent cameras + Blue Iris proofs you against obsolescence.

  • DannyC on 31/05/2024 - 17:01

    Reolink with ai is my pick with a decent sized DVR. Good pricing, quality picture and hardware and interface I think it pretty good.
    And get a professional to install or if U are a handy person U could do it yourself. Putting the ethernet cabling through the house roofline isn't easy but can be DIY if U have the equipment n the smarts to do so.

  • eug on 31/05/2024 - 17:04
    +3

    It depends on your budget; there are plenty of good ways to do it as you can see above. Yet another method you can consider is UniFi Protect.

    I've used Arlo, Nest, Hikvision with Milestone Xprotect, Avigilon, Frigate, Blue Iris, and now UniFi Protect.

    I find the cloud-based ones have noticeably lower quality as they use a lower bitrate to avoid network congestion and reduce storage requirements on their part. The Hikvision (and Dahua etc) systems with a local NVR can have the highest quality as you can choose from a huge variety of cameras, focal lengths, resolutions, and sensor size.

    For local scrubbing I find Avigilon excellent. I found the UI better than Xprotect, Blue Iris, and Frigate, but notifications are really poor unless you spend big, big bucks.

    Blue Iris can do person detection but I found the UI and remote access rather poor in comparison to the others.

    Xprotect was alright but the UI was clunky.

    Arlo was fine but limited bandwidth meant the image quality wasn't great, and the camera choices were limited. Then they ended their 7 day free cloud storage which made them far less attractive.

    Nest was alright but once again limited bandwidth meant the image quality was average. I had plenty of false triggers from the person detection which made the notification feature useless. The camera selection was limited too.

    Of all the above, I find UniFi Protect has the best user experience. Person detection is pretty reliable for me, the app is quick to load, scrubbing works great, local storage means you can bump up the bitrate, and notifications work. It also links with Home Assistant for more advanced automations.

    The disadvantages are that you're stuck with their cameras and doorbells and don't have realtime cloud backup, but in return you do get ease of use. Fortunately their cameras aren't extremely overpriced compared to e.g. Avigilon. You can back up events that you select to Google Drive/OneDrive through the UI.

    I have mine set up so if a person is spotted outside, Home Assistant will immediately turn up the outside lights and announce it on the Google Home screens indoors and display a live feed. A voice alert also appears on my phone along with a popup where I can select "Unlock Door" or "Sound Alarm".

  • BatsRule on 01/06/2024 - 19:26

    DO NOT GET SWANN or jaycar ones.
    if you need storage for files, photos etc.. you could look into Synology with nvr or just Synology nvr's

  • Roney on 01/06/2024 - 20:04

    Do Arlo, Reolink, Eufy, Hikvision, dahua and the like have undisclosed links to external source? Is that the reason the Parliament got rid of cameras?
    https://community.anker.com/t/do-eufy-cams-send-data-back-to…

    • eug on 01/06/2024 - 20:17

      Nothing in that thread is of much concern; using multiple DNS servers around the world is not unusual.

      • rumblytangara on 01/06/2024 - 21:15

        Agreed, that thread is mostly pointless. But there have been major security concerns with a whole slew of manufacturers, and iirc Hikvision and Dahua have been banned from US government sites 5+ years ago.

        I regard pretty much all cameras as something to be kept outside of a trusted network, or blocked off from internet connectivity.

        • eug on 01/06/2024 - 21:40
          +1

          and iirc Hikvision and Dahua have been banned from US government sites 5+ years ago.

          I'm sure we all know how afraid the US is of the Chinese. A product or service can have literally zero issues but the mere idea that the Chinese government could have forced the companies involved to install a backdoor or collect "information" is enough to scare the US. Conveniently a lot of the decisions they make will greatly financially benefit many US companies.

          I personally have no concerns over using Hikvision or Dahua cameras at home and at work as I'm 100% certain that the Chinese government has absolutely zero interest in me and I don't work at a military base. As you say, the CCTV VLAN should have no internet access anyway. :)

          The Eufy dramas a while back seemed a little sensationalised too.

          • rumblytangara on 01/06/2024 - 21:59

            @eug: I regard all cameras as untrustworthy, whether by design or by lazy development. Hikvision had hardcoded backdoors when I first started using them.

            I have Hikvision cameras- great image quality, vastly better value for money than something like Axis. Just don't connect any of them to the internet.

            My home is also of zero interest to anyone outside, but neither do I want any of my equipment to be part of a commercially oriented botnet (which imo is a far more likely outcome than someone wanting to perv on me walking around without pants on).

            • eug on 01/06/2024 - 22:55
              +1

              @rumblytangara:

              Hikvision had hardcoded backdoors for a while.

              There's a big difference between poor programming resulting in a vuln, and a backdoor that was deliberately coded in.

              I presume you're referring to what happened in 2017 when someone on ipcamtalk claimed a backdoor had been found in many Hikvision cameras.

              ICS-CERT published an advisory on it. It was clearly sloppy programming rather than a deliberately-planted backdoor.

              Of course that wouldn't be as sensational as calling it a backdoor so it's no surprise that the poster called it a backdoor before agreeing a week later that it is more accurately a privilege-escalating vulnerability.

              For the exploit to work the camera has to be port-forwarded to the open internet which we all know is a big no-no. That should be considered an improper installation - if it was set up correctly behind a DVR or on a VLAN, the vulnerability would not be exploitable remotely anyway.

              There are many parts of the internet that are biased against any Chinese products so will take any chance they get to twist facts to put them in the worst light possible, even if it's misleading.

              It's interesting to note that just a year later, about 400 models of Axis network cameras had a string of vulnerabilities that would allow an attacker to execute shell commands as root allowing them to fully control the camera… but nobody talks about it.

              US company does sloppy programming = oopsie
              Chinese company does sloppy programming = Chinese government installed a backdoor to spy on you

              My home is also of zero interest to anyone outside, but neither do I want any of my equipment to be part of a botnet (which imo is a far more likely outcome than someone wanting to perv on me walking around without pants on).

              I agree; proper camera and network configuration is important. Fortunately the average non-enthusiast wired CCTV camera setup involves plugging cameras directly into the ports on the back of a hardware DVR so they would be isolated from the internet by default. It's just the directly portforwarded cameras installed by non-IT-trained installers that would be more susceptible to being exploited.

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