Advice on a Desktop Build - Budget < $5,000

toecutter69 on 12/05/2024 - 17:36
Last edited 13/05/2024 - 14:45 by 1 other user

My desktop finally died after 15yrs of service and many iterations of parts. Decided time for a full re-build.
Have a strong preference for putting responsibility of the build onto a reputable shop.

Really looking for a builder that offers good value, perhaps through volume discounts.

Primary purpose is for work - high-end requirements for mapping software that involves training machine learning models and 3D video exporting. Not a big gamer, but will definitely be buying GTA 6.

High level requirements:
* CPU - minimum of 10 cores, ideally more. Leaning to i7 or i9 for productivity tasks
* GPU - NVIDA - ideally 16GB. CUDA score > 6 - RTX 4060 and 4070 look ok?
* Storage - 1x 1TB drive
* On board wi-fi/ethernet
* Currently driving an ultrawide, but likely to switch to 2x 4k screens in future (out of scope for this build)
* Have put little thought into PSU, case, cooling, etc.

Budget is still undecided. Less than $5k as a starting point?

Happy to hear any recommendations to steer me, but really after some advice on where I should be asking some quotes/advice from to build me an optimal rig? I see some offer good deals on prebuilts with some flexibility to adapt components that I have subscribed to.

Computing Computer Desktop Computer

Comments

  • joka on 12/05/2024 - 18:49
    +2

    And here I am wondering if you were going to build a town house or a freestanding dwelling as I clicked the post.

  • scrimshaw on 12/05/2024 - 18:58
    +2

    If you don't need one immediate, I'd be waiting to see what the new AMD processors bring, they are going to be announced at Computex (4th June).

  • mrkorrupt on 12/05/2024 - 19:04
    -4

    Get an I9

    • OMGJL on 12/05/2024 - 21:34
      +2

      i call bs. i9 is on a huge drama right now. shitty advice.

  • Caped Baldy on 12/05/2024 - 21:41

    Intel aren't the most power and heat efficient and isn't the easy best choice these days. If you have a spare decent GPU, you should probably keep using for a while. I'm expecting the requirements for GTA6 to be pretty beefy. I think the 5000 series are being announced later this year too.

    • toecutter69 on 12/05/2024 - 22:07

      1060 card, was a weakpoint in my last setup. The 4 series should be quite an upgrade for me, I don’t need cutting edge for games, but the cuda score is more important.

      I am fine with AMD, albeit not that familiar with the models. Will do some reading on what compares to current i9 chip. Thanks

  • azndraon on 12/05/2024 - 22:50
    +1

    do you need this pc now??? you could wait a few months for the new architecture releases, then prices of other cpus will go down

  • OMGJL on 12/05/2024 - 23:07
    +4

    5000 is a HUGE budget, depends on what you need you won't need to spend nearly as much.

    your starting point is still somewhat vague, I won't go into too much details yet, let's get some basics going before we can make a detailed list.

    For CPU, your choice is either Intel or AMD. Intel high ends (i9, i7) suffer from stability issues recently, Intel have put out power limiter BIOS to resolve the issue, but now their performance is no longer superior than AMD….

    …. and intel have efficient core/performance core, so they can have scheduling issue depends on the task. The i7 or i9 only have 8 Actual cores, the rest are Efficient Cores (I call them doggy cores), those are great for tasks that can be well split into pieces without any dependency on each other, but E core sucks on liner, continuous task where calculation from later are dependent on previous calculations… AMD on the other hand have straight Cores (they also have scheduling issue on Ryzen 9 x3D chips, but the side effect is not big at all, because x3D - non x3D have same actual core architecture, whereas E-Core is a trimmed down crappy core)

    I personally use a i7 13700k. I disabled all doggy cores so I am left with 8 actual cores, and I did spend a lot of time tuning the voltage, to balance power vs stability. It's a fun CPU for overclockers, and it perform well after tunning, but it's hot and not beginner friendly….

    You want to choose from below:
    i5 13600k/14600k (6 actual Cores, 8 doggy cores) as a good starting point, then
    AMD 7700x (8 Actual Cores), (skipping i7 13700k/14700k)
    7800x3D (8 Actual Cores —- gaming optimized, bit worse but still good in actual performance), —- best gaming performance, better than anything else
    7900x (12 actual Cores) —- (semi power house)
    7950x (16 Actual Cores) —- (big power house)

    Mobos —- you want to choose after you decide your CPU.

    GPUs —- just about any GPU from today can drive 2 of 4K monitors. but in terms of gaming (I guess you'll game on 1 monitor and idle the other monitor), 4060/4060ti/4070 on 4K is a bit low depends on games. If you want to play new AAA games, maybe 4070 Ti Super be a good starting point. If you want to play MMORPG ish game, where stress is all on CPU, then 4060 is fine.

    Cooling/PSU — decide after you know what CPU/GPU to get

    recently helped a friend made a list for 7800x3d + 4070super , cost is about just less than 3k without any special. Hope this could be a good reference.

    • toecutter69 on 13/05/2024 - 08:24
      +1

      Thanks for the details. CPU needs to be at least 12 cores and from the recent intel drama, I am leaning to AMD. Will do some research on the 7900 series.

      My budget was based upon a whirlpool buying guide for a high end photo editing setup which is somewhat similar to my work (geospatial, 3d, remote sensing processing) and glad to see that I can bring that down quite a bit.

      Eva tech have some nice prebuilts that they stress test, will keep an eye out for deals.

      Was hoping to order this week, but also could wait tit out to a particular release later in year if it brings down prices of lower models/prior generations.

      • OMGJL on 13/05/2024 - 09:26
        +1

        had a quick search. this store is red herring to me too. Reason: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/842653#comment-15199382

        yes, I hate every computer store who use above 6000Mbps RAM on Ryzen 7000s platform.

        I don't have any experience with the software you use at all, so I'll take whatever you say.

        If it's heavily simulation, or loads of data, you might able to benefit from x3D models, otherwise straight up 7900x or 7950x is way to go.

        There's CES coming up shortly and apparently AMD 9000s series will be out soon, judging AMD's track record it is likely going to be expensive as hell and become almost half price half a year or a year later. (especially when they have a upper hand advantage from Intel).

        new NVIDIA card was rumoured to be out end of year too (they only had their super models out not too long ago, which is mid gen refresh, I personally think it's more likely next year some time, but don't take my word without a grain of salt lol)

        seems like we mostly set on CPU choices, happy to make a draft list for you if you like

        • toecutter69 on 14/05/2024 - 20:53

          Your comments have been so useful. Been skimming PLE and Evatech.
          There are 'Workstation' and 'Gaming' categories. Technically, as this is for work, I fall more into the Workstation category and the software appears to work well under both types.

          Currently using the component builder on Evatech to estimate a build price.
          https://evatech.com.au/custom-pc/200100/

          Leaning towards 7900x and a 4070ti.
          Need a 64GB kit, but was hoping to choose a 5600MHz option for this config. I understand anything higher would likely conflict as per your earlier comment and a bit of reading.

          Let me know if any obvious areas that look out of place.
          From here, this gives me an indication of roughly what I need. Will then do some comparing across PLE/Scorptec and others.

          • OMGJL on 14/05/2024 - 21:25

            @toecutter69: all new CPU have SMT and AVX2, you'll be fine either way.
            GPU you want to go either 4070 super, or 4070 ti Super.

            not 4070ti, unless the price is identical to 4070 super (it's like 5% better than 4070 super if at all, so your call)

            with large capacity RAM, it will be dual rank, which is harder to stabilize, you want to consider getting a 8 layer PCB mobo where possible, some Gigabyte Aorus Series are 8 layers.

            RAM— 16G×2, 24G×2 will be single rank. 32G ×2 or 48G × 2 will be dual rank.

            you don't want to get 4 sticks, unless you like to seek trouble.

            if you can get away with 48G, it's less risky. if you need huge capacity, 64g or 96g is the way to go without being too adventurous.

            • toecutter69 on 14/05/2024 - 23:05

              @OMGJL: Needs to be 64gb ram for the workloads I do. Have 32gb on the work laptop and often using page file.

              Did not realise the complexity of ram. Will do some reading up on dual rank. Build is creeping up in price and now hoping to keep it around or below 4k mark.

              • OMGJL on 15/05/2024 - 00:32

                @toecutter69: how? share your list, let's have a look at what went too expensive.

                • toecutter69 on 15/05/2024 - 10:15

                  @OMGJL: Thanks. https://evatech.com.au/custom-pc/200110/
                  Pretty happy with this so far.
                  Your comments on 64GB and Mobo conflicts I still need to dig into.
                  Still not entirely ruling out 48GB. But will definitely use this up on some of the larger jobs I do.

                  • OMGJL on 15/05/2024 - 10:26

                    @toecutter69: not even 3k according to my own calculation:

                    https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/xWQHgB

                    ps. no build cost
                    ps2. no OS
                    ps3. mobo is 8 layer
                    ps4. ram in list is hynix based
                    ps5. I don't have more point but I gotta list the newest gaming console down too.

                    • toecutter69 on 16/05/2024 - 20:45

                      @OMGJL: Thanks again. Won’t be building myself and like what I hear from evatech. Will adjust my order to match your list

                      • OMGJL on 16/05/2024 - 22:05
                        +1

                        @toecutter69: Big stores like Scorptec/CenterCom/MWave etc should all have custom assembly addon (check with them yourself to be 100% sure), will be more transparent than evatech without itemized price or even specific part's model number.

                        • toecutter69 on 28/05/2024 - 19:50

                          @OMGJL: Currently talking to eco tech on a custom build and have this:

                          https://evatech.com.au/custom-pc/200795/

                          Any thoughts on how this is looking and pricepoint? Seems to be fairly ok price compared to pcpart picker

                          • OMGJL on 28/05/2024 - 21:59
                            +1

                            @toecutter69: RAM is a bit crappy (you should look for 6000c30 or 6000c32 where possible) you want to have a better latency ram for gaming (especially competitively)… For your professional workload this is meh but alright.

                            SSD is meh (I'd like something better than that, but it's not crappy you know…)

                            Motherboard is also meh (You want 8 layer PCB, then either go Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite/Pro, or certain AsRock models like B650 Pro RS, B650 Live Mixer, PG Lightning etc)

                            everything else is fine to me.

                            Consider Worse Mobo/RAM/SSD, with labour cost which fair cost should be around $200, and the convenience of getting everything in one shop without needing to hunt around (worth another $100-$150 imo)

                            my list is $3000, their's is $3300, i'd say it's about $120 too expensive ($50 on mobo, $60 on SSD, $10 on RAM)

                            not a big cost difference, but made the build worse.

  • OMGJL on 12/05/2024 - 23:08

    and why do you need the CUDA cores now? seems like you didn't care as much before and used your 1060 till now? didn't upgrade all these years? just FOMO? or what's your actual usage?

    and also, what does CUDA Cores > 6 mean? you can't compare CUDA cores across generations, and CUDA core count is on the thousands or even ten thousands….

    • toecutter69 on 13/05/2024 - 08:15
      +2

      1060 had an ok cuda score, just meant a lot of overnight processing or spinning up a machine on azure. The cuda compute capability is what I was referring to and nvidia make it easy to compare across range with it:
      https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-gpus

  • basketballfreak6 on 13/05/2024 - 09:37

    Just to chime in on top of what @OMGJL has already mentioned, I too vouch for an AMD CPU setup especially with all the issues Intel's having at the moment. Both companies trade blows when it comes to performance (and as mentioned Intel's performing worse now after the updates to remedy the stability issues) but IMHO AMD CPU's are much easier to get the best out of (now that the memory instability/compatibility issues are no longer a thing) due to being much more efficient requiring less power and producing less heat. My 7700X hits 5.1-5.2 GHz all core under stress testing and easily hits the rated 5.5 GHz during gaming with a simple undervolt via Curve Optimiser with a sub $100 air cooler.

    Also as few others suggested it might be worthwhile to wait for AMD's upcoming new release as the new chips are rumoured to see significant performance increase again.

    • bazingaa on 13/05/2024 - 10:22

      sub $100 air cooler.

      AK620? Me and my mate use AK620 for 13900K, works well.

      • basketballfreak6 on 13/05/2024 - 11:32

        The very same! How good is that cooler? I love the checkered pattern look of the cooler as well (I have the fan setup as pull-pull so you could see the face of the cooler).

        • bazingaa on 13/05/2024 - 12:20

          I run it at 288W and pretty good, I believe my friend is using stock 253W. I have Fractal Compact case so can't see inside and can't remember how it looked like when I assembled my PC a while ago :D

    • toecutter69 on 13/05/2024 - 13:00
      +1

      I have only ever had Intel chips, but looks like it might be time to switch teams. Thank's for taking the time to explain your reasoning - looks to match what I am reading in other forums.

      I am not in a rush, but also aware of awaiting the next release is a never-ending game. I see they are due '2nd half of 2024'
      Ideally I need a setup within next couple of months. Will sit on it for a week and ponder/do more reading.

      • basketballfreak6 on 13/05/2024 - 14:34
        +1

        Yea I had Intel before coming back to AMD with their 3000 series. Just thought of it this moment one thing you could potentially do is get your new AMD setup now with a lower end CPU (a 6 core 12 thread 7600/X at ~$300 could be a good choice? Should still be much faster than your old setup) then when AMD comes out with their new lineup later in the year you can get the new CPU? AMD will be supporting the current platform until at least 2025 so with the new CPU you won't have to change motherboards at all but simply swap out just the CPU for an easy upgrade.

  • Dolphins on 14/05/2024 - 21:56

    Hasn't been announced that GTA 6 will come to PC yet (I think there is no chance it won't it might just be a bit after console)

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