Spitfire Emergency Lighting - Intentional Expiry on Product

doobey1231 on 29/04/2024 - 10:35
Last edited 29/04/2024 - 11:01 by 1 other user

Hey all! Wanting to open a discussion on emergency lighting and required fire safety devices in general.

Just got a bill after our annual inspection quoting nearly $1500 in replacement items, several Spitfire lighting modules and a 9v battery in the smoke detector. Naturally I got curious about how these units could cost so much. I got up on a step ladder, too the lighting out to discover the LED module, a transformer of sorts that connects to a battery (specs 1800mah 4.8v - 4x AA sized batteries) simply pos/neg wired up to the transformer with what looks like a run of the mill 12v plug, similar to what you'd see in a 12v electric motor.

I hopped on eBay, found R/C batteries with specs 2400mah 4.8v and grabbed them. Pulled all the batteries from the Spitfires that failed testing (for reference they must last 90 minutes on backup power), cut the plugs on both old batteries and new, swapped the old plugs onto the new batteries and just finished up installing them. I have them all on charge currently and will run the test at the end of the day to check if it's all working as it should, if anything I should exceed the 90 minute requirement by a fair amount given the capacity increase.

This is very anti-consumer practice, the sort of behaviour that other mobs have got into trouble for in the past, it's very blatant here, intentional use of a patented plug to prevent people from swapping out the batteries themselves. Eat your heart out over the plastic bags issue, given these things are a requirement, in my medium sized warehouse I am required to have 20 of these units, I could only imagine this multiplied by even just the warehouses on my street.

Curious on your thoughts about this, also hopefully my info can help someone in the future save a few bucks. I brought our annual inspection bill down from $1500 to $300 because of that.

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  mskeggs on 29/04/2024 - 10:53

  I think it is mainly the 'lazy' tax.
  A lot of sites will be landlords doing the inspection. If they are a corporate, they don't have an easy option to pop down on the weekend, gain access to perform minor works and happily sign off on the modifications.

  All it would take is some lawyer in a head office with zero understanding of electricity to say "but that would invalidate out warranty so if something went wrong we wouldn't be covered".

  As a result the extra $1000 gets paid and next time the lease is up rent increases 0.01% more than it would have.

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    doobey1231 on 29/04/2024 - 11:37

    Yeah 100%, and I think thats how they are getting away with it, any business bigger than ours would just pay the bill and be done with it, the skipper is pretty on top of expenses and the logic sorta came into trumps here, with both of us agreeing that there is no way theres $160 worth of work on each unit, its just lucky the flexibility of my role allows me to do stuff like this. Also FWIW we own the property we are in so that would definitely make a difference too.

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  Stewardo on 29/04/2024 - 10:53

  But how much would parts and labour cost to do the job with warranted genuine parts?
  $1500/20=75 each. Doesn’t sound that excessive.

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    doobey1231 on 29/04/2024 - 11:34

    They weren't quoting to replace all of them, that quote was for 5 units plus a 9v smoke detector battery replacement(surprisingly the cheapest part of the job, even though its in a high reach area with specific equipment needed to access - out of my realm for sure). The way I went about it meant I spent a total of about $90 and an hour of labour which I believe goes just under how much it would cost to replace one single unit through the official avenue.

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      Stewardo on 29/04/2024 - 12:53

      So it’s more like $250 each including parts labour and gst.
      I’m not saying it isn’t expensive, but they are running a business, they would overheads like public liability insurance, driving to site, wages, super, vehicles, equipment tools, petrol, training. back office admin warehousing etc etc.
      Buying parts on eBay and doing it yourself has very different cost base.

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        doobey1231 on 29/04/2024 - 13:02

        Buying parts on eBay and doing it yourself has very different cost base.

        Well yeah thats the entire premise of my post really. But my issue isn't with a business trying to make money, I respect that and will usually employ services to conduct stuff like this, both to keep in line with legal obligations as well as ensuring everything is done properly. If this was a quotation for just a battery replacement I would've gone ahead with the quote. I(and our companies ethos) take particular issue with replacing entire devices just because of a failed back up battery test, which is why we went about it our own way. It just so happens I saved a buttload of money as a result too and figured I would pass along the information.

        I cannot argue the costings of running a fire safety business(although I have worked in control rooms that monitor systems so have a small idea), but I know the general costs of running a business and I am fairly confident they don't need to be charging that sort of money in order to cover costs & maintain a reasonable profit too.

        Having said all that, this was not an attempt to throw shade on the business in question, I am not up in arms about it either. Just curious on others opinions on it, if anyone has thought the same thing and just give a pointer or two on how to reduce waste and costings.

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  Jimothy Wongingtons on 29/04/2024 - 10:54

  initial thoughts:

  1. does this have any effect on your insurance? I mean, theres always been those who play the 'non-compliant' card for imports that dont meet (AU) standards (Electrical, safety etc) - I guess technically it is a SELV install..so it is fair game for DIY.

  2. Not saying the bill is fair, but isnt it just a tax write-off anyway? For peace of mind I just pay to get it done, maybe im a sucker.

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    doobey1231 on 29/04/2024 - 11:33

    I mean a tax write off still means you are spending money, in my business we have enough tax exposure that things like this are just unnecessary, and we try to pride ourselves in minimizing the detrimental effect our business has on the environment so doing the battery replacement sorta runs in line with our ethos..

    I did check with insurance and it seems like its okay like you said SELV, and technically changing a battery on an appliance isnt really electrical works, in technicality my plug switch over could be considered hobbyist level stuff, just done on my work bench.

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  bobbified on 29/04/2024 - 10:57

  I'm not trying to defend the supplier/manufacturer, but I think the product itself is often cheap to manufacture but the high costs reflect the amount it takes to get something initially certified for a specific use that's regulated by whatever authority. Then there's also the costs of ongoing compliance etc. That all gets factored into the pricing.

  The first example that comes to mind is the way motorcycle helmets were sold here before. Helmets here were always significantly more than the overseas version because Australia had it's own compliance standard that helmets had to meet before being allowed to be sold here. That testing was very very expensive. (The authorities have since opened it up to allow some overseas standards and the prices have dropped significantly).

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    doobey1231 on 29/04/2024 - 11:40

    Yeah 100% agree with you there, the certification would be where the money is at, which is a shame cause they are a solid, well made unit. Just a shame all that work into the device and they are choosing a full replacement over just a battery replacement, there wouldn't be much profit once you factor in the transformer and LED, just seems wasteful.

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  apsilon on 29/04/2024 - 12:49

  I hope both battery packs are the same type to ensure no charging issue. As for the plug, it's probably just a type you don't recognise. Very unlikely it's anything proprietary.

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    doobey1231 on 29/04/2024 - 12:53

    It is at bare minimum a non standardized plug, at most its proprietary, I am sure they wouldn't invest the money into making it proprietary but it best describes what I was dealing with.. I did lots of research before I went ahead with this swap over, the only difference in product is its capacity, even the battery chemistry is the same (NiMH), but appreciate your concern for a fellow ozb stranger all the same! :)

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  ocular on 01/05/2024 - 16:29

  From memory the first initial test for newly installed emergency light is 120 mins then subsequently 90 mins, but you have to pay more big bucks to get access to all these details via Australian Standards. Mine wanted $200 per portable extinguisher, got them online and delivered onsite with the necessary tag and hung them myself for $70 each.

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  Elumen Official on 06/06/2024 - 18:54

  Yeah a lot of Spitfires get thrown away when it's only the battery that fails. Our emergency lights come with a modular design that makes it easy to switch out your battery and the whole thing comes with a 5 year warranty. As a bonus they test themselves every 6 months :)

  We're based in Sydney, check out our products!