I am a qualified accountant, not happy with my job profile, and I am looking to change career and want to become a clinical psychologist. I have a keen interest in human behaviour and psychology.
I have done some research online, but want to know how hard it is and how long does it take?
Is it easy to get internship?
After I get all my certifications, I wish to practice privately.
Any other suggestions are also welcome.
If you are wanting to become a clinical psychologist, it will take you 6 years of full-time study (e.g., BPsych Hons, Master of Clin Psych) and a further 2 years (minimum 88-weeks) of paid work to get your clinical endorsement (to get the "clinical" in "clinical psychologist" - it's called the clinical psychology registrar program). The programs will cost you about >$100,000, and that's if you do well enough to get a spot in both the honours program and a clinical psychology program. The postgrad clinical program is very competitive, so needless to say that the "Ps get degrees" Aussie tertiary slogan will not apply. If this isn't sitting well but you do really want to do some form of counselling, consider social work (which will still require an undergrad) or general counselling degrees that can get you accredited (albeit more limited career prospects in my view).
Thanks for the insights.
Wife is in Masters of clinical psych. If you can maintain a distinction GPA across all your years of study you might get in to a masters program somewhere in Australia. Ideally you'll want a HD GPA if you are in a capital city and want in to one of the big city universities, otherwise you'll probably have to move for your masters.
Thanks a lot!
Losing another to the dark side. Get ready for your life to fall apart, while you try and help others.
As others have pointed out the ROI on this switch is not worth it. No or low pay for next 5-6 years is going to put you a long way behind. You just won't make up the difference even if getting paid more. If you were going to study to increase pay then forget about a switch and look to study part-time in your current field to get a better/higher paying job.
If you are hell bent on wanting to help people mentally and interested in human behavior you could look into pivoting into Human Resources type roles that might scratch that itch and can pay reasonably well. Large organisations are investing more into the mental health side, domestic violence and simlar.
Another option would be councilor. Won't pay as well as but pretty close considering the much lower requirements to entry. If you enjoy it then you can always make the bigger commitment to studying psych.
Final option that would be to pivot into financial planner/advisor. Money issues and planning is mostly a mental/psychological challenge. Leverage your accounting skills base to help people with their money issues.
Great advice.
An opinion from a tech perspective - Psychologists are ridiculously expensive as you will be well aware. It costs upwards of $600 for an adult to just get a diagnosis for suspected ADHD for example. This cost is a major reason for the mental health crisis nationwide.
AI advancements have already started replacing some jobs (e.g. copywriter). Spaces like psychologists and GPs are primed for disruption in the next few years. Naysayers will yap the usual "I'll never trust an AI vs a real doc..". But statistically, the accuracy/success rate of diagnosis and treatment will soon be higher with an AI. And these are areas that will be hit first purely because of the massive demand. 10 jobs in this field may dwindle to 2.
By the time you are qualified in 5-6 years, market and reward may be very different.
You are probably half correct.
A lot of mental health diagnosis is expensive because it is always a nebulous moving target requiring constant careful consideration of many factors that themselves change. ADHD takes a long time to diagnose because no one really knows what it is in a quick and straightforward way. I don't see how we can, any time soon, have it done by AI when we don't know what to feed the AI.
But on the other hand, much of the active ingredient in talk therapy is the connection and non-judgemental sounding board that some people lack in their lives. I have heard of research showing that people can connect and feel heard, even by simple AI. So AI could probably do that cheaper than a psych.
The mental health field is very topsy turvy where a lot of psychs spend too much time with mild cases and not enough time with severe cases. But in their defense, there is no good public system structure for dealing with complicated cases, and we cant expect psychs to look after those cases individually, hence they have a lot of mild cases or risk burnout.
AI could potentially take a lot of the mild cases and help the system refocus and restructure with a focus on the more severe cases.
I have a slightly different question, would AI be able to take responsibility?
One of the reasons why ADHD diagnosis is expensive is because that diagnosis is needed to access further supports. Diagnosis of ADHD or ASD often involves engaging with psychiatrists or a paedietrician and that is needed for the diagnosis to be recognised (which opens another can of worm of why can't a psychologist diagnosis and have that recongised). Not to mention, the medications used for treatment can be abused (i.e. ADHD and stimulants, PTSD and ketamine etc etc).
So can an AI be held accountable would be the question that stems from that.
Talk therapy and its effectiveness, I think there are morally grey areas that an AI cannot really work on. Don't get me wrong, I am all for the AI and new technology. I am geuninely hopeful that we find biomarker for depression and anxiety related disorders for example which will allow diagnosis to be based on something that's more solid than a criterion. That said, what next? Whether someone is experiencing distress doesn't give us anything beyond, they are distressed.
Frankly speaking, I genuinely genuinely am rooting for team technology and AI. Ultimately, I wish the field of psychology becomes as dated as typists. I personally don't see it happening any time soon. There is always a trade off somewhere when you do probabilities. If you make the diagnostic tool too sensitive, then it can lead to false positive so on and so forth.
Yeah you are right. The need for someone to take responsibility for the diagnosis is a big part of the challenge. In theory, anyone can diagnose mental health issues, they just have to be able to back it up to a standard that others in the field would respect. So psychologists, GPs, counsellors, social workers, mental health nurses can all diagnose as long as they can show they have the experience and understanding (formal training obviously matters) to the level the field accepts.
Psychiatrists and paedietricians might not accept someone else's diagnosis because they are the ones giving the meds— no one else. So they need to back up their decisions.
I agree that AI will have limitations in talk therapy. But a lot of people benefit greatly from a simple sounding board and some general psych education pointers. It could be a first step before more complex treatment is considered.
The problem that a lot of psychologists face is that part about "to a standard that others in the field would respect", to which I say, I doubt it's a standard issue, rather, the whole medical system automatically values medical doctors' diagnosis more (see NDIS and other insurance schemes, government funding etc).
That sentence there I am sure has multiple cans of worms that can take aeons to discuss. It's a minefield of ethical dillemas.
@iridiumstem: Yeah, the NDIS as a rule will only take diagnosis from a clin psych or psychiatrist when potentially an individual general psych, neuropsych or MH nurse may have a better grasp on some diagnoses. A very messy field.
@crazycalm1991: Very messy indeed. It doesn't help that everyone who talks about this type of matter has some form of bias (myself included for obvious reasons).
Unfortunately credentials override a lot of things, and psychiatrists see a patient for far shorter than a psychologist.
I still think my father's psychiatrist is a moron, who gave him the advice of "be true to your emotions" and diagnosed him with panic disorder when his presentations lean towards cPTSD if you look at his history and his symptoms. That's my whinge for the evening.
While responsibility has to be figured out, I think market forces while drive adoption regardless. A patient needing help who otherwise can't afford it, especially ongoing (most of the population) will still go for the AI once accuracy rates move ahead of most human professionals.
Unfortunate thing is, that's likely not going to be how the market would work. Responsibility is important because, someone somewhere has to call, this will be beneficial (and is the option that provides the most value) in order for supports to be provided.
Dodo bird verdict is an interesting concept in psychotherapy and its implications on social policies.
Medicare rebate is peanuts compared to what a psychologist needs to have a financially viable business (bulk billing psychologists are almost non-existent for that reason especially in the capital areas), but without even that, it would be more expensive.
Who's going to foot the bill for the system required to have AIs doing the counselling work?
Great thought!
My wife is a highly regarded Clinical Psychologists, she spent close to 9 years in training and now hates it.
It's a VERY VERY demanding job that is under regarded by most people and not as respected as Psychiatrists even though they do 90% of the work.
We own a practice and she trains a lot of 4+2s which is the path you are looking at going down.
I highly highly suggest you speak to a few Psychologists about the job before you go down this path.
It seems like while the education is great at getting people what they need to Clinical do the job, it doesn't explain the stress/workload and real world requirements of working in the field.
We desperately need more psychologists, so good on you for giving it a go! However please don't be one of the many burn outs because this job is more human behavior and psychology. It never ends, you will face people that trust a untrained councilor more that you daily and have to constantly defend your ability to do your job.
absolutely agree it's a huge cognitive and emotional burden and you need to be well adjusted and have passion for it to not burn out. most people cannot do clinical psych especially private practice full time and mix it with academia/ public work
Thanks but do think the pay is high enough for the stress load?
Depends how much you could tolerate.
I've known people who would see 8 clients a day 5 days a week and easily pull 4-6k a week as a private practice contractor. However, people don't realise that time is dedicated after sessions to write case notes, GP letters and referrals so that could easily turn into a 10-12 hour work day depending on how efficient you are. Also when clients cancel, you don't get paid and I've known some psychs who only saw 1-2 clients a day.
People often forget that working with humans can be quite complex. You'll need to be mentally prepared to work with clients who have experienced abuse, self-harm, express suicidal thoughts and worst case scenario clients who die by suicide.
Steelchain makes a valid point that the training pathway is long. You won't see the above returns for years while you are training to be a psychologist. By the time you finish training, priorities could change and you might value worklife balance more than money.
I'm late to the party but I've been a psych for 6 years and currently doing my Clin Psych masters. It seems like a lot of posters have given very insightful comments.
Do you have any other questions about the role/training pathway?
Thank you for the offer, I don't have any other questions at this stage.
No worries all the best
There is this book called So good they can’t ignore you by Cal Newport. I personally would recommend you read it and make your decision afterwards. It’s really helped me and changed my perspective and life