Hi all, what you guys think? I can get a m2 pro with 8gb ram 512gb SSD for around 1400 bucks second hand.
Or…
Go for a brand new Lenovo or similar windows laptop for about same price?
Reason for going Apple is decent cooling system, quiet, long battery life, reliable and excellent build. Pity only 8gb.
Is there a Windows laptop out there that can compete yet with Mac thermals and battery life yet?
I'd assess what you're using it for and what other devices you have.
If it's going to be your primary computing device and used for anything beyond the very basics, I'd strongly consider spending more for 16gb ram for a Mac.
Yeah, true, just can't afford a new m3 pro with 16gb though, they over 3k for that sweet spot 18gb m3 pro. I'll keep trawling for s second hand 16gb mbpro m1 or m2
There's a pro m2 pro? I think it's just the 8gb macbook pro m2. Im thinking the same. I've had 3 windows laptops now and they are awful with battery and run really hot and loud. Even though 8gb isn't ideal, must still be better than most Windows laptops. At least in struggling to find a decent similar Windows laptop
There's the MacBook Pro with M2, then the MacBook Pro with M2 Pro, and MacBook Pro with M2 Max. I think the M2 Pro starts with 16GB of ram so you'd have to be talking about the MacBook Pro with M2. If you can find the M2 Pro (or even Max) for just a little more money, like some random deal, then it's worth the upgrade. Even ignoring the processor it is a significantly better machine than the MacBook Pro with M2, and the Pro M2 is already a great machine.
Right, good to know, i didn't know they had those variants in the m2. This must be the macbook pro with m2 yes
It helps to think of the standard "MacBook Pro" as more of a "MacBook", if you're familiar with the older Intel model structure. Only it's better than almost all previous Intel MacBook Pros, so it does really qualify for the Pro branding. But the standard Pro is basically exactly the same as the Air, just a bit more battery life, bit more screen brightness, and a bit more power because it has active cooling and the Air doesn't. So if you can find an M series Air 8GB 512GB for less then you should definitely consider it.
@AustriaBargain: There are some m1/m2 airs around, but i really like that the pro has the cooling, else i see you can just buy a new m3 air from education store for about $1381 right now. Maybe that's the sweet spot for now.
I kind of have my heart set on a pro because of the cooling etc. I just don't think an air will last with the overheating going on. I also think the mbp m2 is good because of the extra years of software updates, over the m1
Go with whichever OS you prefer. Are software licence fees part of your equation?
I like Windows or Mac, no preference, comfortable with both. I have license for stuff already that can run on either Mac or Windows
It might be worth waiting for Snapdragon X Elite ARM Windows (WindDragon, I just made that up) or M4 if you can wait. The new Snapdragon should provide you with all the things you like about the Mac, (decent cooling system, quiet, long battery life, performance per watt) sans the potential build quality and reliability of the individual machines and OS. They will probably come with 16GB as standard though, because that is what machines should come with these days.
Or wait for the M4, which will be slightly rehashed higher clock speed M3 with some added AI features and possibly 12Gb standard. Apple is chasing diminishing returns with higher temperature and throttling, especially in the Air. It is not as much of a problem in the Pro. A four year lead was pretty good though. Buying a Wintel will work for another 8 years, but it's kind of like buying the last Intel Mac, just before the M1 was introduced.
Good point's
Or wait for M6, once ARM based Windows laptops have started putting price pressure on Apple.
Haha, i need one now lol, can always sell it and upgrade later. I'm thinking even an m1 pro, can get one for about 1k. Internet is still saying it's better than a new win laptop.
@grantn: I'd still be using my 8GB M1 Pro if I didn't have the need to leave very resource intensive Adobe apps open for months at a time. I used the 8GB for years and probably could still get away with it if I jut closed things out and restarted every now and then.
Some troubling reports that the Snapdragon X benchmarks are not anywhere near realistic. https://www.semiaccurate.com/2024/04/24/qualcomm-is-cheating….
Would pay for the MBP with M3 pro if you can deal with OSX. Otherwise, get a AMD based laptop.
Amd sounds like the go, i like the idea of the used m2 pro but it's only 8gb and God knows what you getting when you buy second hand. Love apple, its still just so god damn pricey
Depends on how your software run on 8gb Mac.
Nothing crazy to be honest, general computing with the odd bit of software dev learning and maybe a game now and again. My main gripes with all the laptops I've had is the heat, noise and low battery life, can't believe in 2024 they still selling laptops that can't last a day at just general tasks. This is what's pushing me to the Apple. I've watched tons of reviews and even the new intel ultra chips still can't really keep up with the m1 m2.
Macs aren't known for their gaming. Sounds like a AMD based laptop would suit better.
Ryzen runs cooler than Intel. 14th gen Intel (i.e core ultra 155H) are more effecient than 12th and 13th gen, but still not as effecient as the AMD 7 and 8 series.
This may be the answer, ryzen kicks ass, and you right, they much more efficient than the intels
I'll try for a latest gen amd and compare power efficiencies, this might be the way, lenovo have some great amd options and really good prices, also, lenovo is usually very Linux friendly, never had an issue running Linux dual boot with Windows
Checking out the ryzen 8845hs, seems really efficient, it's worth a look
I am yet to see a windows laptop last as long as a Mac. The build quality of a Mac is just so much better which also means they hold their value and last longer.
Currently Apple silicon is better than anything else on the market so I'd go for the Mac.
Yep but good luck fixing it if the SSD dies… or if anything dies.
Also true, i got some electronics experience, is it possible to open it up and put in a new ssd? I'll see if there's a YouTube for that.
Sir, that will be $6000 to fix. Or you could buy a new one for $5999.
Haha, that's why they want to sell you the applecare insurance thing
Barring a failure that would be covered by warranty/ACCC, how likely is SSD failure? A quick google suggests not very high but I am happy to be proven wrong if you have some hard data.
It's not that high, but further increased by the fact that MacBooks with lower amounts of RAM (8GB) swap onto the SSD when they begin to run out, increasing wear on the SSD. Everything fails eventually, and the SSD is normally the first thing to wear out (aside from the battery). You could just be really unlucky, and it fails just after the warranty ends :)
@ldd-mn: Yes, I guess the chance of being really unlucky has a higher cost with a Mac but I personally wouldn't be factoring in the absolute worse case scenario when making this decision.
That is true
Really. What is the life span of a mac? I am genuinely curious. My Lenovo has lasted nearly 10 years and still running every thing smoothly.
I am writing this comment on a 2015 Macbook Pro which other than missing its feet looks basically brand new after a wipe down. This is after taking it around the world twice as well as daily commutes for over 4 years. Everything still works fine and it chugs along for daily use but does struggle for more demanding tasks like Lightroom. Battery life is pretty okay after all this time, not great but not terrible. I get only slightly less battery life as I do on my brand new Lenovo E14 work laptop.
There are three MacBook Air 2011 in my household, all fully functional, one had a battery replaced and another got an SSD upgrade. They're fine for web/email/office productivity/YouTube.
I have an ASUS ROG Ryzen and made the switch to the M3 MBA this week. Like you my subscriptions run on both Windows and Mac. So far it's all been positive, especially when there is no fan noise and can run on the battery all day. The trackpad is excellent, so good that I'm not rushing to get the mouse.
Good to hear, i did consider the m3 air, but heard it gets a bit overheated running a simple game? Can you give it a go? but they must know what they doing. I might go back to my original idea of m3 air with 16gb, or just go bonckers with the 3k mcb m3 pro with 18gb ram, seems the best bang for buck
I got the 13inch air with 512gb ssd with 16gb ram. Which game do you run?
even just minecraft? heats up?
@grantn: Doesn't heat up, also ran a 100% CPU stress test too and after 15mins it's still cool.
If this was on my ROG laptop it won't be as hot either but the fan noise is very loud.
@grantn: On the Education store the 13" 512/8gb unit is going for $1949, wait for a gift card sale can get equivalent 10% off.
this does really well for ~$1400
Yoga Pro 7 (14", Gen 9) AMD
Processor
AMD Ryzen™ 7 8845HS Processor (3.80 GHz up to 5.10 GHz)
Operating System
Windows 11 Home 64
Graphic Card
Integrated Graphics
Memory
16 GB LPDDR5X-6400MHz (Soldered)
Storage
512 GB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4 TLC
Display
14.5" WQXGA (2560 x 1600), IPS, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, 100%sRGB, 350 nits, 90Hz
Camera
1080P FHD RGB/IR Hybrid with Dual Microphone
Battery
4 Cell Li-Polymer 73Wh
AC Adapter / Power Supply
100W USB-C Slim 90% PCC 3pin AC Adapter - ANZ
Fingerprint Reader
No Fingerprint Reader
Keyboard
Backlit, Luna Grey - English
WLAN
Wi-Fi 6E 2x2 AX & Bluetooth® 5.1 or above
Definitely a PC guy at heart, not that there's anything wrong with that…
I use a mac for work and it's great, i just can't get myself to spend mac prices, it's a conundrum
I only ever buy refurb or pre-owned Mac and have always been covered by any applicable service/replacement programmes, which are few and far between these days.
this issue still a thing with windows laptops? OMG every windows laptop I ever owned has this issue.
https://youtu.be/OHKKcd3sx2c?si=4Zxvft3BpZ2N23E8
Modern standby battery drain….
It's pretty much resolved now in terms of going into deep sleep, but…windows update will still wake up the laptop and reboot it which is not ideal. For my work laptop (13800H CPU), I enabled hibernate as per the LTT video when I am not going to be using it for a while or while travelling and it's been fine.
Did you decide on what to get? I still would recommend getting at least 16gb of ram if you are getting a mac.
I'm deciding either between the yoga pro 7 with 8845hs amd chip or the mb air or pro with 16gb/512gb, but the mac is literally twice the price. If the windows laptops have this sorted now, and i can dual boot with Linux, I'm probably just going to go with the yoga 7 pro, it's got a great screen and 73wh battery. Still tossing up. Mac will probably last me longer and be better experience. Stuck in the conundrum paradox with a side of analysis paralysis 😆
Any difference on the M2 and M3?
Here's a good article
https://www.zdnet.com/article/m3-macbook-air-vs-m2-macbook-a…
Just looks like the main improvements are wifi and support multi monitor. Else its the same it seems.
You might want to watch this guy use a MBP M3 8gb with realistic development environments. https://youtu.be/kHKIcBWbnjo. Tldr, it's not good. The SSD gets SMASHED and it's longevity is questionable looking at the comments.
Agreed, would never but a 8gb mac, just not enough, unless you just browsing, but then you can get a tablet for 300 to do that 😆
so, according to tests, the AMD Ryzen 8845HS performs on par with the M3
https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m3-vs-amd-ryzen-…
1400 is great for Pro M2 Pro, or did you mean Pro M2? Either way that's not a bad price.