OLD physics article required, if anyone can help please ... [mission now accomplished; thank you kindly, OzBers!]

GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:16
Last edited 11/04/2024 - 10:55

Greetings OzBers,

Unfortunately I can not obtain the full text of the following article online for free via my current educational institution of employment. It would be great if someone else who can obtain it for free online via their educational institution of employment (or study) could send it to me via a private message. A '.pdf' version of the full text evidently exists, but I can not access it.

Title: Brachistochrone and Tautochrone Curves for Rolling Bodies

Am. J. Phys. 14, 249–252 (1946)

https://doi.org/10.1119/1.1990827

Education & Work

Comments

  • jv on 10/04/2024 - 18:18
    -6

    Unfortunately I can not obtain the full text of the following article online for free

    So why don't you pay for it?

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:18
      +13

      Because I'm a tightarse.

      • jv on 10/04/2024 - 18:20
        -3

        How much is your Course costing you?

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:21
          +1

          Erm … if you read my post (or many of my previous posts), you will glean that my student days are over … I am employed, I am not a student.

          • jv on 10/04/2024 - 18:22

            @GnarlyKnuckles:

            I am employed, I am not a student.

            Then it might be tax deductible.

            • Downvoter on 10/04/2024 - 18:24
              +11

              @jv: Bold tax deductible please

              • jv on 10/04/2024 - 18:32
                +4

                @GnarlyKnuckles:

                I don't reckon there's any law against anyone who can legally acquire a free copy

                It's called Copyright law.

                It's like photocopying a whole book that you buy and giving the copy to someone else. You don't have the right to do that.

                • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:34
                  -4

                  @jv: I believe you are mistaken about this, but I am willing to stand corrected by an expert in copyright law. If I go to a library and legally acquire a .pdf file, then I give that file to a friend/acquaintance of mine, I don't think any law is broken there.

                  • jv on 10/04/2024 - 18:36
                    +1

                    @GnarlyKnuckles:

                    If I go to a library and legally acquire a .pdf file, then I give that file to a friend/acquaintance of mine

                    Nope.

                    The library pays for you to use it. You do not own it.

                    • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 19:03
                      +1

                      @jv: I don't think it is that simple. Look at how 'ResearchGate' works. Users will readily supply copyrighted articles on request/on an individual basis, as long as they have legal access to those articles. It operates on a request system.

                      Incidentally, if 'Eric Rodgers' (the author of the article) was alive I could simply ask him to email me the .pdf. He published the article in 1946 though, so I'm guessing the chances of that happening are pretty slim. If it was the 'olden days' (pre-internet), I could have asked the esteemed Mr Rodgers to send me what was known as a 'reprint'. These were (and still are, actually) were quite legal to distribute on personal request.

                      As an aside, it is a shame that the American Journal of Physics does not subscribe to the ideology that has been widely adopted by medical journals; that any article more than 2 years old should become free to access by all.

                      • jv on 10/04/2024 - 19:10

                        @GnarlyKnuckles:

                        it is a shame that the American Journal of Physics does not subscribe to the ideology

                        Why don't you email them?

                        • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 21:12

                          @jv:

                          'Why don't you email them?'

                          Because I recognise their agenda, and I know exactly what they would 'say'.

                          They would copy/paste a standard response to my email, containing a link that I could click on to pay them a large amount of money for the full text of this ancient article.

                          No thanks.

                • Dollar General on 10/04/2024 - 19:51

                  @jv: Published in 1946 so copyright probably expired now

                • GordonD on 11/04/2024 - 08:33

                  @jv: Copyright lasts 70 years.

                  If the article was published in 1946, as it seems the case, copyright ran out on it 8 years ago.

                  • jv on 11/04/2024 - 09:27

                    @GordonD:

                    Copyright lasts 70 years.

                    Since the death of the copyright owner, not the publication date.

                    • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 10:45

                      @jv: Usually (though this is now changing, slowly) the actual journal that publishes the article is the 'copyright owner'; not the author/s. This begs the question; when does a journal 'die'? Assuming that it remains in 'print'/publication/operation, is the answer 'never'? That would mean that all a journal had to do to maintain eternal copyright would be to publish one short 'article'/editorial of just a sentence or two, once every year or so.

                      They could 'publish' something like this:

                      'We are hereby publishing this passage of text in order to demonstrate that we are still an active entity, and thus we maintain full copyright/ownership of everything we have ever published in the past.'

                      • jv on 11/04/2024 - 10:48

                        @GnarlyKnuckles:

                        journal that publishes the article is the 'copyright owner'; not the author/s.

                        copyright durations applies to "creator" anyway, not the copyright owner…

                        • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 10:53

                          @jv: This makes things even more murky. Of course an invention itself is 'created' by the inventor, but what about the article published in a journal that describes that invention? I bet that many journals would claim to be the 'creator' of said articles. They receive a draft from the inventor, then they edit it (sometimes heavily), 'type-set' it (a modern version of this still applies today), and publish it. They could claim that thus, it is them (the journal) that actually 'creates' the article …

                          • jv on 11/04/2024 - 11:12

                            @GnarlyKnuckles:

                            I bet that many journals would claim to be the 'creator' of said articles.

                            No, it is the author, not the publisher that created the article… Have a chat to Mark Zuckerberg who can explain it to you…

                            • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 11:20

                              @jv: Many journals would argue that the author supplies them with a draft, that they (the journal) then draw from to create an article.

                              • jv on 11/04/2024 - 11:22

                                @GnarlyKnuckles: They can argue all they like, but that does not make them the author.

                                • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 11:24

                                  @jv: Whether they are the 'author' or not is not in question. You began by alluding to the law with respect to the 'copyright holder', then you changed it to the 'creator' … now you are changing it to the 'author'?

                                  • jv on 11/04/2024 - 11:25

                                    @GnarlyKnuckles:

                                    You began by alluding to the law with respect to the 'copyright holder',

                                    It doesn't though.

                                    If you read the law, the 70 years starts from the death of the author of the article.

                                    now you are changing it to the 'author'?

                                    I didn't change it, I corrected it.

                                    • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 11:26

                                      @jv: Kindly direct me to that law. I assume you are referring to an Australian law?

                                      • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 11:28

                                        @GnarlyKnuckles: As an aside, the rule here used to be that you could not change/edit/'correct' comments after someone had responded to them; because that would be madness/create nonsensical chaos.

                                        That has evidently now changed.

                                        Why?

                                      • jv on 11/04/2024 - 11:55
                                        -1

                                        @GnarlyKnuckles:

                                        Kindly direct me to that law.

                                        Google it.

  • MessyG on 10/04/2024 - 18:28
    +9

    It's on SciHub. Just google Scihub, go to their page, put the title in and it is there. I wont put the SciHub link in here because it changes quite frequently. But the article is there, I just checked.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:28

      Thanks for the suggestion, but that appears to just link back to the journal's offer to sell it to me for a large sum of money. They show the first page for free.

      • MessyG on 10/04/2024 - 19:38
        +11

        If you click the Save button it downloads the whole thing…

        https://sci-hub.se/10.1119/1.1990827

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 19:57
          +4

          Aaaah Messy, thou art legend.

          I am hugely grateful!

          I was able to 'cobble together' a full-text version via another source kindly suggested by others below, but a 'download .pdf' button on that same webpage did not work for me. Your link though, provides a downloadable .pdf!

          Brilliant!

          Anyways, thank you to everyone who tried to help me with this. I now have what I need, thanks to you guys.

  • alvian on 10/04/2024 - 18:35
    +3

    The PDF scan is available for free on the web. I am unclear on the copyright situation with old journal articles so I will not give you the link or the PDF. Go look further with your preferred search engine.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:37
      +1

      I looked pretty hard amigo. Of course the first page is available everywhere, but I could not 'Google up' the full text anywhere …

      Can you give me a hint … erm … are you perhaps suggesting that I might be successful if I went … 'sailing into a BAY' (perhaps one with pirates in it?) …?

      • alvian on 10/04/2024 - 18:41

        Document hosted in Mexico (a .mx domain).

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:39
      -2

      Nah, that's just the same link to the journal that is offering to sell the full text.

      • alvian on 10/04/2024 - 18:55

        Did you bother to visit the link before you dismissed it? Not only is there a built-in viewer, there is even a PDF download button.

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 19:08

          OK, I'll try again …

          When I clicked on the link featured at the website linked to above, it just diverted me to the Am. J. Pys page.

          Thank you for your ongoing interest in this.

          • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 19:12

            @GnarlyKnuckles: Oh wow, my mistake was that I clicked on the 'View online: (etc.)' link at the top of that 'dokumen.tips' page. Now I realise that was not the thing to do. Thank you so much you guys, this is really very much appreciated.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 21:33

        I can't add this directly to my former comment, but Alvi is absolutely correct; the whole article can be read there, if you scroll within an in-set window.

  • Nillionaire on 10/04/2024 - 18:43
    +2

    If you don't mind, what do you need an article from 1946 for? Has there been no modern revisions of this particular topic?

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 18:49
      +5

      Me and a friend are trying to nut out a hypothetical problem involving the fastest path (i.e., on a slide/while subject to gravity) a ball could take to get from one end of the room up at the ceiling (where the ceiling meets the wall), to the other end of the room down at floor level (where the wall meets the floor). I reckon it's a cycloid curve, but my mate is not so sure. We both reckon this article might shed some light on the matter.

      Another question has now arisen as to whether 'sliding' as opposed to 'rolling' matters/how it changes things, but that's another story …

      • elgrande on 10/04/2024 - 20:24
        +9

        How many cones have you both had this evening?

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 10/04/2024 - 20:56

          Zero. We left all that behind decades ago, when kids came along. Fond memories though, I'm not gonna' lie …

          If/when they legalise (or at least decriminalise) growing gunja in Victoria, even though I don't partake any more, I will definitely grow some. A huge part of the fun for me back in the day was growing the stuff. It's such a hardy/interesting/responsive/variable (etc.) plant …

      • JIMB0 on 11/04/2024 - 07:07

        And here I was thinking you were trying to cure a case of insomnia.

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 10:35

          Nah … lol.

          I'll give you a clue as to how we got onto the subject though:

          SK8

      • Waltervp on 11/04/2024 - 10:50

        Very interesting! Keep us posted. Id presume a hyperbola, and then what is the optimum shape… i think first 50% steep then gradual to 45?

  • AustriaBargain on 10/04/2024 - 20:58

    There's plenty of YouTube videos on this.

  • AndyC1 on 10/04/2024 - 22:21

    It is copyright by the journal that the paper is published in. You may be able to get a copy from the writers who created the paper.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 00:54

      Yo Ands, re:

      You may be able to get a copy from the writers who created the paper.

      Scroll up. It was published in 1946. The dude is (understandably) dead.

      Thankfully, in keeping with the implied wishes of the esteemed 'Sir' Rodgers (I've decided to knight him, because I found a few interesting facts on my quest for this paper that I reckon warrant a knighthood), via the application of a bit of 'rat cunning' his work can be accessed free of charge, despite efforts by unscrupulous entities to the contrary.

      https://sci-hub.se/10.1119/1.1990827

  • fatbeer on 11/04/2024 - 10:55
    +1

    You're right, the curve wins.Faster than a straight line, weird stuff.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBc827pwKf0

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 11:03

      Yeppers, because of the use of gravity at the start, to acquire initial speed, and ongoing momentum. That's why you have to 'drop in' to a skate bowl or halfpipe … they do not just have a steep straight decline leading to the curve from which you 'get air'. I suppose they could have a non-curved lead in, but that would take up heaps more space, and it would mean that you could only skate it from one end, then you would have to walk back around …

      SK8!

  • Waltervp on 11/04/2024 - 15:01

    Was reading… The Brachistochrone curve represents the path of quickest descent, and it's a classic problem in the calculus of variations. The Brachistochrone curve is a cycloid, which is the curve traced by a point on the rim of a circular wheel as the wheel rolls along a straight line.

    Really very interesting is also the final velocity of the ball. Assuming no friction/resistance, when you drop from some height, regardless of what path you use to do so, the potential energy gets converted into kinetic energy.

    Also, a good illusion is the two tracks build side by side, one with ups and downs like a roller-coaster and the other straight down. A ball goes faster down the roller coaster! Science can be confusing….

    https://youtu.be/MBSRPuUibxk?si=5rwDkQfdGcbBBAHj

  • Ozcelt on 11/04/2024 - 15:06

    I have it. How do I send it to you (pdf version)?

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 18:48

      Thanks to the community here Ozza, I acquired it yesterday; not long after posting my initial request actually. Thank you for your kind offer though :)

  • Ozcelt on 11/04/2024 - 15:19

    PS: As far as I am aware, copyright on this article LAPSED at least 70 years after date of publication (and no more than 75 years, and possibly for 56 years - US). Moreover, in Australia, as I understand it, there is a "fair dealing" exception to copyright for research and study purposes. Given it was published in 1946, I think you're fine.
    Also, fascinating subject. I loved this when I first started maths at Uni.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 11/04/2024 - 18:52

      Yes, I tried to lead jv to discover the 'fair dealing' exception by drawing his attention to ResearchGate and how that works, but he was having none of it …

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