Can an Employer Shorten Your Remaining Period When a Longer than Minimum Notice Is Given?

andrek on 06/03/2024 - 08:20

My wife decided to leave her current employer. Given the upcoming Easter holidays, it would be beneficial for us if her last day is 1st of April. The notice period in the contract is four weeks. She submitted her resignation on 1st of March stating that her last day will be 1st of April. The employer came back on Monday 4th March saying that they've made her last day 29th of March as that's exactly four weeks since the letter, so essentially she'll miss out on three days pay. Not the end of the world, but a few hundred bucks would cover a very nice day out.

So the question is can employers do that? I couldn't find a clear answer. Everything I found so far only talks about shortening the minimum termination notice, like cutting four weeks stated in the contract to three weeks. But couldn't find a clear answer about a case when a longer than required notice is given.

And if this is something that they can't do - where do I go to next, Fair Work?

Education & Work

Comments

- - - - brendanm on 06/03/2024 - 20:05
        
        +2
        
        @Kramo:
        
        If the employer wants to unilaterally reduce that period "it constitutes to the employer terminating the contract and therefore would have unfair dismissal risks attached."
        
        This is also incorrect. They can choose to pay you out, and not have you come in to work. However, they cannot shorten the notice period, and not pay you out.
        
        Kramo on 06/03/2024 - 20:06
        
        @brendanm: "If the employer wants to unilaterally reduce that period [from the amount provided by OP's wife to the contractual minimum]"
        
        Dollar General on 06/03/2024 - 20:27
        
        @Kramo: What If An Employee Provides More Notice than is Legally Required?
        
        You are only required to accept the legally-imposed minimum notice period. If an employee provides a longer notice period than required, you can generally refuse to accept the longer period and instead ask them to finish up at the end of the legally-required minimum period instead.
        
        https://au.adp.com/resources/articles-and-insights/articles/…
        
        brendanm on 06/03/2024 - 19:57
        
        +3
        
        @Kramo: Good lord. The minimum required notice period is 4 weeks. By a "mutual agreement", it can be more or less than this, perhaps they needed her for 6 weeks to train another staff member, and she agreed. She can also not agree to this. In exactly the same way, the employer doesn't have to agree to her working any amount of time past the 4 weeks.
        
        The simplest way to understand this is to go crazy with the notice period. "Hi employer, I'm quitting, and giving you 10 years notice, you can't get rid of me before this time".
        
        Kramo on 06/03/2024 - 20:02
        
        +1
        
        @brendanm: I give 10 years notice. They then give me 4 weeks notice. If it takes them a month to reply, they don't get to say "here's 4 weeks notice from when you gave your notice". They have to give 4 weeks notice from when they tell me that they're firing me. It doesn't change my point at all.
        
        Nothing wrong with the company giving 4 week's notice. But how do they come back 3 days later and 'back-date' their firing notice?
        
        brendanm on 06/03/2024 - 20:03
        
        +3
        
        @Kramo:
        
        They then give me 4 weeks notice.
        
        This is where you are getting confused. The employer doesn't "give you notice". Unless agreed upon, the notice period is as stated in the contract.
        
        Kramo on 06/03/2024 - 20:10
        
        @brendanm: If they don't want to accept the proposed notice period given by the employee, then they'll need to give notice that they're not accepting the extended period, and going to end the employee's contract themselves.
        
        Contracts say the minimum notice, not 'this is the mandatory' notice. If an employee gives whatever notice they want (including 10 years), the employer doesn't have a choice to accept or reject that. But then they can start their own process, which took them over the weekend to do in this case.
        
        brendanm on 06/03/2024 - 20:32
        
        +2
        
        @Kramo:
        
        then they'll need to give notice that they're not accepting the extended period, and going to end the employee's contract themselves.
        
        They don't give notice, they just don't accept what you want, and instead it defaults to the time period that was already agreed upon in the contract. Feel free to call fairwork tomorrow and confirm.
        
        brendanm on 06/03/2024 - 20:34
        
        +1
        
        @Kramo:
        
        the employer doesn't have a choice to accept or reject that.
        
        Lol, you quoted that entirely out of context, it says they "don't have a choice whether or not to accept the resignation", has nothing to do with the notice period.
        
        Kramo on 06/03/2024 - 20:14
        
        +2
        
        @Kramo: To scenario it with dates:
        
        1 Jan 2024 - I give 10 years notice that I'm quitting 31 Dec 2033. Contract says 1 month notice
        Company obviously not interested in that and wants me gone
        
        30 Jan 2024 - Company HR returns from holiday and says they're rejecting my 10 years notice and want me gone ASAP.
        You're suggesting that the notice of them getting rid of me (by rejecting my notice period and starting their own) can 'start' on 1 Jan 2024, be backdated and on 30 Jan they can give me 0 days warning that they're walking me out the door and not paying me anymore. I'm suggesting that when they make that statement of rejecting my notice period and wanting to go with a shorter/minimum period, they're starting a new process. They're firing me, I'm not quitting anymore.
        
        brendanm on 06/03/2024 - 20:33
        
        +2
        
        @Kramo:
        
        They're firing me, I'm not quitting anymore.
        
        Nope, the notice period previously agreed to in your work contract is what is used, unless something else is agreed upon. Nothing else was agreed upon, so the contract notice period applies from the date you tendered your resignation.
        
        MS Paint on 06/03/2024 - 21:06
        
        +2
        
        @brendanm: You two need to get a room and nut this one out in private. Cheers 😉
        
        brendanm on 06/03/2024 - 21:45
        
        +1
        
        @MS Paint: I'll just pay for the phone call to fairwork. Sorry to keep you up with all the noise.
        
        Pacisci on 08/03/2024 - 20:56
        
        +1
        
        @brendanm: @Kramo, Brendanm is 100% correct here, and there is really no argument to be had:
        
        The minimum notice period exist to protect both parties (and avoid unfair contract terms law).
        The employee has tendered their resignation in writing, signifying the desire to end the agreement.
        An employer cannot reject a resignation, so it is effective from the moment tendered (provided handed over personally or sent via email)
        The employer (effective the party "terminated") now has a decision as whether they want to:
        a) Release the employee from their duties early (payout will be in order)
        b) Enforce the minimum notice period
        c) Negotiate with the employee for a longer period
        Let imagine you emailed your boss with notice of resignation and he turned round 4 weeks later and said "Sorry Dave I never saw the email, I'm afraid your notice period starts now!". Or you gave him a printed letter and he just said 4 weeks later "Nah, I never got that". Obviously he can't do that, just as you can't pick your final day.
        
        Note if it was a verbal resignation there would be an onus on the employer to have things confirmed in writing (to avoid a he-said she-said situation), but that is not the case here. The below link explains it all fairly clearly:
        https://lawpath.com.au/blog/can-employee-resign-without-noti…
        
        "What is a notice period?
        Notice periods refer to the time between an employee handing in their resignation letter and the last day of their employment. Similarly, they refer to the period between an employee receiving a termination notice and the last day of their employment. The last day of an employee’s employment marks the end of the notice period. Notice periods generally apply whether an employee chooses to resign themselves or their employment is terminated by their employer. Notice periods generally consist of employees completing any remaining tasks and preparing for the handover."
        
        Kramo on 08/03/2024 - 21:38
        
        @Pacisci: FairWork themselves couldn't give me a straight answer and suggested contacting a lawyer, which already wasted enough of my time. So not sure why you're so confident?
        
        Plus as below, direct from FairWork "The last day of the employee’s employment is the last day of their notice period, unless this date is varied by mutual agreement between the employer and employee, or the employer terminates the employee’s employment during the notice period."
        
        To turn your example around. Dave give 2 months notice on a 1 month minimum notice enterprise agreement. His boss comes back a month later and says "hey sorry never saw your message, but it's been a month since you gave notice, leave now and I'm not paying you past today." Where's the "mutual agreement"? And if the boss is now firing Dave to try enforce that without agreement, that starts a new notice period (with minimum requirements) since it's now a termination.
        
        Pacisci on 08/03/2024 - 22:38
        
        @Kramo: Oh mate don't expect Fairwork Call Centre employees to understand all the nuances. You basically spoke to a CSA who would be a on a low salary, and it is not encouraged to give you specific advice unless it's very straightforward / trainable (hence why they referred you to a lawyer. It's the same as ringing the ATO, they will post you to an accountant for anything tricky).
        
        Full disclosure I am not a Lawyer, but I work in Insurance:
        a) They make me do training on contract law, and I have to go through updates / implications of changes to things like unfair contract terms legislation
        b) These days (for my area) I have to read every commercial contract cover to cover before it goes to the big dogs for signing (not just me, someone from every key function has to do the same)
        b) I've seen several contract disputes play out in real time (incl. some involving massive ASX companies)
        c) I've picked enough Lawyers brains over the years, and was very friendly with our old Head of HR
        
        Re: you point:
        "Plus as below, direct from FairWork "The last day of the employee’s employment is the last day of their notice period, unless this date is varied by mutual agreement between the employer and employee, or the employer terminates the employee’s employment during the notice period"
        Exactly! Notice period starts as soon as she resigns, and the last day will be 4 weeks later unless varied by mutual agreement!
        
        Re: your counter example:
        No your correct the boss can't do that. The onus is on the employer to go back to Dave and tell him hey no the minimum notice period will apply… which is exactly what the employer did in this scenario (on the Monday, which was pretty reasonable given she resigned on Friday)
        
        Kramo on 08/03/2024 - 22:50
        
        @Pacisci:
        
        The onus is on the employer to go back to Dave and tell him hey no the minimum notice period will apply…
        
        Which is my side of the discussion. The entire discussion between us has been about saying the boss can or can't do that.
        
        As far as Friday to Monday, I agree that it could count as reasonable. But OP wanted to be dodgy with their public holidays; if they're given the suggestion would I put it past them to want to be dodgy about this too and go back and complain to the boss that they took "technically 3 calendar days" to get back to them? Not at all. And I had too many legal classes at uni where the common man's "reasonable" applies or doesn't apply randomly.
        
        Pacisci on 08/03/2024 - 23:06
        
        @Kramo: My experience is it's very rarely random it's within the wider context; so there might be:
        (i) Case precedent
        (ii) Contra proferentem (where a term is ambiguous, the preferred meaning should be the one that works against the interests of the party who provided the wording)
        (iii) Intention of the laws are considered (make the agreement fair for both parties)
        
        Intention to be Fair is key here:
        
        She decided to quit, and the employer has no right to refuse
        Employer therefore gets first right of refusal in terms of any discussion around going beyond the minimum period
        If the Employer says let's do 8 weeks then the ball is back in her court at that point (because she would then be accommodating their wishes and has no obligation to agree)
        
        kaleidoscope on 09/03/2024 - 01:30
        
        +1
        
        @Kramo:
        
        I wouldn't be friends with someone who comes to a bargain forum for legal advice.
        
        Why can’t you think of it as “looking for bargain on legal advice”
    - EPICKOREANBABE on 08/03/2024 - 11:13
      
      +4
      
      Not sure while you are being blasted here- taking 5 minutes to read the Fairwork link you posted shows you are right.
      
      "Sometimes an employee may choose to give their employer more notice than the minimum notice period required by their industrial instrument or employment contract.
      
      The last day of the employee’s employment is the last day of their notice period, unless this date is varied by mutual agreement between the employer and employee, or the employer terminates the employee’s employment during the notice period."
      
      Thus, to bring the date ("the last day of their notice period") forward without mutual agreement, the employer must terminate the employee.
      - Pacisci on 08/03/2024 - 21:39
        
        +1
        
        @EPICKOREANBABE: No I'm afraid it doesn't, you're making inferences without consideration of the wider context (contract & employment law).
        
        When the employee resigns, they are utilizing one of their rights under the contract. This triggers the beginning of the notice period (termination has been served and cannot be rejected by the other party / employer).
        
        The next question is then do both parties want to agree on a longer notice period than the minimum? (and yes, both parties would need to agree, if one party had that choice it would create an unfair contract term given one undue power over the other).
        
        You don't have to work longer than your notice period and the employer (as the party being "dumped" / terminated) does not have to keep you around longer than the notice period.
        
        I'm not a lawyer but work in Insurance so deal with similar topics in commercial agreements (and have picked many a lawyer's brain over the years).
        
        brendanm on 08/03/2024 - 22:05
        
        @Pacisci: I honestly cannot fathom how people can think that it is any way other than this.
        
        Pacisci on 09/03/2024 - 02:00
        
        @brendanm: I think it's pretty common behaviour for people to project that the correct answer is the one they would like it to be (so it's probably fairly safe to say those arguing the other way are not likely to be business owners!)
        
        Kramo on 08/03/2024 - 23:04
        
        @Pacisci: So then, as per the above example, you're suggesting:
        
        Dave give 2 months notice on a 1 month minimum notice enterprise agreement. His boss comes back a month later and says "hey sorry never saw your message, but it's been a month since you gave notice, leave right now and I'm not paying you past today.
        
        Is a perfectly valid and legal scenario to occur.
        
        Pacisci on 08/03/2024 - 23:14
        
        @Kramo: I think Dave would have a great unfair dismissal claim right there. It's his boss that's messed up by missing the notification.
        
        a) He can't then act like a spoilt child and kick Dave out for spite
        b) He probably needs Dave as unlikely there has been a handover!
        
        40-0 Dave
        
        Kramo on 08/03/2024 - 23:23
        
        @Pacisci: Which ultimately, is where my and brendanm 's arguing got to: an entirely different set of case facts and context compared to OP's wife, but more around "when does that agreement happen, and when can rejection occur? And if rejection occurs later, is it part of the same resignation, or a new termination". But it's off topic enough with enough discussion already.
        
        I'd consider it pretty reasonable to bet against OP if they take this to court (but they're welcome to threaten legal action to try get the 3 days), and bet against Dave's boss if he pulls the extreme version.
        
        Pacisci on 08/03/2024 - 23:54
        
        @Kramo: Well we've arrived at the same landing point but with different thought journeys (and levels of confidence - I'd put major money on OP and Dave's boss losing).
        
        If I summarize your above questions:
        
        The agreement (to end employment) was effective as soon as she gave her resignation.
        
        Rejection of the resignation is illegal.
        
        Rejection of the employees proposed leaving date (if beyond minimum period) should occur within a reasonable time-period (this is the part where I would ask someone with experience).
        
        Termination during the notice period would have to be for valid grounds (i.e. it cannot be directly because of the resignation, let's say you sexually assaulted a co-worker). I'm sure it can and does happen, but employer has too avoid looking petty.
        
        Lol I almost wrote regards at the end of this post….. sign my brain is in work mode! If I get made redundant I can take this as training for a job at FairWork!
        
        Search for a guy called Ben-Askins on YouTube (he's been constantly coming up in my Shorts this week… probably why I ended up taking an interest in this thread!)
        
        Kramo on 09/03/2024 - 00:02
        
        @Pacisci: Yeah, I definitely don't want to start diving into "termination for just cause effective immediately" as a possible part of #4. That sounds like a whole other discussion.
        
        And it's a much better response than I got from FairWork, just throw in a few links to their website that are (maybe, but probably not) tangentially related to something that was discussed and you're ready to start.
        
        xsacha on 09/03/2024 - 22:52
        
        @Kramo: I think the simple fact you're missing is that the notice period is actually 4 weeks unless mutually agreed [so both parties, not just the employee] to a different period.
        So when you give your resignation, it is 4 weeks from that date regardless of when you suggested it should be. The employer can negotiate a different date with the employee separately but it will otherwise be what is stated in the contract. This is my experience from leaving a few different companies.
        
        Also, some companies (Boeing for example), will require you DO NOT enter the office again or use their network after giving notice. Of course they still pay you for the minimum period but you will no longer conduct any work.
        Accepting a longer notice period is not in their interest.
      - darkmattersunB6c0MV on 08/03/2024 - 22:18
        
        @EPICKOREANBABE: EpicKoreanBabe You are misinterpreting last date of notice period as what is arbitrarily set by the employee, but actually for the context of this paragraph the notice period is the contractual notice period agreed when you signed the employment contract.
        Anyway, you do not get paid for Sat and Sunday (unless you are a shift worker and often work on those days).
        Storm in a teacup.
  - JIMB0 on 06/03/2024 - 16:38
    
    +1
    
    I couldn't be bothered looking for the clause on their behalf. They should have looked at the calender to check for upcoming public holidays before resigning and avoided this problem in the first place.
- original15 on 06/03/2024 - 13:50
  
  Termination and resignation differ however
- JimmyF on 06/03/2024 - 13:51
  
  OP isn't being terminated so doesn't apply.
  
  OP is already being paid the PH on the 29th, they just wanted to try and be sneaky and get the Monday paid as well, but the employer went yeah nah to that and rightly so!
Drpepper666 on 06/03/2024 - 13:39

+1

Sue them with bikies
Eeples on 06/03/2024 - 16:11

+2

Given the upcoming Easter holidays, it would be beneficial for us if her last day is 1st of April.

is this a joke?
ColtNoir on 07/03/2024 - 09:37

You know the 1st April will also be a public holiday?
Soundwave on 07/03/2024 - 12:45

+8

I guess your wife thought she would get her employers with April Fool's. The employer saw the joke and flipped it with a Uno reverse card.
Cartmanizm on 07/03/2024 - 16:02

+2

March 1 + the required 4 weeks (28 days) = March 29. She should of resigned on March 4 to achieve an April 1 end date.

I fail to see the problem here apart from her math.
jsparky77 on 07/03/2024 - 16:08

-5

The nuance that everyone in the comments (that I have read at least) is the difference between resignation and dismissal. Your wife needed to follow the RESIGNATION notice period to resign. Her employer needs to follow the DISMISSAL notice period for her to leave earlier. Review the contract. Check if her employer met the requirements for dismissal to end her employment earlier than her resignation date. The requirements would include formal notice and the minimum notice period observed.
- gromit on 07/03/2024 - 16:52
  
  +1
  
  It is NOT a dismissal, she handed in notice. The date she added would be considered a request and rather than a contractual term unless her contract allows her to dictate the end date beyond the notice period. Given she is requesting to be paid for an extra public holiday it isn't surprising that they declined and just ended on the friday (which itself is giving her a paid public holiday on her last day).
- Hybroid on 07/03/2024 - 20:27
  
  +1
  
  Check if her employer met the requirements for dismissal to end her employment earlier than her resignation date.
  
  What. Her resignation date is the last day of employment when the notice period ends. The notice period is 4 weeks from providing notice. Not whenever she wants it to be.
  
  Dismissal isn't even relevant here. There's no dismissal from either side. It's a voluntary resignation.
ceroau on 07/03/2024 - 17:17

+1

Yes they can do that. Just because there is no links written in the specific way you want it written, doesn't mean they can't do that. In fact, the fact you're unable to find anything doesn't state it either way should be all the proof you need to know they can do that.

If something was against the rules it would be written about in detail when it comes to employee rights. Something that is within the rule, doesn't always necessarily need to be stated outright because most(some) people have common sense.

Perfect example. I can't disprove god exists but he doesn't but just cause I can't, doesn't mean by default he must therefore exist Reverse that, I can't prove god exists even though he does, doesn't mean by default he must therefore not exist.

Your logic is out of whack dude, just take the lose.
ihbh on 07/03/2024 - 17:58

+2

Here's a solution:

Tell your wife to withdraw her resignation tomorrow.

Then submit a new resignation - she'll finish 4th April with the extra weekend and public holiday.

She might have to say things like pretty please…
- mattmel96 on 07/03/2024 - 21:04
  
  +2
  
  But the employer is under no obligation to accept the withdrawal of her resignation just because she has changed her mind. Once tendered, the resignation is legally binding unless both parties wish to rescind it.
  - ihbh on 08/03/2024 - 07:31
    
    I added the pretty please.
    
    Do I need /s?
- Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/03/2024 - 05:30
  
  Resignation already accepted.
icekopii on 07/03/2024 - 18:19

cost of living going to hit hard with 3 days of no pay!
Jammar on 07/03/2024 - 20:31

If your contract stated 4 weeks you then need to provide a minimum of 4 weeks notice, anything less or more is for the employer to worry about.

You can offer 5 months notice but why would the employer take the risk knowing you could leave any time from week 5 onwards?
- ddilrat on 08/03/2024 - 07:07
  
  +1
  
  That's not how it works. If you give an end date 5 months away you can't leave early unless you give another notice 4 weeks before the end date
darque on 07/03/2024 - 20:55

Rookie mistake. 4 weeks or 20 working days take her right before the long weekend. Why didn't she just wait until AFTER the weekend to resign…?
fredk1000 on 07/03/2024 - 21:23

Use sick leave or just tell the employer they are going to a competitor.
Maybe the will walk you or give you gardening leave.

Depends on the type job of course.
Yiddos on 07/03/2024 - 23:23

+1

Just let it go, op… you (and your wife) will feel happier.
duluxe2000 on 08/03/2024 - 00:30

Thanks OP for sharing your exp 😄
smpantsonfire on 08/03/2024 - 03:25

+1

Lmao so many people in this thread think they know the rules. Clearly not. Source: Payroll.
- Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/03/2024 - 05:31
  
  +3
  
  Yeah it's not like Payroll ever make mistakes.
  
  Source: bazillion companies fined for systematically underpaying workers in the last 5 years alone.
  - tomfool on 08/03/2024 - 14:42
    
    +1
    
    Lets be honest those were not mistakes they were intentional underpayments.
ddilrat on 08/03/2024 - 07:06

+4

Don't believe they can. You're allowed to give more notice, that's just a minimum. They can't chop a few days off unless they formally terminate the contract with cause
Poor Ass on 08/03/2024 - 08:35

+2

I'm poor but mate this is next level cheapskate
- bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 09:03
  
  Lmao, I lol'd at this. Hilarious that OP would spend the time to write this up.
  
  The employer is complying with the law, of course they can shorten the notice period down to what the contract says. Why would the firm pay you more if you are going to leave anyway? It makes no sense.
  - Poor Ass on 08/03/2024 - 09:27
    
    +1
    
    The question is did they use up all their annual leave, sick leave and bereavement leave before they put in for resignation lol
    
    If the position is disposable with ease no employer would want to keep you there longer than required. I've even seen some instances that they pay the resigner those 4 weeks not to turn up to work because they don't want sabotage
    - bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 09:39
      
      Annual leave is paid out anyways, no need to use it up before you go.
      
      Using up sick and bereavement leave is next level though lol. These are not paid out on departure, but some people try to use this up before resigning. Its abit sus if its used after resignation.
      - Poor Ass on 08/03/2024 - 10:32
        
        @bargainhunter168: if they don't need a reference they don't really care and sus it all the way
        
        but then you won't get a holiday and get paid if you cash out annual leave
  - Relapse on 08/03/2024 - 10:54
    
    What makes you think they can shorten a notice period?
    - bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 10:58
      
      They can shorten a notice period down to the minimum specified on the contract.
      
      For example, if the contract says 30 days notice period, if someone tenders their resignation and say they resign and their last day is 60 days away. The company can shorten that down to the period to period specified in the contract, which is 30 days.
      
      They can't shorten it down further without mutual agreement, for example, the company can elect to walk you out of the office immediately, but pay you for the 30 days, that is possible, they are not obliged to continue to give you access to their office or their data after your resignation. The firm can't only pay you for 2 weeks instead of 30 days for example if they walk you out immediately.
      - Relapse on 08/03/2024 - 11:00
        
        @bargainhunter168: I believe that is only the employees right if the employer gives notice. I'm happy to be proven wrong but employee resignation and employer termination have very different conditions.
        
        You are right, they can walk you out immediately but in that case they have to pay you for the period.
        
        bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 11:08
        
        @Relapse:
        
        You are right, they can walk you out immediately but in that case they have to pay you for the period.
        
        Exactly, the notice period specified on the contract, not the notice period the resigning employee specified.
        
        I found this on fair work, https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ending-employment/notice-and-fin…
        
        Once an employee gives their employer notice, their employer should make sure the amount of notice is correct.
        An employer doesn't have the choice to accept or reject an employee's resignation. Usually employers will acknowledge an employee's resignation and then the employee works as usual until the end of the notice period, when their employment ends.
        
        The notice period on the contract, not specified by the employee. Think about it logically, what if the employee sets a notice period of 6 months? Is the employer bound by that? Of course not, it wouldn't be reasonable, if that's not reasonable, then it wouldn't be reasonable for any period above the notice period in the contract.
        
        Relapse on 08/03/2024 - 11:23
        
        @bargainhunter168: The notice period is only the minimum notice period and the above just is ensuring that the minimum is adhered to - you can absolutely give more notice - I wouldn't expect a promotion or payrise during that period but it gives the employer more time to find a replacement or deem your role redundant.
        
        I'm not saying this is something that should be done - I don't think to OPs approach was smart - but I don't think resigning for a future date gives the employer a right to terminate.
        
        bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 11:31
        
        @Relapse: If you resign, then the employer only needs to guarantee you are either paid for the minimum notice period or you work till the end of the notice period.
        
        You either resigned or not, you can't give notice of an intention to resign, once you have resigned, you've resigned, the minimum notice period kicks in or a longer one which is mutually agreed to.
        
        Relapse on 08/03/2024 - 12:46
        
        +3
        
        @bargainhunter168: That doesn't sound right - I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread between the notice period and the minimum notice period.
        
        https://library.fairwork.gov.au/viewer/?krn=K600628#:~:text=…
        
        Notice period
        When an employee resigns, they need to give their employer at least the minimum notice period that applies. This may come from their employment contract or their industrial instrument, such as an award, enterprise agreement, or other registered agreement.
        
        Sometimes an employee may choose to give their employer more notice than the minimum notice period required by their industrial instrument or employment contract.
        
        The last day of the employee’s employment is the last day of their notice period, unless this date is varied by mutual agreement between the employer and employee, or the employer terminates the employee’s employment during the notice period.
bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 09:02

+1

Of course the employer can do this, they have follow complied with the contract.

Your wife made an error, she should have resigned later if she wanted her end date to be 1st April. Take this is a few hundred dollar lesson and move on.
Roe Jogan on 08/03/2024 - 09:05

+1

OP wife watched a few instagram posts of people quitting in style and got too excited, so she did 3 months notice in advance and now they will be out of a salary for 2 months ROFL
freekay on 08/03/2024 - 09:10

+1

I don't think it's anything malicious on the employer's part. Everything these days is done via a HRIS, so her manager (or someone in HR) has probably just popped the notice begin date and the system has automatically spat out the final working date, along with all of her remaining entitlements to be paid out. It is what it is. Plus, trying to game your employer by providing a PH as a last working day is pretty dodgy on your behalf.
Relapse on 08/03/2024 - 10:28

The wording of the resignation letter matters as well as the employment contact however if it just states you intend for the last day to be the 1st of April I would 100% dispute it. I don't think they can bring your resignation date forward without it becoming a termination/redundancy instead which have other implications. I would call fair work.

This was all avoidable though, there's a lesson here.
- bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 11:16
  
  No it doesn't, there's no wording you can use to specify a longer notice period than the contract, it wouldn't be valid, unless the employer accepts it. In that case, they agree to vary the terms of the contract.
gutwagon on 08/03/2024 - 11:32

+2

The answer to your question is yes they can do that, it legal. Many employers would make her leave on the day she handed in her resignation and as long as they pay her 4 weeks pay( or whatever the notice period is on the contract) that is also legal.
bargainhunter168 on 08/03/2024 - 11:41

Proposed last day is a public holiday, 1st April, hahaha, I see what the OP's wife tried to do there.

Just fumbled on the execution.
twotwotwo on 08/03/2024 - 11:52

When I see posts like this and their logic. I think to myself, I am going to do alright in life. I ask for a raise of 20%, boss says no. The 20% raise in pay would have helped.
BartholemewH on 08/03/2024 - 11:56

+1

You can offer a longer notice period, they can politely decline. Has nothing to do with termination, as the employee has resigned. Would have thought this is evident to everyone on the planet, but am constantly surprised.
Drakesy on 08/03/2024 - 13:59

+2

your wife played herself.
TightAl on 08/03/2024 - 14:07

+2

Damn, never seen an OP so argumentative before.
Why would a company keep someone past their obligated noticed period? Pay them to twiddle their thumbs in the corner?

LOL We'll keep Sally another day since it's easter because she's a nice lady said no one ever.
Pufff on 08/03/2024 - 15:05

Missing a very nice day out is a good a lesson as any.
gtech on 08/03/2024 - 16:33

+1

It's people like this that make us such a litigious society.
nigel deborah on 08/03/2024 - 17:02

-2

A lot of confidently incorrect people in this thread.

Yes, you come across as a bit entitled. But no, your employer cannot shorten your notice period, doing so would consititute them giving you notice aka termination.

You could give notice for a date 10 years in advance. Your employer could say that's stupid, but they can't now force you to resign in 4 weeks just because your contract/award states that is the minimum notice period. They also don't need to wait 10 years, they can get rid of you in any of the normal employer initiated ways aka termination, redundancy etc.

The law defines the notice period as the time between giving notice and ending work. The minimum notice period is the shortest time that is allowed to be. There is no upper limit.
xlimit on 08/03/2024 - 20:08

Don't forget the benefits! Oh my, all the lost benefits… They're laughing at you OP, taking your hard earned money and you're the one letting them do it.
Roary on 08/03/2024 - 20:21

Hey @andrek

I am with you on this one and will probable get down voted to hell. But I feel you are correct. The contract probably says minimum 4 weeks notice and that what you did. The company instead terminated employment giving you 4 weeks notice.

but I think the masses here are correct. Have a read here
https://library.fairwork.gov.au/viewer/?krn=K600628#:~:text=….
Basically once an employee has given notice the company can decide to terminate the notice earlier so long as the minimum notice is still given.

However the company must give the full 4 weeks notice. In this case the company advised on Monday 4th and did not give 4 weeks notice they have to give. There is a classic example here

*Example
Madri has worked for her employer, Atlas, for 2 years when she decides to resign. Her award says she needs to give Atlas 2 weeks’ notice.

Madri decides to give Atlas 4 weeks’ notice to give him enough time to find a replacement for her job. She works 1 week of her resignation notice period when Atlas finds a replacement for her role and decides that he does not need her to work for the rest of her 4 week resignation notice period.

Atlas seeks independent legal advice and then discusses Madri’s notice period with her. They reach a mutual agreement that Madri will cease work immediately and be paid 2 weeks’ pay.

Atlas has to pay Madri for the week she worked during her resignation notice period and the 2 weeks’ pay.*
- nigel deborah on 09/03/2024 - 07:58
  
  That requires the agreement of both parties as explained in the example used.
  
  Without agreement, it would be considered termination by the employer to shorten the provided notice period. They can still do it, but they'll just have to abide by the rules for employer initiated action to end the employment relationship.
Aidanaus on 08/03/2024 - 23:22

-2

This is extremely petty of them, It's your fault for being early but they are very very petty, I gave notice as well for my employer and they were very happy for the extra long notice and it's good you are getting a new job as they seem like a pain in the ass to work for.

I would ask for last day to be longer to them in email/HR if not not much you can do
yahms on 09/03/2024 - 12:36

Misleading title omits important Easter public holidays detail

Wording suggests they’re paying her for Good Friday even though her past worked day would be the Thursday. Take that as a win man, don’t be greedy with the ‘I’ll quit on Monday, April 1st’ move.

And losing 3 days pay?? What job does she do where she works Friday Saturday Sunday Monday of Easter and gets paid for all 4 days. Seems misleading also
ChatCPT on 09/03/2024 - 13:27

+3

what planet is OP from?

I cant believe I have to walk the streets with this fool
Vita85 on 09/03/2024 - 13:56

+4

Dumb threads like this show there's no hope for humanity.
conan2000 on 09/03/2024 - 16:29

Employer can agree to it at their discretion if you give more notice than required. But realistically, many people stop caring about their job in the last few weeks after resigning. The employer is fully within their right to only allow 4-weeks notice if that's what the contract says.

I have done the longer notice a couple of times as it was November/December timeframe and I wanted the extra public holidays paid. One employer declined and finished me up after 4 weeks, the other accepted it and let me finish in early January with almost 2 months notice.
dji1111111 on 09/03/2024 - 16:54

+1

The fact that there are people out there with zero common sense and thinks this is a reasonable question just proves how dumb the general population is.
It is a miracle that these people even have a job.
bigbadaboom on 09/03/2024 - 17:11

-1

Never give corporates more notice than contractually required. That courtesy is rarely reciprocated.
- CocaKoala on 10/03/2024 - 04:57
  
  +1
  
  It's not like the ops wife was any more courteous. They tried to fleece a few hundred from the employer by providing a longer than necessary notice (the only reason was to include the holidays in their notice). Don't even try to tell me they were going to do some valuable work in these last 3 or 4 days.
  
  The employer though called out this BS immediately as they've probably seen hundreds if not thousands of cheapskates trying to pull all sorts of stunts.
  
  They didn't even have the brain to resign a few days later if they wanted to be paid for the holidays. The whole thing is quite laughable.
minniethemoocher on 10/03/2024 - 10:12

Does the contract say 4 weeks or 20 working days? If it says 20 working days. Given the 29th isn't a working day plus some states have Labour day as well so the 29 March is not 20 working days. However if the contract states that notice period is 4 weeks then I would argue that the 4 weeks starts from the 4 March when the employer advised you that they rejected your wife's resignation date of the 1 April. This would make 4 weeks the 1 April still.
ireadtermsofuse on 10/03/2024 - 11:49

+1

2 plus 2 is 4 minus 1 that’s 3 quick maffs
Uncle Chop Chop on 10/03/2024 - 12:45

Most contracts state "minimum notice". If your wife's does, then she has complied, and the company can't simply impose a different end date unless it's agreed by all parties. Simple.
serpserpserp on 10/03/2024 - 16:08

+3

lol someone tried to game the system and lost.
kiitos on 11/03/2024 - 14:47

+1

Not a govt website, but found this:

https://progressivelegal.com.au/workplace-law/notice-period-…

If your employee gives a longer notice period, you do not have to accept this and may choose to only let the employee work the minimum notice period. In the alternative, you may wish to pay out the minimum notice period.

Can an Employer Shorten Your Remaining Period When a Longer than Minimum Notice Is Given?

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