The Queensland government will give out rebates of between $3,000 and $4,000 for households to install solar battery storage systems.
The $10 million program will begin today with the government giving out about 2,000 means-tested rebates.
Was waiting for this after diligent reseach ruled out an EV as my new car, despite a similar large subsidy for them here in Queensland.
@Naigrabzo: Cool… it would have been great if this was your initial post, instead of that bit about ROI and battery warranty which doesn't reflect that most battery "failure" warranty issues relate to if after 10 years, a battery only has a whopping 80% of capacity left.
@rooster7777: There is no guarantee that battery will be at 80% at 10 years. It could be more or less. I can almost guarantee that one will not be able to claim warranty for battery percentage easily as the manufacturers could easily program the battery to display 80% (or more) at 10 years even though it might be less. It's almost impossible to measure true battery capacity anyways.
I bet there will be #Batterygate.
Apple has already done it once as you would remember.
@Naigrabzo: I believe that these domestic installation batteries WILL guarantee 80% capacity at 10 years.
Your "almost guarantee" isn't worth anything.
Almost impossible to measure true battery capacity? I'm astounded at this comment. Have you ever had anything to do with rechargeable batteries?
@rooster7777: To guarantee 80% you need to be able to measure 80%. How do you propose to measure this? Just use the software on the battery? If I were the manufacturer, I would just incorporate a 0.5% per year to prevent it from 'degrading' more than 0.5% per year. So it will show 95% at 10 years although the true capacity might be much lower. :)
It's like the warranty for solar panels. Sure it's 25 years but it would be so difficult and tedious to test them to claim the warranty. At least they can be tested though, still very difficult to replicate 25 degree conditions with optimum sun light.
@Naigrabzo: Hard to believe your post….but here we go.
You connect any sort of load to the battery through a power meter, and measure how much power from fully charged, until it stops powering the load. Read how many KWh rs the battery supplied off the power meter….and that is it's current capacity. Do I need to tell you how to calculate 80% of original capacity too?
How to check a solar array's output? Look at the forking array output meter on the inverter. It obviously will vary at different times due to sun inclination, cloud, and atmospheric obscuration…. but the intent isn't to create a lab certified figure, it's for a consumer to know how they're performing.
I'm really curious what is so hard to fathom about that?
Great initiative - and I'm glad it's means tested as well. Sad I missed out on last years rebates too, our hot water system has just packed it in.
There's no way to get change out of $6k for a half decent system though right?
Why you glad its means tested? Typically the only people that can now afford are business owners with trust accounts to reduce their income.
What even is this comment
Tho to answer the first question - I like that this is specifically targeted at benefiting the lower incomes. Every man and his dog wants a home battery system (except the first comment on this deal) so it would be significantly less socially impactful to open the floodgates. This rebate will make the difference between many struggling households getting batteries or not which is nothing but fantastic in my eyes.
Clever people who beat the system should be rewarded. If you want to change the system go be a politician. Otherwise beat it. ;)
I have 2 hydrotherm hot water systems installed, very good unit.
Heat pump is efficient
About $2500 installed after STC rebate
Is there a current solar subsidy in NSW?
There is a rebate, but …… Not really for everyone 😔
https://www.energy.nsw.gov.au/households/rebates-grants-and-…
Why is this even means tested? … everyone should benefit from a solar system that not only works during the day but at night.
Pragmatically it is the best use of tax dollars to accomplish the desired outcome.
Green tech front loads the cost of the system to achieve savings over the long run. Lower income households usually can't afford/prioritise the front loaded cost while higher income households can.
If you want to greatest adoption you incentivise the lower income households as the higher income ones have a greater chance of doing it regardless.
It will be interesting to see how the means testing affects the uptake of the subsidy. As someone else commented it will suit wealthy retirees on low incomes.
The State Govt. would have started with a budget and modeled the uptake with different eligibility criteria until they matched the budget. So likely as expected for them.
Wealthy retirees may be a edge case. However, if you look at this with the desired outcome being adoption rates and not financial relief, retirees have a similar proposition to low income. A lot of them would not have considered installing Green Tech due to concerns of health and not being around to realise the cost savings.
Not as catchy for politics as financial aid but still pragmatically encouraging Green Tech. This initiative should also lower peak demand as they try to transition the grid to more renewables.
More forces are at play than just social welfare although that is the best media angle.
Because the “rich” subsidises the “poor” aka tax.
Only have a 2kw array - with 3kw inverter - so not eligible unfortunately. Likely won't consider upgrading until 2028 either.
If they're a pensioner, is it automatically max discount?
I just love the “combined income < $180,000” BS, same as in Victoria…
With the house both on my and my wife’s name, me earning $90,000 and her earning $91,000 we have a combined income of $181,000 and we can’t get the rebate. With the house only on her name, me earning $200,000 and her earning $179,000 we have a combined income of $379,000 but we/she can get the rebate because it’s “her house” and she earns below $180K.
If the applicant has a spouse, the combined income of the applicant and the applicant’s spouse must not have exceeded $180,000 for the most recently ended financial year.
In VIC they look at the house "owner". At least that's what I was told few years back. It was even suggested to me to put the house on my wife only.
Are you a gambler…. or till death do us part?
With the house both on my and my wife’s name, me earning $90,000 and her earning $91,000 we have a combined income of $181,000 and we can’t get the rebate.
Didn't you get the memo? That makes you "rich" apparently.
Governments are only interested in helping "normal" families.
With the house only on her name, me earning $200,000 and her earning $179,000 we have a combined income of $379,000 but we/she can get the rebate because it’s “her house” and she earns below $180K.
Makes no difference whose name the house is in. Income is combined once you have a spouse.
In VIC they look at the house "owner". At least that's what I was told few years back. It was even suggested to me to put the house on my wife only.
Opinions aside, those incomes are nearly twice the QLD average income each; and if you do the math excluding the top 1%, almost triple.
Not a commentary on whether or not someone should get a green energy rebate in any way.
Opinions back on; earning nearly double (each) what the average does, some would call 'rich'.
Those are actually BELOW the average QLD income.
AWOTE for QLD is $1,838.10, which comes to $95,581.20 (when multiplied by 52)
@GreenLego: Sorry if I've mispoken; Where are those statistics from?
I was using these statistics:
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-workin…
And while a little older, this can be a handy 'quick reference' too.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-20/are-you-middle-income…
Where 55~65k is within the 50th percentile.
@MasterScythe: Using "average" income as the benchmark for determining who is rich is really, really flawed logic.
The average is skewed by things like semi-retired people who might work one or two days a week, part-time workers only working a few hours a week while kids are at school, young people working a few hours while they study. All of these people submit tax returns. But comparing their incomes to a full time professional worker is not a reasonable comparison.
Also, lower incomes pay basically zero net tax (once you factor in all the benefits they receive) and probably don't have HECS payments coming out of their incomes. How about factoring that into those who you consider "rich".
I'd consider a retire with an income of $45,000/year from their paid off investment properties worth a million, a large amount of Super and who own their own home much "richer" than a 20 something young person on $90,000/year who has a few grand in the bank and a huge HECS loan.
@PainToad: I haven't said who I personally consider is rich; but I'm certainly in the younger category of your example.
I'm just lucky enough to be near a park for free water, and near a library for free charging\internet, and they even rent DVD's for free!
I'm aware I'm very lucky I don't need to pay for those things, all it costs me is a walk, but I was also careful to choose my location based on those resources.
That ensures spare money for hobbies and investments.
Regardless, your point is exactly why the second source, showing percentile of the population, is useful also.
It's only about 7~10k off the median.
@MrFunSocks: Parks near me dont charge for toilets or taps, they're free to use. It even has a bbq in it.
@MasterScythe: So you live in a house yet you go to the park to use the toilet and taps? That seems like far more hassle than it's worth.
@MrFunSocks: Only in summer.
In winter I want hot water.
It's not much hassle at all really. My taxes fund those utilities, why not use them?
Saves me $56 a quarter, and $3 per megalitre.
Be extra worthwhile if you lived in Ipswich, at $80 per quarter for service alone!
@MasterScythe: I use AWOTE, like I stated:
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-workin…
Your link is median, although you said average in your original comment.
And your links are really old.
@GreenLego: Interesting, thanks for the link.
As someone earning below that, it highlights how much disposable income Australians must have.
Yes. Every rule has loop holes. Exploit them. Otherwise be a politician and change the rules.
have a solar photovoltaic (PV) system with a minimum 5kW system capacity.
Would a 5kw inverter qualify or do they count the wattage of the panels?
Well your biggest bang for buck is 6.66kw panels and 5kw inverter.
You should honestly go 9.99kw
Ya but I'm under the old rules 5kw inverter and just under 5kw in panels
I get 44c feed in tarrif
That's your current system? If you get bigger you lose it.
@Korban Dallas: That's why I'm asking if it is inverter based or panels based for the battery rebate
Can I get the battery installed, but not use it? I get a good feed-in rate right now and it's much better to feed-in, rather than store it and use it. But having the battery installed and ready to go when the feed-in rate is reduced will be ideal.
I get a good feed-in rate right now and it's much better to feed-in, rather than store it and use it.
How on earth did you get a feed-in rate, highter than your feed out rate? I thought all those 30c+ grandfathered plans had come to an end now.
While I'm not a specialist at all, I've never seen a house battery system that didn't have an 'off' switch in case of faults or such; so they're unlikely to know if you're using it or not.
I don't know about how I got it, but my feed-in rate is 52 cents, it was 54 but was recently reduced. I've had it since 2008. Usage is 45.375 cents (it was lower but jumped significantly over the past 12 months).
Grandfathered rates. It won't last forever though
Nah I still got it
Ends 2028
From what I've seen previously, good chance that any changes to your system will trigger the pfit to disappear.
Yes, you just turn it off.
Thank you government, the prices will now artificially increase. What a dumb move. Once the 2000 offers are taken up the higher prices will remain for everybody else.
With the current battery costs, the lowest out of pocket cost would be $3k and upwards, correct?
Does that fit with the ROI?
A 5kWh battery stores around $1.50 worth of electricity… So payback 5.5years of you would up all that power at night
How typical would one use up 5kWh every night? What does it take to use up 5kwh?
A small 2-3kw aircon will draw close to 1000w so that’s 5hrs of aircon for a room or two.
@wildstone: My house uses around 400w per hour on standby mode incl fridge, servers, network etc. so over 9 hours I will use 3.6kWh.
OP please mention the eligibility criteria in your post. There is a combined household income limit of $180k for the 3k rebate and 4k for "low income" households wherein the highest income can be $66k.
Typical moronic Qld Government policy…how many people whose primary income is sub 70k can afford a battery, unless they're a retiree living off super / investments with no mortgage.
how many people whose primary income is sub 70k can afford a battery
Barely any - hence providing a $3,000 rebate making it far more achievable
It's only 2000 rebates though, so just another "seen to be doing something" effort by the state government. The reality is 2000 new batteries won't do anything besides enrich a select few companies.
"seen to be doing something" effort by the state government"
The same as making a big song and dance about the few social hosing they've built.
The housing crisis goes much, much deeper than lower socioeconomic groups. People can be full time workers and be living in their cars and they'll never qualify for social housing.
You misunderstand the primary purpose of this limited rebate offer. Aside from good political optics, this is a relatively cheap way to put a several thousand kWh of domestic solar storage on the Qld power grid, and monitor the effects.
Extra storage behind the meter should soak up excess solar energy during the day (hence the requirement for a decent sized solar array) and reduce the evening surge of demand that's typically seen as the sun goes down and solar arrays shut down….smoothing out the duck curve and preventing the wild fluctuation in wholesale pricing during this period.
The secondary effect is building capacity and a little competition among battery suppliers and installers, stimulating this market and hopefully getting prices down so more unsubsidised batteries are installed too. Every kWh that domestic dwellings add takes the pressure off the Qld government's assets, and makes their job easier.
@klaw81: I think it's a little optimistic to infer that 2000 odd Powerwalls (and not every one of the rebated systems will be as big / good as a TPW) will have a material effect on demand or influence the wholesale price during periods of elevated usage. We ought to be demanding more effective & efficient solutions from government, not just giving every bill holder a COL rebate spread over a few quarters, or subsidising a handful of reasonably well off folks to install a battery.
@Ham Dragon: The minimum size battery is eligible under this scheme is 6 kWh x 2000 recipients. It's not a lot, but it's not nothing either. I don't expect it to make any big difference, but it should enough to gather data and understand how well a much larger-scale scheme might work. SA did a similar thing a few years ago, and I understand it was considered a success.
Queensland is also adding community batteries to substations in residential areas all around the state, with similar intentions. I believe they're into the 4th stage of these upgrades to improve reliability and store excess solar energy and offset peak evening loads.
If you have real suggestions on more effective and efficient solutions, I'm sure we'd all love to hear about them.
@klaw81: Gather data, how? There's no obligation to provide information to the state government once you get the money, none at all. There will be no material difference until batteries are as ubiquitous as rooftop solar, and despite the billions poured into subsidising that scheme, electricity is more expensive than ever and we still (allegedly) have issues with the climate. Even then any effect on power prices is questionable. I've always been a proponent of nuclear energy given its lower materials throughput requirements versus renewables. It's cheap, safe and reliable. Unfortunately no one besides fringe parties have the political will to pursue this option.
@Ham Dragon: @The Judge: Electricity networks have constant monitoring at various points, and they know from the approved applications the address at which each of these installations will occur.
electricity is more expensive than ever
Wholesale prices are way down on their historic high levels. Retail pricing has a significant time lag and has various regulatory hurdles.
I've always been a proponent of nuclear energy given its lower materials throughput requirements versus renewables. It's cheap, safe and reliable
It's safe and reliable, I'll grant you that. But it's definitely not cheap. Every review for the past decade has shown that conventional nuclear electricity generation is the most expensive source of electricity available for Australia, while solar / wind and storage are the cheapest.
And even if money was no object and we were happy to throw unlimited money at it, nuclear generation is extremely slow to build. Even if we started building a large nuclear plant today, it couldn't possibly come online until several years after most of our existing coal infrastructure reaches end of life and is shut down.
@klaw81: I would happily take Smiley's cash to bring forward my purchase of a battery, but am ineligible.
@Ham Dragon: I'm not eligible either, but my solar covers my entire power bill anyway so I'm not deeply concerned.
So if u earn above median wage u don’t get rebate? And if u earn less than median surely ur money should be better spent on “cost of living” expenses?
A rebate up to $3,000 is available for applicants with an income of less than $180,000 for the most recently ended financial year.
If the applicant has a spouse, the combined income of the applicant and the applicant’s spouse must not have exceeded $180,000 for the most recently ended financial year.
Median employee earnings was $1,300 per week, up $52 (4.2%) since August 2022.
Median hourly earnings was $39.50 per hour, up $2.50 since August 2022.
Fulltime men were the largest earning cohort at ~1700 p/w .
So even a same sex houshold males at median income would be eligible.
Next they will give ppl earning less than 60k rebate for buying 80k teslas
Nice exaggeration
said no-one except your imagination
They didn't say anyone had said that.
nice. now all i need is a good solar package for the Gold Coast and I can stop tapping into my neighbours electricity
Any idea as to installation costs - assuming I get the $4k rebate what is my likely personal outlay up front - I would be looking to buy cheapest eligible battery
This reminded me of the Utopia episode in season 5 :D
I can see afew mates who have minimal wage on paper but expenses everything off their business and drives brand new x5 benefiting off this.
Does anyone know how much a battery is on average? I don't want to add my details to a quote form and get hounded by solar companies for the next 12 months.
Tesla Powerwall 2 is about $12k installed, obviously this might vary due to factors specific to your property.
Wouldn't it be better if the government spent the money on investing in communal battery technology so that a lot of people could benefit from it rather than just a few people who can afford it? Even with the rebates, the RoI period is still pretty high. If you could afford $10K to install a battery system, then there's a high chance you could probably afford $14K (original cost).
They're doing this already, best of both worlds.
How does the government know if it's been installed at the right address?
(I.e. using retiree parents to purchase system on behalf)
Nmi
Also when the government appointed safety inspector comes to certify the installation they're going to realise that something isn't quite right.
Why can't your parents just give you the money as a "gift" before the installation start date?
Or is that you and your partner earn over $180,000 and are trying to be a bit greedy?
So how much will we be out of pocket?
The full price of your quote from your installer for your particular install, minus the rebate.
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned how small the program is. 2,000 installations is absolutely nothing.
Energy thing with heat pumps had heaps left over
You would still get better “bang for buck” getting a bigger solar system - assuming you have the roof space. I recently upgrade mine. 10kw and it turns over a profit month to month now.
Can you give me some more info about your upgrade? I called my installer and they said they’d only install a parallel system, not upgrade the existing.
Sorry. Upgrade was probably a bad use of words. What I meant was having a second system installed, like you mentioned in parallel to the existing/older system.
All good, still interesting to know.
any rebates for solar panels?
Yes, all around Australia for over a decade. They're called STCs or small technology credits. In virtually 100% of residential installations installations, these are signed over to the installer and reduce the out of pocket expense of the system by several thousand dollars.
Most of the time assigned to the supplier? That's the case with heat pumps. Probs get ripped off if you get it from the installer.
Also make sure they are qualified.
A PITA Energex in QLD doesn't allow more one 10kW Inverter on a single phase and they count batteries as inverters. I deliberately put a 10kW system on a few years ago knowing this would come back and annoy me one day 😂
What's PITA
![[QLD] Solar Battery Rebate Scheme - $4000 Rebate if Highest Income <$66,667, $3000 Rebate if Combined Income <$180,000 @ QLD Gov](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/34/831034.jpg?h=0d5bad93)
@rooster7777: The ROI will be different for different people. That's why each individual needs to do their own calcs.