Trading Airline Points: Increased Account Suspensions?

lucyrenegade on 25/01/2024 - 23:55
Last edited 26/01/2024 - 00:42 by 1 other user

Hi classified community,

I have traded Qantas and Virgin points in the classified. I was aware of the T&Cs and the possibility that my accounts would be suspended. My Velocity account was suspended in November, and now my Singapore account has been suspended with Virgin reclaiming the points that I had traded.

I have spoken to a few of the OzBers I traded with, and some of their accounts have also been suspended. I have noticed several recent posts about account suspensions. I wanted to begin a conversation around this topic to see if others have been suspended. Do we need to consider that maybe the airlines have become more aware of these trades and that the risk of account suspension is increasing?

Cheers,
LucyRenegade

• 

  ozbargainerlife1 on 26/01/2024 - 00:11

  How often did you trade? number of points you traded? did you have recurring transfers to one/multiple accounts?

  • 

    lucyrenegade on 26/01/2024 - 10:49

    I traded about 6 times in the year, trading Qantas to Virgin points and immediately converting them to Singapore points. I traded a lot of points, about 500k Qantas.

    • 

      ozbargainerlife1 on 26/01/2024 - 11:46

      Was it same people or different everytime? Did qantas also ban?

      • 

        lucyrenegade on 26/01/2024 - 12:29

        Different people. No ban from Qantas. I was banned from Virgin and Singapore. I can still access my account on my phone, and I saw that Virgin took back some of the points.

• 

  Tee Rex Arms on 26/01/2024 - 00:15

  -3

  Good.

  • 

    idonotknowwhy on 26/01/2024 - 12:01

    Why is that? Because your super is invested in Qantas or something?

    • 

      Tee Rex Arms on 26/01/2024 - 12:13

      -3

      Because the programs are not designed for rorting

      • 

        eccaz on 26/01/2024 - 13:53

        They clearly are

      • 

        idonotknowwhy on 26/01/2024 - 15:44

        -1

        That's right, they're designed to gather and sell your data. And if you don't opt into them, you're subsidizing those who do. Same with woolworths/coles programs, etc.

        They're also trying to lock you in to using the same airline/store/hotel all the time even if there are better deals around.

        It makes me happy to see random ozbargainers outsmart these (profanity).

• 

  p1 ama on 26/01/2024 - 00:31

  +6

  What's happened is that someone who's likely been trading a lot of points on OzBargain got busted, and as such, like how a drug bust works, everyone connected to that person, then everyone connected to those people, and so on, have also been busted as well. There was a thread on here on here not that long ago discussing this.

  FWIW, trading points is not allowed under the T&Cs of the programs. I personally have no issues with people who choose to do it, but it does come with a risk, and engaging in points trading is an active choice to take on that risk. Just like going to the casino, sometimes you lose.

  That said, my personal view is that airline loyalty schemes in Australia are all a shambles. Even as a frequent flyer, you could fly every week and still not earn as much in a year as signing up to a new credit card. The rewards schemes do not actually reward loyal frequent flyers. Unsurprising because with an almost monopoly, Qantas has loyalty by default, so their incentive is just to continue issuing points to devalue the points, which is why you have these silly credit card sign-on bonuses.

  Yes, it does allow people who never fly to get business class rewards seats, but overall it devalues the program for the frequent flyers and long time loyalists.

• 

  trotsky on 26/01/2024 - 00:33

  +1

  The reason you got picked up is because the people you traded with got caught (or vice versa) The airlines start with something they can reasonably expect is a violation and work backwards from there and that makes sense as if you catch someone trading points there is a high chance the other people they traded with are also trading points. It's not really a sign that the surveillance has picked up, that would be if people you haven't traded with were getting caught at a higher rate.

  The problem with ozb is that this place is a real life tragedy of the commons. Noone here treads lightly. People are rarely ever going to make just one trade. Before you know it they're on the airlines radar and a ton of ozb'ers are banned.

  • 

    MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 00:52

    +2

    OzBargain /ɒz'bær'gɪn/ n.

    OzBargain is Australia's bargain hunting community, where hot deals, coupon codes, vouchers, special promotions and freebies are shared everyday.

    A real life tragedy of the commons.

    FTFY scotty

• 

  ihfree on 26/01/2024 - 01:04

  Trade with this thread's author by any chance Qantas Account Suspended?

  • 

    Outrageous on 26/01/2024 - 01:13

    Nope, OP has never traded with me directly. No one I've traded with has had their accounts suspended (as far as I know).

  • 

    lgacb08 on 27/01/2024 - 12:10

    That case is different, not selling point so it's harder to punish the person using the service other than cancelling their bookings.

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  bk1973 on 26/01/2024 - 01:08

  I just wonder how much the upside to trading/selling/buying is compared to the downside. Sure, it may be mutually beneficial to both parties. Consider the added benefit to each relative to the threat of losing ALL of your points, how does that compare? I had a situation once about 10 years ago where a non-Aussie airline caught me trading an upgrade voucher for a flight credit $$. There was the potential of suspending my freq flyer account and losing a LOT of points, but it didn't go that far. To me at least, this was a teachable moment.

  • 

    p1 ama on 27/01/2024 - 19:55

    The vast majority of people who are trading are not actually earning the points through flying. They are simply just churning credit card sign up bonuses and trying to make a quick buck.

• 

  Outrageous on 26/01/2024 - 01:09

  -1

  Yeah happened to me recently with Qantas. I got a bit wreckless (used the same account repeatedly) and got busted.

• 

  Lunarboogie on 26/01/2024 - 07:29

  +3

  These stings come and they go. There are still plenty of people trading. If you transfer points, there's a greater risk of getting nabbed because the airlines can monitor the flow and account names. Then you're gone as they'll have the personal details listed in each account and can data match.

  It's less risky to simply redeem flights for points buyers like Brunobear (some of whom purchase for a living and have a higher risk of detection). Points won't leave your account and there is no way for the airlines to prove you have a link to folk like Bruno. Qantas can't check your bank accounts.

  Once you receive the cash and book the tickets for someone else (usually a PRC customer from my experience), you list them as your cousin and then qantas has to prove that this isn't the case - while having no info on the PRC customer other than their bio data. Much harder to do.

  In today's multicultural Australia where one in two were born overseas or have a parent that was, Qantas has no way of disproving any familial relationship that might span the globe. I'm not Chinese but I was once asked by Qantas why I had so many cousins from Guangzhou and so I gave them a cock and bull story that went back to the civil war there, White Russians and Shanghai during WW2 and Qantas had no choice but to accept it. It took good while to research the story though and then get the dates aligned but it was no sweat. Qantas isn't ASIO.

  • 

    p1 ama on 27/01/2024 - 19:56

    Once you receive the cash and book the tickets for someone else (usually a PRC customer from my experience), you list them as your cousin and then qantas has to prove that this isn't the case - while having no info on the PRC customer other than their bio data. Much harder to do.

    This is not true - if questioned, you have to prove to Qantas that you two are related.

    • 

      Lunarboogie on 27/01/2024 - 22:22

      I didn't say Qantas wouldn't question the family link. My point is if you come from the developing world like many Australians do, how can anyone prove familial connections, with different surnames and languages, half siblings (and therefore half first cousins but still a cousin in most cultures) and the absence of birth and/or marriage certificates. This isn't an episode of 'Who do you think you are'. In my case, I just explained an invented family link and that was that. What else can Qantas do - demand a blood test?

      • 

        p1 ama on 28/01/2024 - 00:24

        What else can Qantas do - demand a blood test?

        Suspend your account and cancel your bookings.

        The reality is that as we've seen time and time again, loyalty / rewards points are not cash, and the owners (in this case, Qantas) can realistically do whatever they want if they believe that you've breached the T&Cs of their program.

        You were lucky that your story worked, but it's not necessarily going to work for others.

        I'm not discouraging point trading, simply being transparent about what the risks are for those who want to engage in it.

      • 

        Outrageous on 28/01/2024 - 01:02

        -1

        You put that story on a stat dec?
        In the absence of birth/marriage certificates it seems that's the only other documentary 'evidence' they will accept.

        • 

          Lunarboogie on 28/01/2024 - 09:25

          @Outrageous: Maybe I was lucky but I was just recounting what happened to me. If my name was John Smith I probably would have had a different experience, so it will be different for everyone. In my case. I didnt have to do a stat dec. If so, I wouldn’t have gone through with it.

• 

  Ocker on 26/01/2024 - 08:24

  +1

  The rules are very clear. If you break those rules then be prepared to pay the price. Just learn your lesson and move on.

  • 

    lucyrenegade on 26/01/2024 - 10:50

    Yes, I understand - that's the plan.

• 

  Dollar General on 26/01/2024 - 09:03

  Bitcoin fixes this…….somehow

• 

  Wiadro on 26/01/2024 - 09:59

  ooops

• 

  ozbargainerlife1 on 26/01/2024 - 11:45

  Can yoi have 2 accounts?

  • 

    MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 21:06

    @yoi - do you want 2 accounts?

  • 

    lucyrenegade on 26/01/2024 - 12:30

    I did that with the Qantas account. My account -> legit family -> trading. I didn't do that with Virgin points.

  • 

    trotsky on 26/01/2024 - 13:22

    While this is clever, you'd want to wait a while if you had previously been trading with your main account as they'd likely start going through past transactions there, too

• 

  dwarves on 26/01/2024 - 19:39

  I have seen no evidence of extra scrutiny. As others have said, I suspect it's just the same issues as it's always been - overtrade, or trade with someone who does, and you're a higher risk of being flagged. If it's a one-off for both parties then I perceive the risk to be extremely low.