A Majority and a Minority Shareholder Siblings in a Business Having an Issue

Hi all

Will appreciate your views. (May edit this for grammar/ readability later)

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A friend (Mr Y) entered into a shareholding arrangement with their elder brother (Mr X - who happens to be 10 years senior and old school in ways)

X was seeking funds to start a business and Y offered to enter. Y thought this a fantastic opportunity as there would be absolute good faith and trust between brothers and that this arrangement is a non brainer deal.

X has 70% shares whilst Y has 30%

Both X & Y have rights to inspect business accounts/ finance record and be a seperate bank signatory.

X would be running the business day to day whilst Y has the option to do the same or be passive (Y opted the latter)

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10-11 months down the line - it has occurred to Y that X is running the business in questionable means (such as mixing personal finances with business finances using the company bank account; such as there are a lot of unexplainable losses (since everything is sold at a profit); such as changing his mind on when dividens may be payable; such as repeatedly lying or not keeping word; such as not sharing company accounting data/ performance etc when requested (and if shared it’s in an incomplete questionable manner)

Upon realising this, Y decides (with X knowledge/ consent) to prepare with a lawyer a shareholder agreement since Y didn’t think one is required from the onset (since both are brothers and would have the best interest and trust of the other)

Y, upon presenting X with the shareholder agreement doc, and days later requesting for the shareholder agreement draft feedback - X decided out of no where that they can’t “work together” anymore and wants to buy Y out of the business.

Y, shocked to learn this, feels betrayed by X. And refuses to be bought out/ refuses to sell their shares.

Y proclaims to X that Y has not benefited anything from the business (and only X did to date). If X doesn’t want to work things out, then X should liquidate the business and both go separate ways.

Y accuses X for being non transparent and not able to keep to their word. X accuses Y for being difficult to work with (and finds Y to be too questionable/ distrusting)

X instead comes back to Y and offers that the way out is for X to sell their share to Y instead, following an audit of the company. however Y doesn’t want to by X out.

X then just goes silent/ refuses to engage further and basically proceed to ghost/ ignore Y.

Y is frustrated but decides to did a a little onto whatever he can find. Y upon digging into public records of the company - finds out that the company still states the that 100% shares belongs to X. Y does not share this fact with X - at least not yet.

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What rights to you think Y has in this situation and what can the do should to protect themselves?

Y feels like he’s being squeezed or frozen out of the business unfairly and unjustifiably. Y invested this business in good faith and trust in X - and counted on having this business as a means to passive income.

Y also hesitates to sue X because it will devastate the family ties of the larger family of both X & Y

Y feels the business is potentially lucrative and seems to on the upward trend despite the incomplete or shady records.

Y feels that they will miss out if they withdraw or be coerced out from the business. Y feels that they should persevere with the matter at hand in the interest of reaping the business benefits later - that maybe the situation may improve with time off for both X & Y from each other.

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Y is asking how to proceed forward and What would be their rights?

What do you think is happening here in this situation?
What would you do if you were Y in this situation?

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My suggested Poll options (please add if you think of any helpful ones)

  1. Y to sue X regardless to consequences of family bond and claim their original investment (since Y isn’t registered by X in public records as a shareholder.)

  2. Y to back out and accept loses as a result of audit. (Y feels they will resent themselves as time goes because of this decision.)

  3. Y to back off for now and wait to see what X does. If X doesn’t really want Y, then X should take care of the matter.

  4. Other (please chime in and suggest)

Poll Options

  • 5
    1.
  • 4
    2.
  • 1
    3.
  • 9
    4.

Comments

  • +1

    If it's brothers and Y wants in still, then X should propose to Y that Y becomes a ghost partner with no say in the business at all and have their 30% put in writing. Then if the business is ever sold, Y will get his 30%, if there's dividends and X gets $70,000 then Y will get $30,000. Why should X care at all if Y gets his 30% of profits. Y can inspect the books at his own expense without interfering with the business to make sure he isn't getting screwed. Y made his investment and should be able to enjoy the benefits of that. It wasn't a loan, it was a cash investment for a share of the business. X should be happy for his brother to profit from his investment, that 30% investment helped the business grow, and I'm sure Y did offer some kind of value when managing it. Should probably get a lawyer to write a standard agreement with no loopholes that would let X screw Y, like rolling all profits into a salary for X or somewhere else that indirectly benefits X over Y.

    • +3

      What's the guarantee that X won't misuse funds for personal gain?

      I have minority shareholdings in several companies and I often feel I should have circumvented the inevitable and given upper management Dan Murphy's gift cards.

      There sometimes appears to be a mindset of "I started this venture and I'll do what I want with the capital"

      • Y has legal rights as a shareholder. And obviously Ys concerns can't be that great if he doesn't want to be bought out and wishes to keep his investment.

        • Legal rights cost money. Some of your "legal rights" mean jack depending on the company structure.

          Here's an example: One of the companies I had $5k invested in was wound up last FY. The liquidators made a decision that anyone that had invested less than $50k would get nothing. >$50k got a few cents in the dollar.

  • +5

    X is mis-managing the money. How long do you think the business will last? He's either going to tank the business or get into legal trouble and take his kid brother down with him.
    Get bought out, and be on good terms with your brother again. Family shouldn't be in business together. I'm sure some can make it work but it's asking for trouble.

    • -3

      I think I got X and Y mixed up in my answer. But still whoever mismanaged it for the last 10 months I'd let bygones be bygones (on account of them being brothers), have the business ran properly from now on, and have Mr 30% be an inactive partner. Mr 30% can enjoy the benefit of part ownership of a business while freeing his body and mind for anything else he wants to do in life.

      Have the business ran properly through third party oversight of the books/spending. There's no reason why they can't just forget the past mistakes and let Mr 30% keep his 30% if it's so important to him. Whatever mismanagement one of them committed when running it can't add up to much money if the business is still so healthy that both want to participate.

  • +7

    This whole situation seems really foolish by Y, if you are going to invest in a business why would you not get solicitors involved to draw up the company dealings making 100% certain you actually own 30% off the business before investing any money. Also stipulating how Y would be paid and how much of the profits would he draw from.

    It seems like this whole situation has bitten him in the butt, if I was him I would be happy to get my money back, especially since it sounds like there is no proper contracts or paperwork involved, it might be all verbal.

    Even if the business is profitable, if X is taking advantage of Y then any trust is broken, get out while you can.

  • +10

    "X decided out of no where that they can’t “work together” anymore and wants to buy Y out of the business."

    Perfect!

    Take the money and get out while you can. If you want to dig your heels in and cry about losses instead of paying for a life lesson you might be in for an even harder one if you don't take the offer while you can.

    "Y, shocked to learn this, feels betrayed by X. And refuses to be bought out/ refuses to sell their shares."

    Pride and emotions, the cause of so much suffering.

    "If X doesn’t want to work things out, then X should liquidate the business and both go separate ways."
    "Y feels the business is potentially lucrative and seems to on the upward trend despite the incomplete or shady records."

    Is that reasonable?
    If you feel the business is lucrative then why not buy your brother out and run it yourself?

    Oh, right, "X would be running the business day to day whilst Y has the option to do the same or be passive (Y opted the latter)

    Maybe you should have opted the former? So basically you didn't want a part in running the business, you wanted your brother to do it all so you can reap the benefits even though all you did was contribute some capital. OK you should be entitled to something in return for your investment but not as much as the guy who put in 70% of the capital and did all the work.

    In summary, I guess you both had the same parents? :)

  • +1

    as there would be absolute good faith and trust between brothers and that this arrangement is a non brainer deal.

    Both are idiots. There is a very old saying….

    There are no friends in business

    FFS.

  • +1

    Mmm, is the business incorporated/ a company?

    If not, it’s going to be a very hard road as from what I understand there is no real separation between business and personal assets (other than tax implications really).

    If it’s incorporated that’s easy. A director of the company’s mismanaging funds - so a threat of legal action and jail time should straighten up Mr X

  • +3

    Will X & Y abide by the results of this poll?

  • Sounds like the poor vacuum salesman having a rich friend named Ian.
    Ian lends the money, and the poor man finds a false dog and rips off the public.
    That dog even gets to teach at Sydney Uni how to cheat with a false name in economics studies…

    Now poor Ozbb users have to pay GST on small items…

  • +1

    I would laugh at both of them and let them swallow the consequences of their poor choices

  • +2

    Foren$ic Accountant.

  • Nice choice of letters. Takes me back to high school maths class.

  • +5

    Lol.

    This is typically what a law assignment or take-home exam would look like and you did not even bother to rephrase the last part where the question "Y is asking how to proceed forward and What would be their rights?". Takes me back to those days, so yeah, I am going to help partially but not write your whole assignment.

    What is relevant is constructive trust (to identify if they are a member for s 234), section 234 and 233 of corporations act. Note there is no reason why Y can buy out X, but ask yourself would the court grant that, source some cases. What remedy does Y want and does it remove the oppression? That is where the marks are.

    As to why the Corporations Act is relevant, it states company bank account, so the structure is given in the question even though I see someone mentioned it in the comments… A one man company is allowed, i.e. one director and one shareholder who is the same person.

    In reality, things are different. It could be a loan or gift by the elder brother. People can lie. All sorts of stuff. Is payment to Y from X using a personal account? Why does that evidence show that, does it suggest a gift or loan repayment? Is Y lying? It could be so, because maybe he has fallen on hard times but he gifted money to the younger brother at an earlier date…

    Also in practice, my opinion would be that you need to establish and gain the shares back before you commenced proceedings under the Corporations Act, otherwise you would not satisfy s 234, you need to research that if you are doing it in real life. I could just imagine the judge throwing it out for not meeting the requirements for standing. There is a definition in s 9 for member and also for company, if that is relevant.

    • +2

      Once you establish beneficial ownership of the shares this sounds like a pretty textbook oppression case.
      The typical orders sought in such a case are:
      X buys out Y
      Y buys out X
      (in both cases with valuations based on removal of the oppressive conduct), or
      the company be wound up on the just and equitable ground.
      However, involving lawyers in a scenario like this is bound to be complicated, time consuming, and expensive. If it can be resolved without that, then you are much better off.

  • +3

    X is fleecing Y due to Y's naivety.

    X is clearly a dodgy business person (based on your essay) and even though Y feels the business is potentially lucrative, the key word here is potentially. And with X fudging the numbers the best way forward is for X to buy out Y. The figure (obviously) should at least be what Y had initially invested. If X wants to keep the peace then a bit of interest wouldn't hurt.
    Y should just take this as a life lesson and be glad he/she is out of the crazy arrangement.

    Get. Out. Now.

    If X isn't willing to pay back Y the initial investment, then sue.

  • +3

    Y should ask for his original investment back and put it down to experience.

  • -1

    Ah the good ol’ “agreement between friends”.

    Y thought he was going to make some easy money.
    X had a dream and realised it was much harder than anticipated + no integrity.

    Y’s best decision is probably to walk away and accept the loss and take the hard lesson. I doubt X has the money to pay out on any civil law suit and Y will have to spend more time and money to get any outcome that probably won’t be the outcome they hope for.

    Y could give an ultimatum for the original investment money (or a portion of the original money) back or end of the relationship. That being said, X could argue that it was an equity risk that Y took on and therefore they should bear the loss which is kind of fair….Y didn’t do their due diligence properly!

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