According to this survey:
https://www.wemoney.com.au/financial-wellness-survey
Maybe I'm just in privileged position but l I find this very hard to believe. Is it really that bad out there where people are not able to save much?
48.4% of Australians Live Paycheck to Paycheck
mrvaluepack on 11/01/2024 - 11:01
Comments
What's wrong with tap water?
People surviving on tap water and two minute noodles would be terrible for the economy. That's why I think the government should get me into a house - so I can finally splash the cash.
But if you save money on buying 2 minute noodles and tap water you can go and have a $600 steak.
Other surveys have it at 60%
The best bit was where you also linked to such 'other' surveys.
yes true some people with proper office job but never see $10k on their bank account . (not because all in property offset accounts! they are renting, simply cant save)
I think people can still save while renting. Say you're young, single with no kids, earning $70k per year. After tax you would be left with $57k. That's about $1100 per week. Then, say you rent a median property for $515 per week, and get a flatmate to pay half. That means rent costs you $257.50 per week. You're left with $842.50 per week. After food and bills, you would definitely have a fair bit left to save.
yes totally of course can. but i said most (that i know in that context) cant. probably they think gov is there to help so just live your life (from payday to payday)
I think you're in the wrong country? Or are you a weird bot or something?
Dunno about that, sounds more like you were testing chems…
It's cute you think actual humans aren't also pointing out how idiotic your comments are.
President Biden lives rent-free in your head and you're not even a yank? What a sad, sad existence you live.
You're still too popular lol (unless you're using the American vernacular "liberals" in which case, another shudder from me)
From the same survey:
"The future of finance is upon us with Crypto and NFTs (42.6%) being more popular than traditional Stocks (36.7%)."
"29.9% believe that Crypto will replace traditional finance."
We are doomed.
I hope this survey was taken at the peak of links to monkey JPEG mania, otherwise we're truly stuffed going forward.
Well to be fair, the survey could just be biased towards people with low financial understanding. That would check out with the living pay check to pay check and thinking crypto is the future.
There's been a number of studies that show that people on low incomes tend to spend more on lotteries and the like than other groups. For someone on a low income, they don't see themselves as getting out of that situation unless they do win the lottery or get a 100x gain from crypto. Otherwise barely paying off bills feels like it'll never lead to significant savings.
The irony is these low income people are often the ones that pile into crypto after the easy gains are made and the price has gone up. They may squeak out a few dollars in profit, but more often than not they become the bag holders when the price crashes. Then they develop a full time job spamming forums with HODL messages.
Living paycheck-to-paycheck and spending all my money on pretty random numbers and very expensive URL links. 😎
Median personal income: $54,890 = takehome: 45,662.60
Median rent: $500pw = $26,000
Remaining income after rent: $19,662.80
Now try paying for food, transport, insurance and bills with $378pw and see how much is left to save.Is that personal rent or household rent?
Let alone if you got kids and or pets
I see far too many low-income household with 5+ kids & pets.
I am relatively middle dual income household with two young kids and stressed as is. Idk how those 4+ and what looks like a small zoo of animals do it…
@Jimothy Wongingtons: Same (kinda) still have the SD on from last night.
Might go something lighter before lunch.@Speckled Jim: how nice would a SRPK50J be to change into before lunch and ease gently into a lazy friday - monday morning 7.59am write-off.
@Jimothy Wongingtons: Chance'd be a fine thing. A fine thing indeed!
Such is this cost of living crisis, my last watch purchase was under $10.
Permalink to cement my shame for people from the future.
@Speckled Jim: good choice, speaking of f91 homage i have also been toying with idea of buying some skmei version of the f91..just because so damn cheap.
actually your one has a metal band too…this seems almost TOO CHEAP lol
@Jimothy Wongingtons: There's silver and both gold tones too. It was just a cheapie for the wife to wear while cycling.
I put a canvas on, it's now just 18 grams!Considered a SKMEI for the purpose, but look at the topic man. Times is tough!
Keep in mind that same family is also receiving family assistance for 5 kids. So they also draw that annual income on top of a wage as long as they qualify.
a friend (landlord) got an application from potential tenant with wife and kids.
they said oh i wish your property has 2 car spaces i have 2 cars
(and yeah, they are low income earner)
Dont have pets if you cant afford then.
Rent/mortgage is the biggest problem. But for everything else, if you are smart with your money, you can live very well on less than 20k a year. I do and don't feel I am missing out on anything. Helps to have Ozbargainer mindset for sure.
That is good to know :)
Out of interest, how much of that 20k are you able to save?It depends. My income is all over the place because I am self employed and enjoy the flexibility and control that allows. I just save what I can and don't worry too much. Avoid debt, buy cars outright, invest what I can in shares or leave in HISA. I see so many people wasting money on stupid things like $4 can of coke at the checkout, $25 lunch meals etc. I don't do that. Would rather shop for nice ingredients and cook at home, i've got all the gear and have the time to do so. I am not missing out on anything because I have time to enjoy my hobbies, seek out the best deals, learn how to fix things myself etc. I can't imagine working a 9 to 5 job at all, there's no time for life.
You mention being smart with your money. But everyone is different and wired differently. Some of us are good with money but can't cook. I can cook but I'm no good with cars. Some who are good with cars can also cook but are not good with money. To expect everyone to be smart with money is unreasonable. And OP shouldn't sound so shocked.
To expect everyone to be smart with money is unreasonable.
I disagree.
You don't have to be a chef, nor a mechanic, nor a financial advisor, but everyone should have basic financial literacy, everybody should be able to cook a roast or a few basic dishes, everybody should be able to change a tyre and check their oil.
Being financially negligent isn't just some innate human heredity lottery, it's a lack of education, and similar to the inability to read or write, will make life very hard.
I'm with ssfps (bravo, just rolls off the tongue btw) as there's an acceptable level of competency achievable by most people.
It's okay to be a jack-of-all and master-of-none. One doesn't have to excel in any given area. We all have our limits!
Unfortunately a lot of people out there seem to think services like uber eats/having your food delivered to you is a "necessity", so I'm not surprised if this many people live paycheck to paycheck.
Budgeting isn't taught in schools, but it should be.
Median is like 70k, the R/Australia welfare invasion in full swing here.
It's strange. On forums like OzBargain, AusFinance and Whirlpool I regularly see posts such as: "I earn $200,000 a year", "I earn $260,000 a year", "I earn $450,000 a year", "I retired at 48 and live off all the income generated by my investment properties", "I have flown to the United States 49 times in the past 5 years"; … Extemely expensive high end items get lots of upvotes and clickthroughs on OzBargain, such as $12,000 graphics cards or EBikes. It really does seem like everyone in Australia in rich (upper class and upper middle class) and that poor people (battlers) have become extinct in Australia.
Yet the statistics reveal that a lot of Australian, perhaps even the majority, aren't rolling in money and will probably still be poor by the time they retire. My question is, where are all these poor people? Don't they use the internet? They seem to be invisible. I seem to be the only person in Australia who is advocating for the proletariat and yearning to wage class warfare on the top end of town.
"Now try paying for food, transport, insurance and bills with $378pw and see how much is left to save." Also, some poor people have a lot of health problems and have to pay for multiple medications, doctor and specialist gap fees, non-prescription health products. They are in an even worse position than poor able bodied Australians.
The cure to this situation is simple: socialism. "“The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Proletarians of All Countries, Unite!”"
OzBargain is a bubble, with a very small cross-section of the population who:
- Are careful and thoughtful with their money (enough to frequent a bargain-hunting website) AND
- Spend time reading and writing comments online (there's a small minority of Australians who can't read at all, and a much bigger proportion who never read anything they don't have to) AND
- Have free time with a phone or computer (lots of office jobs, IT people, etc… fewer 12-hour shift workers, exhausted retail/server people, etc)
There are still plenty of threads from people with low incomes, but people are less likely to talk about salary if theirs is low.
I work 13 hour shifts. I just ozbargain in the other 11 hours.
That's true, there are some bargains here that are relevant to lower income people, food, electricity deals, cheap streaming services via regional pricing, free computer games and android software, free ebooks (though as you mention many lower class people have little interest in reading). But many times I think people on OzBargain simply buy things because they are on sale and they have more disposible income than they know what to do with. They will probably use the product once them put it into storage.
I'm not like this. I have at any time a list of certain things I want or need, and wait until until deal relating to that particular product comes up. A simple example is the gaviscon I use for my reflux; I wait until there is a Chemist Warehouse cashback promotion to stock up. I wishlist PC games on Steam and have gg.deals read my wishlist and inform me about when wishlisted games get heavily discounted (I am willing to wait until games drop to $5 USD, though somethings this never happens).
Hospitality, retail, aged care…
aged care? check again coz i have a friend who makes 150k on aged care (nurse)
Plenty of people do and many by choice..
There's no failure if someone prefers to work less and live more, or chooses a job they enjoy but which doesn't pay much. I'd rather live on my own terms than suck it up and join the 9 to 5 rat race. Money is just not that important to me. As long as I can cover a basic standard of living and travel every now and then, i'll take freedom and autonomy over more $ in the bank anyday.
Spot on mate, I work the least amount of hours possible to cover expenses and some luxuries.
Eg: Rather knock off an hour early and have 2 minute noodles for dinner than work an extra hour and have steak for dinner.
work less and live more? the only way to live more is to have passive income so you can live more, how does earning 55k a year allow you to live more when its a the same 40hr work week as the other guy who is earning 120k a year?
Some industries just aren’t well paid. There are industries where people with 10+ years experience in senior positions are on around 60k.
i just feel for those people, i mean nothing is stopping them from doing a few short tafe courses and earning more, but i guess some people are content with the bare minimum, 60k a year in 2024 in sydney is bottom of the barrel pay
@Roe Jogan: It’s not always that easy. I know someone who is quite good in their industry, and is in a senior position in the company, and still gets about 60k. That is about the cap in that industry. But it’s the type of industry people work in because they love it, and the only way to get more money is to change industries. So they just get trapped forever on a low salary.
Is 2021 a representative year?
In any case, its a misleading (even if true) statement - the majority of younger people live pay check to pay check, as probably all of us did when we were young and in our 20s. What proportion of this 48% are in that category? Then as you get a bit older, your income goes up, your stability increases and you understand how to control your spending, you start to move away from pay cheque to pay cheque.
The categories are not broken down by age but the income categories where more than 25% households are living pay to pay are limited to households with under $100k income. Minimum wage is $45k per year, so its households with one income earner or 2 x minimum wage earners or with part time workers. You just have to expect that if you are in those categories then you wont have much money left over.
Others are paying off big mortgages which, agree, can mean at the end of the fortnight you dont have much cash left, but you have equity (wealth vs income)
There will, of course, always be some who never break out of this category for many reasons - low skills, health issues, unemployment, inability to budget/handle money, taking on too much debt without understanding the consequences. But many will, over time as they get older, move out of this situation.
I would have thought it would be worse now with inflation.
2021 had almost 4 million people on JobKeeper
I could also easily get a quality loaf of bread for like $2 back then. Now? $3.5-$4 that's 75% to 100% increase in 3 years. I can tell you while my salary has gone up, it certainly hasn't gone up 75% to 100% in that time.
Low employment rates are not a good indication of how our people are doing when wages are like 20 years behind inflation.
@ceroau: I guess if most of your budget is spent on bread, then you ate correct
However you aren’t correct that real wages have fallen over the last 20 years. They have fallen over the past couple of years, but over the last 20 years are well ahead of inflation https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook47p/TrendsWageMovement#:~:text=1%202022%2D23%20show%20wage,the%20CPI%20in%202022–23.&text=Source%3A%20Australian%20Bureau%20of%20Statistics,Canberra%3A%20ABS%2C%202022).
@dtc: I never said anything about falling anything in the last 20 years. I said "wages are", implying present, are 20 years behind inflation. The 20 years was also obviously an exaggeration but in the real world not a statistical analysis (Controlled by the very people who put us in this shit show) it is easy to observe that for the Average Joe their wages are well behind the "inflation" we've experienced in recent years. It obvious to almost anyone that current cost to maintain a reasonable quality of life in this country is beyond the reach for those even at or beyond the stated Median income in this country and unless something changes that trend will only continue.
Achieving endless exponential Growth in an infinite system (Capitalism) in a finite world (Planet earth, you may have heard of it) is a fundamentally flawed system for basically anyone who isn't in the 1% and eventually everyone will be impacted by it as a point is reached where there simply isn't enough scraps for their
slaves, sorry I mean their work force to live off, let alone give them the energy required to work.Those in control, those with the power already know this, they are just either counting on being long dead when that comes to pass or that our AI, Robotics and automation get advanced enough that the technology can build and maintain itself resulting in those in power no longer needing their
human slaves, I mean human workforce.
Who gets paid by cheque these days?
Was by by check before or after cash in a yellow envelope my grandmother told me about?
I remember getting paid cash in an envelope at best and less in the early 00's. good times.
I remember getting one from an Italian restaurant back in 2018 that was about $60 short of what I was owed
I save around 15%-20% of my income a month whilst renting - but that's because my rent is currently only $460/week.
dats cheap!
location, location, location?
.Minchinbury NSW
I thought about this recently and thought I would look into it. This data is from 2021 but sheds more light on it.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1315199/australia-share-…
If you look at the annual household incomes it makes sense. Anybody that has a half decent income does not live week to week but I'm sure for many of us, if our entire household income was less than 60k we might struggle to save money.
I think you will find WeMoney study is wrong or misleading. I think it would be closer to 50% of people who's household earns below 50k. To me, this idea makes more sense.
Yup I believe it 100%…
People have signed themselves up to the neck on rent/mortgage/ loans that they are drowning.. Lady in our sydney office is paying close to 700/wk rent… take that and a car payment, food and kids expenses… not much left
2 couples here at work took the keys to their houses just before it hit the fan… I can tell you 100% that one couple with 2 incomes they are in deep shit.
Pay hasn't kept up with inflation for eon's..
If your not highly skilled your in shit… peeps also cant afford to take time off work to go learn new skills adding the stupid costs involved in some courses, they just cant afford it.
Dunno about you guys, but in tough times like these, I live paycheck to paycheck….
…..Gotta be able to afford my $600 steak ;)
Where did you find steak for only $600? Wanna share the coupons with the rest of us?
i gotta know…did you get the soup or the salad
It might be bad for your health being so frugal mate. Better watch out ;)
Living paycheck to paycheck doesn't mean someone is poor. Someone on $300k per year may struggle to save after making repayments on their large house, holiday house, luxury car and credit card which is full of expenses for international holidays, designer clothes and fine dining meals.
Yes, gotta keep it in perspective. If the pay is going to cover the loan on their lambo's and porche's every month and not have any savings leftover, thats still considered living paycheck to paycheck.
Yeah by the term living paycheck to paycheck, lambo owners come to mind first. Definitely. Yeah 40 percent of the population have lambos in this case i reckon.
Doesnt even need to be all that stuff. Im on a little less than that (250k), and its just the "median house on the Gold Coast" which is making us live "almost" paycheck to paycheck. No holiday house, no luxury car (one mazda CX-5, one 20 year old car worth 2k), no international holidays (since 2015), no designer clothes, no eating out.
I assume single income household?
Yes
@dmcneice: I know the answer is likely, and fairly: "yes and we don't want to" - but have you considered some form of downsizing? Smaller and/or cheaper place with a bit less of a financial burden?
Most inner-suburban Brisbane/GC living pretty much requires dual decent incomes now. Even though you are personally on a great salary, you're getting taxed out the wazoo given you're earning it solo. I assume you have a good reason for the single income. If you have a partner it might be worth considering a family trust to distribute wealth. I'm very much not a financial advisor, but it warrants looking into!
@johnno07: My profession is such that I cant distribute my income. We moved back to the coast (extended family live here) 2 years ago after saving for 5 years for a deposit, unfortunately at the height of prices about 6 months before the first rate rise. My wife has had medical problems which has made working quite difficult. Tax is a huge burden. We have enough to survive with all the essentials, so we are luckier than a lot of people.
Downsizing/moving does come with a lot of disadvantages. Longer commute to work (its already 30 minutes), less family help if further away, change in jobs (and a further decrease in income).
My comment wasnt meant to imply "poor me", but rather in response to the how 300k gives you all those luxuries, when it doesnt neccessarily.
Geez, when you're on your deathbed will you be like. "Thank god i didn't live"
I'd like to, it's just the cost of living is crazy right now, and we were hit hard by the interest rate rises. I know a lot of people have it much worse, but the point of my post was not everyone on a high income has "holiday homes, luxury cars, international holidays".
Paycheck to paycheck doesn't mean someone is poor, only that they are living at the edge of their means.
I think this is most people that don't own a property outright.
I asked my butler, nanny & driver & they all said the same, so I suspect the real number is much higher
When your shoe shiner starts complaining, then you know the economy is off chops
According to https://www.wemoney.com.au/financial-wellness-survey-2023 it's now at 50%. I'm not entering in my details to get the full report though.
I can believe that, heaps of people with a tonne of debt, have to buy a new car on finance, have to buy a new tv on afterpay, have to buy a new iPhone on credit card. Not much left each week after payments on all this garbage.
My ex has an income of $800 a week as a stay at home mum of my 2.5 year old. Her rent is $350 a week and she still somehow has no money that she has to ask me for nappies every other week.
some people are just complete sh*te with their money and can't budget to save their lives… usually end up making excuses about how everything is so expensive instead of taking accountability for their poor money management.
I agree, when I hear people are living paycheck to paycheck, I question their spending habbits.
I have a friend on dual income of 250k and they have a house in the east, kids in private school, 2 holidays per year and 2 x mercs. I love them to death cause I grew up with them but it seriously pisses me off and I told them in person they are NOT living paycheck to paycheck in the sense of buying necessities to live. Spending all your paycheck on luxeries is NOT living paycheck to paycheck.
When I was on 15 to 25k income for 5 years while at uni and I was living out of home cause I have no parents home to move back to, I was living paycheck to paycheck. Scraping by and living off noodles and tuna and free food from uni.
yep, as i said. doesnt matter how much they earn, all gone in a month and start zero again next month waiting for paycheck.
450pw to pay for everything other than rent is not exactly heaps, especially with a young child.
Not saying you couldn't make it work, but it wouldn't be easy.
Must be living large on that $40k annual income!
Er. $23400 after rent.
I guess your ex doesn’t eat, have utility bills, have any child related expenses, medications, dentist bills, transport costs, need to wear clothes or bedding or etc. etc.Holding someone on well below minimum wage up as an example of poor budgeting is what the billionaires want you to do - the problem isn’t high costs and low incomes, it is those poor money skills.
If your income is $40k p.a. You don’t have any poor money skills, you haven’t got enough money to manage in the first place.
If she wants to live the lavish life she would have to suck it up and get a job like every other single working mum.
Some nappies for the kid doesn’t sound that lavish.
Surprised your relationship didn't work out.
25kg bag of rice is more economical than 2 minute noodles