EV Brakepads? Actually a Different Product? or Is It Just Deceptive Marketing?

whitepuma on 06/11/2023 - 15:23

I know more than the average person when it comes to automotive, mechanics, and engineering. But i know significantly less than an auto expert, mechanic, or engineer.

Supercheap recently promoted to me EV specific brakepads. This confused me a bit as i assumed the disc brakes in an EV work very much the same as disk brakes in an ICE.

Am i wrong? are disc brakes in EV's different to that of ICE? and what would be different about these EV pads (besides exact fit) that makes them different to ICE?
The only thing i can potentially think of is that because EV's are heavy (due to the batteries) that an EV would use larger pads than that of a car with similar size….but wouldn't that just justify using larger pads that also fit in ICE vehicles?

Is this just deceptive marketing? A bit like what Nurofen was pulling off a while ago? or is this actually a different product? and what would be different about it?

Automotive Brake Pads

Comments

Gdsamp on 06/11/2023 - 15:29

+2

id guess they are a less long-lasting brakepad seeing as you shouldn't have to replace them anywhere near as often on a car with regenerative breaking (in particular cars that support one-pedal driving)

and then you can feel good about buying them and replacing them more frequently than you need to because they have a 'low environmental impact'
- Ramrunner on 01/12/2023 - 08:53
  
  Not offset by the bigger weight of the car though? (genuine question). I know generally shocks and dampers have to be heavier duty because the car is heavier I thought it would actually need stronger brakes.
  
  Your comment does make sense though.
jv on 06/11/2023 - 15:37

-8

brakes in EV's different to that of ICE?

yep
- Iwantthebestprice on 06/11/2023 - 20:58
  
  Explain
  - coffeeinmyveins on 07/11/2023 - 07:21
    
    JV only responds in single word replies
    - andrek on 07/11/2023 - 08:03
      
      … and mixed bold requires two words or more.
  - LFO on 07/11/2023 - 11:25
    
    +2
    
    Explain
    
    Gee … It is so obvious…
    
    EVs are electric so brakes are electric with special electrons doing all the friction.
    
    ICE ones use fuel so brakes are fuel based with special petrochemicals doing the work instead.
    
    Obvious, really.
scrimshaw on 06/11/2023 - 15:38

+16

EV brake pads can rust from disuse, since they are not engaged as often in daily driving versus a gas-powered car. the surface rust on the pads builds up and causes corrosion.

So the specialty EV brake pads are galvanized to prevent them from rusting and corrosion — that's what the manufacturer claims anyway.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ev-brakes-rust-from-disuse/

Reddit comments say you should just brake a little harder than normal so that they brake pads engage and the rust is removed from the surface of the pads. I don't know what to think of this advice (I don't drive an EV) but it does sound like you can use normal brake pads anyhow and remove the surface rust yourself (just by braking hard)
- whitepuma on 06/11/2023 - 15:41
  
  +3
  
  interesting, i didn't think of that, i learnt something new today, thankyou
- Malik Nasser on 06/11/2023 - 15:50
  
  +3
  
  Brake pads rust? The friction material rust? That's the first I heard.
  Maybe the backing plate holding the friction material can rust, but generally the better quality ones are galvanised, as you have noted (not specific to EV's).
  Brake rotor will rust, but there is not much you can do about than, except hard braking as you have noted.
  
  To me, this is just a marketing gimmick to suck in dollars from the unsuspecting EV owners.
  Yes EV's are heavier than equivalent sized ICE cars, but what about SUV's, trucks, etc…
  The limiting factor in braking is the rubber compound in the tires, not the brake system.
  - scrimshaw on 06/11/2023 - 15:53
    
    +2
    
    That's precisly how you sell products, you come up with a problem and then sell the solution.
  - garetz on 06/11/2023 - 17:35
    
    +1
    
    Not only do they rust but brake dust contributes 20% of fine particulate matter pollution, compared to just 7% contributed by exhaust fumes.
    
    Every time you use your brakes, metal particles produced by the rubbing of your brake pads against your wheel are emitted. These small particles are harmful both to the environment and your health.
    - brendanm on 06/11/2023 - 19:22
      
      +2
      
      Gosh I hope my brake pads never rub against my wheels.
    - terrys on 07/11/2023 - 16:20
      
      -1
      
      Not only do they rust
      
      Given that rust is a specific feature of ferrous metals, a class of compounds not noted for their friction, I imagine the poorly worded advertising bumph in scrimshaw's link refers to the holder oir the disk the pad is pressed against, rather than the pad itself.
      
      metal particles produced by the rubbing of your brake pads against your wheel are emitted
      
      That's some next level energy transfer happening there. Are they ultra-violet to start with and pass down through infra-red before consolidating in a more molecular form or is English your second language, and it has failed you in your attempt to appear educated?
- Iwantthebestprice on 06/11/2023 - 20:58
  
  Now this is an answer! Thanks!
[Deactivated] on 06/11/2023 - 15:42

+5
From Bendix;

EV and Hybrid vehicles are heavier than an equivalent passenger vehicle, so the brake components need to cater for the heavier vehicle to maintain braking stability.

EV and Hybrid vehicles use regenerative and friction to stop the vehicle, so the dynamic friction properties are tuned differently to those of standard brake pads.

EV and Hybrid brake pads need to manage disc brake rotor corrosion, due to the friction brake pads being used less, frequently due to regenerative braking, the EV-Hybrid brake pads maintain a transfer film on the disc brake rotor that prevents corrosion and ensures consistent braking in specific conditions.
- Mokr on 06/11/2023 - 16:55
  
  EV and Hybrid vehicles are heavier than an equivalent passenger vehicle, so the brake components need to cater for the heavier vehicle to maintain braking stability.
  
  Model 3 is the same weight as bmws
  - [Deactivated] on 06/11/2023 - 17:15
    
    +2
    
    Model 3 is the same weight as bmws
    
    but not the same weight as the equivalent model in that market sector.
    Model 3 = 1760kg
    BMW 330iM = 1488kg
    
    BMW 8 series = 1771 kg
    Tesla model s = 2215kg
    
    Tesla X = 2487kg
    BMX X5 = 2110kg
    
    So far Teslas are looking fatty boomba compared to the equivalent model. Even worse if compare to regular everyday cars most mere mortals can afford.
    
    Hyundai i30 = 1440 kg
    Mazda 6 Atenza = 1570kg
    SantaFe Highlander = 1900kg
    - Mokr on 06/11/2023 - 18:00
      
      +1
      
      300 kg.
      
      That's just two Pacific islander dudes.
      - [Deactivated] on 06/11/2023 - 20:08
        
        +1
        
        @Mokr: Heavier is heavier. The EVangelists don’t seem to want to understand physics.
        And what about the 440kg overweight Tesla s? That’s a full cabin in the 8 series.
    - 2esc on 07/11/2023 - 10:20
      
      More wear and tear on our roads? Many minor regional roads were originally built to cope with smaller trucks and much lower traffic volumes. Now overall volumes are considerably higher and some types of trucks 3 or 4 times heavier knocking the roads about.
  - LukeOliver on 07/11/2023 - 09:44
    
    -1
    
    I think the vehicle weight includes 10 litres of fuel only. Those BMW weights can come up a bit for this comparison.
    - Euphemistic on 07/11/2023 - 10:01
      
      +1
      
      50kg isn’t a lot of difference.
pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 15:44

+7

Marketing wank, that's all it is. EV hardly use their brakes anyway, so why would they need "special pads". I think they are pushing the "green angle" here and not that EV/Hybrids need a different type of pad.
- jv on 06/11/2023 - 15:59
  
  -4
  
  EV hardly use their brakes anyway
  
  So true…
  - pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:03
    
    Not sure I see your point
    - jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:06
      
      That wasn't due to not using the brakes, that was due to flooring the accelerator.
      - pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:15
        
        @jv: Huh??
        
        wasn't due to not using the brakes
        
        doesn't match up with;
        
        that was due to flooring the accelerator.
        
        Hitting the accelerator means you were not using the brakes…
        
        So, both were the result of "not" braking and the driver being AFK for one reason or another…
        
        We get it, jv, you are afraid of EV's and change, but for every stupid link and remark you put up, I can find an equally stupid ICE story to post in reply. These things are not the result of EV's they just involve an EV. Correlation is not causation… ;)
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:18
        
        -1
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        Hitting the accelerator means you were not using the brakes…
        
        Not always…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:22
        
        +2
        
        @jv: Your link is also irrelevant, as this was due to a "Cult of Elon" worshipper, drinking too much of the Musk flavoured Kool-Aid and thinking that "Auto-Pilot" meant "Auto-Pilot". The reason this driver crashed had nothing to do with his brakes and more to do with him being a gullible idiot.
        
        Not always…
        
        Are you suggesting that the 66yo BMW X5 driver had both the brake AND accelerator on at the same time? Have you relayed your eye witness account to Victoria police?
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:23
        
        -1
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        Are you suggesting that the 66yo BMW X5 driver had both the brake AND accelerator on at the same time?
        
        It is possible… Unless they were legless.
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:32
        
        @jv:
        
        Unless they were legless.
        
        You do know they make cars for people without legs, yeah??
        
        Or are you suggesting that the driver was, in an informal sense of the word "legless"?? And if so, have you relayed your eye witness account to Victoria police?
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:19
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        you are afraid of EV's
        
        Why ?
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:29
        
        +6
        
        @jv:
        
        Why ?
        
        I don't know, but your endless ranting bullshit and misinformation about EV's tells me that you are. I don't care that you are scared of EV's or the evolution of motoring away from petrol and diesel, that is up to you to deal with, I am only concerned with misinformation and bullshit.
        
        I'm not "pro-EV" (I don't give a shit what car people drive) as much as I am anti-bullshit. But you, you seem to get very upset over what fuel other people put in their cars, so much so that you go out of your way to spread misinformation… and to be honest, it puzzles me why you care so much about what fuel other people's cars run on that you actively try and dissuade people from buying a car they might actually enjoy.
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:30
        
        -3
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        I don't know
        
        Then no basis for unfounded accusations…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:35
        
        @jv: Why don't you enlighten us then? Why the morbid fear of EV's, jv??
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:36
        
        -2
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        Why the morbid fear of EV's
        
        more unfounded accusations…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:39
        
        +1
        
        @jv: Let me ask it another way;
        
        "Why do you post so much misinformation and bullshit about EV's, jv? Is it out of fear of change? Are you scared of change?"
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:30
        
        -2
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        misinformation about EV's
        
        I posted a link to a factual news story…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:34
        
        +3
        
        @jv: You misrepresented the story as a "brake issue" related to EV systems, when it wasn't. It was about a driver who drank too much of Musk's bullshit, who went on to let "Jesus take the wheel".
        
        That, is the very definition of "misinformation"
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:31
        
        -2
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        you seem to get very upset over what fuel other people put in their cars
        
        yet another unfounded accusation…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:37
        
        +4
        
        @jv: Would you like me to go over your comment history and link to every single negative comment you have made about EV's that are misinformation, unrelated to the vehicle being an EV, or just outright bullshit? I could be at it a while, so you might need to give me a few days to compile it out of your 100,000+ comments.
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:40
        
        -2
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        Would you like me to go over your comment history
        
        I don't really care…
        
        You can do what you like…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:43
        
        +1
        
        @jv:
        
        You can do what you like…
        
        Except put electricity in my EV, it seems. That, for some reason triggers people.
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:46
        
        -2
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        put electricity in my EV
        
        and……
        
        I'm not "pro-EV"
        
        😲
        
        ihfree on 06/11/2023 - 16:49
        
        +2
        
        @jv: Get of NewsCorp and stop parroting their crap.
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:54
        
        @ihfree:
        
        Get of NewsCorp
        
        How do I get them?
        
        Is it free?
        
        ihfree on 06/11/2023 - 17:02
        
        @jv: For you, it's more like. "How do I get them out?"
        
        Free is subjective even with their free content or paywall bypasses. The cost to any country with NewsCorp is quite high.
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:55
        
        +2
        
        @jv: I don't get your correlation. You don't have to be "pro-something" to buy one. I'm not "pro-mobile phones" but I own one.
        
        You don't have to be "pro-EV" to buy one. I am more "anti-multinational fuel company", so, to get off their teat, I had to by a car that offered an alternative option to the usual fossil fuels. When I can get a car that uses neither fossil fuels nor electricity, I'll swap again, because I am also "anti-electricity conglomerations." But for about 80% of my power, I don't need to pay them either :D
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:55
        
        -4
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        You don't have to be "pro-EV" to buy one.
        
        🤣🤣🤣
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:58
        
        @jv: Again… You don't neeeeeed to be "pro-EV' to buy one. Weirdly enough, this really isnt a pre-requisite to buy one.
        
        At no stage in the buying process was I asked if I was "pro" or "anti" EV…
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:59
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        At no stage in the buying process was I asked if I was "pro" or "anti" EV…
        
        Same as when you buy an ICE car.
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:03
        
        @jv: If someone made an ICE vehicle that I could fuel at home from what I could make myself, I would buy that car instead… Please, post me a link to an ICE car I can buy where I can either get the fuel out of the wall of my garage, or make the fuel off the roof of my house…
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 17:06
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        If someone made an ICE vehicle that I could fuel at home from what I could make myself, I would buy that car instead…
        
        done…
        
        https://mybroadband.co.za/news/motoring/499771-how-to-make-y…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:11
        
        @jv: I cant make diesel at home. I certainly cant get it out of a wall socket in my garage, or off my roof… I would still need to go out and find the raw ingredients and I would need quite a large setup to even turn over the smallest amount of diesel. (For the record, my uncle makes all his own diesel in his shed at home and it's not cheap nor is it easy.)
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 17:14
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        I cant make diesel at home.
        
        You don't need to…
        
        https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2023/07/17/PepsiCo…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:26
        
        @jv: Soooo… I am going to be competing with a company like PepsiCo who will be going around and buying up all the cooking oil to pad out their bio-diesel supplies. Even less base product for me to collect to use in my home.
        
        Great solution to getting off the fuel mega-corporation teat, jv, go into competition with PepsiCo instead…
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:56
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        When I can get a car that uses neither fossil fuels nor electricity
        
        Hydrogen
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:00
        
        +1
        
        @jv: And where does this hydrogen come from, jv? Who would likely be the biggest players in making, transporting and distributing hydrogen, jv? Where would I buy it, jv? Where are the places most likely to sell me hydrogen fuel for my hydrogen car, jv? How would I go about making hydrogen at home, jv?
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 17:01
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        And where does this hydrogen come from, jv?
        
        Water
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:05
        
        @jv:
        
        Water
        
        Yeah, not quite, champ. While you can do it that way, that's not the typical way they make hydrogen fuel for vehicles.
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 17:02
        
        -1
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        Where are the places most likely to sell me hydrogen fuel for my hydrogen car, jv?
        
        Up to you… But it's not hard… No harder than charging batteries…
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/07/out-of-t…
        
        Hydrogen will kill off EVs in the not too distant future…
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:07
        
        @jv:
        
        Hydrogen will kill off EVs in the not too distant future…
        
        You see, there you go with misinformation again.
        
        Hydrogen will never take off en-masse for passenger vehicles. Hydrogen for cars is like an EV…. but with extra steps…
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 17:10
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        Hydrogen will never take off en-masse
        
        Same thing was said about Model T ford….
        Same thing was said about electric cars before Elon….
        Now????????
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:35
        
        @jv: Yeah, ok… Same thing they said about Betamax as well… Oh and dont forget the rotary engine and every other iteration of ICE engines I have laughed at over the last 30+ years that were supposed ot replace piston engines…
        
        Some things make sense because they work (cars replacing horse and buggy)… Other things dont make sense because they are fixing a problem that doesn't really exist and in the process of fixing a problem that doesn't exist, they are making it a bigger problem.
        
        Hydrogen as a fuel is pie in the sky because it is an EV, "but with extra steps". You cant store hydrogen like you can petrol or diesel. You cant ship hydrogen like you can petrol or diesel… Electricity doesn't require "shipping" or "storage", it just requires a cable (that is already there or close by) and an outlet plug.
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 17:11
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        Hydrogen for cars is like an EV….
        
        Not at all…
        
        Have you tried to charge an EV on a road trip?
        
        Or what about a truck that needs to drive interstate?
        
        Or a bus that drives people around all day?
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 17:53
        
        +1
        
        @jv:
        
        Not at all…
        
        Hydrogen cars take hydrogen, as a fuel and convert it back to water, this makes electricity in a fuel cell to power an electric motor… To amke that hydrogen fuel, they need electricity and LOTS of it… So, instead of making that hydrogen with electricity, why not just put it directly into the car??
        
        An infographic for you…
        
        Hydrogen car;
        Pump in and store water —> electricity —> hydrogen generation plant —> make hydrogen —> pump to storage tanks —> pump into shipping vessels —> shipped to fuel station via diesel trucks —> pumped into storage tanks —> pumped into cars —> cars converting hydrogen back to electricity —> Electricity powers motor to move car
        
        EV car;
        Electricity —> down copper wire to your house —> into your car —> powers motor to move car.
        
        A EV car cuts out ALL the extra steps. You need electricity at the start and at the end in a hydrogen car… why not just skip those extra steps?
        
        InB4 you say "YoUsE cAn jUsT bUrN HyDrOgEn LiKe PeTroL"… yeah, nah, not really
        
        Have you tried to charge an EV on a road trip?
        
        Did a 550+km round trip only just today, from my place to the airport in Sydney, out to the western part of Sydney, back into North shore and back home. I will admit, I did have to charge… for a whole 30 mins… while I had lunch and did my shopping at Ikea… And the charger was a "free charger" so I also paid $0 for my return trip :D
        
        Or what about a truck that needs to drive interstate?
        
        Moving the goal posts? Are we talking about trucks now? Stick to the topic, jv.
        
        Or a bus that drives people around all day?
        
        Oh, you mean these electric buses?? Or were you referring to the Transport for NSW EV Bus program??.
        
        jv on 06/11/2023 - 16:50
        
        @pegaxs:
        
        I'm not "pro-EV"
        
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/14516813/redir
        
        "Have been looking at some EV’s"
        
        😲😲
        
        pegaxs on 06/11/2023 - 16:56
        
        +3
        
        @jv: Again, you don't need to be "pro-EV" to buy one…
        
        ihfree on 06/11/2023 - 17:00
        
        +1
        
        @jv: It's not really that hard to understand.
        
        For many people not involved in the culture wars, a car is just that - a form of transport.
        
        There's weighing up of the benefits of each fuel source and engine technology. For many that's as far as it goes.
        
        coffeeinmyveins on 07/11/2023 - 07:23
        
        @ihfree: JV is either a troll or a special needs person.
        
        Either way you'll never win an argument with them.
        
        Barbados Slim on 07/11/2023 - 08:40
        
        @ihfree: Stop feeding jv
Malik Nasser on 06/11/2023 - 16:08

+1

Looking at one of those Bendix brake pads that you linked to, they are exactly the same size as the standard ones (89mm x 48mm x 15mm for all DB1142 GCT, DB1142 EV, and DB1142 HD).
https://www.bendix.com.au/products/db1142
- whitepuma on 06/11/2023 - 16:52
  
  yeah interesting, so must be something about the material itself like what Brian and Scrim mentioned earlier
GordonD on 06/11/2023 - 17:11

I have a car that you might expect the brake pads to last forever on because they do so little work, but its been disappointing that both they and the disk rotors have needed to be replaced a couple of times.

I'm referring to the rear disks on my Clio Sport, which you'd expect would do very little work, because two thirds of the car's weight is over the front wheels, and under braking even more transfers forward. And the harder you brake, which you might expect a spritedly driven small car would encourage, the more of the braking is done by the front brakes, and the less by the rears. I understand that in the UK the Trophy version had problems being MoT'd because the roadworthiness test requires all 4 wheels' brakes to be working, and on those the manufacturer set the brake proportioning so the rears didn't do any of the braking. It saves the rear inside wheel stopping when you pick it up off the ground, then flat-spotting when it comes down again. Sure, the rear brakes get used by the handbrake, but that doesn't produce wear. And they are used by the stability control, but how often does that kick in.

Rear disks on small light front wheel drive cars seem to be largely pointless, and perhaps they're only fitted because people expect a performance car to have four wheel disks. I wonder if how little they are used is causing a cycle of rust forming and being ground off, and pads having to be abrasive enough to do that, that is prematurely wearing out the rear disk rotors. Perhaps I'm not driving it enthusiastically enough?
- plmko on 06/11/2023 - 18:14
  
  That makes no sense or you're exaggerating things. Skilled drivers feel the weight distribution of the car and modulate the brake pedal to use all 4 brakes as much as possible. Otherwise you will cook your front brakes on consecutive hard braking, not to mention brake lock or brake fade from the heat.
  
  Yes rear discs don't do as much as work as the fronts and that's why they're small but larger brakes don't necessarily mean bigger stopping power to begin with.
  - Euphemistic on 06/11/2023 - 19:46
    
    Skilled drivers feel the weight distribution of the car and modulate the brake pedal to use all 4 brakes as much as possible. Otherwise you will cook your front brakes on consecutive hard braking, not to mention brake lock or brake fade from the heat.
    
    That really makes no sense. There is no way of adjusting your brake bus with ‘driver skill’ you’ve only for one option and that is pushing the brake pedal you don’t get to choose front or back.
GordonD on 06/11/2023 - 17:12

+3

I've been astounded by this thread. No-one has referred to "breaks", or "breaking".
- mapax on 06/11/2023 - 17:26
  
  +3
  
  First post?
  - GordonD on 06/11/2023 - 17:27
    
    +1
    
    Ha, missed it. OK, only ONE person has. That's still extraordinary enough.
    - andresampras on 06/11/2023 - 17:46
      
      ozbarginners is clever yo
- Aureus on 06/11/2023 - 19:31
  
  +1
  
  Brakes my heart. 😢
  - Euphemistic on 06/11/2023 - 19:47
    
    harte
Tomhaigh1 on 06/11/2023 - 17:38

Tweet to Elon Musk
LFO on 07/11/2023 - 11:19

+1

Well, those brake-pads were specifically designed and made for EVs under Australian Conditions.

'cause in the rest of the world inertia works differently …

EV Brakepads? Actually a Different Product? or Is It Just Deceptive Marketing?

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