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[PC] Games for Gaza - 256 Games for US$10 @ Itch.io

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[PC] Games for Gaza - 256 Games for US$10 @ Itch.io
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Taegukgi on 31/10/2023 - 00:24 itch.io (5218 clicks)
Last edited 31/10/2023 - 11:35 by 1 other user

A bundle hosted by Oak Grove Games by Esther Wallace with content from 140 creators.

In response to the ongoing crisis in Gaza and occupied Palestine, we're creating this bundle to raise funds for the organization Medical Aid For Palestinians. All funds raised will go to the organization.

From the organization's website: "MAP's vision is a future where all Palestinians can access an effective, sustainable and locally-led system of healthcare, and the full realisation of their rights to health and dignity.

Through our programmes in the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, and Lebanon, we work with trusted and experienced local partners to achieve this vision. Our programmes, designed and delivered by Palestinians, provide access to essential health services and build local knowledge and skills to address Palestinian health problems. In times of humanitarian emergency, we are ready to respond rapidly with aid and assistance.

MAP is also committed to bearing witness to the injustices caused by occupation, displacement and conflict. We speak out in the UK and internationally, and ensure Palestinian voices are heard at the highest levels, to press for the political and social barriers to Palestinian health and dignity to be addressed." This bundle will run for two weeks, from October 26th-November 9th, 2023.

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        • CowFrogHorse on 09/11/2023 - 17:22
          -1

          Q: Palestinians living in Israel do not have the same rights as those of Israeli Jews. On the streets right now there are hate mobs looking for Israeli-Arabs

          Cow: THe average P living in I has far more rights than any Arab living in any Muslim country.

          Isreal has many faults, but life is better there if you follow the rules instead of waving flags and crying freedom.

          Do you know what would happen to Hamas and their supporters if they did the same in any other muslim country ? Peopl are executed for far less in Saudi arabia, Iran, Egypt etc.

    • Wolfenstein98k on 31/10/2023 - 09:26
      +5

      How is it an "ethnic cleansing"? The population has doubled in the 21st century. Netanyahu was expanding work permits for Gazans before this war.

      What kind of "genocide" causes the population to grow faster than all by 17 other countries on earth?

        • Wolfenstein98k on 01/11/2023 - 11:03
          -2

          Right, so what is the ethnicity that Israel is leaving in place, while forcing another ethnicity out?

          It's not "ethnic cleansing" if you just move all the civilians while you conduct raids against the terrorists that are dug in underneath them.

          The only arguable "ethnic cleansing" Israel has done was the unilateral withdrawal in 2006, when they "ethnic cleansed" all the Jews from Gaza by forcibly removing them following Hamas's election, leaving Gaza to rule itself.

        • CowFrogHorse on 09/11/2023 - 17:24

          You dont understand what foreign aid is… secondly giving people money almost NEVER solves any problems - it simply creates more because it encourages stupiduty and corruption.

          Foreign aid is often simply a nice way to say we are giving money to your country so your corrupt officials can take some mega bribes so our companies can do business there.

    • Superkid on 31/10/2023 - 09:49
      +3

      ethnic cleansing? The population of gaza has increased year on year.

      • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:23

        that's because three quarters of Gazans are not even from Gaza, they were ethnically cleansed from other parts of IsnotReal

    • jonow83 on 31/10/2023 - 10:06

      Don't see them bombing West Bank

    • Xizo on 31/10/2023 - 10:09
      +11

      Gotta love the armchair moralists here meting out ethical perspectives, yet failing to make a single informed comment. Reminds me of the WMDs that we burned Iraq for, a nice excuse.

      Let’s just zoom out a bit. If you identify as Israeli anywhere on earth, you have an automatic right to live in “Israel”, because “God” says so.

      If you’re a Palestinian and have lived on this land for the last Millenia, you have one of two choices, leave or be killed, with no right of return ever.

      So far, this has been the fate of over 6 MILLION Palestinians.

      If any of you think this is right, please stop reading.

      I agree Hamas is the source of all evil in the world, and in their absence we’d have a prosperous and happy Middle East. Yet, they were founded only in the 80s.

      Let’s consider where there is no Hamas.

      Is there Hamas in the West Bank? No. The Palestinian Authority have given up all means of resistance long ago, and have actively fought Hamas. Look it up.

      Is the West Bank occupied by Israel? Yes. Look it up.

      Under international law, is Israel’s occupation of the West Bank legal? No. Look it up.

      How many illegal “settlers” are there in the West Bank? Nearly 700,000. Look it up.

      The process of kicking people out of their ancestral homes and demolishing them, for sale as settlement land, is ongoing. Look it up.

      So, what is the West Bank doing about it? Nothing, there’s nothing they can do. Remember, no Hamas, no resistance.

      Still, incursions and war on the West Bank is ongoing. ~ 130 people have already been killed by Israel in the West Bank in the last 3 weeks.

      Are you going to keep shouting Hamas?
      I mean, you can, it’s just not a terribly intelligent thing to do

      • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 11:35
        -1

        Gotta love the supporters of the oppressed Palestinians who no matter what is happening will try and point to some other injustice as the reason for all their troubles.

        If you really want to support the well-being of the Palestinians you ought to pray for better Palestinian leadership. Israel is not going to disappear.

        • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 13:04
          +5

          Standard practice of not addressing any of the points Xizo carefully and articulately constructed, and just give some random, zero value, comment dismissing it all.

          The sign of someone addled with confirmation bias who literally can't to be educated on matters beyond what they're being fed through propaganda.
          You need to take a step back and look at all of the facts.

          And you say Israel is not going to disappear….
          I wouldn't be so sure.

          They're banking on the fact they've dehumanised the Palestinians to the extent that nobody will defend them, and they've done a pretty good job of that by labelling them animals and rats so far.
          But if they push the wrong buttons, they are literally surrounded on all sides by countries and armies that really don't like them.

          • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 15:41
            -1

            @Deviner: These points were addressed and re-addressed across this and many other similar threads. I don't think that addressing every one of these worth anyone's time. The general sentiment about poor oppressed Palestinians is the main theme of these points.
            The only dehumanisation going on here is to Hamas and their supporters. But of-course you are welcome to push the victim mentality longer. I'm just sure it is not going to help the Palestinians.

        • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:25

          Maybe in the near future, but Arabs will decolonize Palestine from the invaders sooner or later

      • rightguy on 31/10/2023 - 13:48

        So I looked up the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and I couldn't find how it's illegal. Supposedly the two parties signed multiple accords called the Oslo Accords which established a model of shared occupation of that region and those accords are legally recognized by both parties and much of the world. As such how is the continuation of those accords by those two parties an illegal occupation?

        • Xizo on 31/10/2023 - 17:24
          +1

          https://press.un.org/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

          What did you exactly look up?

          • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 00:06
            +1

            @Xizo: Did you actually read the resolution? It's that the settlements are not legally recognized not that the occupation is illegal. Not sure what your background is with interpreting law, especially international law, but you're conflating two completely different things.

            In fact it's quite clear that the occupation is considered valid and legal as the very resolution you mentioned in the third paragraph states "Reaffirming the obligation of Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, and recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice."

            By recognizing Israel as "the occupying Power," which is has in multiple resolutions to date the UN Security Council is validating Israel's legal status as the occupying Power and making it abundantly clear that their occupation is legal and recognized as such by the UN and is legal under the Geneva Convention which requires them to ensure that the keep to various requirements under the Geneva Convention.

            Israel's occupation of the West Bank is absolutely legal under international law and is recognized as such. The resolution you cited indicates as such.

            What did I look up? I looked up the Geneva Convention and various clauses related to these matters to see if there's anything illegal about occupying land after seizing it in war (turns out there's nothing illegal about it, just requirements of the occupier to the population). I looked up UN council resolutions to see if they call Israel the occupying power or not, which they did and do. And in doing so, again, I noted that many UN resolutions note the requirements of both Israel and the Palestinians under the Oslo Accords which govern the occupation and the divvying up of rights and responsibilities of both parties.

            Everything I found seems to indicate that the occupation of the West Bank is perfectly legal under international law.

            Was there anything else that I'm missing here?

            • CowFrogHorse on 09/11/2023 - 17:26

              @rightguy: rightguy: Did you actually read the resolution? It's that the settlements are not legally recognized not that the occupation is illegal.

              cow: WHo say they are illegal ?

              The UN has no authority in any country, the only authority in any country is the government of that country. There is ONLY one authority in Australia and its the crown, which has given the privilege of creating and updating laws to our parliaments.

              Please use the proper words when you make statements. The UN can say many things but they cannot say use the word ILLEGAL in thise case because the UN does not have authority in Israel or Australia or any country.

    • usernaem on 31/10/2023 - 10:55
      -2

      Don’t remember Jews ever being ‘cleansed’, just packed up and shipped off to another country…

      • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 11:36

        Holocaust deny much?

        • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 14:43
          +2

          Some deny the holocaust…. some identify 2!
          The first being in europe in WW2, the second being in the middle east when jews of many races and countries invaded palestine, and started the ongoing holocaust against palestinians.
          Make no mistake… the approx 20K jews living in palestine before the invasion of palestine post WW2 aren't the cause of the problem, it's the millions of jews that flocked from there all over the world like a plague.

          It's unfortunate that britain's balfour declaration didn't give jews the city of london or all their dodgey tax havens in the channel, instead of palestine… I mean, what british people would be harmed by giving away those territories?
          It's always higher moral ground to give away something you own, than to steal something and suggest a third party now owns it.

          Or closer to home, why not give the mormons canberrra? They are a group of people who share a common religion, why can't they have their own country?

          • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 14:54
            +1

            @rooster7777: While I cannot agree with you on much of what you say, especially when calling the jewish immigration a plague, I can agree that the historic context of this situation is quite complicated. However, what's done is done. Israel exists and won't be destroyed. If you really care about Palestinians, you should support a better Palestinian leadership that will put this conflict to rest.

            I have a good feeling that you don't feel the same about it and would rather see more wars and death instead, while trying to justify it by historical half truths and bunch of whataboutoism.

          • Almost Banned on 31/10/2023 - 15:33
            +2

            @rooster7777: Firstly, Jews are Semites. They have an ancestral connection with the land. A bit like our own indigenous people claim connection with land that they might not necessarily live on.
            Secondly, Palestine did not exist. The British Mandate over the area was the governing authority, and they created the homeland idea.
            Lastly, the Mormons don't want Canberra, who would?

            • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 17:21
              +3

              @Almost Banned: plural noun: Semites
              a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.

              Demonstrates your first point has no logical value…. because arabs are also semites.
              What land are you "ancestrally connected with?" Ever thought about nicking off and whacking a flag in the ground and claiming some part of britain…scandinavia…europe… africa…. patagonia? For some reason that sounds pretty silly doesn't it?

              "Secondly, Palestine did not exist"
              To simplify your point for discussion… the area of land sometimes known as palestine. Yes, the british snapped it up from the decaying defeated political overlordship of the ottomans….. but the ottomans didn't significantly inhabit there. In many ways the ottomans may have been seen as a relatively benign overlord, compared to other invaders in history that sought to impose their values and religious beliefs on the defeated occupants.
              A bit like genghis khan, who didn't really give a rat's arse what icon the conquered worshipped, so long as they provided their tribute regularly.

              So we have an identifiable group of people who lived in the region latterly called israel, who were predominantly arabs, but coexisted with a very small number of jews. … So if you wish to be pedantically correct, we could describe the palestinians and palestine as the peoples and the region in the place now known commonly as israel.

              Are you sure the mormons don't want canberra. I suspect they might, if say… israel, or maybe uganda…offered it to them free of charge.
              Would you feel the same way about say …. the leader of argentina giving away seoul to the nearest short fat man with glasses and a good dictatorship? or any other set of unrelated countries?

              • Almost Banned on 31/10/2023 - 17:26
                +1

                @rooster7777: Yes - Jews are semitic peoples, as are Palestinians. I didn't say anything different. They BOTH have long-standing links to the area culturally, linguistically, and geographically.
                Having been to Canberra I am reasonably confident that no, the Mormons don't want it. In fact, Utah was about their fourth choice which they only took because no-one else wanted it.
                And your analogies completely break down - because Britian did exercise jurisdiction over British Mandate Palestine - so was able to say what happens there, unlike your Argentinian Korea fantasy.

                • Xizo on 31/10/2023 - 18:42
                  +1

                  @Almost Banned: You started your argument by saying “Firstly, Jews are Semites. They have an ancestral connection with the land.” Then you followed with “Palestine never existed”. Pardon me for thinking that you’re using these two arguments as a justification, before clutching to the fringes of rooster777’s point.

                  Somehow, somewhere in your argument, you seem to have deliberately failed to mention that over 6 million indigenous “Palestinians/Arabs/Animals/Amaleks” (call them what you will) people were “ethnically cleansed” (that is based on their ethnicity, which happens to be Semitic by the way). These displaced people, and the continuous injustice upon whatever is left of them, is the core of the issue, not what you’re going to call that piece of land. But ofcourse, that’s an uncomfortable argument to have.

                  • Almost Banned on 31/10/2023 - 19:21
                    +3

                    @Xizo: No, precisely zero Palestinians were 'ethnically cleansed'.
                    About 700,000 Palestinians fled Israel, some being forced out by settler militias, in the middle of the last century. About 100,000 remained.
                    On the other hand, nearly 1 million Jews were expelled from Arab countries around North Africa and the Middle East.
                    There are currently about 1.6 million Palestinians living in Israel. On the other hand there are fewer than 5,000 Jews living in 8 different countries in North Africa and the Middle East.
                    Why?
                    Because Israel took in their fellow co-religionists. On the other hand, surrounding Muslim countries refused to do the same with Palestinian refugees.

            • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:29

              @Almost Banned: Ashkenazi Jews are not semites, they are imposters who converted to Judaism. There's a reason why Isnotreal bans DNA testing without a court order because it'll reveal that they'll have no connection to the levant.

          • CowFrogHorse on 09/11/2023 - 17:27

            @rooster7777: @rooster:

            You should read your history books at what the mormons did…

            Heres a clue, they werent giving out presents like Santa, the reason they went to the middle of no where is because they were killing many thousands in towns allover eastern parts of American and had to run.

            Look it up on wiki…

              • Almost Banned on 10/11/2023 - 12:15

                @CowFrogHorse: You know this link contains exactly ZERO support for your claim that Mormons killed thousands of people before fleeing to the West, right?

                • CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 13:54

                  @Almost Banned: look at the table and read the linked articles.

                  LIke i said its pretty obvious why the had to goto the middle of nowhere.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_violence

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

                  The Mountain Meadows Massacre (September 7–11, 1857) was a series of attacks during the Utah War that resulted in the mass murder of at least 120 members of the Baker–Fancher emigrant wagon train.[1][a] The massacre occurred in the southern Utah Territory at Mountain Meadows, and was perpetrated by settlers from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) involved with the Utah Territorial Militia (officially called the Nauvoo Legion) who recruited and were aided by some Southern Paiute Native Americans.[2]

                  • CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 13:55

                    @CowFrogHorse: this is just one example ther are plenty more just keep reading.

                  • CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 13:58

                    @CowFrogHorse: yeh perfectly peaceful they only tried to declare war on the US army…and of course the us army came after them for no reason at all.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Legion

                    The Nauvoo Legion was called up again in the Utah War against Federal troops entering Utah in the "Utah Expedition" from 1857 to 1858

                  • Almost Banned on 10/11/2023 - 15:19

                    @CowFrogHorse: Mormons leave USA = 1846
                    Mountain Meadows = 1857.
                    Tell me again how exactly the link supports your ludicrous claim that Mormons killed thousands before they fled to the West…
                    Then tell me how approx. 100 deaths more than a decade AFTER they left the USA is the same as 'thousands'

  • jaimex2 on 31/10/2023 - 00:59
    +21

    I learnt a new term this week - Social washing

  • sourdawg on 31/10/2023 - 01:08
    +1

    🍿

  • MrPresident on 31/10/2023 - 01:13
    +14

    No penny for terrorists (HAMAS)

    • Bdawg on 31/10/2023 - 09:22
      +1

      I would rather set fire to my money!

      • fat queenslander on 31/10/2023 - 13:38
        +1

        That's un-Australian, why not just get some eneloops instead AND not support terrorists? Win-win

      • infinite on 31/10/2023 - 21:46

        Good luck with your electric vehicle purchase !

  • poisongodmachine on 31/10/2023 - 01:17
    +29

    The amount of people here who think Hamas is synonymous with Palestine is sickening.
    So because of a terrorist group from Palestine, it's ok to kill upwards of 7000 Palestinians, including over 3000 children? Were they all Hamas?????

    • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 01:25
      +18

      The number of casualties reported from Gaza are reported by the Hamas themselves.

      • HD9990 on 31/10/2023 - 01:35
        +13

        them let the reporters/UN/WHO go in without being killed by IDF?

      • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 01:43
        +19

        You are so brainwashed by the propaganda, it's comical.

        If 7,000 civilians weren't killed after the amount of attacks the IDF performed on heavily populated civilian areas (which have all been corroborated, and glorified, by the IDF themselves), how many do you think were killed?
        And considering about half of the Gaza population are under 18… of those 7,000 civilians, how many do you reckon were kids?

        Whether you want to actually think about that or not, your comment above still doesn't even make any sense.

        Killing copious numbers of innocent people in order to get back at Hamas is a war crime.

        • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 01:46
          +8

          Israel's attacks focused on North of the strip, a region that according to different estimates, over 800k civilians left. So it is not heavily populated. Given the poor state in Gaza, the actual action of counting 7000 casualties can take months. So it is very likely to be a propaganda.

          • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 01:52
            +12

            @SolidlyIrresponsible: And you realise that, after telling the civilians to evacuate the North and head to the South for refuge, Israel changed their minds and bombed the South as well, right?

          • RobotWizard on 31/10/2023 - 01:58
            +8

            @SolidlyIrresponsible: Man some of you people are so blind its just upsetting, there have been PROVEN propogandas by Israel(40 babies beheaded, them posting on twitter we just bombed hospital and then ooh no we did'nt) and ya'll would blindly ignore that but there are literally hundreds of videos (not posted on Western medias) online them taking residential buildings down with non stop carpet bombing, they released more than 200 pages with names and details of poor civilians that were killed by Israel and you would call that a propoganda, just wow

            • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 02:04
              +12

              @RobotWizard: I can't have serious discussions with people who are telling me in straight face that babies were only killed and not beheaded.

            • Charlieeee on 31/10/2023 - 02:05
              +18

              @RobotWizard: You're not seriously still believing that Israel bombed the hospital, with all the evidence that has now come out, and reputable sources backing the conclusion that? Let me guess, you're the type of person to believe Al Jazeera over NY times, BBC, CNN?

              • RobotWizard on 31/10/2023 - 02:10
                +9

                @Charlieeee: Same reputable sources that have been spreading lies without source since beginning of this war? I am not here to argue with anyone here tbh, this shit is so disturbing I haven't been able to sleep properly for days and tonight I am still up at 2am arguing with strangers, all I ask is keep and open mind and try to look how things are on the other side, civilians there are just like you and me they don't deserve what's happening to them right now, no ones lives should be worth more than one another.

                • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:05

                  @RobotWizard: The same thing happens every time, Isreal denies it, then it says it's an accident, then they'll admit and announce an enquiry, then the world forget about the Palestinians.

              • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 02:20
                +7

                @Charlieeee: Do you seriously think CNN and NY Times, both massive US outlets… where everyone knows the US has, and still does, send billions of dollars to Israel for their military which is actively funding this attack on Gaza…. are unbiased news sources?
                And then there is that whole, you know…. Hunter Biden, son of the current US president, situation as well…

              • Xizo on 31/10/2023 - 19:12
                +1

                @Charlieeee: Speaking of CNN, the reporter herself apologised on twitter about the fake story of the beheaded babies.
                Still got something to say?

                https://x.com/sarasidnercnn/status/1712415116363169884?s=46&…

          • cloudy on 31/10/2023 - 05:38

            @SolidlyIrresponsible: So Gaza is in such a poor state it’s impossible to count 7000 bodies but easy enough for 800k people to leave (into probably more densely part of Gaza..)

            I think you are applying common sense when it suits your views and happy to leave it behind otherwise.

            I agree the death count is questionable, but not unrealistic

        • Charlieeee on 31/10/2023 - 01:59
          +17

          Umm can you imagine how many Israelis would be murdered if the iron dome didn't exist? Over 4000 rockets have been intercepted in the past few weeks alone.

          The difference is Israel doesn't target civilians and warns of strikes in advance. Hamas doesn't. There's no moral equivalency.

          • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 02:04
            +7

            @Charlieeee: That's objectively false.
            Israel are actually widely known for targeting civilians, even their own.
            They have blown up areas of Gaza where they know their own hostages are being kept and didn't even bat an eyelid.
            And their head of defence has already come out, publicly and on the record, as saying "we don't care about accuracy, we care about damage - we want to level Gaza by the end of this".

            So how does that fit with your belief that they don't target civilians?
            Maybe you could spin it and change it to, "they don't target civilians, but they also don't care about civilians either".

            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/right-now-it-i…

            • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 02:18
              +13

              @Deviner: On one side, you have Hamas and a state supported by countries like Lebanon, Syria and Iraq..

              On another, you have a state that has open communications with the western world and regularly hold army trainings with counties within the NATO.

              One would think it would be so easy to think who are the terrorists.. but here we are..

              Never underestimated the power of propaganda.

              • RobotWizard on 31/10/2023 - 02:36
                +6

                @PuppieWayne: Hahahhaha open communicstion with stolen land you say? Whole middle east is a mess that it is because of US, if they didn't have any oil in those regions they'd still be living a normal life like most other

                "The international community considers the settlements to be illegal under international law, and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention."

                So yes it is very clear to think who are the real terrorists.

                • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 03:00
                  +9

                  @RobotWizard: Ah yes. The UN.

                  The Ottoman empire passed the land around Jordan, Westbank and Gaza to the British empire and instead of giving the land back to its ancestors.. it gave it to Egypt.

                  Jews later bartered and bought lands from Egypt and slowly.. started to re-settled back into their homelands. Bare in mind when i said settle, this is both Israelite and Palestinian.. but the Arab countries were displeased as Muslim normally and wanted it all… thus started the 6 days war where they got their arse kicked.

                  So then Israel signed the Oslo accords and passed the ownership of Westbank and Gaza to the Palestine.. yes, they still do have military presence around the borders.. no differences to Egypt and American with the Mexican border..

                  Then came camp David where Barack wanted peace with Arafat and in reply, he bombed Israel..

                  Benjamin Netanyahu tried again in 2015 with Abbas and in reply, Palestinian leaders stoked the flames of violence during September and October 2015, spreading false information about Israel’s actions surrounding the Temple Mount.

                  UN can say anything…afaik, no legal decision has been finalised.

                  • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:15
                    +1

                    @PuppieWayne: The only isreali who made peace with the Palestinians was Isaac Rabin and he was assassinated by an isreali Jew, then netanyahoo was brought to power and declared Oslo accord dead. The rest of your rant is so out of this world, it's not worth my energy to debunk them

                    • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 15:09

                      @subwoofer: When you are so into the propaganda that you think they've only had one peace talk between Israel and Palestine.

                      Save your energy getting some education.

                • Wolfenstein98k on 31/10/2023 - 09:48

                  @RobotWizard: The Middle East has been a shit-show, at war, for centuries before oil was discovered as useful.

              • maverickjohn on 31/10/2023 - 03:14

                @PuppieWayne: Lebanon does not support Hamas, are you for real? One militia group namely Hezbollah supports Hamas and then you put all of Lebanon in the same group.. that's no different from saying Hamas is Palestine.

                • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 03:21

                  @maverickjohn: Hezbollah is Lebanon most powerful militant organization and is allied with Hamas.

                  How is that not Lebanon supporting Hamas?

                  When the US sanctioned Iraq due to Saddam.. they didn't go.."Oh.. not Iraq, only Saddam".

                  • maverickjohn on 31/10/2023 - 03:24
                    +4

                    @PuppieWayne: Because they don't count for the majority of Lebanese people.
                    They are also culprits of many civil wars with in Lebanon. So how can you say that the country is one and the same. That's a downright offense to the majority of people who have been dealing with hardships under their aggressive chaos.
                    Dude you should really watch how you say things. You might not realize it but associating a country with a militia is really offensive.

                    • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 03:31

                      @maverickjohn: In the 1990s, Hezbollah transformed from a revolutionary group into a political one, in a process which is described as the Lebanonisation of Hezbollah. Unlike its uncompromising revolutionary stance in the 1980s, Hezbollah conveyed a lenient stance towards the Lebanese state.

                      What are you even talking about?

                      And yes, Saddam also killed his own people.. but you don't see a distinction between Iraq and Saddam, do you?

                      • maverickjohn on 31/10/2023 - 03:33
                        +3

                        @PuppieWayne: You still don't know how the politics works in Lebanon. Every militia has a political stance there, that's just one of many.
                        You don't know enough about the country or it's people to make those comments so you need to just stop generalizing. Next time just use Hezbollah instead of lebanon

              • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 15:14

                @PuppieWayne: I certainly agree with your "never underestimate the power of propaganda".
                I don't agree with your implication that for example the US, which has given israel hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars, has a transparent and open neutral policy without propaganda in the middle east.

                As an australian, I grew up believing that the jews in israel were brave and wonderful people living in a country in the middle east.
                When I matured and developed an interest in history, I came to believe that the jews in israel were a nation of people that invaded another country, supported immorally in the first instance by britain, who made the balfour declaration as a political expedient to further their war aims, with little or no consideration of the rights of the people living in palestine.

                When some british administrators recognised the immorality and harm of this policy, and tried to restrict the flood of jewish invaders, the british and non-combatants were shot and bombed by terrorist jewish groups…. the leader of one (M.Begin) was so beloved by the jewish people for his actions that he went on to become an israeli prime minister.

                Israel has received foreign aid from the west, particularly the US….. on a scale grotesquely greater than any other nation in the world…. and you think the west and western media is unbiased?

                Many think the morality of israel and its policies are clear…. but not shining white and blessed like you appear to.

                • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 15:27
                  +1

                  @rooster7777:

                  but not shining white and blessed like you appear to.

                  Sadly, this is prime examples of reading but not understanding. Can you show me where I've said that.

                  All I've written is the history of the situations and at no point have I inserted my own opinion.. I have not once said, Israel is right.. Palestine is wrong.

                  Billions in aids.. yes. Hundred of billions of dollar?.. you got a source?

                  • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 17:34

                    @PuppieWayne: "but not shining white and blessed like you appear to.

                    Sadly, this is prime examples of reading but not understanding. Can you show me where I've said that."

                    Agreed, you didn't say that. What you did say/imply was that because israel has such strong links with the west (my words- particularly read US) …israel must be the "good guys" and anyone opposed to them must be terrorists.

                    Thus your string of logic = if I am hand in hand with the west/US, I must be an upright honorable nation, and my national acts therefore must be fair reasonable and honourable. If I am not hanging on to the west/US coat tails, and I am in conflict with such a nation…I must be by logic the opposite of fair reasonable and honourable.

                    It's a wonderful theory of grading national benevolence until the skirts are lifted…. and one contemplates other partnerships in history, like britain/france/israel vs egypt (surprisingly in that example the US stomped on the western alliance…. why? before the jewish lobby developed their current power in the US?) There are many other examples of "unholy" US support/ alliances in conflicts… for example south america is littered with them. Because pinochet was supported by and enabled by the US, does that make his widespread brutal treatment of his own people noble… or was it perhaps the acts of a terrorist state?

                    You question the hundreds of billions of dollars in aid to israel and seek a source. Yep.. Google. US Gov sites, CIA yearbook… I expect even israeli sites wouldn't dispute it. That you question this surprises me.

                    • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 18:31

                      @rooster7777: You think West = Good.?

                      Did you not read the part I said about what the British did?

                      ..must be by logic the opposite of fair reasonable and honourable.

                      Are you talking about Hamas here?

                      I stand corrected about the aids.

                      • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 20:30

                        @PuppieWayne: Sometimes the "syntax" of posts can be hard to follow where there are multiple posters and posts…. perhaps I got confused…dunno

                        I was replying to your post
                        "On one side, you have Hamas and a state supported by countries like Lebanon, Syria and Iraq..

                        On another, you have a state that has open communications with the western world and regularly hold army trainings with counties within the NATO.

                        One would think it would be so easy to think who are the terrorists.. but here we are..

                        Never underestimated the power of propaganda."

                        My reply was
                        "I certainly agree with your "never underestimate the power of propaganda".
                        I don't agree with your implication that for example the US, which has given israel hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars, has a transparent and open neutral policy without propaganda in the middle east" etc

                        I wasn't suggesting that the west = good, thus all propaganda from the west is good
                        I was suggesting the direct opposite.

                        "..must be by logic the opposite of fair reasonable and honourable." was not framed by me with hamas in mind… it was intended to say that western progaganda tends to paint many entities/actions/nations in a bad light, when it suits the propaganda creator/sponsor.
                        (ie pulls the "strings" of the reader, rather than conveying facts useful in creating informed opinion in the mind of the listener/reader)
                        the terms "freedom fighter" vs insurgent or guerilla for example are words with similar meaning, but opposite "colour" depending on outlook of the listener.

                        tally ho!

        • iperezgenius on 31/10/2023 - 03:15
          +7

          Here are the war crimes that Hamas commited
          https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml
          For the purpose of this Statute, ‘war crimes’ means:
          Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely, any of the following acts against persons or property protected under the provisions of the relevant Geneva Convention:
          - Wilful killing
          - Torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments;
          - Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health;
          - Extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly;
          - Compelling a prisoner of war or other protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power;
          - Wilfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial;
          - Unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement;
          - Taking of hostages.

          Has anyone stated that Hamas commited war crimes. Have you?

          • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 05:50
            +3

            @iperezgenius: And do you want to get your pen out and mark off the ones that Israel commited before October 7th?

          • HK Refugee on 31/10/2023 - 06:14
            +1

            @iperezgenius: https://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/what-australia-is-doing/…

            Listed as terrorist organization in march 2022. In 2023, they lodged the massive attack.

          • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 15:16
            +1

            @iperezgenius: Could you give us the israeli war crimes…. particularly the details covered by UN resolutions blocked by the US and a handful of other countries for many decades?

          • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 21:17

            @iperezgenius: Leaving aside the horror of deeds done, it can be an interesting exercise of logic to consider the topic of "war crimes", the geneva conventions, and the UN.

            Prior to 1949 the geneva conventions only applied to signatories. In WW2 german and western allied military conflicts tended to operate on slightly more "humane" grounds than on the eastern front between germany and the ussr. (ussr signed in 1954) Japan signed the convention in 1929 but failed to ratify it (UN rep signed the convention, but japanese legislature (diet) did not vote it into law. In 1942 japan agreed to abide by the convention, but the dog apparently ate the instructions to their military regarding this.
            (many countries have signed but not ratified international conventions …. australia for example has craploads of unratified international conventions)

            In 1949 the UN voted unanimously that the geneva convention rules of warfare should apply to all, regardless of whether they signed it or not.

            In 1949 israel was admitted to the UN as a full participating nation. Palestine has never been admitted to the UN as a full participating member - it was granted observer non-member status in 2012. This was after a 139-9 vote on the issue… the pariah states (those that sought to bar palestine from any UN presence at all, let alone participating membership) were Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Panama, Palau, United States.
            So the geneva convention applies to palestine, even though they aren't permitted to be a member of the body that decided it applies to them.

            A tricky part of all this legal stuff is that it only appears to apply if you want it to apply- the US has an impressive history of avoiding/bypassing/ignoring any war crimes that it finds inconvenient…. hence waterboarding, guantanamo Bay detention camp etc
            I presume Assange of wikileaks fame is feeling the ongoing wrath of the US's embarrassment about some of such matters.

            I'm not sure when it started, but there is an impressive list of jewish/zionist/israeli war crimes starts in 1947/1948 by terrorists. There are many further examples through the 20th century, often documented and attested to by israeli military personnel.

            I'm not aware of dispute about hamas war crimes, but israeli war crimes aren't so readily accepted as reality by many.

      • Youi2018 on 31/10/2023 - 01:56
        +6

        There are hundreds of videos of whole towns being bombed in gaza and you still think its “fake news” how many people have died . Any hamas people killed by your beloved Israel ? Oh yeh thats still at 0 ….

        • Bdawg on 31/10/2023 - 09:28

          It doesn't matter, Hamas has got to go, they use human shields, sucks for the shields but that's reality, it's Hamas fault and Palestinians fault for a) voting them in and b) overwhelmingly supporting them.

      • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:30
        -1

        So is the isnotreali casualties and they have a massive worldwide propaganda machines backing them.

    • rehan770 on 31/10/2023 - 01:28
      +5

      End of the day,humans are dying which is a sad part. Just by taking anyone's side is not going to save these people whatsoever we do. The poor always has no where to go but suffer due to corrupt people & this has been happening for decades as they say Rich gets richer & poor always gets killed. I wish all our prayers are accepted for these people & their children.

    • jv on 31/10/2023 - 01:36
      +15

      The amount of people here who think Hamas is synonymous with Palestine is sickening.

      Aren’t they the elected, governing body of Gaza?

    • BargainCowboy on 31/10/2023 - 07:39
      +4

      Watch the news, you'll never see Palestinians condemn Hamas.

      • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:17
        +3

        Condemn the isreali army for incinerating men women and infants and I'll condemn Hamas, the silence is deafening

      • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 15:18
        +2

        Watch the news, and see how many jews condem israel's actions…. not bloddy many!!
        I wonder if a jew that does condem israel is automatically labelled and anti semite…. because non jews seem to cop it.

    • rightguy on 31/10/2023 - 13:49

      Posted this elsewhere here so I have copied and pasted but I'm curious about your thoughts on this.

      Have you looked at the information Hamas has released on the 7000 dead? So yes there's 3000 children and when you look at the names of those children it's like 50/50 girls and boys. But then when you remove the children and look only at the adults there are clearly far more men dying than women - it's like 7 out of every 10 deaths are men. Which is weird in a population that is basically 50/50 men and women. Clearly there's some reason why those numbers are skewing and that's again if you take Hamas' data at face value. My best guess is that that data skewing in that direction seems to indicate that Israel is killing Hamas members and not just civilians as otherwise you'd expect a 50/50 split between women and men. But that's just my best guess looking at Hamas' released reports. Not to say that civilians aren't being killed but it at least gives some argument that maybe Israel is doing some reasonable job in trying to target male combatants and not just carpet bombing civilians as one narrative seems to want to portray.

      • poisongodmachine on 31/10/2023 - 15:54
        +1

        Nobody said that Israel isn't killing Hamas members, but they're doing a hell of a terrible job "targeting Hamas only", as they like to claim that's what they're doing.
        You can't say "well sure, there are thousands of innocent children dead, but at least they're killing the terrorists!". No! That kind of collateral damage is unacceptable! These are human lives we're talking about. Thousands of them!

        • rightguy on 31/10/2023 - 16:26

          And so are you saying that it was evil of the Allies to go to war against the Nazis considering it let to deaths of millions of civilians? Considering there's never been war without deaths of civilians and is a feature of war is your opinion that war is never ever morally correct? Like, for instance, in the case of the Rwanda genocide when no country decided to go to war against the Hutu militias because they feared it would cause tens of thousands of civilian deaths the lack of going to war ended up causing 500,000 - 800,000 Tutsi deaths. I guess I'm asking whether or not it's the right of human beings to intervene using war at all as a tool of stopping or attempting to cease a conflict.

          Personally, I don't know what you would expect from the current conflict. Do you imagine that Hamas and Israel can sit down tomorrow and negotiate a fair settlement where Hamas disbands, ends any violence and their leadership submits to imprisonment? Because otherwise you're asking Israelis to just be okay with having a government that is within 100km of its major populations continue to be a threat and continue to hold hundreds of its citizens hostage after killing thousands of its citizens. I'm not pro-war at all but I'm genuinely unsure of how anyone can expect these two sides to come to any outcome but war to settle this current conflict. What other solutions do you propose?

        • rightguy on 10/11/2023 - 06:06

          You really think that Israel is doing a terrible job? It's hit rate on civilians is less than 0.5 people per bomb dropped in one of the most densely urban places on the planet. I mean when I did the math I got to an indiscriminate bombing campaign where you dropped 10,000 bombs on purely urban areas having a strike hit of 28 dead civilians from a bomb drop so I just mean that the data does not seem to back up your claim as they've certainly been able to use both targeting strategies and warning to decrease the death toll by nearly 5500% that seems like a huge success showing that what they are doing in a calculated manner is working. I went back through bombing campaigns in every urban bombing campaign America has fought in since Vietnam and I cannot repeat anywhere close to the success Israel has achieved in lowering the death rate of civilians from bombing as what they've been able to do in Gaza once you adjust for population differences.

          Like what methodology did you use to try to figure out that they're doing a terrible job in relation to what is actually possible within a war setting? I assume you used some sort of historical comparison and looked at data and tracked it accordingly. I'd be curious to find your findings.

          I'd also be curious to understand how you react to something like this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079

      • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:32

        I'm sure when they carpet bomb refugee camps and hospitals and journalists and ambulances, their smart bombs can distinguish between genders

    • Almost Banned on 31/10/2023 - 17:29
      +1
      1. Israel isn't invading the Palestinian Authority controlled areas. Just Gaza. I wonder why…???
      2. Israel has been telling civilians to evacuate the northern parts of Gaza for a fortnight - while Hamas is telling civilians NOT to leave.
      3. Those casualty number are highly suspect, but given Hamas has a track record of putting military targets in schools, hospitals, and residential areas, and they are preventing civilians from leaving, they will cause some civilian casualties.
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