Will I Qualify as a "First Home Buyer"?

Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 18:00
Last edited 30/10/2023 - 18:08

I am looking to buy a second hand home and am wondering if I will get the stamp duty exemption.

I inherited a property 5 years back with my brother as a joint tenants contract. The land is zoned as RU2 rural landscape. The wording in the eligibility requirements clearly state "you and your spouse or partner, must never have owned or co-owned residential property in Australia".

As the land is zoned RU2 Rural Landscape rather than R2 Rural Residential do I therefore qualify? The land does have a old farmhouse on it that is approved as a dwelling.

I have never lived at or visited the property since it was inherited, but I believe my brother may be living there.

Financial First Home Buyer

Comments

  • Drakesy on 30/10/2023 - 18:07
    +3

    1 google

    If however the property has been placed into the names of the trustee or trustees and those trustees apply for the first home owner schemes, they will more than likely find that they will not be entitled to the exemption or reduction in stamp duty or the first home buying grant as they have owned property in their name.

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 18:12
      -4

      Yeah the land is definitely owned by me, it's the "residential" part that I'm hoping might be a loop hole.

      • AustriaBargain on 30/10/2023 - 18:24
        +6

        You already own a home. Surely this goes agains the spirit of the legislation and you'll be denied, and if you don't declare the home you own you could get in trouble.

          • AustriaBargain on 30/10/2023 - 18:37

            @Buyingcrap: Just grow weed in it. Far more common than you'd think.

          • p1 ama on 30/10/2023 - 21:03
            +7

            @Buyingcrap:

            Mate I've paid taxes and subsidised rich landlords for the past 25 years, if I can get a break I'm gonna take it.

            It's a first home owner's grant, not a "I've paid taxes for the past 25 years" grant.

            What makes you think you're more entitled to it than any other homeowner who's also been paying taxes over the past 25 years?

            Also the home is in (profanity) nowhere and has no electricity, running water or sealed walls.

            Yet your brother is living there?

            • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 21:23
              -4

              @p1 ama: I have no idea if my brother is living there but I suspect he may be, we don't talk. He is not a person who conforms to modern society and can live in the bush without modern conveniences like shops and electricity.

              The wording in the form for FHO grant suggests it is for a RESIDENTIAL property. The property I have is not residential. It is a piece of land that has a rundown shack on it that is in no way livable. No electricity connection, holes in the walls, no water connection, maybe a water tank but I'm not sure.

              Inheriting it turned into a burden, under joint tenancy it cannot be sold, it's like a strange Mr Beast challenge where the last person to die gets sole ownership. That's the way joint tenancy works. Last man standing. Until then you are liable for rates and any other expenses.

              The property is in the middle of nowhere. It is not some silver spoon.

              Why should I not get the same leg up everyone else is entitled to when trying to enter this shitty property market. I can't sell it and it costs me money. As far as I can tell I am more disadvantaged than people without this "gift".

              • Kail on 30/10/2023 - 22:37
                +1

                @Buyingcrap: Can't you force a petition sale on it?

                • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 22:50

                  @Kail: It can be done but you need to go through the supreme court from what I have read. Plus then I lose the chance to win a pit toilet and a pile of sticks in (profanity) nowhere 40 years from now if I happen to die last.

                  In all seriousness it needs to be looked into but it's not a quick process that would probably cost me a lot of money in the short term.

                  Also the property isn't worth much.

                  • Kail on 31/10/2023 - 20:17

                    @Buyingcrap: That sucks! It sounds like it's worth doing though, even if it's just to get rid of the rate bills and such.
                    Unless it looks like the land has any chance of being rezoned in the future, which could increase its value.

              • p1 ama on 31/10/2023 - 23:00

                @Buyingcrap:

                I have no idea if my brother is living there but I suspect he may be, we don't talk. He is not a person who conforms to modern society and can live in the bush without modern conveniences like shops and electricity.

                Perhaps instead of guessing, you should actually figure out. FWIW, it is your land after all.

                The wording in the form for FHO grant suggests it is for a RESIDENTIAL property. The property I have is not residential. It is a piece of land that has a rundown shack on it that is in no way livable. No electricity connection, holes in the walls, no water connection, maybe a water tank but I'm not sure.

                You said in your original post that it's "approved as a dwelling" - honestly, if it's coming down to the interpretation of certain words, you need to speak with a lawyer who can give you more specific advice and is familiar with the case law. Nobody here, without knowledge of specifics of that property, will be able to give you any sort of advice that will be meaningful.

                Inheriting it turned into a burden, under joint tenancy it cannot be sold, it's like a strange Mr Beast challenge where the last person to die gets sole ownership. That's the way joint tenancy works. Last man standing. Until then you are liable for rates and any other expenses.

                You could have disclaimed the inheritance if you did not want it.

                Why should I not get the same leg up everyone else is entitled to when trying to enter this shitty property market. I can't sell it and it costs me money. As far as I can tell I am more disadvantaged than people without this "gift".

                I'm not sure why you're trying to convince me (or others on OzBargain) that you are entitled to the grant. We're not the ones who will decide whether it's approved or not.

        • Drakesy on 30/10/2023 - 18:34

          Agreed, don't be like this guy

          • AustriaBargain on 30/10/2023 - 18:38

            @Drakesy: Five days a month, I've spent more time at a rented storage unit..

          • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 18:38

            @Drakesy: Yeah I came across that one in my searching. Definitely don't need a $10k fine.

          • WreckTangle on 31/10/2023 - 19:15

            @Drakesy: Oh yeah, I remember that guy. He had a $10,000 fine to pay. Jeez you wouldn’t want to get it wrong.

  • AndyC1 on 30/10/2023 - 18:08

    What did the "First Home Buyer" state or federal department that is running the discount/grant say when you called them and asked?

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 18:09
      -4

      Well I called them and they had gone home at 5, thought I would try the ozBargain law team to see what they reckon.

      • trustnoone on 30/10/2023 - 21:56
        +2

        Call them, I gave them a call and they were very nice, and took about 15 mins wait until the question that I had. FWIW it can sometimes be difficult. For my question they actually told me they don't actually know LOL, and that usually it is the bank that assess you on their behalf so if the bank puts it through likely its fine.
        This however isn't official advice from me as I don't know myself lol.

  • freefall101 on 30/10/2023 - 18:13
    +3

    Contact Revenue NSW, but…

    The land does have an old farmhouse on it that is approved as a dwelling.

    Makes it sound like a no. Residential property is defined as land on which there is property suitable for occupation on the application form.

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 18:29

      I wonder if having no electricity connection or running water means it's unsuitable. It's also falling apart with glass falling out of the window frames last time I saw it.

      • freefall101 on 30/10/2023 - 22:40
        +3

        A home is a building (affixed to land) that—
        (a) may lawfully be used as a place of residence, and
        (b) is, in the Chief Commissioner’s opinion, a suitable building for use as a place of residence.

        Sounds like if there's an approved dwelling there then it's in the hands of the gods as to whether it's suitable. Or in this case, the hands of Revenue NSW.

  • Wilson Heroes HL on 30/10/2023 - 18:33
    +3

    MB here. Best bet to contact State Revenue, based on the surface level I would lean towards a no but no harm in double checking.

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 18:37

      Not sure what an MB is but thanks, yeah I will definitely look into it properly tomorrow. Only way to be sure but was wondering what peoples opinions might be.

      • FoxJump on 30/10/2023 - 18:45
        +1

        i guess it means master builder
        one level down from wizard builder

      • Wilson Heroes HL on 31/10/2023 - 09:14

        MB = Mortgage Broker

      • WreckTangle on 31/10/2023 - 19:19

        MB! I love your boardgames.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 30/10/2023 - 18:45
    +3

    Guess the death in the family didn’t bring you and your brother closer together if you don’t even know where he lives…

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 19:06
      -1

      No, we have no contact but I'm not sure it's relevant.

  • happydude on 30/10/2023 - 18:49

    residential property—land in Australia is residential property at a particular time if there is, at that time, a building on the land lawfully occupied as a place of residence or suitable for occupation as a place of residence.

    EDIT: Just saw you say it has no electricity and water? If you mean it has no electricity or water at all then that is definitely not suitable for occupation. You wouldn't be allowed to rent it out.

    Section 3 Definitions. - https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/whole/html/inforce/curre…

    So that seems to be out, however….

    Section 11 then has the exact wording.

    11 Criterion 4—Applicant (or applicant’s spouse) must not have had relevant interest in residential property
    (1) An applicant for a first home owner grant is ineligible for the grant if the applicant or the applicant’s spouse has, before 1 July 2000, held—
    (a) a relevant interest in residential property in New South Wales, or
    (b) an interest in residential property in another State or a Territory that is a relevant interest under the corresponding law of that State or Territory.

    (2) In working out for the purposes of subsection (1) whether an applicant held a relevant interest (within the meaning of this Act or a corresponding law) in residential property at a particular time, any deferment of the applicant’s right of occupation (because the property was subject to a lease) is to be disregarded.

    (3) An applicant is also ineligible if the applicant or the applicant’s spouse has, at any time before the commencement date of the eligible transaction to which the application relates—
    (a) held a relevant interest in residential property in New South Wales or an interest in residential property in another State or a Territory that is a relevant interest under the corresponding law of that State or Territory, and
    (b) occupied the property as a place of residence for a continuous period of at least 6 months.

    Subsection 1 and 2 seems irrelevant as I assume this inheritance was post 2000. Subsection 3 then says the residual property spiel, but that you need to have lived their for 6 months to be ineligible.

    You look fine to me. Check with a conveyancer.

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 19:04

      Thanks for finding that, definitely gives me some hope. I will have a professional look into it but I appreciate your effort.

      • happydude on 30/10/2023 - 19:35
        +1

        That form say

        If you answered ‘NO’ to any of the above questions, you may not be entitled to an exemption or concession under First Home Buyers Assistance Scheme.

        So a No answer shouldn't mean straight up rejecting, just that they need to look at the details.

  • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 19:17
    +2

    If only there was a place you could call that could answer this for you.

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 19:17
      -6

      At 6:30pm? Yeah, if only.

      • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 19:19
        +1

        Yeah like you really needed an answer tonight.

        Thanks for the neg. Hope you can't get the grant now.

          • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 19:43
            +1

            @Buyingcrap: Need a tissue?

            I gave you helpful advice. There is a place you can call that has all the answers you seek. No other person or professional you are seeking advice from will have the true answer.

            • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 19:51

              @JimmyF: Yeah thanks for repeating what has been said and answered multiple times in the thread already. I used a financial advice forum for financial information that I couldn't find myself. You came in and made a sarcastic comment. Super helpful dude. Thanks again. Neg, since they seem to bother you.

              • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 20:01
                -2

                @Buyingcrap: So you are impatient on top of being teary, as you can't wait till morning when they reopen to call.

                LOL neg away all you like, I'll save mine for more worthy comments.

                • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 20:05

                  @JimmyF: Well yeah I got approval today, looking at a property tomorrow morning and I'm trying to work out the offer I can make. Once again thanks for your helpful comments. You are truly a master of wit and intelligence.

                  • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 21:08
                    -1

                    @Buyingcrap: So we can add unprepared to the list too!

                    You are truly impatient if you got approved today and trying to buy a property tomorrow without knowing all the answers to the questions you seek!

                    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 21:40

                      @JimmyF: Yep. Saw a property I like, applied for a loan, got the loan and now I'm working out how much I can offer… How is that hard to comprehend?

                      And yes, I am seeking answers… Hence asking the question.

                      Thanks again for the valuable input.

                      • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 22:06
                        -1

                        @Buyingcrap: The bit you failed to comprehend was both those things just didn't just magically happen today. A well prepared person would have sought answers before today…. maybe even before GASP applying for the loan.

                        • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 22:26

                          @JimmyF: Mate I've been saving the deposit for the last five years. I saw the dream property on the weekend and thought "what if", decided bugger it I'll see what my borrowing power is and called up the bank. Turns out my borrowing power was more than I thought.

                          Finished work and did some sums, factored in the stamp duty… decided well stamp duty sucks and it's kinda shitty that other people don't need to pay it when buying their first home, should look into it.

                          Oh so it says if you own a residential property… I don't think the land is residential. Check the zoning. Yeah nothing in there about being residential. Maybe I should call for advice, damn they are done for the day. Maybe ask on ozbargain, there are some smart people there who may have experience with this.

                          Get some (profanity) offering no constructive input (that's you) telling me that I need to know all the answers in a thread where I am literally asking the questions seeking said answers.

                          • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 22:48
                            -1

                            @Buyingcrap: Ok… So you have had 5 years to seek the answer to your question but left it to the final hour.

                            Call them up and see, they'll tell you what the 'land' you own is classed as.

                            As for finding an answer here, it's a 50/50 if you'll get the right answer. It doesn't really matter what anyone says here, the only thing that matters is what the department says when you call them. As it is up to them, not randoms on the internet.

                            • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 22:56

                              @JimmyF: Thanks once again for offering nothing of value. I am aware that advice and opinions on an internet forum do not constitute legal advice nor can posters on said forum approve an application. I am just seeking a discussion.

                              • JimmyF on 30/10/2023 - 23:15
                                -1

                                @Buyingcrap: Your entire question is nothing of value until you call them up for the real answer. Everything else is just meaningless 'discussion' that is 50/50.

  • djkelly69 on 30/10/2023 - 21:30

    What state are you looking at buying in? The requirements vary from state to state.

    Also you might want to confirm you are talking about a stamp duty exemption, because you have referred to both a 'FHO grant' and a 'stamp duty exemption', which are two separate things which have separate (but similar) requirements.

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 21:43

      Yeah I'm in NSW, it's an existing home so no actual grant. Just looking at the stamp duty exemption for first home buyers that I assumed I couldn't get but after looking at the wording and the details thought I may actually still qualify.

      • djkelly69 on 30/10/2023 - 22:06
        +3

        Unfortunately looks like a no.

        The NSW application form has a definition of 'residential property' as 'Land on which there is a building that is lawfully occupied as a place of residence or suitable for occupation as a place of residence, or a company title dwelling.'

        You stated that the farmhouse is approved as a dwelling, so it will very likely fall within that definition and make you ineligible.

        • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 22:34

          Thanks for the advice. Will check it out with them tomorrow. The approval for a dwelling could be a hang up it seems, even if the dwelling is unlivable.

  • miwahni on 30/10/2023 - 21:54
    +1

    First up, it's nearly 20 years since I've been involved in property / lending in NSW, but back then if someone had an investment property that they'd never lived in, they were still entitled to the first home buyer stamp duty discount. Definitely worth a call to the OSR to see if things have changed. It could even be worthwhile getting a valuer out to the property as then you'll have a valuation that states the property is not suitable for rent. It's a bit more official than just something from a REA.

    • Buyingcrap on 30/10/2023 - 22:40

      Yeah… @happydude posted above saying that there is a difference from post July 2000 that if you haven't actually lived in the place for 6 months or not… I'm certainly no lawyer hence asking for some guidance but it seems like we may have some chance with that stipulation too. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate it a lot.

      • djkelly69 on 30/10/2023 - 23:39

        there is a difference from post July 2000 that if you haven't actually lived in the place for 6 months or not…

        That is only for the First Home Owner Grant, which is not what you are wanting to apply for.

  • afah0447 on 31/10/2023 - 08:46

    Looks like a long shot.

  • Buyingcrap on 31/10/2023 - 21:30
    +1

    So for anyone who cares, called them. They asked for an email to which the response was we will get back to you within 10 days.

    • miwahni on 31/10/2023 - 22:31

      Are you going to proceed with your purchase regardless? And then if you get a favourable answer from OSR, happy days. And if not, well at least you haven't missed out on the property you wanted.

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