What's Your Perception on Cryptocurrencies?

techlead on 25/10/2023 - 11:55

Preface: Due to an abundance of caution, none of what I'm going to or will post below is financial advice.

The cryptocurrency market is buzzing back to life now with the rumor of an imminent SEC approval of a spot Bitcoin ETF, which would be huge. Although spot ETFs exists already in Australia and Canada and probably other countries too, but the SEC has still yet to approve by in the US where the most amount of investment cash would potentially come from. People are reading the tea leaves because there was a test ticket for a Bitcoin spot ETF on the DTCC, which has since been removed.

I personally think its inevitable that the SEC will approve one or more spot Bitcoin ETFs, then the flood gates will open for other cryptocurrency related ETFs.

This post is not about the legitimacy of cryptocurrencies, this has already been discussed and as time has proven, cryptocurrencies are here to stay, regulators around the world are legitimizing it, so this point to me is settled.

I think we are on the cusp of another bull market, what's your plans? Very interested to gain the perception on cryptocurrencies from the OzB community.

Poll Options expired

  • 29
    I currently hold cryptocurrencies and plan to purchase more
  • 56
    I currently hold cryptocurrencies and don't plan to purchase more
  • 8
    I currently don't hold cryptocurrencies, but open to it after some research
  • 121
    I currently don't hold cryptocurrencies, and don't plan to ever buy any (its a scam)
Financial Cryptocurrency

Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 12:01
    +2

    my plans: HODL as im still insanely in the red even with the frankly crazy AF 'overnight' gains this week

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 12:03

      What level did you buy at? Only if you are happy to share.

      I myself has been in Bitcoin since 2013 and I'm still insanely in the green and I don't plan to sell. I was in the red for more than a year after I purchased Bitcoin for $800USD each back in 2013. I will never sell the 2BTC from my very first trade, it has sentimental value, its stored in a cold storage wallet as inheritance for my kids.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 12:10

        unfortunately near ATH, all in.

        • Phlume on 25/10/2023 - 12:30

          Same. Unfortunately bought just prior to the ATH in 2021. Holding now until I go bust or the rocket reaches the outer solar system.

          • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 12:51

            @Phlume: for your and my sake i hope we make it fam

          • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:16

            @Phlume: If you only bought spot, you will go bust when Bitcoin goes to $0, which is highly unlikely.

        • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:15

          Sad to hear, but to borrow something my property investing friends have been saying since 2021 (after property prices fell), everything comes in a cycle, if you look in the past, it would drop, but it always rebounds to break higher highs so don't worry.

          This applies for Bitcoin as well. This is my 4th cycle now, Bitcoin has chalked up new ATHs every cycle.

          • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 14:20

            @techlead: yeah thats the way I figure it.
            already accepted 100% loss on SHIB, TRX and Bitcoin Cash.

            me in like 10 years: finally…1% in black - opportunity cost - through the roof.
            others in 10: oh hell yeah 10 x !

            • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:12
              +1

              @Jimothy Wongingtons: Oh, I've lost in alts, some 100% loss. I admit I was caught up in the hype before, but BTC, ETH and some very good alts has offsetted those mistakes.

          • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 14:27

            @techlead:

            property prices

            did they fall? Honestly have no idea after years of mainstream media saying the property affordability crisis is still chugging along..

            • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:36

              @Jimothy Wongingtons: Yep, fell pretty badly too, Sydney was -10+% at one point, but its rebounding back. Some people was in negative equity

              • SlickMick on 26/10/2023 - 10:19
                +5

                @techlead: If a 10% drop in property prices is "pretty bad", how would you describe bitcoin price fluctuations?

          • ValueInvesting on 25/10/2023 - 20:46
            +4

            @techlead:

            Sad to hear, but to borrow something my property investing friends have been saying since 2021 (after property prices fell), everything comes in a cycle, if you look in the past, it would drop, but it always rebounds to break higher highs so don't worry.

            This applies for Bitcoin as well. This is my 4th cycle now, Bitcoin has chalked up new ATHs every cycle.

            Property has intrinsic value, is tangible and you can live in it or rent it out for income etc.

            On the other hand, bitcoin is not tangible and doesn't generate any income… you unfortunately have to wait for some other sucker person to come along and buy it off you for a higher price.

            • bargainhunter168 on 26/10/2023 - 07:48

              @ValueInvesting:

              Property has intrinsic value, is tangible and you can live in it or rent it out for income etc.

              Not this again. Property as in real estate are different assets to Bitcoin and Gold, they don't all share the same characteristics, but something doesn't have to be tangible for it to have value, this is a fallacy. Also, just because something doesn't have cash flow, doesn't mean its not a good asset, eg Gold has no cash flow, some people still buy and hold it.

              On the other hand, bitcoin is not tangible and doesn't generate any income… you unfortunately have to wait for some other sucker person to come along and buy it off you for a higher price.

              How do Gold work? There's no income from gold and other commodities. What about shares of companies that do not pay a dividend?

              • SlickMick on 26/10/2023 - 09:50
                -1

                @bargainhunter168: You've kind of ranked investments there. Property - good. Gold - meh. Non-dividend-paying stocks - meh. Bitcoin - run.

              • ValueInvesting on 26/10/2023 - 10:52

                @bargainhunter168:

                Not this again. Property as in real estate are different assets to Bitcoin and Gold, they don't all share the same characteristics, but something doesn't have to be tangible for it to have value, this is a fallacy. Also, just because something doesn't have cash flow, doesn't mean its not a good asset, eg Gold has no cash flow, some people still buy and hold it.

                I wasn't comparing Bitcoin to property, that was @techlead.

                In any case, gold has advantages over Bitcoin as it's tangible and can be used as jewellery, in electronics, medicine etc.

                How do Gold work? There's no income from gold and other commodities. What about shares of companies that do not pay a dividend?

                There's demand for gold and other commodities because, among other reasons, they can be used to make things. What can you make with a Bitcoin?

                Shares of companies that don't pay dividends normally have better capital growth because the business will invest profits into growing the company etc. When you buy a share you own a small piece of an actual business… what do you get when you buy part of a Bitcoin? Nothing

                • bargainhunter168 on 26/10/2023 - 21:25

                  @ValueInvesting: In some cases being tangible is an advantage, for example, for shelter, its a huge advantage for your shelter to be tangible.

                  For investment purposes, not so much. Why would it matter whether you can touch your investment or not? What matters is the ability of that investment to be turned into something you want to buy or stored in a way that the purchasing power is preserved for a later date, being tangible or not is not really an advantage.

                  In fact, being tangible can be a disadvantage, for example, there is a cost to storing gold in a vault, you can also risk it by storing it for free in your house, but someone can take it.

  • bargainhunter168 on 25/10/2023 - 12:01
    +1

    Perception is on thing, reality is another. There's no escaping from the fact that Bitcoin was the best investment in terms of returns over the last 10 years, that's a fact, its immutable.

    Alot of the alts have failed, but the king, Bitcoin is going strong and has provided unrivalled returns over the last 10 years. One BTC is now worth over $53k AUD, let that sink in!

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 12:07

      was as high as 80 lol :')

      • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:16
        -2

        Stocks and property are also below their ATH as well.

        • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 14:19

          i swear i will never see my SPACESHIP portfolio back in black either, with the years of fees after the backflip on fee structures.

          • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:49
            +1

            @Jimothy Wongingtons: I know how you feel, from my own personal experience.

            Go to Coinmarketcap.com and look at the price chart of BTC between June 2013 and March 2017 to follow along.

            I have known about Bitcoin since its inception back in 2009 but always thought it was a scam until 2013.

            I decided to make my first trade to buy 2 BTC towards the end of 2013 for $800USD each. Almost immediately I was in the red, hitting a low of $200USD in Sept 2015. I was the laughing stock amongst my friends, who invested in property. I was not back to break even on my first trade until Jan 2017. Instead of selling, I continued buying throughout this period, by Jan 2017, I purchased an additional 68 BTC at an average price of $450USD each. So come Jan 2017, I was at a pretty nice profit, but I didn't sell and the rest is history.

            I continued to buy BTC and other alts through the year, I use the Dollar Cost Average (DCA) strategy.

            Not financial advice.

    • SlickMick on 26/10/2023 - 09:51
      +3

      There was a time when tulips were a great investment too

      • bargainhunter168 on 26/10/2023 - 21:28

        The comparison between tulips and Bitcoin has already been made, and it doesn't hold. Bitcoin are not tulips.

        • SlickMick on 27/10/2023 - 09:12
          +1

          Very good point. Tulips do actually have a value.

          • bargainhunter168 on 07/12/2023 - 09:48

            @SlickMick: This comment didn't age well. Have you checked the price of Bitcoin?

            • SlickMick on 07/12/2023 - 10:00

              @bargainhunter168: How so? Also, 6 weeks is an age??

              And no, I have no interest in bitcoin.

              I presume Bitcoin must be up for you to want to reopen this thread. So are you implying that at the moment Bitcoin also has a value?
              Sounds like tulips to me.

              • bargainhunter168 on 07/12/2023 - 10:05

                @SlickMick: How is Bitcoin like tulips to you?

                • SlickMick on 07/12/2023 - 10:10

                  @bargainhunter168: There was a time when people were willing to pay more for tulips than their intrinsic value. Sound familiar?

                  • bargainhunter168 on 07/12/2023 - 10:23

                    @SlickMick: That sounds like a lot of things.

                    Take real estate for example, a lot of properties are selling for more than their intrinsic value. Sound familiar? So properties are tulips too?

                    • SlickMick on 07/12/2023 - 10:30

                      @bargainhunter168: Yeah, if you believe property prices are a bubble ripe to be burst, it would be the same.

                      I disagree. So long as Australians want double lockup garages and big blocks and live in major cities, there will always be someone willing to pay more to get that premium piece of land.

  • onetwothreefour on 25/10/2023 - 12:25
    +2

    I literally buy high and sell low. I lost a lot of money a couple of years ago but was still hodling. I sold what I had last week only for the price of BTC to shoot up. I bought back in and the price started to go down.

    I think I should give up on crypto and stick to DCA'ing into ETF's.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 12:51

      I think I should give up on crypto and stick to DCA'ing into ETF's.

      same but what of the dizzying highs and the crushing lows of crypto trades unless you want to look at going into leverage trading options trading….

    • Malik Nasser on 25/10/2023 - 17:53

      So you DCA into ETF's, but you dont DCA into crypto?

      If you tried to trade ETF's like you did crypto what do you think the outcome would be?
      If you DCA'd into crypto, what would the outcome have been?

      I dont think the issue is with the underlying assets, but with your strategy.
      Just DCA into everything you invest in, and see how that goes.

      • onetwothreefour on 25/10/2023 - 18:24
        +2

        but with your strategy

        I agree with that but if I had of DCA into BTC over the last 2 years I would have been in the red now.

        • Malik Nasser on 25/10/2023 - 18:50
          +2

          Not by my calculations.
          If you invested $100 into Bitcoin on the last day of every month, since October 2021, you would have invested $2,400.
          You would have purchased 0.06003133 Bitcoin, which is now worth $3187 (based on current price of Bitcoin AUD$53,090).
          So nearly 33% return in 2 years. That is not too bad, especially compared to shares, bonds, or term deposits.

          • onetwothreefour on 25/10/2023 - 19:38
            +1

            @Malik Nasser: Not according to this website https://dcabtc.com/

            • Malik Nasser on 25/10/2023 - 20:51
              +1

              @onetwothreefour: I will give you the data I have used, and you can check its validity.
              I used end of day pricing from CoinMarketCap (https://coinmarketcap.com/).

              — Date — Bitcoin Price — $ Invest — Bitcoin Purchased
              2023-09-30 — $41,953.88 — $100.00 — 0.00238357
              2023-08-31 — $39,978.58 — $100.00 — 0.00250134
              2023-07-31 — $43,523.11 — $100.00 — 0.00229763
              2023-06-30 — $45,741.78 — $100.00 — 0.00218619
              2023-05-31 — $41,837.13 — $100.00 — 0.00239022
              2023-04-30 — $44,279.31 — $100.00 — 0.00225839
              2023-03-31 — $42,581.46 — $100.00 — 0.00234844
              2023-02-28 — $34,391.99 — $100.00 — 0.00290765
              2023-01-31 — $32,819.12 — $100.00 — 0.00304700
              2022-12-31 — $24,316.54 — $100.00 — 0.00411243
              2022-11-30 — $25,250.63 — $100.00 — 0.00396030
              2022-10-31 — $31,976.69 — $100.00 — 0.00312728
              2022-09-30 — $30,366.91 — $100.00 — 0.00329306
              2022-08-31 — $29,364.78 — $100.00 — 0.00340544
              2022-07-31 — $33,478.06 — $100.00 — 0.00298703
              2022-06-30 — $28,684.02 — $100.00 — 0.00348626
              2022-05-31 — $44,277.75 — $100.00 — 0.00225847
              2022-04-30 — $53,368.40 — $100.00 — 0.00187377
              2022-03-31 — $60,817.31 — $100.00 — 0.00164427
              2022-02-28 — $59,506.71 — $100.00 — 0.00168048
              2022-01-31 — $54,447.00 — $100.00 — 0.00183665
              2021-12-31 — $63,743.51 — $100.00 — 0.00156879
              2021-11-30 — $79,995.71 — $100.00 — 0.00125007
              2021-10-31 — $81,525.46 — $100.00 — 0.00122661

              Total $ invested: $2,400.00
              Total Bitcoin Purchased: 0.06003133
              Current Value: $ 3,187.06

            • Malik Nasser on 25/10/2023 - 20:54

              @onetwothreefour: Also that website is in USD.
              Convert that to AUD and I would assume you would get something similar to my calculations (conversion is required at time of each purchase).

        • bargainhunter168 on 26/10/2023 - 07:49

          Nope, if you DCA'd into BTC over the last 2 years, you'd be in the green. Actually, very in the green because you got two things going for you, there's the capital gains plus the depreciation of the AUD over the last 2 years would have super charged your gains.

        • bargainhunter168 on 07/12/2023 - 12:00
          -1

          That cannot possibly be true.

          Just checked, its not true.

          If you DCA into BTC over the last 2 years, you'd be in profit 55+%. right now.

  • stuffandthat on 25/10/2023 - 12:25
    +3

    Bought $100 of Eth 12 months ago. Currently sitting at $92. Heaps good.

    • bargainhunter168 on 07/12/2023 - 12:01

      How about now? What's your $100 of ETH worth now? I hope you still have it lmao.

  • yk300 on 25/10/2023 - 12:27
    +2

    I think, from a technology standpoint, blockchain brings a fresh perspective on software design patterns and models, which can lead to interesting design solutions. There is just too much hype and scams for it to be taken seriously. Some projects are way overvalued. Shame! Imagine if the public could control/transfer event ticket ownership for a few cents instead of paying so much to Ticketmaster.

    I don't particularly care about its monetary value (yet) even though I do have some. The sceptic in me agrees that crypto failed to function as a currency so far. However, I think crypto is here to stay.

    • Drpepper666 on 25/10/2023 - 12:30

      Blockchain is useless as a technology

      • SlickMick on 26/10/2023 - 09:56

        I avoided bitcoin because I thought blockchain was a terrible idea. An ever-growing ledger for every transaction, lose the file and you lose your asset. No thanks.
        But as blockchain was gaining traction I started doubting myself - until the ASX aborted their project. Now I just don't know whether it's worth looking into or not.

  • cloudy on 25/10/2023 - 12:40
    +4

    If history is any guide, whenever you start a post about how good Bitcoin is its time to sell and a crypto winter is imminent.

    • redfox1200 on 25/10/2023 - 12:52
      +4

      incase you havent noticed we have been in crypto winter for a while

  • JimmyF on 25/10/2023 - 12:47
    +7

    What's Your Perception on Cryptocurrencies?

    Funny we haven't heard boo out of Cryptocurrencies since the crash, but not its had a spike, the posts are back!

    You make of that what you will.

    • Protractor on 25/10/2023 - 14:49

      Yep, another jar of FIGJAM from the cryptonites.
      The tech seems to attract ppl who can't stop jibbering about the stuff. Emperors news clothes syndrome

  • thesilverstarman on 25/10/2023 - 12:47
    +3

    You keep popping up in a blatant attempt to not discuss but to promote crypto.
    But to deal with your comment. First, you need to understand what the ETF proposal actually is. A quick search has the info:
    "A bitcoin futures exchange-traded fund (ETF) issues publicly traded securities that offer exposure to the price movements of bitcoin futures contracts.
    Here’s how it works: An investment company creates a subsidiary that acts as a commodity pool. The pool in turn trades bitcoin futures contracts typically in an effort to mimic the spot price of bitcoin. But there are costs involved like “roll premiums” and management fees, among others. Plus, futures contracts don’t track spot prices exactly, so returns may never be as high as, or in sync with, spot market prices."

    Now, remembering that crypto is not an asset, and definitely not an investment, but is speculation, what does it mean?
    An investment house has found a way to disguise speculation as an investment can that be traded. There is no actual bitcoin behind it. The fund will not purchase bitcoin, but will trade in bitcoin futures. So unlike most ETF's, there are not actually any assets backing it up. In essence this means that it is no different to a horse betting syndicate. It takes what is risky and just makes it riskier. Hence the delay in getting approval. I'm sure it will get approval, but this will never be a rated ETF, in other words, it won't have an A, B, C etc rating.
    The news of this has already caused a rise in the value of bitcoin, which makes no sense if you know what is going on because it in no way adds to the value of Bitcoin. It also doesn't give Bitcoin any legitimacy, because it isn't even being traded in the fund.
    So would this give anyone a reason to buy crypto? No. There are no underlying fundamentals behind crypto, and the only reason it is at the prices it is today is speculation. It's a gamble. This in no way changes that.
    Yes, I have bought and sold crypto and still hold some, but it is money I can lose and not be worried about because I know I'm speculating. I am under no illusions and know that it has no intrinsic value, is not an asset and has not been legitimised by governments, other than El Salvador and the Central African Republic. Thats it. No other nations have legitimised it and classified it as official tender. Telling others that it has been is either misinformed or deliberately trying to fool others.

    • orangecarpet-22 on 25/10/2023 - 12:53
      +2

      You're talking about existing futures ETFs. There's proposals for spot ETFs.

      I would suggest looking into what money is, how wealth is stored etc to properly understand what BTC could be. Lyn Alden's Broken Money is a spectacular read on this topic. Go into it with an open mind.

      • thesilverstarman on 25/10/2023 - 12:57
        -2

        could be yes. Will be no. You only need to see the map showing where it can be legally traded to see that the majority of the globe either restricts or bans it. It will never become legal tender in Western nations unless they come up with their own versions. That's the facts, like it or not.
        And this is a spot etf. They are mimicking the movement in Bitcoin price, but without buying Bitcoin. I did state that "futures contracts don’t track spot prices exactly, so returns may never be as high as, or in sync with, spot market prices."

        • orangecarpet-22 on 25/10/2023 - 12:58
          +2

          The majority don't restrict or ban it, that is nonsense.

          It's a spot ETF with underlying BTC, just like the Gold ones. You need to do some more research.

          • thesilverstarman on 25/10/2023 - 13:02
            -2

            @orangecarpet-22: wrong. See the map at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cryptocurrency_by_…

            And no, it doesn't have underlying BTC at all. It trades BTC futures. I suggest you go look at the SEC filing.

            • orangecarpet-22 on 25/10/2023 - 13:55
              +2

              @thesilverstarman: It's definitely a spot Bitcoin ETF. There's a whole bunch of them awaiting approval but here is BlackRock's: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1980994/000143774923…

              You can read through it, but it's clearly in the first two lines of the summary. The iShares Bitcoin Trust (the “Trust”) is a Delaware statutory trust that issues shares (“Shares”) representing fractional undivided beneficial interests in its net assets. The assets of the Trust consist primarily of bitcoin held by a custodian on behalf of the Trust.

              Also, the Wikipedia article shows me it's legal in most places except for some small countries. The only one of economic important that matters is China.

            • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:20
              +1

              @thesilverstarman: You need to look more closely at the new spot BTC ETF filings which are yet to be approved by the SEC from Blackrock etc. These filings must have the underlying BTC in storage, that's why they are called spot ETF.

    • Iwantthebestprice on 25/10/2023 - 12:57

      Good read! Clarified a lot of what I’ve been seeing on the new lately, but not one news article went any deeper then say Bitcoin price is skyrocketing due to SEC approval blah blah..

      • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:22

        Have a look at the gold price after the first spot gold ETF was approved, hint, it went out of the solar system, price wise.

        That's why it is very consequential that a spot BTC ETF is approved in the US.

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:07
      +2

      There's a lot of incorrect assumptions here.

      1. Spot ETFs must hold the underlying assets, its in the filing
      2. Crypto IS an asset, ATO says so, so do other governments in the world

      know that it has no intrinsic value

      Its value is in its network and community

      has not been legitimised by governments

      It has been legitimised by governments, have you perused the ATO site lately? There's a cryptocurrency section about its treatment and how to report taxes for it, seems pretty legitimate to me. Also, we have a spot Bitcoin ETF already here

      No other nations have legitimised it and classified it as official tender.

      It doesn't have to be classified as official tender for it to be legitimised. That's not the test for whether its legitimate or not. If its not illegal to hold, then its legitimised.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 12:53

    one day i also hope uncle rekt can come back and tell us of the adventures they have been on where he made it with crypto and living the absoloute best life

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:07

      Yea, I wonder what happened with rekttrading

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/10/2023 - 15:27

        i like to believe he made it and is sipping cocktails on a private island with monkey buttlers and coconut nintendo

        • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:31

          All my friends who bought BTC back in 2013 with me and held it till 2020 have retired.

  • pegaxs on 25/10/2023 - 12:58

    BTC will be over $200,000 in about 4 weeks time…

    • Drpepper666 on 25/10/2023 - 13:03

      You mean $20,000

      • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:23

        I'd love for BTC to go back to $20k, so I can load up abit more.

        • BigBirdy on 26/10/2023 - 10:53

          Brilliant investment strategy. With luck it'll keep going down so we can keep growing our portfolio 😁

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:23

      I'd say that's unlikely, but not impossible.

      I will sell some BTC if it went to $200k in 4 weeks time, that kind of move will almost always be followed by a huge pull back, so I'd want to take advantage of that pull back to buy more.

      Not financial advice.

  • Fredfloresjr on 25/10/2023 - 13:18

    TO THE MOONNNNN

  • trapper on 25/10/2023 - 13:28
    +1

    I'm amazed it's lasted this long to be honest.

    I do have a few coins and there is money to be made, but fundamentally these things are worthless.

    It's kind of like trading the shares of a bankrupt company… but there wasn't even any company in the first place, so like trading shares of a company that never even existed lol

    • sidesw1pe on 25/10/2023 - 13:50

      People who say bitcoin is worthless really don't understand it.

      • trapper on 25/10/2023 - 15:02

        Fundamentally worthless doesn't mean people won't still pay good money for it.

        It's a 'token' that represents nothing.

        If other people value these tokens that represent nothing, then they do have 'value' - but fundamentally, it's a worthless token that represents nothing. :D

      • SlickMick on 26/10/2023 - 10:04

        Okay not worthless, just a little less value than cash. And I wouldn't be investing in paper money either.

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:24

      It's kind of like trading the shares of a bankrupt company… but there wasn't even any company in the first place, so like trading shares of a company that never even existed lol

      This is true for zombie coins, like ETC, BCH etc. This certainly do not apply for actively developed chains like BTC, ETH etc. There's alot of value of these networks, hence its price is going up.

      • trapper on 25/10/2023 - 15:14

        'There's alot of value of these networks' - what does this actually mean.

        These networks costs a lot of money and energy to run, and produce absolutely nothing. So what is this value?

        • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:24
          -2

          The amount of money and energy to run is a direct function of the value people place on it. I highly recommend you read the Bitcoin whitepaper by Satoshi Nakamoto which describes this relationship.

          Its all supply and demand. Miners are incentivized to mine Bitcoin because there's a profit to be made. The network can run on 2 computers or 2 million or more computers. As Bitcoin's perceived value drops, miners will also drop off as well, reducing the amount of energy used in the network. The Bitcoin network do NOT require a lot of energy to run, as mentioned before, it could and did operate on 2 computers in the beginning, its just more now because of demand, which is due to its perceived value.

          produce absolutely nothing

          That's not true. It provides a service, a way to transfer value on a decentralised and censorship resistant network.

          Have you considered how much energy all the banks use to operate the traditional financial network? CBA, ANZ, Mastercard, Amex, Visa etc all use vast amount of energy to operate.

  • freefall101 on 25/10/2023 - 13:56

    The key to making money out of any pump and dump scheme is to get out before the crunch. And it's just a revolving door of pump and dumps, price goes up on speculation then crashes back down again later when there's nothing new to be squeezed out of it.

    The best place to be is the people pushing to get ETF approval. Buy low then go on a huge campaign to push for legitimacy. At each step along the way it'll keep increasing the value of it, right up the point ETFs are created. Then you sell, because it's hit peak legitimacy (for that round, anyway). They have the most knowledge on how they're progressing and will have lobbyists and teams listening in at every door.

    The key isn't to know anything about bitcoin, that's meaningless, it's the likelihood of the FEC legitimising it. The boys with the big dollars are building risk models around that kind of thing, and plenty of people are on reddit/twitter/whatever pumping hard that this will be the next big thing. But be prepared to be broke if it doesn't happen. But remember that you're miles behind the 8 ball on this one and that the current price already reflects the risk of it getting approved or not.

    Personally, I gave up on it because making money off it felt like cheating people who legitimately thought bitcoin was a good idea. All those "HODL"ers are just asking to get milked of their money. I prefer to invest in actual things these days.

  • kHartouN on 25/10/2023 - 14:15
    +1

    to outright call crpyto, the entire space, a scam, I'm guessing you're some senile delusional old boomer who still thinks property and accessing a mortgage is still greatly accessible to everyone under the age of 30 if they just "work a bit harder".

    yes there are scams in crypto, there are scams in everything that involves money.

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:25
      +1

      There are also scams in property too. I see some sob property story nearly once a week on mainstream media.

  • Protractor on 25/10/2023 - 14:50
    +4

    Another 'shilling' thread.

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 14:51
      -4

      Its a discussion thread.

      Time and the market have proven Bitcoin sceptics wrong, so far.

      • Protractor on 25/10/2023 - 14:56
        +1

        "Its a discussion thread."

        Sure,sure

        • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:09

          It sure is!

  • localhost on 25/10/2023 - 15:26
    +3

    Hello again my friend. So BTC jumped a little bit and you are getting excited again. Don't! (this is not a financial advice)

    • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:27

      Do you have any thoughts on where BTC is headed in the short, medium and long term then?

      Not financial advice of course, just asking for your opinion.

      For the record, I'm more excited when BTC was sub $20k because I can then buy some more.

      • localhost on 25/10/2023 - 15:31
        +1

        Well, it won't jump to 100k, that's for sure. It will float between 20-40k (USD) and that's it. Still people don't know what to do with BTC and trying to convince other it's an investment option.

        As many people said: BTC is a solution for a problem, that doesn't exists yet.

        • techlead on 25/10/2023 - 15:38

          Interesting.

          So you think Bitcoin will never breach $100k USD?

          As many people said: BTC is a solution for a problem, that doesn't exists yet.

          The people in Turkiye, Venezuela, Argentina and other countries with very high inflation rates would like a word.
          The problems are:
          1. Continual depreciation of fiat currencies,
          2. Censorship and seizure from corrupt and tyrannical governments, and
          3. High cross border transaction fees.
          Those are the major ones, I'm sure there are others.

          • localhost on 25/10/2023 - 15:41
            +3

            @techlead: You must be joking.
            Let me tell you about one thing only - transaction fees. How much do you think is transaction fee for large sums?
            Recently moved 90K from Europe to here and total fees were something like 250-300AUD.
            That is less than 0.3%.

            Some days BTC drops 10% just in a blink - and you are speaking about high transaction fees :)

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