Need Advice on Going to Court for a Traffic Offence That I Did Not Do

Lmirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 17:22
Last edited 16/09/2023 - 00:21 by 1 other user

Hi OzBargain community please advise. I was pulled over by a highway patrol car and fined for something I did not do.

When I was pulled over, I stated I made a mistake without hearing the charge under the impression I am being fined for crossing unbroken line near intersection. At the time I was informed by the officer there is evidence on the car camera and he has switched on the body cam. I requested to view the evidence and have been provided with access to the body cam only (not the car footage) on body cam officer walking to the car said I did a U-turn and I did not hear the charge while seated inside the car.

Picture

I have not had any driving offence in the last 15 years and my review has been rejected, is it worth going to court? I feel gutted knowing i am being penalised for something I did not do, easier to accept if I was at fault.

Fine is $283 with 2 demerit points. Lawyer will charge me more and not sure what my chances are as it seems I am admitting my mistake.

Thank you each one of you appreciate your valuable advice
I have now paid the fine and off my mind. it is not worth waiting for the court date and then preparing for court. minimum 2 days 1. for not guilty plea and 1 for trial
I have 11 points left and some lessons learned

  1. Only provide name and address when copper stops anything else can get you in trouble
  2. There is GIPA if anyone needs access to any camera footage
  3. Keep away from police and lawyer's there are some bad ones

OZbargain community is priceless !!!

Happy weekend everyone

Poll Options expired

  • 22
    Yes take it to court
  • 21
    No not worth going to court
Automotive

Comments

    • AustriaBargain on 15/09/2023 - 20:31

      You can’t handle the truth!

      • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 20:33

        i have seen so many movies and court dramas and yet i was so unprepared for such situation. doh

        • bdl on 15/09/2023 - 23:21

          wtf

      • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 20:34
        +1

        FYI The copper does look like Jack Nicholson. LOL

        • Protractor on 15/09/2023 - 20:51

          He knows where you live…..

          • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 20:54

            @Protractor: Here comes johnny !! nah mate too far for him to go.

            • Protractor on 15/09/2023 - 20:55
              +1

              @mirali5: He has a large reach…Mhowoaoaoaher.
              Anyway you put this behind you and sleep well.

              • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 20:57

                @Protractor: Thank you. It does effect you unfortunately and we let these things slip becuase we dont want to stand even when we are right

  • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 20:58

    on the positives now i have a bit more workign knowledge and can handle being stopped by police

    • Euphemistic on 15/09/2023 - 21:24
      +6

      Meanwhile the rest of us are still trying to work out what you did and what the offence on the fine is.

      • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 22:22

        i did not do anything the officer made a mistake and fined me for u turn. i was silly and admitted to whatever he was charging me for without asking waht did i do.

        • Euphemistic on 16/09/2023 - 06:08
          +4

          So what rule is broken according to the fine? You still haven’t said that. It’s not hard to read the fine, then quote what rule is broken. There may be a technicality that means he said u turn but it technically is the same as another action.

          I’m presuming you entered the right lane, changed your mind. Changed back to the straight through lane and then further down the road were pulled over. Perhaps you did not give way to a vehicle behind properly, failed to give enough indicator time before changing lanes or something else similar.

          But again, you still haven’t described the situation as it unfolded. You’ve discussed on the cop walking and talking which is not an action that would have caused you to be pulled over. For all we know the cop said something about the I turn he had to do to come after you.

  • Iwantthebestprice on 15/09/2023 - 21:24
    +2

    You admitted fault for doing an illegal turn and now you want to contest it. Uphill battle for sure.
    I’ve been to court contesting a highway patrol issued fine and I can assure you in almost all cases unless you have evidence the court will side with the police officer.
    I would save the lawyer fees and cop it as a life lesson to never admit guilt.
    If you have dash cam to show you did not do what HO is saying go to court, if you dont, save your $$ and swallow your pride unfortunately

  • crazycat on 15/09/2023 - 21:32
    +4

    cop the charge, pay the fine, stop watching police tik toks and move on with life

    • AustriaBargain on 15/09/2023 - 22:10
      +1

      Am I being detained?

      • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 22:23

        no one is getting detained hope not :P

  • Wiadro on 15/09/2023 - 23:04
    +3

    why didnt you fight the cop

    • mirali5 on 15/09/2023 - 23:19
      +1

      he was bigger than me !

      • Wiadro on 15/09/2023 - 23:50

        That hasn’t stopped people in the past

    • JIMB0 on 16/09/2023 - 08:34

      Or give a bribe.

      • Gunnar on 16/09/2023 - 13:56
        +1

        I used to work with someone years ago who would offer favours to cops to get out of her infringements. They worked for her on more than one occasion

        Should have done that OP, treat that copper like he was Evian water

        • WhyAmICommenting on 17/09/2023 - 21:22

          Wow, great visual. Not that I needed that.

        • Protractor on 18/09/2023 - 17:52

          Hahaheha, imagine the subsequent Ozb post about it from the OP. LOL

  • drewbytes on 16/09/2023 - 08:14
    +5

    For the love of God, it's been asked numerous times, what was the offence? Type it here exactly as it appears on the infringement. No-one still understands exactly what you were fined for.

    • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 13:26

      offence - Make a U-turn at the intersection with traffic lights

  • garddn on 16/09/2023 - 08:31
    +1

    Recently copped a red arrow fine, 480 bucks. I asked to go on a payment plan and are paying it back at 10 bucks a fortnight.

  • Levils on 16/09/2023 - 09:47

    OP, if you have a smartphone, check your location history on the day in the mapping application you use. There's a chance of it having a detailed record that proves your driving route.

    • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 13:25

      i wish i dint switch off the google setting for privacy concerns now i have enabled them after this incident

  • The tiger on 16/09/2023 - 11:59
    -5

    In most South East Asian countries kids are taught policemen are people‘s friends. They would love to help people in need. Not here though. I had the experience of being shouted with rudeness upon being pulled over and not remaining in the seat—another time I was shown rudely where to pay the renting fees over a rented public park ( I was new to the place and what a happy incident to see two policemen on petrol then) .My honest opinion: Try to avoid / approach policemen here especially if they are on duty.
    I suggest in your case just pay the fine and forget the issue. Your life will be going on happier after paying the fine. Trust me.

    • SpicyStew on 16/09/2023 - 14:58

      What about policewomen?

    • adzyau on 17/09/2023 - 18:26

      Why did you get out of the seat?

      • WhyAmICommenting on 17/09/2023 - 21:25

        I’ve heard of a meet them in the “neutral” ground in between vehicles idea, can’t remember if I tried it. Do not try in America.

      • Euphemistic on 18/09/2023 - 13:40

        I asked a copper if he minded if I got out of the car when stopped for an RBT once. Been driving for a while and wanted to stretch my legs.

        I wouldn’t hop out first though.

    • Protractor on 18/09/2023 - 17:55
      -1

      That's because they prefer arrogance and bullying attitudes over crime prevention via public relations. That's why they carry more than a tradies toolbox, and see 90+ YO ladies as a threat.
      There's little if any independent oversight. When they shoot someone they investigate themselves.Joke

      • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:28

        Interestingly i was asked to approach the officer who fined me for evidence and he was arrogant to begin in his firstconversation. after speaking to the unit that manages GIPA. I called up the station and said i need to send and email pls provide emial address he called up second time and was polite and said i can view the fotage at the station. as an officer of Law you are supposed to uphold law bad experience has taught me lesson

        • Protractor on 19/09/2023 - 12:45

          The olden days principle of 'serve & protect' is long since dead.

          What does the footage show? Let this forum know the outcome

          • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 13:24

            @Protractor: there is no footage of u-turn only body cam of when he stopped me
            an arrogant old copper who has 20/20 vision who imagined/saw me do it

  • SpicyStew on 16/09/2023 - 14:30
    -2

    FTP

  • TilacVIP on 16/09/2023 - 19:42
    +1

    Just pay it. Risk to reward not worth it (you'll be stressing until the court date, and even more so on the day), and as others have said, unless you have sufficient evidence of your innocence, you'll most likely lose.

    • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:29
      +1

      thanks you and yes i did lose my sleep over this

  • ribze1 on 16/09/2023 - 20:10
    +1

    Can't see how (or why) a copper would fine you for a u-turn if you didn't actually do it.

    • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:30

      if not for the experience i would very much side by you on this.

  • tunzafun001 on 16/09/2023 - 20:12
    +2

    Use your "Section 10" rights.

    No lawyer required. You can get some assistance on what to do from legal aid before you go to court.

    This basically gets you off your first offence if you have a good driving record

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBAt-R2iWsU

    I got pulled over for taking off through a red light (yes, he claims i pulled away while still red..and he was along side me ..which I was aware. I obviously didnt). It was rediculous as I was crossing a 6 lane road in peak traffic, if it was red i would have been killed. Found a servo at the intersection and they gave me cctv footage showing the light was green when I went through. Sent it in. The fine still stood.
    The answer was a section 10. Shouldnt have to use it, but its there

    • Love a bargain on 16/09/2023 - 21:20
      +1

      That's so wrong. Why would the fine be allowed to stay if there's hard evidence that you didn't run the light?

      • tunzafun001 on 16/09/2023 - 22:28
        +5

        Review said they werent allowed to open a usb drive with the video on it….and gave it back to me bent in half (very mature).

        Magistrate said I need to go to a high court if presenting evidence (this is luck of the draw with Magistrates…shouldnt be ..but is). If you get a decent human they will look at the 30 seconds of evidence (I had printed colour screenshots as well). This douche bag said he would throw me in gaol if I said one more word about "undeniable evidence".
        So my experience was a very dodgy officer. I actually think he was off his chops, and then an equally dodgey magistrate. But thats life.

        • Love a bargain on 17/09/2023 - 17:00

          Not blaming the victim here but was there an option to emailed that evidence (video and still images) to them?

          • tunzafun001 on 17/09/2023 - 20:47

            @Love a bargain: There was an option to apply for a review (postal only).

            • Love a bargain on 18/09/2023 - 10:34

              @tunzafun001: I guess they expected you to print the still images and send them in. Or include a link to a cloud location/ youtube where you've uploaded the clip in your written application. They should have made it clear though.

          • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 15:35

            @Love a bargain: You can attach images with the review. i did and it was of no use

        • WhyAmICommenting on 17/09/2023 - 21:27

          Mother-(profanity)!

    • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:33

      thanks. how did you get servo footage ? i would still challenge it even after paying the fine if i can find the evidence to prove no u turn. if its his word against mine i am sure court will side by the officer

      • tunzafun001 on 19/09/2023 - 14:26
        +1

        Just walked in and asked if they have any cameras pointing towards the intersection. They then gave me footage 30 mins either side of my alleged fine. Chemist on the other side did the same. I just said it was in relation to a traffic incident that I was involved with. I also stood on the traffic island and filmed the full light sequence from the officers perspective (which showed that if I did run the red, then the cars waiting to the side would have driven across). However, in the video they didn't move. BUT… in the end it made no difference and was "allegedly' never looked at by anyone. Like most people, I dont have the time to fight it further. Went to the Magistrate level. Hence, try your luck with getting a decent magistrate. If not, use your Section 10 rights and move on.

  • nosey on 16/09/2023 - 20:27

    Just pay and take it on chin (rightly or wrongly).

    • Scantu on 17/09/2023 - 17:20
      -2

      observe, standard australian troglodyte bootlicking behaviour

      • nosey on 17/09/2023 - 21:25
        +1

        Or learn from my experience. Didnt speed, police said i did. Go to court with lawyer. Judge says both I and police officer sound believable but says on balance he sides with police. Lots of annoyance, feelings of betrayal and money….just pay.

        • WhyAmICommenting on 17/09/2023 - 21:28

          This thread is starting to make me angry lol

          • nosey on 17/09/2023 - 21:32
            +2

            @WhyAmICommenting: Worst thing was lawyer acting on behalf of police kept saying they werent ready on each court date. Prob happened about 3 times. Each time im paying for a lawyer. Long enough in past that im not angry, but i still havent forgiven the NSW police force (much respect to the force in general though).

        • Euphemistic on 18/09/2023 - 13:41

          Was there any evidence from either side or was it both personal opinion? Court isn’t going to believe you ‘weren’t speeding’ when a cop says you did unless you’ve got something to show for it. Otherwise everyone would go to court and have their fine overturned.

          • nosey on 18/09/2023 - 17:06
            +1

            @Euphemistic: I was doing limit, 3 cars sped past me doing 130km plus. After a few mins cop pulls me over and says "gotcha". Police footage when i obtained it just shows him speeding off from a side road, driving for a few mins, then pulling me over. I tried to argue that his video doesnt show anything other than me being pulled over. Judge said as above :(

            Felt so hard done by, that's why I challenged it. In end it didn't matter. Fine stood, judge said I don't have to 'pay costs' just my own legal fees. Was a bitter pill to swallow. Can't add anything more, as it was a simple my word against his shit video and I lost (and didn't get fine overthrown).

            • Euphemistic on 18/09/2023 - 18:15
              +1

              @nosey: That’s a bad situation and you’ve every right to be upset. I would hope this is not a common circumstance.

            • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:22

              @nosey: thats what the majority of opinion is. not worth going to court and when i pressed for video the copper said quote "i dont need evidence i saw you do it" *specsavers *

        • sumyungguy on 18/09/2023 - 17:16
          +1

          NSW highway patrol claimed I was doing 150 on LIDAR, I believe it was the car passing me at the time. DQ 6m, $970 fine, 5 demerits. I appealed but serious offences don't qualify for appeal. Chose court appearance, then realised I would have to subpoena and view their ICV in the courthouse in the distant regional town where the alleged offence occurred. Couldn't be bothered spending any more cash, pleaded guilty, got fined $150 plus costs $168 = $318. No demerits.

          • adzyau on 18/09/2023 - 19:53

            @sumyungguy: Good outcome for you. So how fast were you going then?

            • sumyungguy on 18/09/2023 - 19:59

              @adzyau: 100, I was driving a rented Corolla, pretty hard to do 150

              • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 11:08

                @sumyungguy: You’d be surprised how fast rentals can go. I had a 1.6l carb engine automatic wagon built in 1974 that would do 150 with enough wind up. A modern corolla should do 150 easily.

  • Kamsi on 17/09/2023 - 11:27

    I use to argue and saying stupid things to the police during pull over by the cops but now I if I do get pull over I keep my mouth shut and sometimes believe it or not I don't get a fine :)

    • Euphemistic on 17/09/2023 - 15:02

      Th e attitude of the driver does certainly affect the outcome. Suck it up, cop it on the chin and move on. If you’re adamant you are innocent state your opinion clearly, concisely and without getting agro then take the fine and take it to court.

      Getting aggressive is a recipe for the cop getting stubborn then working out how they can make your day worse.

  • pandawelch on 17/09/2023 - 12:56
    +1

    Consider youself lucky there wasn't a hit and run down the road with a car matching your description. Now at least next time you know DON'T SAY ANYTHING.

  • Scantu on 17/09/2023 - 17:14
    -3

    Take it to court - do not be bullied like this.

    You will get the fine removed and expenses paid.

    Paying the fine is not an admission of guilt. How gross of the officer to lie about this and shame on everyone who recommended that you take the fine.

    • Bargainitis on 17/09/2023 - 18:01

      lmao

      • Scantu on 17/09/2023 - 18:19

        wow really got me there

        • Bargainitis on 17/09/2023 - 19:15

          You must be a child to think that people here asking for advice aren't lying through their teeth.

          Thus, we respond accordingly.

          Go to sleep, its past your bedtime now.

          • Scantu on 17/09/2023 - 19:21

            @Bargainitis: So crazy that you think your opinion matters to me! What a wonderful make believe world you must live in

            • Bargainitis on 18/09/2023 - 10:01

              @Scantu: lmao

              you'll get far in life.

              • Scantu on 18/09/2023 - 21:05

                @Bargainitis: What sort of aspects of life are you talking about, relationships, wealth, because I'm tick and tick across those so unless you've got some other things I can confidently tell you to go eat a bag of d1cks :)

    • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:14

      few friends and a criminal lawyer i consulted. advised if i dont lose the lic not worth the court hassle. thank you for the advise

      • Scantu on 19/09/2023 - 16:15

        I wouldn't let an accusation of committing a crime I hadn't done slide, but you do you 👍

  • frostman on 17/09/2023 - 20:55

    If memory serves correct.
    Once you're in the lane that has the Arrow marked on road for you to turn right, you must turn right and unable to shift out of the lane.
    The 'unbroken' part means people on the adjacent lane can merge into it and also turn right..

    • howcan on 17/09/2023 - 21:22

      You can still change lanes out of the turning lane before you get to the intersection, as long as you're not crossing a solid white line. The lane arrows are telling you what action you need to perform once you reach the intersection.

      • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:07

        i thought i crossed an unbroken line hence the i made a mistake but when i got the fine it said u-turn

  • curtturtle on 18/09/2023 - 11:30

    It really sucks that this happened. This is the kind of stuff that makes people less likely to trust the police. Just keep in mind for next time. Don't give any more than is needed to the cop. Wait for them to ask you something, give only what is needed. It sucks we don't live in a world where the cops actually work with the driver to develop good driving habits rather than just fine people.

    • Euphemistic on 18/09/2023 - 13:45
      +1

      As far I can see the OP hasn’t come back with exactly what they were fined for nor described what they did before and after the alleged offence. I have no idea how you can be so sure they are innocent and the cop was not justified in pulling them over. To me, the fact they aren’t elaborating on the incident and a review was rejected is a sign of some form of guilt.

      Sure, don’t offer more than is requested, but don’t believe a highly one sided story designed to elicit a particular response.

      • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:11

        If i was guilty of a u-turn i won't be bothed to get the video evidence under GIPA. Travel to the police station to see the video and etc. FYI. there is acost to access the video which is $30 per hour of footage they need to review and you need to provide your credit card infor wth the application.

        • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 11:14

          Again: what was the offence recorded on the fine? You say u-turn but haven’t backed that up.

          • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:16

            @Euphemistic: offence - Make a U-turn at the intersection with traffic lights
            and no i did not take a u-turn if i did it be easier to pay for the fault and move on.

            • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 13:41
              -1

              @mirali5: you state you obviously didn’t do that, but changed lanes from the turn lane to the straight through lane.

              Have you got location records on your phone or GPS? Would that show you didn’t u-turn? We’re there other similar cars in the area that did do a u-turn? Did you do a u-turn further back up the road somewhere? I’m not saying you’re not telling the truth, but it doesn’t add up. If you clearly haven’t done a u-turn at any point while driving that day why did the officer say you did a u-turn? To me this doesn’t seem to fit unless you legitimately got a dirty cop who fitted you up for some other reason.

              • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 14:00

                @Euphemistic: The officer made a mistake and i was hoping once he reviewed he will realise it and rectify.
                Issue is i cannot get ICV (in car Video) to support my case. i am denied access to ICV. so yes Bad Cop

                • howcan on 19/09/2023 - 16:21

                  @mirali5: It's not really clear why you've been denied access to the ICV. It seems you've gone through some GIPA process and only got the bodycam footage or something - what was the response when rang the relevant Highway Patrol office/station that officer was attached to and requested to view the ICV of the incident? Just a flat out no? Or what was the reason they're not letting you view the ICV? Have you spoken to a sergeant at the station or escalated it any further?

                  • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 16:28

                    @howcan: ICV is not being provided as i did not do a U-Turn and the copper realises his mistake
                    Sargent was the one who pulled me over. and yes i escalated back to NSWPF my 5th communication advising i have not received the ICV footage.
                    my request for ICV footage is ignored with the following statement "ICV dosent always capture the offence" i saw you do it take it to court if you want

                    • howcan on 19/09/2023 - 16:34
                      +1

                      @mirali5: Then he's calling your bluff.. they'll need to provide you a copy as part of the brief of evidence before the court date. If you're confident the ICV captured the incident and he's just covering his arse now just elect to take it to court, when they review the case they'll end up withdrawing prior to it being heard. Don't forget to drop a complaint against the officer once it's all done.

                      • Ash-Say on 24/09/2023 - 20:52

                        @howcan: What will happen to dogdy sergeant if ylu complaint against him? W
                        I think he would make your day to dayife hell.

    • mirali5 on 19/09/2023 - 11:04

      Thank you. won't be repeating the same mistake of blabering

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