How Does Insurance Find if Electricals Were Done by a Licensed Person or Unlicensed Person?

pc007 on 06/09/2023 - 11:36

I may be dumb here but still wanted to understand it clearly. I checked with few people but no one could answer correctly.

I know someone who make electrical updates in his home by watching YouTube videos. He is confident but not licensed.

If anything ever goes wrong, how insurance can tell if it was done by a pro or not?

If there is no way to confirm that cause of issue(let's say fire) is because of electrical wire. Or if insurance do find out, then how can they confirm if fault was from a licensed person, unlicensed person or just naturally occurred?

Electrical & Electronics Insurance

Comments

  • chuneeperformance on 06/09/2023 - 11:38
    +8

    Electricians issue a certificate for any works completed.

    • pc007 on 06/09/2023 - 11:43
      +7

      I had my fans replaced once with all new switches. But never gave me a certificate or anything else.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 06/09/2023 - 12:27

        Cashie?

        • pc007 on 06/09/2023 - 13:10
          +2

          no. Fans were replaced by the company under warranty. They hired some local electrician to do it. But never provided any paperwork.

      • SlickMick on 07/09/2023 - 09:07
        +1

        same. I've spent $1000s on electricians over the years, but I've never received a certificate

    • boomramada on 06/09/2023 - 11:43

      Its a new thing, as far as I know, applies in SA and ACT, not sure about other states.

      • terrys on 07/09/2023 - 08:47

        That's for wiring a house during constructing, connecting and disconnecting the power and work and repair on the same. I suspect (and hope) the OP may be referring to putting in a double-socket with USB from Aldi, changing a light-fitting etc.

        In the latter case, the insurance companies are fairly well experienced in assessing what happens if it goes wrong…

    • bobbified on 06/09/2023 - 11:45
      +21

      "Well Mr Insurance Assessor, the certificate was burnt in the same fire!"

      • boomramada on 06/09/2023 - 11:46

        haha its on the database. :)

        • bobbified on 06/09/2023 - 11:46
          +2

          oh damn! hahaha

          • Nugs on 06/09/2023 - 13:22
            +7

            @bobbified: "Well Mr Insurance Assessor, that was done pre certificate system? And or before I moved in
            .

            • Hirolol on 07/09/2023 - 07:24

              @Nugs: “Don’t worry, he may have been unlicensed, but he was confident”

    • AndyC1 on 06/09/2023 - 20:20
      +3

      Never seen a sparky give a certificate. New houses I can understand.

    • LFO on 07/09/2023 - 10:46

      Nope.
      Not a "certificate" as such.

      An invoice perhaps/probably but not a certificate.

  • cauilfield on 06/09/2023 - 11:48
    +1

    VIC: Certificate of Electrical Safety is lodged with Energy Safe Victoria
    NSW: Certificate of Compliance is lodged with NSW Fair Trading
    Other states: unsure but assume something similar

    • 87percent on 06/09/2023 - 11:50

      should the end user receive anything about the work? I've had a couple of fans replaced under warranty, by a licensed electrician, and didn't receive anything… besides email confirmation that the work was being done

      • boomramada on 06/09/2023 - 11:58

        You need to ask, one electrician said, not to worry, your job isn't that complicated, this is to replace a power switch. lol Too much paper work for them?
        If they like paper work, they wouldn't be a electrician LOL

      • pc007 on 06/09/2023 - 12:12

        same here. Not sure if they ever update anywhere. I didn't receive any email as well.

      • cauilfield on 06/09/2023 - 15:06
        +1

        in VIC, they must provide a certificate for any wiring work… if they replace fans that are plug and play - normally you no wiring is needed

  • Hybroid on 06/09/2023 - 12:16
    +2

    Insurance will ask for evidence that it was undertaken by licensed contractor. Usually a certificate but you can point to a receipt/invoice or provide company details for them to verify. If you cannot, they may default to not done by licensed person scenario.

  • xuqi on 06/09/2023 - 12:18
    +1

    We're always sent a tax invoice via email by the electrician / plumbing company, stating work done, charges, which includes all relevant licensing info.

  • jthomaz5 on 06/09/2023 - 12:19

    I think in WA at least, electrician's have to get you a Electrical Safety Certificate once they complete any addition or installation work. But I don't think they need to give you one if its just a replacement or repair.

  • ytthr on 06/09/2023 - 12:27
    +1

    Our owner's corporation had many air conditioners installed over a number of years by an unlicensed installer.
    (Don't forget Air Conditioners also need power.)
    It eventually took 6 months and an FOI request to discover he was not licensed.
    There were also no consequences for the installer, he is still installing Air Conditioners today.

    There is no official simple way you can check if an Air conditioning installer is licensed.
    After this experience, I have wondered if the same applies to the other trades/licenses.

    Must add - I got a heap of paper work from a solar install, that seems very regulated.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 06/09/2023 - 12:29
      +1

      solar install that seems very regulated

      I would hope so, very high voltages involved!

      • terrys on 07/09/2023 - 08:50
        +1

        I don't know why you got negged.

        I consider a single story "very high" if I haven't got a ladder and need to get down.

    • Sega on 07/09/2023 - 09:28

      If you install split system air conditioners you are supposed to be licensed under the ARC (aust refrigeration council). They have their own data base and from memory could be searched. Having said that, it’s per business not individual, so you search the business. But individuals are licensed and linked ad working for the business. It’s a national body not state.

      As for general states in Vic an electrical cert of compliance is completed by inviduual sparkie, who is linked as working for the business and the cert is issued from the business.

      It’s been a few years now but I used to do admin for a sparkie business and I did this daily (ie the sparkles would do the work and advise me and I would do the actual lodging etc functions of certifications).

      If a sparkie doesn’t have good admin support (most don’t … small business…another overhead). It’s not usually a priority to them. …. Self regulation pitfalls.

    • Odin on 07/09/2023 - 11:01
      +1

      Other than gassing, air conditioning installs are one of the easiest things to do in the world. I'm not surprised that unlicensed people are doing it considering how simple it is.

  • Protractor on 06/09/2023 - 12:30
    +1

    " I know someone who "…Hahah

    Good insurance companies send the forensic crew around. (Electrical Police Division) DNA swabs, question neighbours, review CCTV, spy on occupants, and compare carbon dating swabs of each electrical circuit,compare colour ,age and thickness of wiring. Just the usual money saving tactics.

    • LFO on 07/09/2023 - 10:54

      They have satellites from the Google Maps keeping an eye on everything done.

      And they have nocturnal views as well.
      X-rays too.

      They know everything!

      /madOff

  • trapper on 06/09/2023 - 12:47
    +4

    There is no way to really know for sure, especially for repairs and minor changes.

    But if a fire was actually determined to be caused by some bad wiring, then the investigation would start from there.

    So if you are going to DIY then make sure you know what you are doing!

  • JIMB0 on 06/09/2023 - 13:29

    Any unlicensed work done before you bought the place is covered by insurance.

  • GordonD on 06/09/2023 - 14:38
    +3

    Certificates of Compliance are only required for major jobs.

    After a fire or other incident they look at what caused the incident, like how the wiring was done. If it wasn't done to standard, and that caused the fire, you'd need to be able to provide a documentation trail that points them towards the person who did it.

    • timthetoolman on 06/09/2023 - 17:21

      So if someone adds a couple of new downlights, do they need a certificate?

  • jv on 06/09/2023 - 15:22
    -1

    I may be dumb
    I checked with few people but no one could answer correctly.

    How did you know they weren't correct?

  • big1964 on 06/09/2023 - 16:34
    +2

    Insurance would probably ask the police to investigate if they thought there was something sus with how the fire started, (wiring) if they ask who did the electrical work and you say don't know I would say it would be a long drawn out process to make a claim.
    Insurance companies just don't hand out money willy nilly!!!

    • SlickMick on 07/09/2023 - 09:11
      +1

      Tell me about it. I can't remember the last time I successfully made an insurance claim. I've had some legitimate claims denied recently, so seriously considering not bothering any more.

    • jackspratt on 07/09/2023 - 16:38

      Why would police care unless there was evidence of a crime?

      • big1964 on 07/09/2023 - 18:47

        If your house burns down the police would be called first thing they would be looking for is the cause ( like dodgy wiring) the insurance company would want to see the police report if nothing sinister found then the claim would probably be given .

  • viTRifY13 on 06/09/2023 - 19:53
    +7

    Would recommend that certain someone familiarise themselves with the following document. Electrical wiring isn't difficult and it's significantly over regulated to protect a) unions and b) idiots. New Zealand and Australia have the same electrical standard.

    https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/dmsdocument/1580-new-zealand-el…

    • iCandy on 07/09/2023 - 08:18
      -1

      An electrician told my uncle how to make his own extension lead. He died by electrocution later that day.

      • Protractor on 07/09/2023 - 09:06
        +1

        The uncle or the sparky died?

      • viTRifY13 on 07/09/2023 - 19:18
        -1

        Nice scare mongering tactics. You need electric current to pass across your heart / spine to disrupt the heart rate rhythm to die (our 240v domestic). Must be all sorts of special to do that with an electrical cord. Did he try making a double male extension cord? Like I said, it's over regulated to protect against b) idiots

        • iCandy on 08/09/2023 - 07:23
          -1

          Wow. You’re unbelievable. I was 14 at the time so don’t know all of the details but an electrician showed him how to make an extension cord that morning. He used it in the caravan he and his new wife were living in. He climbed onto the roof of the caravan for some reason, I’m assuming to fix something. He was thrown off the roof by the current and was discovered by 2 women who didn’t know how to do CPR. Happy now??

          • viTRifY13 on 08/09/2023 - 15:00

            @iCandy: Sorry for your loss. I find a lot of unfounded scare mongering occurs whenever topics suggest the mere hint of allowing responsible individuals doing traditionally traded work. As my original comment said - electrical wiring isn't difficult and can 100% be done safely with just a little bit of knowledge (hence why I posted NZ's code of practice for homeowners doing their own electrical work). In my opinion, it is a million times better / safer to educate people on how to do things correctly and leave it up to them on their capability / competence, then it is to hide it all away behind "don't do that, you need a tradie". People are going to DIY whether it's significantly regulated or not, the issue I have is when those people that are going to DIY don't have the knowledge on how to do it safely so they guess and end up hurting themselves or others.

            • iCandy on 08/09/2023 - 15:26

              @viTRifY13: Thank you. It was a horrible time for all of us with police coming to the door. My eldest son is now an electrician, ironically.

      • M00Cow on 11/09/2023 - 06:38

        How'd he get electrocuted?

    • M00Cow on 11/09/2023 - 06:31

      Yep, protection racket.

      PowerPoints/GPOs, power plugs , replacing lights, fans, network cabling are are simple stuff .

      Running fresh cabling, fusebox, solar, pool pumps, etc is much more a professional job.

      There's lots of scary mongering. But the rest of the world seems to get by just fine.

  • 82norm on 07/09/2023 - 08:19
    +1

    It’s only 3 wires.

  • 0 0 0 on 07/09/2023 - 08:37
    +1

    Presume basic wiring is unlikely to cause a fire. Using cheapo uncertified AliExpress switches, transformers, Heymix chargers more likely to cause a problem than wiring itself. Only thought is that if you did dodgy wiring near gas and it arced and caused gas to ignite.

    • terrys on 07/09/2023 - 08:54

      The circuit protected by a rusty 3" nail jammed in the holder (probably not rusty when it was put in) in the neighbour's side of a half-house I once shared did seem to have absorbed all the heat, therefore protecting the rest of the loom when I found it.

      It was nice that the device that had shorted was on a different circuit…

  • Odin on 07/09/2023 - 08:44
    +1

    They can't.

    The times when it's uncovered is when someone has done something grossly incompetent.

    • LFO on 07/09/2023 - 10:48

      "The times when it's uncovered is when someone has done something grossly incompetent"

      Being a licensed electrician or NOT.

      • Odin on 07/09/2023 - 10:57
        +1

        Yup. If you're good, you're going to do better work than an electrician anyway.

        An electrician is there to make money and as a job. You're working on the place you live in.

        • LFO on 07/09/2023 - 10:58

          SPOT ON!!!!!!!

  • Protractor on 07/09/2023 - 09:09

    "Someone I know ( a Youtube tradie) is not a sparky and is going to do a cashy for me. Am I covered when the house burns down"

  • TheOtherLeft on 07/09/2023 - 15:30
    +2

    "It was done before I moved in…"

  • kiitos on 08/09/2023 - 16:34

    Is saying it was already there when you bought the house sufficient for it to be covered by insurance?

    Would the insurer then ask for proof of when it was done? Should you expect to be able to get certificates and invoices from the vendor when buying? Should you not buy a place if they can't verify that all works were done by a licensed tradie?

  • outlander on 09/09/2023 - 12:11
    +1

    Depends on the scope of the damage. Most fires seem to get under control fairly well by the fire brigade, which means a lot of evidence left. It's probably going to depend on the cost of replacement whether they challenge it or not. If they don't decide to pay, I think you'd need to take them to civil court, and remember with civil court its a lower standard of evidence. You just need to prove its more likely than not that unlicensed works were done.

    Really though, with all the overload switches and RCDs in place now, not to mention the devices themselves that shutdown if they malfunction, you have to do something pretty dodgy to set a fire with electrics. For a while there halogen downlights where a concern, but even they've been negated by LEDs.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join