Treenails Vs Pocket Holes in Cabinetry

Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 09:53

Hi OZHandy,

I’m replacing a few kitchen base cabinets and researching into what to do with the joints. The Internet wants me to use Kreg pocket holes, which looks pretty neat. However, I think treenails could be better because it then eliminates metal altogether. The old cabinets I had to take apart had deeply buried nails, I had to saw the nails and cut some of the panels to pull it apart.

I can see Bunnings have the pocket hole jigs, but no treenails. Is it not a popular choice to use treenails? What’s the down side? I’ve encountered them in a mass produced bookcase before and quite liked them.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • fantombloo on 28/08/2023 - 10:00

    TIL trennels are actually properly called treenails. Makes sense.

    I'm sure I've bought them from Bunnings often times in the past. Looked on the website now - one item I can find - "woodworking plugs" - quite a peculiar lack indeed.

    • Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 10:20

      That’s an interesting find. Ppl actually cover pocket holes with plugs? I thought they were nice as is.

      • fantombloo on 28/08/2023 - 10:29

        Yeah, sorry, looked that up quickly on the phone - not what I thought they were.
        You're right, seemingly none at Bunnings. Peculiarity increases.

        • Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 10:31

          Just found it on eBay, they are called Dowel pins for some reason. Bunnings have it “Taskmaster 8 x 32mm Timber Dowel Connectors - 100 Pack”☺️

          • fantombloo on 28/08/2023 - 10:36

            @Alley Cat: Yeah I searched "dowel plugs" on Bunnings for that first hit.

          • trongy on 28/08/2023 - 21:54

            @Alley Cat: With kitchen cabinetry, it's best to design to have the pocket holes to be on the outsides where they won't be seen - the back sides that touch the wall, the tops that are covered by benchtops, the bottom of base cabinets and the top of wall cabinets that are out of sight as well as any side that's covered by trim or butt against another cabinet. That minimises the number of holes that need to be plugged.

            A cabinet maker on youtube discusses basic cabinet construction - Cabinetry Basics P3. I find his descriptions clear and he doesn't waffle.

  • mskeggs on 28/08/2023 - 11:30
    +3

    I’ve never heard of a treenail, I’m guessing it is a North American term for a dowel?
    Go for it, there isn’t any reason not to use them if you are happy to spend a lot more time drilling/aligning the holes for the plugs and waiting for glue to dry.
    A screw is fast.

    • Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 14:32

      I didn’t know what they were called, wooden nail returned treenail so I thought that’s the name haha Don’t mind the work tbh, something about metaless makes it satisfying.

  • JimmyF on 28/08/2023 - 11:43

    However, I think treenails could be better because it then eliminates metal altogether

    Ok then do it!

    The old cabinets I had to take apart had deeply buried nails, I had to saw the nails and cut some of the panels to pull it apart.

    Going to be the same if you used treenails would it? They are glued in/don't come apart easily.

    Did you reuse the old cabinets or just dispose of them?

    • Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 14:35

      If they are the same/similar material, can just saw it apart and probably sand even then drill again.

      The old cabinets are very fat, so need to get rid of some. But also had to replace a lot of the panels because of the nails.

  • Gnilgorf on 28/08/2023 - 12:58
    +1

    Well. Never heard them being referred to as Treenail's before, but hey! Learn something new everyday!
    I can only assume they serve the same function as dowels, so apologies if I repeat Dowel further below. It's just what I'm used to.

    I guess it all depends on what you're after. Just some anecdotal advice from a home DIY joinery maker who also happened to build some joinery, but in my case a vanity and some laundry cabinets.

    Dowels are great in theory. They provide a concealed joint, and only utilize wood & glue and otherwise work well in kitchen joinery as there should be no risk of them getting pulled out over time. The wood only is definitely a plus, a you can sand back, stain & varnish to conceal the joint. But, installing them to ensure everything is flush can be an absolute pain if you don't have the proper equipment. i.e. a drill press, or jigs set up to ensure the correct position each and every time. Accidentally drill a hole a mm off, or not perfectly vertical and one might find panels are suddenly not square, or one panel sits…just…off…

    Kreg Pocket holes are handy. Once you clamp all your pieces in place, and set up the jig, and drill the holes, there's very little chance things get built off. And being screw fixings it does give you the opportunity to take piece apart later if required. But the Kreg system also leaves giant hole in the side of panel. If for some reason you want to install the fixings on a visible surface of the cabinet, then just be wary that kitchen crud might get trapped in these holes.

    I did come across a video recently where someone used a Kreg jig to install Dowels. So you kinda get the best of both worlds i.e. the accuracy of the Kreg Jig, but the complete filled in look of a timber joint. Will share if I can find it.

    • Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 14:43

      The internet tells me to use a drill block, that doesn’t really exist in Bunnings. eBay has them, and one of those actually has 30°, 45° and 90° holes. I thought that would make the task a lot easier.

      I haven’t thought about lining up yet tbh, I’m sure there’s gonna be some cool ppl with tips on how to do that. Previously when I had to align things, I just put a water-based marker in-between and push things together, maybe there are better ways.

      • Gnilgorf on 28/08/2023 - 17:52

        Aye a drill block definitely helps! Along with a clamp or two.

        Best of luck and have fun! Let us know how it goes.

        • Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 20:05

          Thank you 🥰 Yes, I’m learning so much the past week, also got my PowerPass today 💪

      • trongy on 28/08/2023 - 19:10

        Dowelling jig is a commonly used term in Australia - it describes a drill block with a built in clamp.

        The "dowelling jig" links showing up under google for Bunnings are not coming up for me so they either don't stock them any more or just not at my local.
        You can find other retailers that have them.

  • Alley Cat on 28/08/2023 - 14:45

    Ok so my local Bunnings has the 150 pack 6mm dowels on clearance for $5. Guess they are only stocking 8mm ones going forward. I think the stars have lined up for me to play with dowels/treenails 😂

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