Neighbour Has Extremely Large Weekly Gatherings (200+ people) VIC

mfazackerley on 29/07/2023 - 20:03

Just after some advice about if this is legal. I cant imagine it is.

My neighbour has some form of religious gathering every week which can often attract more than 200 people.

I'm sure that gatherings that are this large and this regular surely would need at least a permit (which they wouldn't have) but I've tried searching to find an actual law or regulation about it and cant for the life of me. The house they attend is a small 3 bedroom house on a 900m² block so the event is mostly outside.

Anyone able to point me in the right direction? We are in Hobson Bay council in Victoria.

Some more background:

The 'events' are usually between Wednesday to Sunday and are from 7pm to 10pm and have been going on for about 3 months now.
The people themselves aren't all that annoying to be honest. Besides some sometimes very loud praying they aren't actually any noisier than you'd expect 200ish people to be.

The main issue is the cars.

Our street is a normal outer suburban melbourne street with mostly 3 bedroom houses on it. Each night there would be 1 or 2 cars parked on the street.
Tonight is the biggest one yet (hence the post) and I have just counted 98 cars on the street that I don't recognise and its between 2 and 4 people that usually get out of each car (mostly families).

And they park like absolute d***heads. They park over and in peoples driveways and often on other neighbours front lawns (actual lawns, not just the nature strip).

Im not even too sure how to comlpain to council to be honest. How do you photo 100 cars on a street at night time and prove which address they are going to?

Home & Garden

Comments

    • kiriakoz on 01/08/2023 - 15:58
      +2

      Jeez you're good. You mean turn the tables on them? Suddenly instead of having to worry about 200 people to your street, they need to worry about 1,000+ people in their catered for 200 people event? Suddenly instead of your street having no parking, the entire suburb has none and it becomes a much more publicised event? That is big brain thinking.

  • jerjergege on 01/08/2023 - 07:24

    I know many temples that are houses in residential areas, but the amount of people that atttend are less than 30 a week.
    There is a yearly event that all small temples will go to the largest one in the area and that deffinitly has over 200 people attend for a weekend.
    They were advised to park at the local shopping centre and walk over.

    Check your council on their policy for places of worship.

    In the example council below, no restrictions on people, just access and people must park using the proper rules, if no rules of parking are broken, then all is okay.

     Places of assembly/worship in residential areas:
    - must only establish on roads that are designed to carry high levels of
    through (or non-local) traffic; and,
    - should preferably be located adjacent to existing or planned
    commercial or community-based uses such as shops, schools,
    community

    https://www.casey.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2018-10/Pla…

    EDIT:
    Another council example:
    Knox council it would be an issue because it would reduce parking availability of residents in the area.

    The non-residential use:
    o Will not unreasonably impact on traffic flow of adjacent streets.
    o Will not be hazardous to local pedestrian traffic.
    o Will not unreasonably reduce car parking available for local
    residents in the area through generating additional on–street
    parking demand.

    Also some council areas, events > 200 people, they require a permit, however good luck proving they have over 200 people.

    What if they have 199 people, don't need a permit.

  • BobCobb on 01/08/2023 - 09:40

    Postcode?

    • pyramid on 04/08/2023 - 13:30

      Looks like Altona meadows .

  • MtLs199 on 01/08/2023 - 10:17
    -1

    How about you just talk to them?

    • Cluster on 01/08/2023 - 11:35

      That was my suggestion too, but apparently people are so afraid to talk to someone they fear retribution from the organizers, going as far as saying bikies will be called in.

      • morse on 02/08/2023 - 08:34
        +4

        It’s not about bikies being called in, it’s about some people actually being members of such group, we’ve had one clubhouse on our street (gone now) and another on a connected st that had links to another criminal organisation, their kids were a nightmare and they only moved out when dad went to prison - these are not the kind of people you have a kind and quiet word with. Two other people on our streets are cops, one of which constantly goes outside of planning rules and seems to have an in with council as nothing is ever done.

        I definitely talk to my neighbours who I know are reasonable if there’s an issue, but not taking the risk with an unknown entity and getting punched in the face, car scratched or worse.

    • smartazz104 on 02/08/2023 - 08:22
      +5

      People need to be told that 50+ people parking their cars and taking up entire streets might be an inconvenience for others?

  • pharkurnell on 01/08/2023 - 11:01

    Let all their tyres down each night.

    call teh cops and say theres a protest on and people blocking the streets…

  • angywoo on 01/08/2023 - 11:02

    Some ideas to consider.

    Do what the Royal Show neighbours do. Get everyone in the street to charge a ridiculous amount for parking.

    Put your sprinklers on.

    Line up your bins on the road with tape between.

    Park your own cars on the street.

    Get council security to patrol or hire street security to deter

  • pformag on 01/08/2023 - 12:01
    +2

    Play this on speakers loud. Rinse. Repeat
    https://youtu.be/04F4xlWSFh0?t=59

    • Nugs on 01/08/2023 - 13:18

      from wiki
      "Bodies" was used consistently by interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay detention camps in 2003, and was consistently played over a 10-day period in 2006 during interrogations of Mohamedou Ould Slahi while he was "exposed to variable lighting patterns" at the same time
      .

      • pformag on 01/08/2023 - 13:33

        must work then

  • jackspratt on 01/08/2023 - 16:02

    What a strange place OzB Forums is at times.

    Take this thread as a representative example - numerous suggestions being made by posters to do clearly illegal things, to prevent someone from doing, on what appears on the face of it, to be a legal activity.

    • cheapaschips on 01/08/2023 - 16:10

      Straya !!!

    • quog on 01/08/2023 - 18:35
      +1

      huh, the neighbour is doing something illegal.

      you racist!!!!

      • jackspratt on 01/08/2023 - 20:57
        +2

        huh, the neighbour is doing something illegal.

        And what exactly is that?

        Please quote the relevant statute.

        • quog on 02/08/2023 - 10:27

          read the OP, then learn the law.

          do some research of your own

          • jackspratt on 02/08/2023 - 11:11
            +1

            @quog: So you can't ….. OK.

            Sort of Dennis Denuto in reverse.

            • quog on 03/08/2023 - 23:21

              @jackspratt: I'm not your search engine dude.

              • jackspratt on 04/08/2023 - 13:27

                @quog: But you told me to

                learn the law.

                so naturally I assumed you already had.

                It seems you haven't, and still don't.

                • quog on 04/08/2023 - 17:04

                  @jackspratt: if i tell you, you dont learn.

                  assuming you are an adult, I'm scared

    • Sonnyjimbo on 01/08/2023 - 18:42
      +1

      Not sure what you're on about here, for me Australia's always been more about if it's "fair" than if it's legal.
      Take politicians for example - hate it when someone complains "that's not fair" because they know it's going to give them headaches in the press.

  • Davo1111 on 01/08/2023 - 16:33

    Why don't you pick up the phone or just email the council.

    • Protractor on 02/08/2023 - 11:02

      Wait what?
      and miss out on the attention here?

  • YoursTruly on 01/08/2023 - 18:27
    +1

    If you can’t beat them…..join them?

    Kidding aside -

    If this is a neighbour you share a property boundary with, and the neighbour seems like a friendly type, just say hello the next time you bump into each other at the front lawn and emphatically wonder if all is ok and that you’ve noticed large gatherings?

    Maybe they are mourning or celebrating someone, etc? (I know, three months…)

    • samfisher5986 on 02/08/2023 - 11:06
      +2

      The neighbor isn't going to stop a 200 person gathering because of him, this just means he will know that if anything bad happens, it was OP.

      • YoursTruly on 03/08/2023 - 02:21

        …it could go that way too, I guess…

        It could also go the way of understanding what’s going on - and maybe see if can join the orgy party meet halfway of peace making?

  • quog on 01/08/2023 - 18:36
    -2

    so OP, what have you done?

    nothing? thats my guess. get your blood pressure checked

  • figarow on 02/08/2023 - 08:41

    200 people and suburb reveal no way they dont have a heads up to this post.

  • Protractor on 02/08/2023 - 10:58

    Bad neighbour has FOMO ?

    Seriously if the OP is the only person upset about this,and/or he has NO local council, he is clearly living within a commune or cult
    The solution is frikkin obvious

  • foolsgold on 02/08/2023 - 11:25

    You should document the gatherings and report to council.

    If it's a typical home, from what you describe it would typically need both a planning permit for a place of a assembly and also comply with building regulations of a place of assembly. You just need to substantiate that they are assembling regularly, councils usually take this stuff pretty seriously and usually act pretty quickly from my experience.

    These are two different issues and two different council departments.
    First step would be to complain the planning dept, they will investigate and send in a compliance officer to issue them with a notice.

    The notice will them ask to them to stop (similar to a cease and desist) and apply for planning permission to be able to do this.

    Lot's of messaging and worries that it could be allowed or why it shouldnt etc. Not sure where you live in Victoria, but for it to be a place of assembly it would need to provide details on, among others
    - traffic, amount of people, operating times, and sufficient people to host it and many other considerations, including streetscape etc.

    I doubt they will be able to get a planning permit, BUT LETS JUST SAY THEY DID, they would also need to upgrade their home to meet the building standards of a place of public assembly including, fire/access/egress requirements. This in it's self is usually cost prohibitive unless the structure was intended to serve that purpose.

    • jerjergege on 02/08/2023 - 12:24

      Depends on council, and most of the times, not if its less than 200 people.
      And for example casey council only has 2 requirements for "Places of assembly/worship in residential areas:"

      • must only establish on roads that are designed to carry high levels of
        through (or non-local) traffic; and,
      • should preferably be located adjacent to existing or planned
        commercial or community-based uses such as shops, schools,
        community

      Unsure about other requirements, this was on just their specific requirements on "Places of Assembly/Worship Policy"

      However in the same document, it never defines high level of through traffic, even on their Road Management Plan, it doesn't mention high level of traffic, but depending on the street it may or may not comply.

      • foolsgold on 05/08/2023 - 13:49

        I'd say it would have to be some sort of main road, ie by road category, amount of lanes, major transport, proximity to town centres
        ie. a suburban street that runs off a main high street and opposite a park may not be categorised as a major road, but could be suitable.
        But we are talking presumably about a street in an estate in casey, theres is FA chance of it being approved, an unless its a congregation of less than 20 people I doubt it would be approved through planning. a standard home isn't designed to house more than 10 people.

  • DealLover1 on 02/08/2023 - 15:39
    +4

    sure its not a massive orgy?

    • lachhelix on 02/08/2023 - 22:16
      +1

      If OP can let me know the address, I'll go check in and let you know

      • YoursTruly on 03/08/2023 - 02:23
        +1

        once you know the address, hola at me. I’ll give us a ride there 😅😅

    • YoursTruly on 03/08/2023 - 02:13

      Is it an orgy if its 200 females vs 1 or few males? 😅

      • lachhelix on 04/08/2023 - 01:08
        +1

        I'm fine no matter what I find 😂

  • brentsbits on 02/08/2023 - 18:15

    If it's on their property then that's their business in terms of the gathering. The cars though? Just call the council, let parking enforcement know. They'll be happy to send someone 9ut. Problem solved

    • Davo1111 on 02/08/2023 - 19:22
      +2

      That's not strictly true. Some councils require security for parties >50 people

      • Protractor on 02/08/2023 - 19:27

        Some states local councils require registration of large gatherings too, I think. I wouldn't mind betting (also) that regular formal gatherings of any kind need some sort of approval.If it's a religious gathering, let them book a hall. God will foot the bill.

        • brentsbits on 02/08/2023 - 20:29

          Why do they need a hall? They are doing it on their own property and other than the parking aren't causing any issues.

          • Protractor on 02/08/2023 - 21:07

            @brentsbits: "If" this story comes without missing pieces in the OPs version, you must be dreaming to think 200 ppl regularly meeting and congesting domestic suburbia streets, to wave arms at sky faeries, should be tolerated , when they can make orderly alternative arrangements.
            The parasitism of religion on tax payer dollars provides endless fiscal opportunity for them to pay their own way.
            You must be pretty close to the root of problem to be so dismissive of its avoidable and selfish impacts.

            Of course none of this negates the fact that the OP could and should have done the thing even a kid could have managed. Pick up the phone and dial the councils phone number

          • morse on 03/08/2023 - 00:26

            @brentsbits: Issues =
            Parking
            Road/pedestrian safety
            Noise
            Evacuation risk

            There’s a reason why council has different land use zone and different requirements for these zones. In zones which allow 200 people to gather there are requirements about the width of the road, wheelchair accessibility, drainage, parking, indoor/outdoor land use

          • quog on 03/08/2023 - 23:23

            @brentsbits: and they are white christians so its fine.

      • brentsbits on 02/08/2023 - 20:29

        Well, I haven't read through all the comments but is the OPs council one of them?

        • Davo1111 on 02/08/2023 - 20:38
          +2

          Op won't know because they've done absolutely nothing… except post on ozbargain

          • Nugs on 03/08/2023 - 06:57

            @Davo1111: hoping for a public uprising, demonstrations on the steps of parliament
            .

    • unhuman on 02/08/2023 - 22:47

      Lolz no they won’t. Last I checked, we lived in Australia and not North Korea

  • pegasusx on 02/08/2023 - 19:36
    +1

    Wow. This brings back memories of yellow hair, sunnies and nipple piercings. Corey Worthington

  • unhuman on 02/08/2023 - 22:46
    +1

    Say what you want but to make more than 10 people gather at your place without free food or drinks is achievement on itself.
    Also sucks to be on op position but really can’t do anything about it.

  • USER DC on 03/08/2023 - 00:09

    And they park like absolute d***heads

    similar case here dude, one of the neighbors owning a toyota corrola is like that he would always park on street kerb strip so that no other person can park their car ahead or behind his car.
    Yet whenever I park my car I always try to park is a way that somebody can park behind or infront of me (without going over onto someone's driveway).
    But that corolla owner is absolute d***heads.

  • Scales82 on 03/08/2023 - 09:06

    Introduce mr valve stem to mr sidecutter.

  • johnfuller on 03/08/2023 - 09:17

    easy fix, you just call council ranger after hours and tell them theres people parked all over the place..

  • cupcake on 11/08/2023 - 15:11
    -1

    All you have to do is call your local police station and state that there is suspicious activity going on at such a location and that cars are driving in and out…
    Hopefully the police will come and inspect the situation, gather all the suspects, question all in attendance, frisk search and give a warning about saying prayers too loud.

  • mshanann on 11/08/2023 - 18:30
    +2

    Growing up, I had neighbours that ran a small bible study group each week, with probably 20 or so people in attendance - all around that early-adulthood age.
    The hymn singing at the end of the event (around 11 PM or so) used to drive my old man nuts due to the proximity of his bedroom window. I still clearly recall him visiting their house multiple times donning just underpants and absolutely blowing up and my mum telling him to settle down and get back home. Funny memories.

  • BeamMeUp on 21/08/2023 - 13:42
    +2

    So @mfazackerley whats the latest?

    • mfazackerley on 25/08/2023 - 17:07

      As expected the council won't investigate until they have some kind of evidence

      • morse on 26/08/2023 - 15:03
        +2

        Wouldn’t sending photos of the parking situation and videos of all the people walking in and out be reasonable evidence to pass on to council?

      • lachhelix on 26/08/2023 - 15:10

        Could you set up a security camera pointing at the road in that general direction and use that?

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