Should Australia Create New Cities or SEZ (Special Economic Zones) to Reduce Housing & Infrastructure Pressure on Major Cities?

Ldealhunter52 on 23/07/2023 - 11:30
Last edited 30/07/2023 - 10:07 by 2 other users

It seems to me that there is no vision or will from successive Labor/Liberal govts to create new cities to reduce rental/housing pressure and congestion in big cities.

There are so many potential sites to create new SEZ (special economic zones) with existing ports infrastructure, if govt offers incentives, special tax benefits and preferential treatment for foreign investment. Similar initiatives have been successful overseas boosting GDP and economy of the country overall, Dubai, Shenzhen & Johor Baru being the most successful examples.

Also, make it a condition on new migrant visas to live & work in these new cities/SEZs for at least 5 years before granting permanent residency. It will definitely reduce rental/housing pressure on big cities. Australia already has a similar Visa (subclass 491) under which prospective migrant has to work/live in a regional area for 3 years before being eligible for permanent residency and move.

I will probably be the first one to move out of big cities to avail cheaper land, open spaces, better infrastructure, if there are jobs.

Below is a list of locations with existing sea ports in Australia some of which can be established as SEZs and developed further for global trade and connectivity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ports_in_Australia

Poll Options expired

  • 171
    Yes
  • 96
    No
Home & Garden

Comments

  • SBOB on 23/07/2023 - 11:39
    +22

    if govt offers tax brakes, incentives, special tax benefits and preferential treatment for foreign investment

    Could they also not assist housing affordability if they removed tax 'breaks', incentives, and foreign investment for residential housing?

    Considering plenty claim we're already selling off our country to foreign investment, why would we want to effectively "sell off" port adjacent locations in the illusion that the end result would be more affordable housing?

    Similar initiatives…. Dubai, Shenzen

    Unsure if I'd using those as examples of "boosting GDP" unless you're also after the same kind of labour and funding sources that allowed them to achieve such infrastructure.

    • dealhunter52 on 23/07/2023 - 11:46

      Could they also not assist housing affordability if they removed tax 'breaks', incentives, and foreign investment for residential housing?

      Do you think there is land/infrastructure available it big cities to accommodate more housing? Don't we already have enough congestion?

      • LVlahov on 24/07/2023 - 17:06

        "save the environment" <> "build new mega cities in the countryside"

        Pick one.

        • Freitag on 25/07/2023 - 07:50
          +1

          I pick decentralised.

      • nobro25 on 25/07/2023 - 07:06
        +7

        Problem is there's no real town planners that know what they're doing. Developers are so quick and efficient in swooping up a place and building massive stratas. Whilst the local council are keen to make the dough and blindy signing the papers without doing the their DD by doing reset on the impact of said infrastructure.

      • CalmLemons on 25/07/2023 - 08:55

        They have already stopped the 'urban sprawl' and decided to focus on developing housing in more metro areas, as they realised they cannot afford the additional infrastructure and the resources to support these satellie communities.

      • IM-Cheap on 25/07/2023 - 12:30
        +2

        Trains, buses and apartments. Infrastructure is expensive and Australia's population tiny so less sprawl is desirable and acheivable considering our cities are not densly populated compared to other cities around the world. You point out Australia is large but much of it is also uninhabitable and another big chunk used for agriculture.

        • dealhunter52 on 25/07/2023 - 12:40

          Question is can you afford buying a house in big cities? Even little townhouse are selling for > $1 million here in Sydney outer suburbs. Forget about having a backyard for kids.

          Also, there are plenty of places all around the coast and they inhabitable and only limiting factor is lack of jobs.

          • CalmLemons on 25/07/2023 - 21:45
            +1

            @dealhunter52: China started building cities in the middle of nowhere/regional.

            They're all still empty, even for a country that is considered full.

            • dealhunter52 on 25/07/2023 - 22:31
              +1

              @CalmLemons: Unlike Australia, China's population is actually decreasing and they don't have 400,000 new migrants coming in their country every year.

              China didn't built just 1 or 2 cities, they went overboard and built 100s. Their central govt was giving growth targets to provincial govts who went crazy with debt fueled infrastructure projects. Which has created a collossal debt burden for them. Below article gives a great insight into LGFV structure they created to boost their GDP artificially.

              https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-07-11/china-s-h…

              • payless69 on 26/07/2023 - 07:57

                @dealhunter52: Jinpin now wants all women between 15 and 49 to have kids or pay a no kid tax! All the 15 year olds better spread their legs for the future of their country!
                Albo brings in backpackers who can work full time in agecare, free ed, and more salary than existing very experienced carers!!

                Who copies who?

                • us3rnam3tak3n on 26/07/2023 - 09:29
                  +3

                  @payless69: @payless69 Everything I've heard about backpacker labour is that they're exploited and underpaid. If they're actually earning more than locals then why would anyone take them on? Something doesn't add up.

              • CowFrogHorse on 26/07/2023 - 21:41
                -1

                @dealhunter52: Have you actually stopped to think how they managed to build all that infrastructure ?

                They work like slaves for 12+ hours a day, without basically poor standards and almost no holidays. Half the country is broken from this poor treatment, thats why so many Chinese people leave the country to come to a better place like Australia or any where else.

                Did you even think this thru ?

                Do you want to have everybody working 60+ hours a week just so you cant pretend to have more trains to sit like an idiot every day for hours on your commute ?

                • dealhunter52 on 26/07/2023 - 22:00

                  @CowFrogHorse: You have nothing to contribute.

                  Stop trolling and just go away…shoo.

                  • CowFrogHorse on 26/07/2023 - 22:05

                    @dealhunter52: @Bargainian

                    if china is so great why dont you move there ?

                    Oh thats right because its a bloody shithole, pure and simple.

                    Most of china agrees with me, thats why far more chinese leave china and basically nobody migrants to china.

                    Thats a basic fact, and all you can reply is by name calling.

            • LukeS on 27/07/2023 - 15:26

              @CalmLemons: Even worse - alot of the rampant development in China was never finished. They're often unsealed concrete boxes hidden in a pile of unsealed concrete boxed, with no utilities, sometimes no lifts (even if they are above the 20th floor).

              But the bank pretends it's real, the owner pretends it's real, and the market pretends it's real.

        • CowFrogHorse on 26/07/2023 - 21:44

          BUilding more infrastructure SOLVES zero problems of traffic or commuting.

          Every big city on earth is poor in this regard. People in HK or Singapore are still spending hours a day commuting, just like Sydney.

          Who bets on a horse who never wins, because no city on earth has solves this problem, they are all just variation of shite from bad to really bad.

          The real question is why do you want to copy the same formula that always fails everywhere you look on the planet from Paris to London to Singapre to Tokyo ?

  • HarryBolt66 on 23/07/2023 - 11:45
    +37

    It would be much easier and more effective to simply lower demand by putting the brakes on record migration intakes.

    • dealhunter52 on 23/07/2023 - 11:49
      +24

      But didn't we still had housing demand when our border were effectively closed for 2 years? Don't we need more than 5 big cities?

      17 million of our total population of 26 million lives in those 5 big cities and we are the 6th largest country by land area. Isn't that bizarre?

      • Hardlyworkin on 23/07/2023 - 16:45
        +21

        This is true though it's much more popular in Australia to just blame migrants.

        • brandt on 24/07/2023 - 16:11
          -3

          Thats because if migrants posit an argument you just play the trump card.. "go back to where you came from" which wins all arguments.

        • CowFrogHorse on 24/07/2023 - 19:15

          If you think more people is such a great idea… why dont you invite an extra family to move into your home for a year….

          See how much your family appreciates double the people sharing the toilet or bathroom.

          • Hardlyworkin on 24/07/2023 - 19:44
            -2

            @CowFrogHorse: I lived in share houses with countless people for years. 5 people or so to a bathroom. It's annoying but being humans we adapt

            • dealhunter52 on 24/07/2023 - 22:11

              @Hardlyworkin: Well said.

            • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 19:51
              -1

              @Hardlyworkin: Do you value your time ?

              Do you want to double your transit time to work ?

              Because that what will happen - just like it has happened in Sydney and Melbourne over the last 10 years and basically every city on earth. Please dont tell me impossible bullshit like building more roads or tunnels or hyperloops or metros…. Because for starters those things cost mega billions, and that means everyone gets more debt…

              Again i ask WHY ?

              Why do you want to make your life more difficult and annoying and give your kids a prison where they cant go anywhere because it takes too damn long to catch a bus or train or there are cars everywhere they cant ride their bike ?

              WHY ?

              • Hardlyworkin on 26/07/2023 - 09:46
                +2

                @CowFrogHorse: You live in Australia FFS. Stop reading the Murdoch media and living in fear.
                Perhaps I'm biased as myself, my family and many of my friends are migrants. We are however a massive country with a tiny population. We do however have crap transport though a small population is a factor there.

                Why? Because I don't live in fear and like many other people are I am solution focused.

                • CowFrogHorse on 26/07/2023 - 21:37
                  +1

                  @Hardlyworkin: @Hardly Stop calling me names and actually address the items that i listed.

                  EVERY single large city on earth has the same problems i described. From London to Paris to Singapore, all citizens in those cities is wasting hours a day travelling in any form available there. Tahts a FACT.

                  Hardly: We are however a massive country with a tiny population. We do however have crap transport though a small population is a factor there.

                  cow: You are the one brainwashed, small or large country has nothing to do with the problem.

                  Nobody on earth has solved this problems, so why pretend it can be solved ?

                  If you have the balls, answer with REAL examples… Singapore ay have a better trasport system but the average person there still wastes 2 hours a day…google it yourself. THey spend even longer in Tokyo and they have supposedly one of the best train systems on earth ….

                  What does this teach us ?

                  This teaches us that its unsolvable problem, so stop lying or denying this basic truth.

                  • Hardlyworkin on 27/07/2023 - 07:15

                    @CowFrogHorse: Sorry but why do I need balls? Is it only people with balls who have strength to answer questions?

                    This says a lot about you, enjoy you life in your cave being a big man protector. Is your name Ken by any chance?

                    • CowFrogHorse on 27/07/2023 - 09:23

                      @Hardlyworkin: Typical mental giant, everything is an insult. We can all tell how far in school you got.

                      • Hardlyworkin on 27/07/2023 - 14:08

                        @CowFrogHorse: I suggest having a closer look at European or North American cities outside of the capitals if you want to see lower average commutes. If you live in the largest city or 2 in each country then you expect to have a longer commute. Or you live inner city in a smaller place. Of the 12 cities I've lived, London was the longest where it was about 40 minutes each way with Sapporo the best at 20 mins. Melbourne was he worst at 30 mins and Brisbane the best at 20 mins

                        Another alternate is to work in a role that allows WFH. I find that the pandemic has improved the commute due to more people staying home. I spend about 2 hours of my week commuting and live next to the beach near a capital city. It's somewhat due to my level of education that I am able to enjoy the lifestyle choices I have.

                        • cheng2008 on 27/07/2023 - 15:02
                          +1

                          @Hardlyworkin: Don't argue with him, he's a troll, I learnt the hard way before.

                          • CowFrogHorse on 27/07/2023 - 19:46

                            @cheng2008: cheng: You are the troll, because you dont have the mental capacity to address my statements.

                            How about you show some integrity and actually address my original statement. I gave plenty examples of how commuting in every city on earth is a failure. I even referenced examples which are supposedly the best such as Singapore and HongKong.

                            So why cant you challenge me back or cant you do any better than a pathetic name call ?

                        • CowFrogHorse on 27/07/2023 - 19:43

                          @Hardlyworkin: hardlyworkin: I suggest having a closer look at European or North American cities outside of the capitals if you want to see lower average commutes

                          cow: Try give a less vague answer. We are talking about Australia here, and the way immigration and Australia works is they mostly end up in one of the capital cities. Of course very small cities or towns will have lower than average commutes, but we arent talking about that here, but thats not how Australia works.

                          hardly: If you live in the largest city or 2 in each country then you expect to have a longer commute. Or you live inner city in a smaller place.

                          cow: Your answer only works in a perfect world and we dont have that.

                          hardly: Of the 12 cities I've lived, London was the longest where it was about 40 minutes each way with Sapporo the best at 20 mins. Melbourne was he worst at 30 mins and Brisbane the best at 20 mins

                          …

                          Another alternate is to work in a role that allows WFH. I find that the pandemic has improved the commute due to more people staying home. I spend about 2 hours of my week commuting and live next to the beach near a capital city. It's somewhat due to my level of education that I am able to enjoy the lifestyle choices I have.

                          cow: This isnt about you. I also WFH, and i refuse to come to the office as a matter of principle, and i applaud you have the initiative to do so, but your example unfortunatley is ignored by Australians as a whole. I pity the fools who do the commute thing.

                          Most Australians like everywhere else do commute for hours every day and its getting worse and they sheepishly believe the answer is to build more infrastructure etc.

                          You havent actually addressed this very point, that building more infrastructure anywhere on earth in any large city has always failed which is precisely what ive said all along.

      • mitt on 24/07/2023 - 14:47

        The borders were effectively closed for about a year tops, during that year a lot of students remained too, transitioning to residency from student visas. The massive pump of migration after things opened back up has overwhelmed the pause on house prices during covid.

        I was looking to buy during covid & prices did stagnate, even decline while everything was locked down. I kick myself to this day for not buying during peak covid.

        • dealhunter52 on 24/07/2023 - 15:00
          +6

          The borders were effectively closed for about a year tops

          Wrong, our borders were closed from March 2020 to Feb 2022. That's pretty close to 2 years imo.

          https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-fully-r…
          https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/07/after-two-years-of-closed-bo…
          https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-60284491

          The massive pump of migration after things opened back up has overwhelmed the pause on house prices during covid.

          Let see the facts on property prices. Property prices started rising from October 2020 as per CoreLogic report. Property prices rose 20.3% from September 2020 to September 2021 as per the NAB housing market update from October 2021.

          https://www.openagent.com.au/news/australian-property-market…
          https://business.nab.com.au/australian-housing-market-update…

          In total property prices rose 25% from March 2020 to February 2022 when our borders were closed.

          https://www.corelogic.com.au/news-research/news/2022/two-yea….

          Hard figures are better than sensational claims.

          • LVlahov on 24/07/2023 - 17:29

            @dealhunter52: Again, you miss out a large piece of the puzzle with your simplistic approach.

            INTEREST RATES decreased in the period borders were closed, and house prices rose. Meaning that the overall impost on disposable income, you know for living and funding the rest of the economy.. was neutral.

            Now, with mass migration we have rising house prices, rising interest rates and massively reducing disposable income after housing costs are accounted for, as demand is gigantically increased by the new migrants.

            House prices are a function of: demand, interest rates, and supply.

            Increased levels of migration pull the first two in the wrong direction (in terms of affordability), without affecting the third relative to the first.

            • dealhunter52 on 24/07/2023 - 18:17
              +4

              @LVlahov: Did you even read the post I replied to before jumping the gun?

              My reply was in context of Mitt's below claims which were debunked with hard facts.

              1. Border were only closed for 1 year tops
              2. Migration from opening the border caused the prices to rise.

              It's always good to read the full context otherwise you end up making a fool of yourself.

          • payless69 on 26/07/2023 - 08:00
            -3

            @dealhunter52: Comrade Biden insists on leaving his southern border open. Harris claims she had been there but now is more demented and retracted her statement.

    • wongcr on 24/07/2023 - 09:51
      +5

      The problem is demographics - an aging population, boomers have retired, soon Gen X will be retiring, so where will the workers come from? Eg aged care workers, health care, hospitality etc?

      Same situation around the developed countries in the world, including China, Singapore, Japan, Europe.

      • LVlahov on 24/07/2023 - 17:00
        +7

        Nature finds a balance if LEFT ALONE. Let the population stabilise under its own merits, rather than importing importing importing which delivers nothing but ponzi growth. i.e. the same problem is there still in the future, only maximised.

      • ssfps on 24/07/2023 - 19:09
        +10

        In other words "we want a nicer retirement, quick, sell out our kids to get cheaper workers and more exit liquidity".

      • CowFrogHorse on 24/07/2023 - 19:16
        -3

        This is bogus, immigrants always bring in their own elderly parents….

        • SuperLate on 25/07/2023 - 01:45
          +6

          You are wrong. Australia has quite tough rules when it comes to migrate parents. Even when both partners are professionals and earn well, the balance of family test kills it for the parents to join them. It's easier and simpler in US, for instance, to sponsor parents visa. After a decade of working you miss your parents especially as they get older, not to forget many haven't even been able to attend their parents funerals. Balance of family test is nuts. Many professional migrant families don't need Medicare to support their parent's health, just remove this stupid balance of family test and let people reunite with their elderly parents. Don't forget the struggle it takes to raise kids on your own without grandparents anywhere near. And when they want to visit them overseas then it's at least a 10grand expense.

          • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 19:59

            @SuperLate: SuperLate: Many professional migrant families

            cow: Not everyone is a professional, stop qualifying your answers with bullshit.

            SuperLate: Many professional migrant families don't need Medicare to support their parent's health,

            cow: They may not need it, but they are using it today and thats a fact.

            So why are centerlinks and public hospitals filled with translators and material in nonenglish ? WHy are there phone lines for these and other government services not in english ?

            SuperLate: Don't forget the struggle it takes to raise kids on your own without grandparents anywhere near.

            cow: SO you want the aussie tax payer to pay you parents a pension when they havent worked here a single day in their life ?

            SuperLate:
            And when they want to visit them overseas then it's at least a 10grand expense.

            cow:
            If you want to go on holidays then thats your problem, i fail to see why the aussie tax payer should invite your parents here and pay them a pension so you dont have to pay for overseas plane tickets

            • SuperLate on 26/07/2023 - 08:10
              +2

              @CowFrogHorse: You failed to realise what I was trying to convey. I never mentioned that they should get pension, ofcourse why should they get pension if they've not worked in a country.
              My point was that you are being judgemental in thinking that "immigrants always bring in their elderly parents". That's not true. Australia has one of the toughest rules when it comes to parent migrations. The only immigrants who suffer from this rule (balance of family test) are skilled workers who migrated due to their excellent skills and their siblings refuse to migrate (because they already have a better life in their own country). Refugees and asylum seekers can bring their parents with them depending upon their own individual circumstances.
              Why there are non-english communication methods in public places ? Skilled migrants don't need them. They are for non-skilled migrants and humanitarian visa holders.
              As I mentioned before, not all immigrants always bring in their parents with them. I wish they could though and ofcourse pay for their living expenses themselves.
              Lastly, it's not a holiday when immigrants go to visit their parents. It's a family visit ! They don't have a choice to select to go to different places in the world or different destinations within Australia every year like you. Who would wish to visit their in-laws and families to spend whole of their annual leaves, every year !
              We should either create enough skilled workforce within Australia or be considerate towards the family needs of the skilled workers who contribute a great deal to this country. I see your replies are coming back to "that's your problem". I don't engage in close-minded conversations. So there won't be any more replies. Moreover, neither your nor my individual perspective is going to force any changes to the policies. There needs to be a collective understanding and respect.

              • CowFrogHorse on 26/07/2023 - 21:56
                -2

                @SuperLate: SuperLate: You failed to realise what I was trying to convey. I never mentioned that they should get pension, ofcourse why should they get pension if they've not worked in a country.

                cow: stop talking bullshit. We all know all those immigrant parents are collecting free pension and free medicines and so on.

                Dont talk about SHOULD, talk about what REALLY happens.

                SuperLate: My point was that you are being judgemental in thinking that "immigrants always bring in their elderly parents". That's not true.

                cow: Does this happen ? Yes it does its that simple.

                ~
                SuperLate: Australia has one of the toughest rules when it comes to parent migrations.

                cow: Says who ?

                This is a bullshit comment. Africa has open borders in basically all its countries. No government cares if people walk from one country to another if they can physically do so. THose countries dont even have an immigration system in the end, theres nothing to compare against Australia.

                In the southern hemisphere Australia and NZ are basically the only functional first world countries….so what exactly are YOU comparing ? Your statement makes no sense.

                ~

                superLate: As I mentioned before, not all immigrants always bring in their parents with them.

                cow: You dont know how to do maths.

                The pension per person is MORE than t he average Australian pays in tax just for themselves by a significant margin.

                Half of all australians dont even pay enough tax to cover the benefits they receive from the government from schools, childcare, hospitals, roads and more. That also means more than half of all immigrants dont even pay enough tax to cover themselves…. and guess what if they cant cover their own cost to the community that also means they cant cover the cost of their parents.

                Truth is it woul d be less than 1 in 20 immigrans that pays enough tax to pay for themselves and their one or two of their parents.

                Thats a fact or better yet look at your own tax return at the breakdown of your tax contributions.

                ~

                Superlate: There needs to be a collective understanding and respect.

                cow: Exactly you need to respect the truth and stop lying.

                You have totally ignored the cost of pensioners and the averaage tax contributions of the average Australian immigrant or not. At least non immigrant pensioners contributed to the country, new immigrants half of which pay less tax than the benefits they receive are hardly being fair in bringing in their parents who have never contributed a single cent.

              • cheng2008 on 27/07/2023 - 15:09
                +1

                @SuperLate: Don't argue with him, the guy's a troll.

                • SuperLate on 28/07/2023 - 00:24

                  @cheng2008: Yeah, I've stopped feeding him, realised after reading his other comments. Seemed like a hater.

      • RefusdClassification on 25/07/2023 - 05:22
        +2

        We should be embracing a degrowth agenda. Japan has zero immigration, vs America which has open borders; in another thread people overwhelming said Japan is a much nicer place to holiday to than America. With intelligence and ingenuity, a shrinking and aging population can be managed (eg invest in automation and AI).

        Immigration makes us poorer, because the finite wealth is spread among an increasing number of people (per capita recession). The only industries that generate wealth in Australia are mining and agriculture, and they don't need more workers; they only employ a small percentage of the population.

        Import the third world; become the third world.

        • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 20:01

          You didnt mention if immigration makes life better for most australians today ?

          Guess where all your traffic is coming from ?

          DO you know why your universities are filled with foreign students instead of Australian kids even though Aussie parents paid for the uni and continue ti subsidize them today ?

          Yes Aussies subsidize unis, want an example guess who paid for the tram to Randwick for a cost of $3B ? It wasnt from foreign student fees…

        • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 20:02

          Oh yes America the land so rich they cant afford free medical care or paid maternity leave or paid holidays for workers.

          • dealhunter52 on 25/07/2023 - 23:49

            @CowFrogHorse: You won't be able to afford anything anywhere if you don't work, be it Australia or US. I have friends who moved to US from Australia. They claim much better purchasing power and some states like Texas don't even have income tax.

            • callum9999 on 27/07/2023 - 11:51

              @dealhunter52: What your friends find doesn't really matter. I found the exact opposite. You'll need actual, objective figures to get the proper fact (my purchasing "style" probably isn't typical, no idea whether your friends is).

              Texas doesn't take income taxes, the Federal government still does.

        • dealhunter52 on 25/07/2023 - 23:54
          +2

          Import the third world; become the third world.

          Just so you know biggest source of immigrants in Australia is UK every year. Surprising isn't it?

        • Randolph Duke on 26/07/2023 - 10:10
          +2

          in another thread people overwhelming said Japan is a much nicer place to holiday to than America

          Couldn't possibly be because Japan's culture is tangibly different from ours, unlike America, where it's the same, just different. Also, considering Japan's xenophobia longer term I don't think people would choose it over America.

          Also based on the tone of a lot of posts in this threads, seems xenophobic is still pretty popular here with some posters.

          • tomfool on 26/07/2023 - 15:33

            @Randolph Duke: Is it though, I mean some people just don't want the Big Australia. That does not mean they like people from other countries. I think most people are more concerned about the impacts, both socially and environmentally, of taking in record numbers when we are struggling with housing shortages and infrastructure coping with the existing population. Big Australia is a bussiness agenda to increase profits and put downward pressure on wages.

            Planned sustainable migration is the key.

        • Minimum chips on 26/07/2023 - 20:16
          +1

          Wow, from the very first sentence, this is so poorly reasoned. Japan is a nice place to vacation… so immigration is bad? Do even a tiny bit of reading about the problems in Japan's economy and future. You don't even have the background to see how embarassing what your saying is.

      • quick-dry on 25/07/2023 - 18:04

        sounds like a pyramid scheme - when those workers age, they'll also need to be looked after, so we'll need to have MORE people brought in to look after them, and those people will need an even larger workforce to care for them in their old age.

        • dealhunter52 on 26/07/2023 - 12:20

          Or Australians here can choose to have more kids to bring replacement birthrate to 2.1 but growing number of Australians think that as a burden and constraint to enjoy their life to the fullest. DINK (Dual Income No Kids) is a real trend these days.

          • tomfool on 26/07/2023 - 15:38

            @dealhunter52: Maybe they are concerned that the planet cannot sustain an ever growing population?

            • dealhunter52 on 26/07/2023 - 15:59

              @tomfool: Birthrate of 2.1 is not growing population. It's replacement birthrate. Although, birthrates are definitely way higher in Africa, Middle-east and Asia.

              Every mammal on this planet instictively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way can survive is to spread to another area.

              There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.

              Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague and we… are the cure.” - Agent Smith (Matrix - 1999)

      • sane on 26/07/2023 - 08:10
        +3

        Like it or not, Australia is dependent on migrants - for economic growth, for demographics, and for skills. If Australia closed the borders even more than they currently do, the whole place will grind to a halt.

        If they were to support house building (by just getting out of the way and requiring decent standards) then most of the issues could be alleviated, and the GDP increased. And chief issue there is the way population huddles around the few cities. They need a 'second' city for each state, with high speed transit to the main city baked in - and they can bake in renewable energy etc. at the same time.

        Oh, and the skilled migrants aren't there for the aged care nurses, they are there to provide the skills that actually allow australia to compete on the world stage - the country's education system does not produce the skilled, experienced people needed for modern jobs. If you want to get rid of population, you need to work to get rid of the old, and those who will never find a job again.

        • tomfool on 26/07/2023 - 15:43

          If you want to get rid of population, you need to work to get rid of the old, and those who will never find a job again.

          wtf sort of comment is that?

        • CowFrogHorse on 26/07/2023 - 22:01
          -4

          sane: Like it or not, Australia is dependent on migrants - for economic growth

          cow: says who ?

          sane: for demographics

          cow: is there a prize for building a city where everyone is wasting hours a day commuting or in traffic ?

          sane: and for skills

          cow: You are talking bogus and simply repeating bullshit from the known liars called economists or other business factions that have a best of interest to lie .

          ~

          sane: If they were to support house building (by just getting out of the way and requiring decent standards) then most of the issues could be alleviated, and the GDP increased.

          cow: Stop talking bullshit… and share a REAL example where this has happened on earth, because. i can list dozens where this idea has failed.

          So why bet on somethibg that ALWAYS fails ?

    • Freitag on 25/07/2023 - 07:49
      +2

      I work in the construction industry (civil, industrial, commercial & sectors), there are massive labour shortages, prices are through the roof as a result. Probably similar for other service sectors, we need people to work in aged care for example.

    • ColtNoir on 25/07/2023 - 08:24
      +2

      You could also put the brakes on by removing CGT concessions for property (excluding the PPOR one) and remove negative gearing.

    • rohichan on 26/07/2023 - 14:22
      +3

      Nearly Everyone in this country is a migrant at some stage isn't it 🤔

      • dealhunter52 on 26/07/2023 - 21:14

        True, unless of course you're Aboriginal.

  • holdenmg on 23/07/2023 - 12:03
    -1

    Have you even looked at the list of sea ports you advance?

    Will you tell the people of Sydney Harbour?

    Or Saint Kilda Marina?

    • dealhunter52 on 23/07/2023 - 12:17
      +5

      existing sea ports in Australia some of which can be established as SEZs and developed further for global trade and connectivity.

      I understand you want to nit-pick but I said some, not all. I didn't create that list.

      Ultimately, it's job of govt think-tanks to come up with potential sites. Whether it's Port Kembla, Port Macquarie, Mackay, Bowen, Townsville or even Newcastle.

  • DashCam AKA Rolts on 23/07/2023 - 12:17
    +2

    This article is particularly enlightening:
    https://thenewdaily-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/thenewdail…

  • Mechz on 23/07/2023 - 12:33

    If we just made Jimmy Grant live in regional cities that might help.

  • Benoffie on 23/07/2023 - 12:33
    +5

    Just looking at the SA list. The majority are either:

    • grain ports
    • heavy commercial ports
    • already surrounded by vast townships
    • used for diving and are located in protected zones
    • dead in the water

    Considering we cant get sufficient funding for terminal upgrades at Outer Harbor and the surrounding areas are death traps due to centuries of pollution, Im not sure there's much merit

  • holdenmg on 23/07/2023 - 12:58
    +1

    Nearly ten years ago Abbott proposed a 'special economic zone' for Tasmania to encourage investment.

    PM's come and go…

    • AustriaBargain on 23/07/2023 - 13:17
      +11

      We couldn't even roll out a desperately needed fibre upgrade to our literally rotting copper. Four years just isn't enough time to get things done.

    • Clear on 23/07/2023 - 13:51
      +8

      Wasn't a bad idea at the time when most of the state was hooked up to NBN FTTP 10 years ago. There's been an increase in data centres here and another undersea cable would increase the demand tenfold.

      Unfortunately all the taxpayer money goes to a stadium that no one wants.

      • mskeggs on 23/07/2023 - 14:01
        +1

        With plenty of green power, cooler temps to reduce heat load and a well educated workforce, Tassie looks like a no-brainer for DC hosting. But the connectivity to the mainland is poor, and nobody seems to be able to improve it - no doubt Telstra is very protective of their cable as the only alternative to Basslink so they don’t want to see any change.

        • Clear on 23/07/2023 - 14:14

          Having 2 of the 3 undersea cables going offline early last year pretty much severed the state from the outside world. When you couldn't even dial 000 it was pretty serious and a lot of people for a short time thought Russia had dropped the nukes as it was early during the invasion.

          Not too long ago I was with the premier, minister for infrastructure and minister for technology and we were talking about this exact outage and the need for more undersea cables. Unfortunately the federal government have no interest in funding extra cables and the state really can't afford it.

          A real shame because as you say we have the skilled workforce, our power is green (excluding what we buy from VIC) with the capability to add more and the cooler temps makes it ideal.

        • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 20:04
          +1

          So why should tax payers spend billions so Amazon can build a center in Tassie ?

          Amazon and Microsoft the types who would use this investment dont even pay tax here.

          Wow you really thought this thru…

      • CowFrogHorse on 24/07/2023 - 19:18
        -4

        In 2016 NBN Co. said it was on target for $49 billion, but by late 2018 the estimated final cost was $51 billion.

        Do you really think spending $50+B to bring in a few data centers that pay a few million in tax is a good move ?

        So spend $50B get $100M in tax….

        yeh thats a brilliant return.

        The reality is the NBN probably cost at least another $10B….

        • Clear on 24/07/2023 - 19:48
          +2

          I don't think the costs were $50+B in Tassie……

          • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 19:45
            -1

            @Clear: Lets pretend Tassie cost $5B, spending $5B to get if you are lucky $100M in tax is hardly a smart investment.

            • Clear on 25/07/2023 - 20:04

              @CowFrogHorse: It's a good thing NBN is profitable then. Afterall we were the test bed, got FTTP early when it was cheap, received the first gigabit NBN plans 6 years ago, already had a significant network of dark fibre reused and our number of data centres is increasing. None of which are government owned.

              There's been a surge in demand for skilled IT workers and a serious lack of them available.

              The new stadium on the other hand is going to be a massive massive cost blowout without the benefits. For starters the area they want to build it at is too small, the roads/infrastructure there is sub-par with no room to build anymore, the public transport doesn't exist, there's nothing in place to control the traffic congestion, there's not enough accommodation aaaand the list goes on.

              • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 20:09

                @Clear: Clear: There's been a surge in demand for skilled IT workers and a serious lack of them available.

                Cow: Guess what there were IT workers before NBN.

                Mainframes have existed for years before even the PC, goto your local bank or government…. basically all of them are mainframes with some screen scraping.

                You are talking bogus. Most IT stuff is basic you dont need gigabit internet to push a few K of files to github…

                • Clear on 26/07/2023 - 01:06

                  @CowFrogHorse:

                  Cow: Guess what there were IT workers before NBN

                  And thanks to NBN and emerging technologies there's never been more demand.

                  Mainframes have existed for years before even the PC, goto your local bank or government…. basically all of them are mainframes with some screen scraping.

                  No shit, same as above. Unless you're somehow trying to say that there's the same amount or less. It's pretty ignorant to think we can't benefit from more with faster internet.

                  You are talking bogus. Most IT stuff is basic you dont need gigabit internet to push a few K of files to github…

                  I didn't know the local bank and government were pushing a "few K" to "GitHub" from their "mainframe". Come on you're almost sounding like a troll now.

                  cow: dont change the subject. this isnt about stadiums

                  It was pretty obvious you didn't read holdenmg's comment and the rest of the thread. Now it's even more obvious given the stadium was mentioned before you even tried to say NBN was $50 billion in Tassie.

              • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 20:09
                -1

                @Clear: clear: The new stadium on the other hand is going to be a massive massive cost blowout without the benefit

                cow: dont change the subject. this isnt about stadiums.

        • idonotknowwhy on 25/07/2023 - 16:01

          Yeah, if it helps kick off tech / creative innovation in Australia, it's worth it.
          Rather than what we have now, game devs are moving to NZ so they can upload their games to the PS Store in a timely manner lol.

          • CowFrogHorse on 25/07/2023 - 19:46
            -1

            @idonotknowwhy: Spending Billions to get a dozen or even a hundred tax payers is not sustainable, paying a few tens of thousands each is how you bankrupt a country.

  • AustriaBargain on 23/07/2023 - 13:15
    +27

    Heck no. With current interest rates I'm paying 1.2 million dollars interest on EACH of my 1 million dollar investment properties, predicated on the fact that there is a housing crisis which will keep rents high and at least triple land value in 30 years time. If you just went and built five more Melbournes then I'd be left with massive interest on my loans and I'd need to sell just to do a bit better than break even. The government should be supporting my gamble and that means keeping supply LOW until I retire. Once I'm in my fully staffed castle in Vietnam, only then may the housing crisis be solved and we can go back to the old way of doing things.

  • dealhunter52 on 23/07/2023 - 13:27
    +5

    @AustriaBargain appreciate the sarcasm and it's the bitter truth unfortunately. There won't be any action with vested interests of the ones at the helm.

  • brendanm on 23/07/2023 - 13:36
    +9

    Australia should limit population increase.

    • mskeggs on 23/07/2023 - 13:58
      +12

      Gerry Harvey will hunt you down. Every new migrant needs a house full of products for him to sell.
      Why consider the quality of life when you can consider the quality of dollars in Gerry HArvey’s bank account?

      • brendanm on 23/07/2023 - 15:28
        +4

        Indeed, we need lower wages and more consoomers for the corporations. The plebs can fight over the scraps, and the $1k a week rents.

    • ripesashimi on 25/07/2023 - 10:02
      -2

      Time to cut down boomers

      • brendanm on 25/07/2023 - 11:11

        Time to cut down on people who don't understand what the word increase means.

  • AngoraFish on 23/07/2023 - 13:48
    +9

    The same or a similar idea gets trotted out every few years, sometimes with significant funding behind it.

    Not once from at least a dozen attempts has it worked. Think the Ord River Scheme, the Albury-Wodonga Development Corporation and Adelaide's Multifunction Polis for example (google them).

    Think even Barnaby Joyce's constant failed attempts to encourage people to move to regional cities.

    About the best we've seen is Canberra, and that basically involved putting nearly every single federal public servant and a crapton of money into that one place literally for decades.

    Ultimately there's vastly too much money involved, and people want to live in existing cities with culture and history and jobs, not fantasy future cities.

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