Weekend Home Networking 101

• 

  retiredfeline on 03/09/2012 - 10:21

  +2

  So you have a cabinet where all the Ethernet ports end up? A router is overkill for this position and more complicated than necessary. Why not just put a gigabit switch in that cabinet and run a patch cable to the modem/router which is situated in a position for good broadcast.

  • 

    Trance N Dance on 03/09/2012 - 10:56

    What's the difference between a router and a switch in this case? I'm currently doing something similar to this.

    Currently thinking of attaching a modem/router combo to the phone line and then sending a connection to another router where all my wires end up.

    Also do you know if I took out the middle pair of wires, would the network still work? I've come to the understanding that the middle pair of wires in a cat5/6 cable is only used for gigabit speeds. The reason I ask is I plan on crimping only 6 wires for network use and the middle pair to a different plug for telephone use. That way I can use the existing wiring for both phone and networking.

    • 

      retiredfeline on 03/09/2012 - 11:14

      A router works at the Internet Protocol level. It can do things like address mapping, firewalling and so forth. A switch works at the packet level, it just passes packets to the appropriate port. The router may complicate the setup because they are often configured for network address translation. This makes it messier for things like configuring port forwarding, e.g. for torrent, you have the modem/router to setup, and then you have a second router to setup. Unless you configure it for bridging, but that's another story.

      Another reason is that gigabit switches are cheaper than routers with gigabit ports, and can be had with more ports. Usually they only put 100Mb ports on routers on the reasoning that you only need ADSL speeds.

      • 

        Trance N Dance on 03/09/2012 - 11:26

        Any recommendations on a 8 port 10/100 switch (can't use gigabit as I'm limited to 3 of the 4 pairs in a cat6 cable, realistically only using 2 pairs though) unless there's a benefit that's available in a gigabit switch and not in a 10/100 switch.

        Also I doubt I'll be needing a managed switch, as I only need something that works without the need to monitor or control the data traffic.

      • 

        retiredfeline on 03/09/2012 - 11:34

        The last switch I bought was gigabit so I don't know the market for 100Mb switches now. It was a reasonable price, I think I paid about $70 for a TP-Link 8 port Gb switch. It's unmanaged, this is a home LAN after all. I don't regret going to Gb. File transfers between computers are so much faster.

        Edit: I think this is the one I bought. As you can see from the much lower price, I've had mine for a while now.

        http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=TP-Link+TL-…

      • 

        samfisher5986 on 03/09/2012 - 11:42

        In my experience a cheap 10/100 switch didn't work very well under heavy load where my $48 cisco gigabit switch works perfectly.

        I ended up switching to a completely gigabit network anyway and now can't live without gigabit throughout my house.

      • 

        ESEMCE on 03/09/2012 - 11:49

        Why are one of the pairs unavailable? Telephone service maybe?

        Any brand switch will be fine, (worth going for a gigabit switch anyway, the cost difference is marginal and the components wont get stressed as indicated by samfisher above) but if you want to do it once and not have to buy replacements every couple of years, HP ProCurve offers a lifetime warranty, you pay for it though.
        Make sure it is passively cooled and that your cabinet has decent airflow. (cooling fans will gum up eventually and then the unit will die.)

        Inside, you can use a wireless modem/router to connect to ADSL and VoIP and provide internet access to the rest of the network. Recommended modem/routers are here (look for the ones with VoIP):
        http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1268327

        These are brand new (first units shipped only last week) but will likely make the above link in the coming months when their reliability is confirmed.
        http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1677364

        These modem/Routers are all high end and will be able to connect to NBN and pass through the connection at full speed (some of the cheaper units will create a bottleneck so you wont see the full capability of your connection on a fast plan) if/when it arrives at your place.

      • 

        Trance N Dance on 03/09/2012 - 15:31

        Yeah, I'm planning on using one of the pairs for telephone.

        Currently using the modem/router TPG gave us, don't think I'll change it as it's only going to be used by my parents and there's no need for any performance other than just as long as it works. Would change that once I finish uni in 5 years and move back home lol.

        Was thinking at going for a ProCurve, the only problem is the common point where all the wires are going is located directly above the bathroom… My uncle ran all the wires up to the roof when we built our house and because the access hole is in the bathroom that's where it ended up…

    • 

      ESEMCE on 03/09/2012 - 12:20

      Note I am NOT a licenced cabler so all of the below may be incorrect and would definitely be illegal to perform this install without a licence (any messing with the telephone network in particular could end you in hot water)
      Just so you're aware, it's illegal for an unlicenced person to simply terminate a network cable in Australia.

      I think you'll need a patch panel (as well as a switch) if you're planning to run telephone through your cat6.
      Otherwise you'll have the switch interfering with the phone pairs.

      Having got that out the way, I believe that a licenced cabler would wire them to standard at the socket ends and then you could plug an RJ11 cable into any RJ45 socket without having to do anything fancy.
      This way, down the track when NBN comes (and twisted pair telephone cable is obsolete) you still have fully functioning gigabit capable network cables and sockets through the house and all a licenced cabler has to do is reconfigure your patch panel so the phone pairs become networking pairs.

      • 

        Trance N Dance on 03/09/2012 - 15:41

        Mmmm I'll have to take a look into that and ask my uncle who did all the wiring. But a patch panel seems complicated for something so simple… lol.

        Was thinking of splitting the telephone pair out of all the cables and by passing that pair from the switch. So only 3 pairs off each cable will be going through the switch.

• 

  Jammar on 03/09/2012 - 12:22

  if I would like to install a 8 port gigabit switch inside the cabinet, do I also need a router to get on internet?

  so the configuration inside of cabinet will be something as follow:

  FTTH line in —> router with pppoe setup —> 8 port gigabit switch —> 1 port to each rj45 socket.

  is this ok?

  or did you actually mean

  FTTH line in —> 8 port gigabit swtich —> 1 port to each rj45 socket —> inside house wall socket to router

  with the 2nd configuration I think the rj45 ports inside the house may not have internet connection except the only 1 that is connected to the router?

  • 

    retiredfeline on 03/09/2012 - 12:45

    The former.

    • 

      ESEMCE on 03/09/2012 - 13:18

      Just to be clear, the router can be anywhere on your network.. ie you don't need the router to be in the networking cabinet, it can be in your home.
      But the FTTN line in has to enter your network through the router.
      The FTTN connects through the WAN port of the router (Wide Area Network), wheras the LAN ports (Local Area Network) of the router (and switch) distribute internet and form your own LOCAL network.

      You're building a reasonably complex network especially with integrated telephone… You're unsure of some of the basics of networking. I'd seriously consider getting a cabler in to make sure the job is done right.

• 

  Jammar on 03/09/2012 - 14:08

  thanks everyone. will try what greenpossum mention in the 1st post, i think the main priority is to make sure every rj45 ports inside the house are "internet" connected.

  once i get over that hurdle I can then decide where to install wireless router inside the house and probably configuring it as a hotspot only starting ip from 192.168.1.50 etc.

  i hope it won't create much problem when connecting voip over the wireless router inside the house.

  • 

    ESEMCE on 03/09/2012 - 14:29

    Nup, that's what it's designed for.

• 

  _Bruce_ on 03/09/2012 - 14:18

  +1

  My recommendations:

  Do NOT try to load phone and ethernet on the same cable. The issues are many:

  • Techincally you can get away with 10/100 on 2 pairs, but it will be less noise resistant
  • Gigabit is pointlessly locked out (very useful for file transfers)
  • You will have no standard cabling that won't work with anything, and anyone who works on it after you will be after your head.

  Instead, Run a heap of RJ45 Cat6 (or 6A) ports/cables. You can then use any of them as a POTS line with an RJ11-RJ45 cable. This is what I do, works find and I can run the telephone to anywhere in the house with a port.

  Be very careful buying a router with VOIP support. Many suck. After fighting with poor quality and dropouts for too long I got a dedicated linksys unit which works perfectly.

  My house works like this:

  • RJ45 Cat6 Cables in several rooms (always at least 2 ports) running to a cupboard.
    
    • Phone line (adsl) comes into one of these rooms and is connected to a near by RJ45 plug to bring in into the cupboard.
    • cupboard has Modem, access point, switch and VOIP box.
    • VOIP box connects VOIP POTS to any connections that you want to use a pone on.
    • Gigabit switch is connected to all other ports.

  I think this is something like what you want.

  • 

    Trance N Dance on 03/09/2012 - 15:37

    The reason I'm going for splitting of the wires is because it's a two story duplex with the wires already in the walls, with each wall plate having two jacks that are joined in parallel to the one cat6 cable running to the common point in the roof of the house.
    Running another set of cables is not an option.
    I know Gb is ruled out, there is no use for Gb as it's used purely for the distribution of access to internet which is way below Gb speeds anyway.
    Less noise resistance is something we're willing to live with, as long as it works and it theoretically should, everythign is new including the phone line from the street to the house.
    Don't care about non standard cabling, there is excess cable at each wall jack to allow us to revert back to the original set up done by my uncle when we're done with the house, which won't be fore another 5-10 years or so.

    I know the down sides of this and willing to go with it because that's the only option we have and are happy with it.

    Not sure what the OP wants lol.

    • 

      _Bruce_ on 03/09/2012 - 15:45

      Sorry I did confuse you with the OP.

      Thre idea of having two plugs connecting to the same cable is…. odd, but if that is what you have to work with..

      • 

        ESEMCE on 03/09/2012 - 16:31

        So did I

• 

  Jammar on 03/09/2012 - 16:19

  I think adsl and ftth works a bit differently.

  basically what i am trying to achieve is this:

  when i connect my smart TV in the TV room using an ethernet cable into the rj45 wall plate, it is connected to gigabit switch inside the cupboard, the gigabit switch is then connect to router, and router connect to the patch panel of hills home hub.

  so why do i need a gigabit switch?

  on the patch panel I have 8 ports link to 8 rj45 wall plate inside the house, most router only has 4 ports, to resolve this i need a switch with 8 ports connectivity.

  so instead of going from:

  FTTH patch panel —> router with pppoe —> back to patch panel i.e. router port 1 to patch panel port 1, router port 2 to patch panel port 2

  I am doing:

  FTTH patch panel —> router with pppoe —> router port 1 to switch port 1 —> back to patch panel i.e. switch port 2 —> patch panel port 1, switch port 3 —> patch panel port 2

  i think i am confusing myself even more, just let me test it out tomorrow to see how it works.

  • 

    ESEMCE on 03/09/2012 - 16:36

    Yep, that'll work.
    So will my first post.

    Most of the rest of the above is in response to Trance&Dance who hijacked your question with a similar (but much more dodgy and complicated) situation.

    • 

      Trance N Dance on 03/09/2012 - 16:58

      Yeah I just realised I hijacked the thread… Sorry jeff9999.

• 

  Jammar on 10/09/2012 - 09:42

  ok, here is what i ended up doing.

  FTTH line in —> main router in cupboard —> router port to patch panel that lead to each room.

  switch off wireless on main router.

  TV room RJ45 wall outlet —> 2nd router set up as access point cascading main router

  2nd router has usb for network drive, printer

  voip base station phone ended up sitting inside the network cupboard with my main router, and i am using 2 extra wireless handsets inside the house.

  good thing is everything inside network cupboard are powered by backup, this include my main router and phone base station, so we should still have internet and phone when power is down.

  also, you are allowed to touch those cable / repatching it if you find them ugly from previous job. I had cable dangling everywhere inside the cupboard and the cabling to patch panel was a serious quick job. ended up clearing up everything and re-patching all points.

• 

  freemoneyhunter on 01/10/2012 - 17:48

  Hi, I would recommend a good quality layer 3 switch.

  Also buy a router and enable NAT and use a good quality routing protocol like OSPF. Alot of home routers just run a default static route, I would recommend with the layer 3 switch is to put all ports on a different subnet, this will allow a massive amount network expansion in the future. Also consider VLANS

  If you are short on money and want good quality router and VOIP, buy a cisco 26** router off the internet and put VOIP on it. They are pretty cheap along with ADSL modules, if yhou set it up right, you will have the msot robust internet and VOIP.