Renter Broke The Toilet, Property Manager Wants Me to Replace It

veidt on 18/07/2023 - 19:54
Last edited 19/07/2023 - 17:03 by 1 other user

*****Thank you for your input, I am going to replace the toilet.*****

Hello forum members,

I find myself in a perplexing situation regarding a rental property, and I would greatly appreciate your advice and insights.

Around a year and a half ago, I rented out my house through a real-estate agent. Prior to the rental, the toilet in the house was in good condition and had passed the inspection conducted by the agent. I have received two inspection reports, one during the first tenant's stay and another after they vacated, and both reports indicate that the toilet was in good condition.

However, the second tenant, who moved in three months ago, is now requesting a replacement for the toilet. They have sent me photos showing a broken toilet base and claim that it needs to be fixed. I have been arguing with the agent, asserting that it is not our responsibility as the damage was not present during the inspections.

In response, the agent insists that it is the owner's duty to cover the cost of repairs. I have gone as far as challenging the agent and threatening legal action, as I possess evidence to support my case.

Now, the agent is suggesting that the house is old and toilets can naturally crack and break, and that the authorities will typically side with the renters in such situations.

At this point, I am uncertain about the best course of action. Should I simply accept the cost and proceed with fixing the toilet, or should I continue to contest the matter?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • CyberMurning on 18/07/2023 - 19:56
    +18

    Bikies

    • Bikies on 19/07/2023 - 11:29
      +54

      My rates have increased 40% in line with inflation

      • kaleidoscope on 19/07/2023 - 18:09
        +1

        So 0 * 40%, its still 0?

        • MrFrugalSpend on 19/07/2023 - 21:11
          -2

          I'd love to see you try this negotiation with some of the bikies I've seen/met over the years and see how long before you increase your offer

      • Sammyboy on 20/07/2023 - 11:53

        Instead of 50/50 now its probably 70/30 lol

    • reactor-au on 20/07/2023 - 12:40
      +1

      To break the rest of the house?

  • AndyC1 on 18/07/2023 - 19:57
    +9

    How old is the toilet seat? Is it made from plastic or wood? Does the sun come in through any windows in the toilet and make it to the seat?

      • AustriaBargain on 18/07/2023 - 20:19
        +151

        The toilet could be 30 years old! Jesus (profanity) christ, you are not cut out of this mate..

        • Ozpit on 19/07/2023 - 09:12
          +3

          Wait. Those chain-pull toilets were made to last forever.

        • juki on 19/07/2023 - 21:38
          +5

          what 1990 was 30 years ago…man…

        • neonlight on 20/07/2023 - 17:46
          -1

          inflation is here, landlords wants to save money. Renter possible to have damaged it who knows

          But 30 years old is a long time for a single toilet so therefore landlord shouldn't argue

      • Cyphar on 18/07/2023 - 21:25
        +157

        lol. Replace it. If it was a few years old, you'd have my sympathy. But from one landlord to another, you are the kinda person that makes the rest of us look bad.

        • MrFrugalSpend on 19/07/2023 - 21:20
          +8

          This would have made a great AITA - I'm so sick of them's where the person actually is not the A$$hole - in this case we could have clearly all said yes you are!

      • burningrage on 18/07/2023 - 23:32
        +7

        I see what you mean but 30 years? I think you should replace it. It's not unreasonable.

        • Xistn on 19/07/2023 - 09:07

          "Wear and tear" them tacos on tuesday give toilets a floggin.

        • Cyphar on 19/07/2023 - 11:21
          +18

          To the downvoters: how many of you replaced your toilets when they reached 30 years old?

          It's not a case of "Toilets break and need replacing after 30 years"

          It's a case of "The toilet has been there for 30 years. It's not unexpected that something can or will happen"

        • Ramrunner on 19/07/2023 - 15:30
          +1

          <eyetwitch> break </eyetwitch>

        • ripesashimi on 19/07/2023 - 17:45
          +2

          I hope you acutally make that claim in front of the tribunal. Imagine being ordered to pay every time someone has to take a shit. That shit will definitely make headlines.

          In the meantime, sack the agents who told the truth that tribunal will 100% side with the tenant.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 19/07/2023 - 21:16
      +49

      Here's a photo complete with the crack - https://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/8/5/0/748850_144…

      REA: "Sir, sorry, sir, it's just that the tenants need something to sit on to defecate sir"
      OP: "What!? I gave them a 30 year old thunderbox, they must have broken it!, Those lowly Peasants should be grateful with what I have provided them and pay for what they've damaged!"
      REA: "Sorry Landlord sir, it's just that it is really old and broken, and after all, you do get to keep the new one in your estate as your property… and claim it as a tax deduction"
      OP: "Nonsense, how dare they break my property, make them pay or jail them in the dungeon!"
      REA: "Sorry sir but the law actually favours them and says you are responsible for repairing it"
      OP: "Outrageous, I will complain about this!"
      REA: Landlord sir, you probably should replace it, sir, THE PEASANTS ARE REVOLTING!!"
      OP: “You Can Say That Again, they sure are!!" ("… I went there for an inspection and I swear they were even using the backyard as a toilet!")

      • Aneurism on 21/07/2023 - 19:02
        +1

        Wondering when the OP will declare Prima Nocta

  • Wiadro on 18/07/2023 - 19:57
    +49

    evict them and have the house sit empty

    • Ciderfizz44 on 19/07/2023 - 18:54
      +1

      Not in this market, evict fix toilet, up rent.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 19/07/2023 - 21:15
        +1

        wouldn't be legal anymore - cost a lot more than the toilet if you did this!

  • Slinky0111 on 18/07/2023 - 19:58
    +123

    Fix the toilet. No sane person is going to take a sledge hammer to a toilet that is in use.

    • reactor-au on 19/07/2023 - 08:49
      +2

      This is my logic as well but my lease agreement also says tenant is responsible for cost of broken toilet bowl. I'm not even sure why it's so common that is even listed as a point on the standard lease agreement. In my 36 years on planet earth I've still never seen or heard of anyone I know having experienced a cracked or broken toilet bowl.

      • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2023 - 10:44
        +15

        Doubt he has any grounds to force a tenant to pay for a 30+yo toilet that costs ~$500 before tax deductions to fix anyway. Wear and tear. I'd get out of realestate and stick to interest from savings accounts if costs these low made my fragile eyes water.

        • SlickMick on 19/07/2023 - 10:59
          -2

          This has nothing to do with the amount or what's deductable or op's stinginess or investment strategy. The only relevant thing you mentioned, which is what we're debating here, is whether the toilet broke through normal wear and tear. If I was Op I'd be totally willing to wear the cost if there was no incident that caused the breakage. I was suss that a toilet base just brakes spontaneously, though I'm hearing that this can happen. If tenant's story aligns with that, then no prob.
          Somebody else mentioned it was written in tenancy agreement. Maybe they're more fragile than I was aware and need to be treated with kid gloves. News to me.

  • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:02

    How much does it cost to fix? $500?

    • veidt on 18/07/2023 - 20:03
      -1

      probably with installation included

      • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:04
        +16

        So $500 in total yeah? Either way a quick Google indicates $150 to $1000, sounds pretty cheap (i.e. at least it's not $5000 right?) and you can probably claim it on tax.

          • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:10
            +21

            @veidt: That comes with the territory of property investing, not everyone cares about the building they live in.

            You can probably manage it yourself so that you can actually interview the tenants if you want to strictly control the type of person who rents your place, but even then someone could present nicely and talk well and be a complete slob in their private life.

            • veidt on 18/07/2023 - 20:18
              +2

              @Ghost47: The house was my primary residence, and I never intended it to serve as an investment property. However, due to work, I had to relocate to a different state, making it impractical for me to manage the property.

              • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:20

                @veidt: Yeah fair enough. Hopefully the property manager is a good one.

          • Drakesy on 18/07/2023 - 20:19
            +11

            @veidt: OP Wants to be a landlord.

            Worried about tenants…

            There's no such thing as a free lunch ;)

            • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:23
              +7

              @Drakesy: Landlords who have good tenants that take care of their property are very lucky and need to count their blessings IMO.

          • Protractor on 18/07/2023 - 20:47
            -3

            @veidt: This sentence underlines an underlying motive.

          • pharkurnell on 19/07/2023 - 15:53
            +2

            @veidt: Welcome to being a landlord.

            If your that concerned, considering you've already had several years of nothing going wrong, your complaining about 500 sell up…

      • Some Human on 18/07/2023 - 20:06

        A mate of mine was quoted double that (vic)

        • veidt on 18/07/2023 - 20:06
          +3

          300 for a new toilet from Bunnings plus 270 for installation

          • nocure on 18/07/2023 - 20:22

            @veidt: *and tax deductible

            • kiriakoz on 19/07/2023 - 15:46
              +2

              @nocure: And you get the pleasure of giving someone a new unused shitter.

              • youknow on 19/07/2023 - 21:51
                +3

                @kiriakoz: Plumbers usually take the joy of breaking them in. Bastards!

                • kiriakoz on 19/07/2023 - 21:54
                  +3

                  @youknow: Just once in my life, I would love to be the first to shit in a toilet. Is that too lofty a life goal? If it comes to it, I might go in one of the display ones in Ikea. Even though they don't flush, it's the principle of the thing.

          • MrFrugalSpend on 19/07/2023 - 21:19

            @veidt: Now we are getting the OzB part of the deal - getting the OP the best deal on an installed toilet!

      • tomfool on 20/07/2023 - 08:46

        Depends on the toilet, cheap $230, mid range $500. I'd be budgeting around $900-$1000 installed. You want something half decent that covers the existing toilet footprint.

        I hate when they quote the cheapest install, it ends up cheeping your property and mismatching with what's already installed.

    • OhNoUShiz on 19/07/2023 - 19:37

      Labour probably 300. Toilet seat depends on what type you get to replace.

    • WT on 19/07/2023 - 09:57
      +1

      some of the old ones are more trouble to fix and its easier to replace

      House I grew up in is 30+ years old, out of the 3 toilets one recently had to be replaced. The ceramic was fine but the rest was rubbish but seemed to always have problems. The one downstairs which would get far more use is solid, but I recall is simply just better quality and a more expensive unit

      The house we live in has a couple of toilets that are probably 50+ years old

  • randomusername2017 on 18/07/2023 - 20:07
    +39

    Sh*t happens…

    • orangetrain on 19/07/2023 - 10:01
      +16

      Not until it's repl*ced..

  • ozbs25 on 18/07/2023 - 20:12
    +46

    Just fix it and move on. Things break all the time. You've never had to repair something in your own place? Be thankful it's not the shower cubicle or something else major in the bathroom.

    • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:16
      +8

      If I was OP I would go over and take a look at everything closely to make sure, could end up with unexpected and costly repairs in the future. I would expect that houses built back in the 90s should be of better quality than the junk built these days so it shouldn't be too bad.

      • Eeples on 21/07/2023 - 08:58

        OP lives inter-state but they have lived in that rental as their main residence.

        One would think they know the property pretty well.

    • omguleh on 18/07/2023 - 21:14
      +6

      Luckily it wasn’t the shower door, we had ours suddenly explode one evening and no one was even using it.

    • lunchbox99 on 18/07/2023 - 21:52
      +38

      This is what always confuses me. People replace or repair stuff on their own house all the time, but expect that they can rent a property for 20 years and nothing ever needs to be replaced, and if something breaks it must be malicious damage or neglect.

      • miwahni on 19/07/2023 - 22:12
        +9

        LOL I'm the opposite - will leave things go at my own home until I absolutely have to fix - but if agent rings me about a problem with the IP then I authorise immediate repairs. Tenants shouldn't have to live with my laziness.

        • Eeples on 21/07/2023 - 08:58
          +1

          Me too.

          I didn’t have hot water in my bathroom basin for 3 years.

          • Bdawg on 26/07/2023 - 16:50

            @Eeples: I just turned the hot water off because it leaks and who needs it in the basin anyway? By the time I've washed my hands the water still isn't hot.

  • AustriaBargain on 18/07/2023 - 20:16
    +69

    Pissing off your REA over a who knows how many years old toilet is not smart. I get the feeling you would have been better off buying stocks and bonds instead of an investment property. The house I'm in the toilet was falling apart. The owner installed a heavy duty one firmly anchored to the floor. No temper tantrums, essays on OZB, or bogus threats of legal action required. This house is literally falling apart, but whoever is living in it needs a stable throne.

    • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:18
      +9

      Speaking of stocks, I've had $2k worth of dividends drop into my accounts this month. Feels good, didn't have to do anything 😃

      • JIMB0 on 18/07/2023 - 20:41
        +6

        Same here and not one phone call about any issues.

        • Ghost47 on 18/07/2023 - 20:42
          +3

          The only thing to worry about is what stock/ETF to reinvest the funds into! Gotta grow that snowball.

      • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2023 - 12:50
        -1

        Which shares? :D

        Saying that, my block of land went up 35% in 12 months tho LOL.

        • Ghost47 on 19/07/2023 - 14:42

          Just some Vanguard ETFs and ETFs in my Raiz account. Also some from a US REIT I own which pays dividends each month.

        • try2bhelpful on 21/07/2023 - 08:21
          +2

          To realise this you will have to sell the block. The point with shares is you can offload some without having to sell your entire portfolio. I, also, assume your block is mortgage free and you don’t have any maintenance costs with it.

      • AustriaBargain on 18/07/2023 - 20:21
        +75

        I never intended to soil my underpants after curry night, but I still need to deal with the mess.

        • smartazz104 on 19/07/2023 - 13:35
          +4

          Some might say that by consuming curry, soiling yourself was your intention all along…

      • Clear on 19/07/2023 - 00:37
        +1

        Spending money on an investment property isn't always a bad thing. Certainly good for tax.

        • Bdawg on 26/07/2023 - 16:52

          Your reasoning is unreasonable. Incurring a cost isn't good, even if you can write it off, it's still a cost.

      • cheekymonkey on 19/07/2023 - 09:14
        +21

        then sell it and invest the money into something you are more then comfortable with. Remember, you are not letting a "mate" stay there, you are charging someone market rate for rent. They have expectations.
        Another way to look it.. you now have a brand new toilet for YOUR future use (when you move back in) which was bought as a tax write off.

    • kiriakoz on 19/07/2023 - 15:47
      +1

      He did write an essay on OzB, but we told him to be a good bloke about it.

    • PumpkinHater on 19/07/2023 - 16:40
      +1

      Just because a house is 30 years old does not necessarily mean it is falling part. I live in a 45 year old house and it is not falling part anywhere.

      • AustriaBargain on 19/07/2023 - 16:44
        +1

        The house I’m in is older than 30 years. Most of the fittings are probably closer to 40 years old though. It’s all destined for demolition and rebuild with expensive house, like the rest of the old houses in this very expensive suburb.

        • PumpkinHater on 19/07/2023 - 17:00
          +2

          That might very well be the case with your place but it's not a universal standard that houses over 30 years are absolute garbage.

          Also a bit surprising that 30 year old houses are set for demolition an expensive suburb. Where do you live?

          • AustriaBargain on 19/07/2023 - 17:04

            @PumpkinHater: Adelaide. Old houses get demolished here and fancy new ones, usually two storey, go up in their place. There’s six going up on my street alone. Neighbour said he was offered 800k just for land.

            • PumpkinHater on 19/07/2023 - 17:06
              +1

              @AustriaBargain: Hmmm expensive suburb indeed.

              • AustriaBargain on 19/07/2023 - 17:27
                +1

                @PumpkinHater: It’s weird because a few years ago it was all old houses and retirees. 800k for what used to be a sleepy Adelaide suburb is expensive, plus the buyers need to pay to demolish and remove the rubble. The only reason I am living here is because the house is falling apart and the owner doesn’t know when to sell. It’s full of his stuff so I’m effectively housesitting.

  • try2bhelpful on 18/07/2023 - 20:19
    +30

    I’m not sure why you are getting angry with the Agent. Keeping the house in liveable order is the responsibility of the owner. Perhaps the Agent could ask what happened when the toilet cracked. You would need to prove that the renter deliberately damaged the toilet to get them to pay. This is why landlords have insurance on homes.

    How much money do you think it will cost to repair the toilet compared to the cost of contesting this? The odds are the authorities will side with the renter. Right now you are getting everyone offside for a reasonably small amount of money.

    • knobbs on 19/07/2023 - 09:49

      Is that not the same as saying if they accidentally put a hole in the wall or damage the carpet with stains the landlord has to pay to fix it unless you can prove they deliberately did it? Surely the ll isn't responsible for everything broken by the tenant unless proven deliberate?

      • try2bhelpful on 19/07/2023 - 11:28
        +5

        Actually no it isn’t. Normal wear and tear is expected when people are renting a place. Do you think someone needs to replace an old stove, the plumbing in the house, a new roof? The toilet may have been affected by something a previous tenant did and it has only given way now. This is why landlords have insurance. It is a lot less expensive to do the replacement rather than try and pursue this through the relevant tribunals and, probably, lose anyway if you can’t show negligence.

        • knobbs on 19/07/2023 - 13:42
          +2

          You consider holes in the wall & stained carpets normal wear and tear then by that statement?

          I don't think a tenant needs to replace any of those if they are still working and in reasonable condition, but if they brake them that is a different story. LL do not have insurance for normal wear and tear, that is not cover-able.

          Yes it is very likely unless the tenant admits fault it is cheaper to get the replacement done rather than pursue them but that isn't the point we are arguing. It is who is responsible. Although who is at fault if anyone still isn't clear in this case.

          • try2bhelpful on 19/07/2023 - 14:13
            +6

            @knobbs: So we agree we don’t know who is at fault in this case. The landlord needs to get this repaired ASAP. The house isn’t fit to live in with a broken toilet.

            Regular wear and tear can add to staining on carpets and walls may get problems due to dodgy painting/plastering. Walls should be able to withstand something like blue tack on it without losing chunks. I once rented a place with galloping damp which meant the carpets in one bedroom were always moist. We just used it as a dumping room so we didn’t notice to start with. Some of the contents of boxes I was storing got damaged but I didn’t hit the landlord up for replacements because I figured I should’ve paid more attention. Believe me those carpets were stained from this damp.

            The entire issue comes down to what would be considered by the relevant authorities as acceptable wear and tear. Unless the owner can prove negligence or deliberate damage the tribunals are going to tell them to pony up and may well hit them for a rent reduction for refusing to cover necessary repairs in a timely manner.

            When I rented I ensured I left the places in good condition when I left them. We always got our bond back with no arguments and we often got compliments. Now days I would consider hiring a carpet cleaner but given the dodgy arse carpets some landlords put in you might damage them trying to clean them.

            • knobbs on 19/07/2023 - 16:14
              +2

              @try2bhelpful: Yeah I agree no matter who is at fault without some strong evidence (which OP has not mentioned) there is 0 chance unless the tenant admits own damage OP will have to pay to repair. 99% OP will have to pay-up for this one.

              Sounds like a shitty situation you were in. At the same time though if the LL didn't know about it how could they fix it? Would be a bit hard claiming damages (if you were to) without having evidence you notified them and they did nothing about it. If you did though, could be up for rent reductions/alternative housing kinda stuff.

              Yeah renting is very stressful and the handover at the end with claiming bond back phew…. Had one bad experience with the REA trying to scam us. Have had 0 issues since but gets me every time. The wife ain't too good at cleaning but I spend days cleaning up the place before handover, it goes back better than when we took over for sure.

              • try2bhelpful on 19/07/2023 - 22:54

                @knobbs: Frankly we were pretty lucky with our rental situations. It was a bit give and take and we weren’t treated too badly. We had external toilets and some really interesting paint jobs but they weren’t fussed we had cats. One place had a bathroom that was a bit werewolf at full moon. However, I was really happy when we could get a loan and buy our own place. The trouble with renting is you are always waiting for the next shoe to drop.

    • trapper on 20/07/2023 - 11:52

      You would need to prove that the renter deliberately damaged the toilet to get them to pay.

      This is not correct. Any damage above normal wear and tear is responsibility of the tenant.

      But I do agree pointless to pursue if the tenant isn't forthcoming, I would put the rent up instead :D

  • Drakesy on 18/07/2023 - 20:22
    +50

    legal action > cost than buying a toilet…

    You're a landlord
    Your house is 30+ years old (this includes the toilet)
    Take some ownership of your property.

    Yes it's crap but property maintenance is part of your requirement, you can't throw everything at tenants.

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