Looking for a Free and Simple Instant-Messaging App, That Works on Android and iPhone, and Doesn't Have Intrusive Permissions

Russ on 24/06/2023 - 14:49
Last edited 24/06/2023 - 22:29

Edit: I now have several options that do everything I asked for, thanks everyone!

The options are:
Slack
Session - Private Messenger
SimpleX Chat
Linphone

I'm trying to find a free and SIMPLE instant messaging app, just for text communication between family members and relatives, that works via WiFi or mobile data, and works on Android and Apple devices.

I don't mind if the app has voice and video messaging as an option, as long as they are easy to ignore when I just want to send a text IM.

I DON'T want an app with intrusive permissions and non-free parts like:

  • Close other apps (Viber)
  • Change network connectivity (Viber, Skype)
  • Connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi (Skype)
  • Location (WhatsApp Messenger, Signal, Telegram, Zoom)
  • Directly call phone numbers (Skype, Signal, Telegram, Zoom)
  • In-app purchases (Viber, Telegram, Zoom)
  • Send SMS messages (WhatsApp Messenger, Signal)

What the App MUST have:

  • Free to install, free to use
  • Works on Android phones and tablets
  • Works on iPhone and iPad
  • Can use WiFi (so it's usable on iPads and Android tablets that don't have mobile data)
  • Can use Mobile Data when mobile data is enabled
  • Can send text instant messages
  • Privacy, I see some apps say they share messages with third parties.

Preferably I'd like to avoid in-App advertising too, and spam from the provider.

Surely there are still simple messaging apps that just do basic text messaging? I just can't find anything simple when looking through the Google Play Store. Probably I'm using the wrong search terms, or Google is only showing me sponsored results. I've also tried searching the internet, and keep finding five-year-old articles recommending apps that don't exist anymore.

Anyone know a suitable app?

Mobile

Comments

  • Hybroid on 24/06/2023 - 15:06
    +60

    Sounds like you're asking for too much. Consider why someone would pour in so much time and effort and cost to produce and maintain such a 'perfect' product they cannot monetise through selling user data, ads, premium features etc. Doesn't make any logical sense.

      • Hybroid on 24/06/2023 - 16:03
        +31

        You're wasting your time. Good luck getting your friends, family and relatives to all download and use a random 'five-year-old app', let alone something like Slack.

        The apps you listed are well established for a reason. I would have even suggested Discord but doubt meets your requirements somehow.

        Maybe you just figured out a new hobby/ambition. Learn to code and develop your own?

          • Randolph Duke on 26/06/2023 - 10:37
            +1

            @Russ:

            I am the "IT Support Guy" for all my family and relatives, despite my limited experience, so I'll have no trouble installing it on their phones myself.

            You’re going to have a hard time justifying why this is needed, and will no doubt annoy some people at your insistence of needing more software just for messaging.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/06/2023 - 16:43
        +2

        If you would self-host your server, there are open source solutions, like Wire. But then everyone would need to trust you.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/06/2023 - 17:04

          And if you get big, they will come after you. Lavabit

        • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 17:06

          I did look briefly at GitHub for such things, searching for XMPP clients. AstraChat looks good, and I found a comment somewhere that there are free online servers, with a link to a website. I followed the link and there was an offer to set up a free account. I'll have to try and find that again.

          Wire looks to have the same permissions as AstraChat, so thanks, I'll research both some more.

        • geekcohen on 26/06/2023 - 11:28
          +1

          Speaking of Self Hosted solutions. What about Self Hosted Slack Alternative, Mattermost.

          • [Deactivated] on 27/06/2023 - 09:59

            @geekcohen: Looks good too! But no calls and video.

      • smartazz104 on 25/06/2023 - 19:18
        +5

        And look at the number of people who give free advice on OzBargain.

        There's a reason much of that advice is free…

  • Kongzi on 24/06/2023 - 15:10
    +3

    Bird

  • spc12go on 24/06/2023 - 15:16
    +19

    Cup and string

    • Nugs on 24/06/2023 - 16:00
      +22

      So Vodafone based?
      .

      • ThithLord on 26/06/2023 - 09:51
        +2

        Oh, have they done some network upgrades?

        • iDroid on 27/06/2023 - 20:57

          I hear they've upgraded their string to Telstra rope - but still doesn't work quite the same.

  • JIMB0 on 24/06/2023 - 15:25
    +4

    Email

  • spackbace on 24/06/2023 - 15:26
    +6

    Sms…?

    • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 15:36
      -7

      that works via WiFi or mobile data

      I specified this because lots of younger people are on or moving to data-only plans, saying "SMS and voice are for oldies".

      Occasionally, I've seen SMS messages take hours to deliver. Which is sort of annoying when that message was "I'm outside, waiting to pick you up".

      • spackbace on 24/06/2023 - 15:37
        +5

        Tip: You can send texts over Wi-Fi even if you don't have cell service.

        • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 15:39
          -2

          How does that work on an iPad that doesn't have "cellular"? So it doesn't have a phone number.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/06/2023 - 16:54

          How?

  • onetwothreefour on 24/06/2023 - 15:33
    +12

    Facsimile

  • Savas on 24/06/2023 - 15:41
    +4

    i used Viber in app purchase to call a country I didn't have in my mobile plan… i thought it was pretty handy.

    also , whatsapp and signal can't send SMS ..

      • jswill on 25/06/2023 - 23:34
        +5

        Your assumptions are wrong, especially given permissions ≠ features.

        Whatsapp only uses that permission to verify your mobile number when signing up, and is not used after that – maybe try some of these apps (to determine usability, etc.) instead of suggesting others are using an old version / less informed?

        Given this I would say Whatsapp is your best option, especially given the other potentially sketchy / untrustworthy apps that you've looked into installing on the devices of your friends/family.

      • trongy on 26/06/2023 - 08:56
        +2

        Signal can't send SMS on the iPhone version.

        The Signal website has a blog article from October last year which talks about removing the SMS feature from the android app "soon". The default permission on my phone is that it doesn't have permission to send SMS. I think you would need to manually change Signal to be the default SMS app for it to use SMS.

  • Empharand on 24/06/2023 - 15:42
    +2

    • Bikies Messaging Service?
      -Not everyone has access though but it's definitely secure

    • Morse Code Machine / Telegraph?
      -Only secure because it's not widely used anymore, whether the government still monitor's transmissions is the question…
      -Isn't Android or iPhone compatible but if you're an engineer you could probably rig up some type of controller with servo motors (etc) to translate what you send to it into inputs on the machine
      -May have been considered partially 'Instant' in 1844

    • DoctorCalculon on 24/06/2023 - 23:13
      +1

      • Bikies Messaging Service?

      Might be too intrusive for OP since the feds are listening in.

  • Wowza on 24/06/2023 - 16:02
    +11

    Most devices these days will let you disable each individual permission for an app in Settings. Eg. I've got location denied for WhatsApp and everything still works (besides location sharing, obviously). Also I don't think WhatsApp sends sms, or maybe just to verify your number when registering?

    • [Deactivated] on 24/06/2023 - 16:56
      +3

      Try denying Whatsapp access to Contacts. Its ugly, I could not even add a contact without it.

    • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 16:25
      -6

      Thanks, but Line is pretty intrusive:

      • Contains ads
      • In-app purchases
      • Connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi
      • Directly call phone numbers
      • Location

      Currently the best looks to be Slack, judging from what Google Play lists: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Slack&hl=e…

  • Empharand on 24/06/2023 - 16:40
    +20

    OP, no offense to you but based on your responses thus far it appears there aren't any messaging services available that match your expectations (Which are a absurd to be honest, eg. Not wanting ads or in-app purchases but wanting a free privacy based messaging app - How do you expect these services to make money after investing 5-6+ digits into building their apps and wanting a return on their investment?).

    Maybe there's a niche for what you are after and a market of people that are interested, perhaps you should contact an app developer and pay to have the app (and service) created + pay to upkeep the service (Pay developers to fix issues as they arise, upgrade the app, Customer Service to respond to customer-related issues etc) and sell it on the App Store and Google Play for $$$, or based on your own expectations offer it for free with no ads etc (and therefore no return on investment)

      • freefall101 on 24/06/2023 - 18:41
        +22

        Please explain why? There are multiple free email providers and loads of free email apps. I didn't think it was too much to ask for a free IM equivalent. To me, text IM seems to be just slightly faster email.

        You realise those free email providers are harvesting your data? Gmail exists because it's an absolute treasure trove of information for Google. If you want end to end encryption with a decent email client, you'll general pay for it or just get access to a free tier.

        Many for-profit companies, e.g. IBM, have full-time programmers contributing to Linux, and they don't expect any payback.

        IBM is a consultancy company, they make a fortune via doing the implementations and enhancement on Linux based systems.

        Big companies don't just buy a server from Dell and install Linux on it and off they go. IBM contributes to help their clients meet their needs, they're not being benevolent.

      • SydStrand on 26/06/2023 - 00:14

        Literally everything you mentioned is monetised some way or other. How exactly do you think they pay for server fees? Even Linux makes money through commercial forks like Chrome OS or Android, and the kernel is developed by professionals, not hobbyists.

      • chiuy on 26/06/2023 - 19:53
        +1

        just use email as chat

        • Russ on 26/06/2023 - 23:43

          That's an interesting possibility. How would it work? The way emails include all previous emails when replying, along with a header saying who the previous sender is, will make it messy pretty quickly.

    • bmxr on 24/06/2023 - 17:04
      +17

      I agree.

      Based on the OP and subsequent responses, I fear for the "family and friends" that OP is the IT support person for.

      • lachhelix on 25/06/2023 - 00:11
        +4

        My thoughts exactly 😂
        IT people who over complicate things and create problems where there's no need

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 24/06/2023 - 16:47
    +13

    Light the beacons - it worked for Gondor

  • mbck on 24/06/2023 - 16:47
    +6

    You're using iPhone?? God, now everyone knows what you're doing!

    And android? Jesus, now everyone really knows what you're doing!!!

  • holdenmg on 24/06/2023 - 16:48
    +1

    Bat-Signal

    Morse Code

  • SBOB on 24/06/2023 - 16:50
    +6

    You want all of the customisable features and no intrusive permissions, and don't want to pay for it?

    If you think apps like signal aren't suitable there will be no app suitable for your wishlist.

    Remove some wish list limitations and start again

    • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 16:58
      -3

      I've already found one, see my comments above about Slack. Which people are voting down, and I don't know why.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/06/2023 - 17:22
        +4

        Which people are voting down, and I don't know why.

        Just smile and ignore, these are not relevant.

      • soan papdi on 24/06/2023 - 22:23
        +1

        Note that for free accounts, Slack only retains 90days of history. Rather it won’t show you older content unless you pay.

        • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 22:26

          Thanks!

  • [Deactivated] on 24/06/2023 - 16:58
    +4

    This is a very good post!

  • holdenmg on 24/06/2023 - 17:02
    +2

    EPIRB ?

    Semaphore Flag Signalling System
    https://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/semaphore.html

  • sumyungguy on 24/06/2023 - 17:27

    What features of Messenger don't fit your criteria?

  • brendanm on 24/06/2023 - 18:05
    +1

    Doesn't the stock android SMS/messaging app do this?

    • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 22:25

      SMS Messages are not encrypted, your Telco can read the messages. There are also ways the SMS can be captured from the transmitted radio signals, as popularised in the movie "Hunt for the Wilderpeople". The "Stingray" used in that movie is an actual device: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker

      • SBOB on 24/06/2023 - 22:57
        +9

        your Telco can read the messages.

        And so can slack.
        So what's the difference.

      • brendanm on 25/06/2023 - 09:01

        So you are warning to organise the distribution of meth with your family, rather than decide what time to have lunch on Sunday, got it.

        • moar bargains on 25/06/2023 - 13:11
          +1

          you are warning to organise the distribution of meth with your family

          I hear AN0M is the way to go for that

  • djones145 on 24/06/2023 - 18:12
    +14

    ICQ!

    • spackbace on 24/06/2023 - 20:21
      +10

      Uh oh!

    • Mechz on 24/06/2023 - 22:38
      +4

      Uh oh!

    • Sinnerator on 28/06/2023 - 08:19

      a/s/l

  • HardQuiz on 24/06/2023 - 20:42
    +7

    Session

    https://getsession.org/faq

    • Russ on 24/06/2023 - 22:15
      +6

      ThankYouThankYouThankYou!

      I have just been digging around on the internet, and just found three apps which meet or exceed all my criteria. Session is one of them, I could have saved time by staying logged in to OzBargain and waiting for your reply.

      The three secure instant messaging apps I found (which I will have to try out and evaluate) are:

      Session - Private Messenger
      SimpleX Chat
      Linphone

      All three are open source, and the code is on GitHub. Additionally, Linphone offer a free SIP server for encrypted voice calls made through their app, at https://subscribe.linphone.org/

      I found all three by looking for "similar apps" on the Apple App Store, and then cross-checking they exist on the Play Store. There's much less stuff to sort through on the Apple App Store, and it looks like its suggestions are better than those given by Google Play.

      • S2 on 26/06/2023 - 00:55
        +7

        Great work finding potential apps to suit your needs and sharing the information back to the rest of us.
        I'm really surprised at the numerous unhelpful replies in this post.

        • Russ on 26/06/2023 - 23:54
          +2

          Thanks!

          I'm really surprised at the numerous unhelpful replies in this post.

          Me too. I've seen a lot of nasty replies to posts of controversial topics, but I didn't think that asking for something free would attract so much negative attention. Perhaps many of the readers are programmers, and don't like me asking for a free app?

          A lot of the replies don't seem to be reading the actual post - even now, two days after I said I have found what I want, people are still recommending the apps I rejected, and even saying "Good luck with that" after I was successful?

          Perhaps it's related to the current economic conditions, and the stress they cause.

      • whyisave on 26/06/2023 - 05:54
        +3

        Just some things to think of…

        If you're using a phone numbe or Email address to sign up,
        then you're potentially "identifiable" from the beginning.

        If you have can install the App directly (.APK in Android),
        then that's better to do that, than to get it from the Play store.
        Google for better, or worse, vet the Apps (read: may install their own code).
        If you install the .APK directly, you just don't always get prompt notifications for updates.

        PS:
        See this for more learnings (and confusions!)

        • Russ on 27/06/2023 - 00:04
          +1

          I'm not worried about being identified. I don't need perfect security, I was just after something with a good privacy policy, and I explained that poorly. However I am a stickler for unnecessary permissions, and it looks like the only way to get an app without troublesome permissions or "in-app purchases" is to look for a messaging app with end-to-end encryption.

          Thanks for the chart, it shows Session as being the best overall, of the apps they rated.

    • silverrat23 on 25/06/2023 - 00:54
      +1

      Think someone has played Watch Dogs once and made that trailer.

  • DoctorCalculon on 24/06/2023 - 23:17
    +8

    Location (WhatsApp Messenger, Signal, Telegram, Zoom)

    You do realise you can simply deny all location permissions, right???

  • rbrb on 25/06/2023 - 07:20
    +2

    If you have a Synology NAS then they have a free chat service.
    https://www.synology.com/en-au/dsm/feature/chat

    You could always set up your own Nextcloud server and use their chat service as well.
    https://nextcloud.com/talk/

    • Chandler on 26/06/2023 - 06:53
      +1

      Surprised I had to scroll this far down to see NextCloud Talk mentioned - it was going to be my suggestion. I'll be looking at switching to it myself once I get my own NextCloud running.

  • H4nd0 on 25/06/2023 - 08:05
    +8

    Signal. https://signal.org/en/

    • RichieRichAus on 25/06/2023 - 08:30
      +4

      Signal is the answer.

      I don't know why you're complicating things

    • Hansi on 25/06/2023 - 18:53
      +4

      This - more people need to use this

    • OldSchoolHarry on 27/06/2023 - 10:39

      Signal is more simple, secure and private of the popular messaging apps.

  • Lurk Hartog on 25/06/2023 - 09:11

    Telex.

  • Tim-A on 25/06/2023 - 09:21
    +4

    Signal

  • mattyman on 25/06/2023 - 09:53

    I dunno. I'd want my apps to have one of those permissions.
    Send SMS. This is for 2FA/MFA. An app that has this will likely have a better grasp on security than others.

  • Deals For Days on 25/06/2023 - 18:57
    -1

    I prefer Threema to signal because you can EXPORT CHATS. Signal is hugely flawed in that, on iPhone, you cannot backup your chats at all, and require another iphone on hand to transfer all your chat data to. So if you ever change OS or lose that phone you lose all the chat history.

    Threema can at least export chats

    Frequently there are giveaways of android keys on their reddit.

  • Easyteas85 on 25/06/2023 - 19:15
    -2

    Whatsapp is easily the best. I really don't see any issue in the permissions. Unless you are a tin foil hat kinda person just install and use. Cross platform, fully encrypted and the most popular for a reason. It does everything but also a very simple messenger. Just turn off the permissions you are worried about. I'm sure it will still work. Location permissions most likely used for location sharing in WhatsApp's case. Actually a very useful feature… Can't find family at the park..? just share location W them for say 15 mins until you find eachother.. not nefarious!!

    • AustriaBargain on 25/06/2023 - 23:30
      +7

      It's a Facebook product. There's no way there's nothing nefarious about it.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2023 - 12:28
      +2

      Whatsapp wont work without getting all of your Contacts first. Including your mistress, your weed dealers and doctors

  • Sammy Boi on 25/06/2023 - 20:38

    Just use discord and stop whingeing.

    It's safe to use on those devices and it'll do the job you require

    Or as stated above signal.

    • Breno785au on 26/06/2023 - 15:30

      Unfortunately the OP can't because China owns Discord

    • OldSchoolHarry on 27/06/2023 - 10:40

      Discord isn’t end to end encrypted.

  • SupeNintendoChalmers on 25/06/2023 - 21:14

    Ravens

  • gekiyasu on 25/06/2023 - 21:24
    +1

    https://keybase.io/

  • FW190 on 25/06/2023 - 22:19
    +1

    maybe it is just me, if I am invited to join one of these family chat groups, then installing some app would be the perfect get-out-of-jail-free card for me, one reason why I never used Whatsapp, as quite a few annoying relatives kept harassing me to install it……….

    "sorry, dunno how to install apps"
    "but…. but….. don't you work in IT?"
    "nope not my area of expertise"
    "but…..but….."
    "just exactly which part of NO did you not understand?"

  • Cave Fire on 25/06/2023 - 23:10

    Those Chinese line of sight apps (circa 2010) were pretty lit + push to talk. Think they didn't need wifi or net. Also used Bonfire before it became Discord.

  • AustriaBargain on 25/06/2023 - 23:29

    You have to use a range of apps no matter what. Your Indian housemate will want to use What's app, friends your age will want to use Snapchat, your mom will use plain old iMessage, grandparents will use Messenger, etc.

    You'll never convert everyone you know to whatever app you use. Personally I just wish people would use plain text messaging/iMessage.

  • Ipodisclassic on 25/06/2023 - 23:49
    +1

    I really do pray for whatever friends and family you do tech support for as the IT person in your social group. Also I’d be extremely cautious of any app that promises to do all of your requirements. Developing and maintaining chat applications costs tonnes of money and it has to be generated or sourced from somewhere.

  • asianboyfriend on 25/06/2023 - 23:58
    +1

    Are you ok? Who hurt you?

  • OneFootUp on 26/06/2023 - 03:58
    +1

    XMPP server and client (app) is your only option and it's pretty secure if you are using the right client that provides End-to-end encryption with either OMEMO or OpenPGP. There are many people running free xmpp servers and your data should be safe if you are using the right app as mentioned earlier, or you can get cheap webhosting, domain and run your own xmpp server which is easy to setup.

    If you don't wish to use XMPP then, you will need to pay for cross platform app like Threema. But it's not open source code. I usually don't trust open source codes app either as there's no way to tell if the actual app running the open source code version, it's very grey area when it comes to trusting those apps.

    • whyisave on 26/06/2023 - 05:59

      provides End-to-end encryption

      E2E is the marketing sell to earn trust in the actual App,
      to create the idea that messages are secure in transit
      and safe from prying eyes IN TRANSIT.
      However, when all(?) Intel CPUs have a ring-0 compromise
      and also the 'right people' can get into your / receiver's phone through other means,
      E2E means squat.

      • Russ on 26/06/2023 - 21:43
        -1

        I'm not that paranoid, and I'm not up to anything nefarious. I don't even need end-to-end encryption, I'd be happy with a site with a good (and believable) privacy policy. However, looking for apps with encryption ended up being the easiest way to find an app without questionable permissions.

        Re the Intel CPU compromise: I do try to keep up with the tech news, and here's a serious hardware compromise that you may find interesting, that didn't get widespread coverage on the news: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h…

        I have no idea if that news story is real, or a "reds under the bed" scare. I found it interesting and plausible, with my limited knowledge of the innards of modern PCs.

        Edit: I just tried clicking a second time on my link, and now it gives me a "register to continue" message. If you can't view the link above, try opening this one in an incognito tab, it's a less-detailed follow-up story: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2021-supermicro/

        • whyisave on 27/06/2023 - 02:46

          I'm not that paranoid

          Privacy & anonymity, are 2 different things.

          .

          Re the Intel CPU compromise

          That "compromise" is built-into all Intel chips for 30 years (?),
          and no matter what amount of anti-virus, firewalling you have,
          that Intel chip backdoor lets people into your machine.

          Also, if you checked Wikileaks vaults' dumps,
          (which was hidden from most of the world)
          there was a crazy Linux kernel backdoor too,
          ie. it would not appear in the log files, etc.
          Tere are backdoors to so many things,
          until they are exposed, by when 'they' moved onto the next backdoor.

    • Chandler on 26/06/2023 - 06:52

      your data should be safe if you are using the right app

      Safe… for a time. Utilising a third-party relay means they have a copy of your encrypted message that they can hack away at for all time. The encryption will eventually get broken, and your messages made readable.

      Not saying they will do this, but they can.

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