How the hell can China Ship for Free to Your Door??!? by serpentza
Nothing is ever really free.
Important Update: @pilotyuan says there has been a fundamental change to the UPU https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/13918636/redir
Why We Really Shouldn't Be Shopping Directly from China
bargain huntress on 17/06/2023 - 12:34
Last edited 20/06/2023 - 21:51
Last edited 20/06/2023 - 21:51
Comments
Fifty cent army hard at work on Ozbargain lol
Cyrus Janssen
CCP Propagandist
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/13/technology/ch…What do you expect? When China uses economic cohesion, sanctions and spies to influence my Government decision making and my liberal democracy. China did this to us, and you expect us to kowtow to a authoritarian regime that is hostile to us? You can call Australians "white supremacist" what ever you have on your CCP NPC dialog tree, but if it's too hard, don't value liberal democracies, just go home or move there and teach English.
The greens are overjoyed to import flatpacked furniture all the way from china and approx 6 billion dollars of raw timber from overseas a lot of that rainforests clear felled and mostly no replanted. Villagers displaced animals at major risk of extinction.
Victoria’s sustainable native forestry industry operated on just 0.04% of the forest each year all replanted. No old growth timber touched by law this timber was actually regrowth timber.
But Daniel Andrews pushed by the greens has stopped all native timber harvesting in Victoria hundreds perhaps thousands of jobs will be lost as not enough plantations to transition to.
Instead we will import even more timber from overseas.
BS We trashed our forests. The industry has gutted forests here and flogged them at the lowest end cost. Less than a single % goes into high end usage,furniture etc.The industry cannot even grow a tree. 240+ years and not enough hardwood plantations to feed a mill for a month. Aust forestry millionaires rain rainforest overseas too.There are Strayan industry tentacles all over PNGs forests as they bribed their way via a few brown paper bags.
BTw the timber industry has so trashed the forest they have to thin the regrowth, which is either pulped or stuffed into sea containers. Aust loggers log because they can, not because there is a high value market.
The Lions share of Australian forest have ALWAYS been turned into low end,low value usage.The industry should actually compensate the public for the damage and the now rampant fungal diseases raging through the forest estate from corner to corner.
Go after the greens by all means, and Andrews, but the decision is too little too late. The social license evaporated decades ago, and then some.
Even a toddler can plant a tree. Not foresters,apparently. We import timber because of the sloth of a lazy industry not preparing for the inevitable.
do not buy rubbish chinese products
Ok I'll buy the good chinese products.
LoL
Lmao Uyghurs are the most privileged class in china. How much freer should they be? Perhaps send them to the US so they can be a statistic in the daily casual gun violence 😂
Perfectly correct.
Free board with meals. plus re-education, shaves and regular welfare checks from the MPS - whether they want it or not.
Well what's the alternative? China could flatten them like the US have done with terrorist.
It's hilarious to think the US for the most part don't like Muslims (only 20 years of war and millions of deaths) or the Chinese.
But they love Chinese Muslims LOL.@jackspratt: Considering you failed to read my other post you happily replied to, it might be best you pickup a newspaper.
@jackspratt: Please understand that China was a communist country, which means it had an extremely left-wing government. Just imagine that whatever the US Democratic Party is doing, the Communist Party of China (CPC) did it much more extremely 40 years ago. Currently, China is no longer a communist country (it practices capitalism), but some of the policies still continue. Many of these policies aim to improve the social status of ethnic minorities and support their religions.
For example, there are close to 30,000 Muslim mosques in China (with 500 people per mosque), compared to around 100 mosques in Australia (with 8,000 people per mosque) and 2,000 mosques in the US. Most public schools and universities have special kitchens that provide halal-certified food. Economic policies also aim to benefit minority regions, such as tax deductions for regional products and additional funds for startup companies, among others.
One thing I forgot to mention is that China has its own National College Entrance Examination (Gaokao). Ethnic minorities receive extra points directly added to their total score. Just imagine if you are an Aboriginal person, you can add an extra 10 points to your HSC result. Unlike in Australia or the US, Gaokao is the only way to become a university student in China. If you fail it, you have to wait another year and try again. The extra 10 points can make a significant difference. For many students, it can be like heaven or hell.
I am not saying that the living conditions of Uyghurs are fancy, clearly they are not. The Chinese government cannot provide things it cannot afford. Besides, as we all know, there are extremist Muslim groups that exist. But compared to how most countries deal with their problematic ethnic minorities, such as the Rohingya, Roma, or Native Americans in the US, the Chinese government has not done a bad job. After all, it's worth noting that the Uyghur population has increased from 8 million in 2000 to 11 million in 2020, and the life expectancy has reached 74.7. In comparison, the life expectancy for Indigenous males in Australia is 71.6, and for Indigenous females, it is 75.6.
I hope this gives you a better idea of the Uyghurs in China.
@testert: Don't bother trying, these brainwashed drones only believe the 'reports' from people out of Germany LOL
The truth doesn't sell weapons nor does it create hysteria in westernersI hope this gives you a better idea of the Uyghurs in China.
It was interesting (disregarding the absurd second sentence), but does not explain the equally absurd claim that:
Uyghurs are the most privileged class in china
@jackspratt: The fact is: I do not know if Uyghurs are the most privileged class in China.
Let me put it this way: privilege works both ways; it has to be agreed upon by both sides to be considered a privilege. For extremist groups, any privileges can be manipulated as a policy to manipulate people and harm the culture. Some of my Muslim friends, who are locals, have told me that the extremists they have encountered want to eradicate all aspects of modern lifestyle and return to a traditional nomadic way of life on the grasslands.
Regarding the claim of privilege, even if they do not have additional perks such as halal-certified kitchens in schools, etc., to most Chinese, the extra 10 points in Gaokao alone symbolizes privilege. I don't expect foreigners to understand it, but it forms the foundation of Chinese values. For many Chinese, they believe Gaokao is the only opportunity to change their social status, and it is considered the most fair system thus far. (This explains why many Asian students perform exceptionally well in HSC, VCE, etc.)
Long in short: does Han think Uyghurs are privileged? yes; does Uyghurs think themself are privileged? depends on want join the modem society or not; to East Turkestan independence supporters, none of these matters.
@testert: Any comment on this report, which indicates the opposite of what you are saying about Gaokao privilege for Uyghurs?
https://www.eupoliticalreport.eu/an-educational-test-for-chi…
Of course, what Gaokao privilege exists is for all minorities in China.
@jackspratt: Human are the only story telling animal. You have one side of story already. I simply give you another side of story. After all, it is impossible for me to change how another pick the story.
The point is not only how you believe this story; but also how Chinese believe it; how Muslim world believes it; how the most powerful nations believe it. With latest US foreign policy, the topic itself is drop dead.
I have no doubt new story will popup from time to time. But it seems no body cares, no new deplimatic actions.@testert: Know what is important is the actual reality and truth. Not one spin or another spin on it, or who believes which.
@bargain huntress: Human history is shaped by stories. Things can become true when enough people believe in them, or at least, when individuals who experience them perceive them as true until they pass away. Consider that an individual's lived experience encompasses all that they can hold, and once it is gone, the distinction between truth and falsehood becomes inconsequential.
@bargain huntress: Well, you sound like typical media. When a topic cannot sell, they start pointing fingers at individuals.
@bargain huntress: LOL,
Harry and Meghan are the latest chum to a media of opportunistic sharks.The same media who drove his Mother to death (literally) and who have preyed on Royals for years, now love the Royals, and hone in on the only one with a 'tanned' partner.
Not only do I sympathise with Harry, but I admire his strength in the face of a global bullying camping. For what actual gain? So he slits his wrist for the next level up Uncle Rupert et al, Harry & Meghan mini series?
I think Harry is an easier and lazier target than the old Merrca good China bad dichotomy."How very dare Harry shine a light on his life."
@bargain huntress: BTW, the down vote just proves my point: when enough people talk about a story, it just become believed truth. Does people like to be challenged? The answer is clear.
"do not buy rubbish chinese products"
Including cotton produce from the uyghur province???????
Have watched this guy's videos for some time, and noticed his dramatic shift of perspectives. Then a couple of "exposed" videos came out. https://youtu.be/GRqcA04FtmM
https://youtu.be/dHAO080lQUYThe only "shift" was because he couldn't tell the whole truth while living in China lest he be "disappeared." Funny how some people fall right in line regarding the CCP's treatment of Uyghurs, but when it's a white guy, he must be making it all up cause he's a racist. Not far into that first video, baldy conehead says "exploit and abuse Chinese people"… FALSE. He often shames the CCP, criminals, people doing various wrong things, but he constantly says how great everyday Chinese people are. Since he has outright lied about that, the rest of his video is not worth watching.
The second video is from a different guy, and is pretty damning.
Perhaps you ought to watch it.
Tell us more about Uyghurs, it seems the white guys are most vocal about it. Not whisper from other muslim nations.
Perhaps you can tell is what you know, you probably haven't step foot in XinJiang let alone China. IF China really didn't like ethnic muslims why do they have the most mosque in the world, why did China exclude Muslims from stupid policies like One baby? Why are there millions of Halal/muslim restaurants, why are there Uyghur celebrities. Just stop.
You know nothing.
Are these the mosques with or without the demolished minarets & domes?
@TightAl: Was he demolishing minarets and domes like the Chinese government?
Tell us more - but try to stay on subject.
It ain't me that knows 0 when a rudimentary glance through that guy's several most-recent videos shows your supposed "white supremacist" defending Africans and Indians from CHINESE racism.
Agree. Baldie's video is bollox.
Naah if its cheaper for me I'll buy it. Unless you want to pay me to buy products here? Yeah I dont think anyone would. :)
Lol, serpentza, no thanks.
whio ?
The government in China subsidizes air mail for Chinese companies to export abroad. That's why you can buy a $1 item and have it air mailed to you, but it costs $15 to ship it the other way. The volume of mail is probably 50:1 heading to Australia than the other way, and the carrier here has to bear the cost of delivering those $1 trinkets people love so much.
Also China is officially classified as a Developing country, so gets all sorts of privileges and cost reductions allowed to struggling and poor nations. Who classified China as a Developing nation? The government in China did. Under WTO rules the status is self declared.
^ Excelent TL:DR summation here
Thank you
I identify as a developing person. Where are my privileges and cost reductions?
Wrong.
All postal services have an agreement - to deliver letters/parcels that arrive at their shores for no cost. Because this is reciprocal. Aust Post does not have the infrastructure to ship things to individual persons in China. Just like they don't have it in the USA, or other countries. So USPS delivers parcels from Australia that arrive in the USA. And Aust Post delivers parcels that arrive in Australia from the USA. This happens with all countries.
The cost to ship stuff to China is the price Aust Post charges to get it to China. And the easy proof of that is how much a parcel costs to send stuff from the West Coast (Perth) to the East Coast (Sydney)
he's not wrong, you are wrong. did you actually watch the video or read the posts?
you are correct we do not pay a DIRECT RETAIL cost once a parcel arrives in another country.
BUT DELIVERY THERE IS NOT FREE.
every postal service including Australia Post and the chinese postal service PAYS membership to the United postal union to get the recipricol delivery agreement for 'free' delivery in each others countries.
they then put some of that cost into their retail pricing.
CHINA DOES NOT PAY THE UPU A FAIR AMOUNT FOR THEIR MEMBERSHIP because they pretend to be a developing nation.
SO THEY GET POSTAGE SUBSIDISED BY EVERYONE ELSE.
it's even worse on top of this but thats a basic level
I think your information is very outdated and incorrect.
UPU membership fees are a relatively small sum to keep the UPU running. Also, from January 2021, countries with more inbound mail than outbound mail can set their own fees. AFAIK, a normal person going to CN post to mail an iphone case to an AU address will cost him about 3-5 US dollars
You might call it BS because some sellers sell for less than that, so where's their profit? The answer is sales volume. Professional sellers can sell 1,000 cases a day. They have more bargaining power than the average seller, and if peak season and manifests are tight, they can even book air freight and Auspost will happily pick it up at the airport and offer a discounted price. If the seller is not big enough, there are large cargo agents like Cainiao who can collect the package and provide bulk shipping.
This is how the logistics system shapes itself.
@pilotyuan: I had not heard about the changes at the UPU.
Thats big news.
I must be wrong in that case!
Do you have any sources you can share?
The sales volumn arguement is sort of true, but also maybe sort of not. Becasue there is some reporting that sometimes they sell below cost in order to purposefully destroy foreign industries. How much evidence there is versus speculation is a bit debatable. Its very hard to get reliable numbers out of there. And to be fair that kind of trade war #*$^ is done by lots of other countries too at times.
@bargain huntress: Here it is:
https://www.upu.int/en/Postal-Solutions/Programmes-Services/…Trade wars happen all the time, at the national level or at the corporate level. Sometimes you see sellers selling below cost just to keep competitors away, or maybe they're just dumping excess inventory, but I doubt the government subsidizes postage directly, you're talking billions of packages a year . Imagine if the CN government subsidizes $1 or even $0.1, how they will get that money back, even the CN government will have a balance sheet to take care of.
@pilotyuan: Thanks very much for the link!
It is a bit hard to understand at first read.
So are you saying self-declared E format rates lets everyone pay whatever they want?
What kind of numbers are we talking about?
@bargain huntress: I don't have exact numbers, I think the numbers are only shared among members.
As far as I know, Australia has the right to determine the freight rate for the second leg within Australia. Given the evidence that shipping rate from China have risen significantly in recent years, I think Australia has already done this
whats her @ on thumbnail?
Im supporting myself and 3 other australians in my home by buying direct from china.
Charity begins at home.
It does.
Then it spreads out.
So if your ever in a better position maybe you can start supporting local businesses.Just keep in mind that you are paying more than the price tag for what you buy. The costs are just less obvious.
This the same dude who was singing praise for China when he was using it to make bank, and now he can't any more, so he turned on the country?
Guess he's living up to his serpent name.
From what I've viewed today you're telling lies. His message has never changed, he's just free to tell the whole story now. i.e. He always praised the Chinese people, still does in nearly every video, but if you go back to when he left it's obvious he mostly self-censored regarding the CCP until he got his wife across the border and away from the insidious control and abuse (which the CCP then focused upon her relatives still in China instead).
Except his wife's channel is now all about how great American men are. Must be greasing the wheels to their new countrymen.
I'm shoppin like a billionaire lululul
Well, that's the issue, right ?
The world needs less billionaires and people won't even miss them, if/when they're gone!
Then, it will allow the redistribution of the wealth back to everyone :-)
serpentza is a useless racist shill. Wouldn't even waste my time clicking on the link to listen to his clickbait nonsense.
He looks like a loser and his suit is ugly. Seems like the typical type of white guy who goes to Asia to “teach English”.
I don't really care where I buy from so long it cheap and with excellent features. I love my DJI gadgets and drone and my Huawei P30 pro ( still loving it). Pff why everything have to involve with politics.
Because they only involve Politics when it comes to China. Its an absolute joke.
Wow i read something on the news about China, don't buy chinese products!Meanwhile the first world country we follow is an absolute hell hole, backwards nation pumping for their military complex to keep the 1%s happy and wealthy. Meanwhile quality of life on their shores have never been lower.
Its not politics. One thing its about is your very own self interest. Youre just choosing your short term interests over your medium and long term interests.
serpentza does a neat thing where he takes a half-truth and spins it into fear-mongering while ignoring the bigger picture. Here he says that China ships packages for practically nothing (true) because of subsidies (true) and shipping agreements with other countries (half-truth) and this means that the receiving country's taxpayers will bear the burden (fear-mongering).
Postage services which are owned by the government run on very slim profit margins or at a loss to ensure a consistent level of quality and makes sure postage is affordable for everyone. That's what we're paying for. Can you imagine if it was privately owned and upper management decides to go full-capitalism by cutting operating costs just to make more money. Our taxes doesn't go up because we're constantly buying $3 items free ship from China and whatnot.
Shipping is determined by an international Treaty. If its posted express, it has to be delivered express in the destination country.
It is a huge problem because Australian businesses have to pay more e.g. Australian book-sellers were obliterated by the Book Depository in the UK taking advantage of this treaty.
The only solution (obviously) is to cut domestic postage rates significantly so Australian business has a level playing field. I obviously dont know how to do that.
I may be mistaken but I thought Book Dep. was extremely attractive because postage+delivery made it cheaper than going out to a physical store and buying the book. Either way, the model seemed to be unsustainable in the end because it was competing directly against its parent company in Amazon and they gimped the company and its tens of thousands of employees.
The only solution (obviously) is to cut domestic postage rates significantly so Australian business has a level playing field. I obviously dont know how to do that.
I recall a shipping program AusPost brought out around 10 years ago. I can't remember the name….Shipster? Sendster? Free postage on orders over $25 from Chemistwarehouse, HN, Rebel sports, etc. and each company in the deal made an agreement to offer the service and subsidize it so they could all support each other and go up against Amazon and ebay. It died within a year.
I don't know who actually paid for Shipster subscriptions though, I only remember getting a free 12 month subscription.
@bamzero: I think I got mine from Groupon or an early-beta signup. Never used the full 12 months and it was free.
@nGu: Yeh you could get a free 12 months from a lot of the participating retailers. Only 5 years ago though, not 10 :)
Postage services which are owned by the government run on very slim profit margins or at a loss to ensure a consistent level of quality and makes sure postage is affordable for everyone. That's what we're paying for.
Theyve been a government owned corporation since 1989!
Yes they run on profit margins so slim they give $20k in Cartier watches as executive gifts.
Can you imagine if it was privately owned and upper management decides to go full-capitalism by cutting operating costs just to make more money.
They literally do this frequently.
Yes they run on profit margins so slim they give $20k in Cartier watches as executive gifts.
"In the 2021-22 financial year, Australia Post made a slim profit of $55 million on revenues of $8.97 billion. That's a 0.6% profit margin, far below the 8.5% average within the transport services sector."
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/finance/economy/end-australi…
"Performance for the half year to 31 December 2022: Group revenue $4.69 billion, down 2.4 per cent on same period last year (1H22) Group profit before tax $23.6 million, down 88.2 per cent from $199.8 million in 1H22. Letters revenue $881.9 million, down 5.7 per cent on prior corresponding period."
https://www.miragenews.com/letters-decline-weighs-heavily-on…
0.6% profit margin in 2021, and 2022 revenue was almost half of 2021.
Genuine thanks for the stats.
I dont care what percentage it is, 55 millies should not be considered a slim profit margin.
Personally I dont believe they should have any profit margins because I think they should still be a governement department.
They are an essential SERVICE.
@bargain huntress: I mean, they're practically making nothing. If they're making almost 20x less than what private logistics/transport companies are making then imagine what DHL, FedEx, etc. make.
In any case, what are your thoughts on the video? You posted it but I'm not certain what your position is on all of this
@nGu: I think its a big piece in the terrifying mess that is the australian economy.
Not to mention the western economy and the world economy.I notice people commenting arent realizing that the real cost is so much more than tax.
The real cost is our economy, and our society.
This situation isnt the only destructive way we are paying with that, but its significant.
@bargain huntress: In your opinion, is it bad that we're relying too much on China? And that this over-reliance will impact Auspol and the economy?
The real cost is our economy, and our society.
This situation isnt the only destructive way we are paying with that, but its significant.specifically speaking, what are the negative impacts that you're referring to?
If i buy directly from China it doesn't add to our stupid inflation tracking the RBA does.
I'll keep trying to not buy anything Australian till the RBA restores the cash rate to 3%. Doing my bit to make that recession Lowe wants happen.
Should really research before posting and giving vloggers like that another platform to advertise. Winston Sterzel makes money the same way that Andrew Tatt does. Interestingly, his wife (who is Chinese) cops a bit of flake for her vlogs as well (quick scan and you will understand why).
Andrew Tate had a giant coaching pyramid scheme
you don't even know what you are talking aboutMust have touched on a sensitive topic for you. Both make money by sprouting nonsense to the easily impressionable - perhaps someone like you?
I mean i guess i see the long bow connection your making but they do have different business models and completely different levels of alleged immoral unethical actions.
If youre going to argue that anyone on social media making ad revenue who says things which you find objectionable….
is equivalent to a guy who was also doing a coaching pyramid scheme and involved in some kind of sex trafficing, pornographic slavery ring thing….
Well that's a awful lot of youtubers who should be in jail by your logic.
@bargain huntress: So bargain huntress is there a particular reason why your OP is basically clickbait? That is what I believe FlyingMiffy is talking about. You are basically free advertising the video and most of what they talk about was what exactly? Put that in your OP and future OPs.
It's then easy to actually have a discussion say "yes this person might be onto to something" or "this person might be a completely nincompoop."
I had to go to the video to find the info and I either knew it or it was a stretched truth it's always the second. Which is what Vbloggers love and they love it when fans share their video as clickbait with no information as to what is about. That from what I understand in the Andrew Tate model."Not you will never believe this…." "I did not know this." "I learned something" Don't offer any discussion.
I watched it and was bored after 10mins and I watch sleeping cats/kittens video live streams. There is literally no point to 9 mins of the first 10 mins of the video so stopped it and disliked it. Since I reacted to the video I will now end up getting more nonsense videos so umm thanks?
This guy, Matt Barrie tells it like it is. It's hard to disagree with him. Highly recommend a listen to this long form interview on the state of the australian economy.
I watched that video last night. That guy knows exactly what’s going on. Anyone who disagrees is asleep (sadly many people are).
ive been thiking about posting a thread about that video for days!
Get real: This guy has a DOCTORATE, is much closer to Xi Jingping and Albo:
Im not sure what your point is by posting that video?
I did find these commenfs on it interesting though:
@midimusicforever
9 days ago
140 million deaths = 280 million moms and dads losing their only son. Yeah, that would totally sit down well.@Shinobubu
9 days ago
That's exactly the problem that I had to illustrate to my family . every soldier in the PLA is a single child princeling. Each death extinguishes the family tree from the face of the earth.@liselottehildegarde5367
9 days ago
560,000,000 grandparents who just lost their retirement caregiver because pensions just aren't enough
Bulk shipping
We know its you Gerry! lol
Hard not to though, AliExpress shipping is better than ever with their "fast shipping" sellers. Getting stuff in 10 days or less, even slow shipping items are getting combined and sent together with the fast ones if the timing is right.
Most of my Amazon orders are taking longer than that these days.
I know it really is hard. Both in terms of practicality and in terms of temptation.
Ultimately MIC stuff is cheaper because… they get paid peanuts to make make those things.
And their non-existing/or enforced laws and regulations regarding workers rights and entitlements, taxation, health and safety in the workplace, proper waste disposal and pollution means that their manufacturers can short cut a lot of things and pump out shit for a lot less costs than almost anyone else.
And the control of their currency to make their export work in their favour.
It's not a level playing field. There's no way we can compete with China on manufacturing, and it's not entirely our fault that we've been priced out of this industry.
Why would you post videos of this twat.
Ts want to promote racism
Hating China is trendy.
I literally stumbled across @serpentza on YouTube yesterday, love his videos, especially the ones regarding EV's catching on fire and his take on China in general.
It really does make me more conscious anytime I think of buying something from China now, as we are impacting our own taxes and economy, which I didn't quite understand until I watched that video.
Recap*
Okay, maybe I start to think differently about his objectional views and truth… Sure he is entertaining to watch, but I guess most BS is…
Some "exposed" videos came out. https://youtu.be/GRqcA04FtmM
https://youtu.be/dHAO080lQUYAny news of Chinese EVs catching fire in Straya yet?
LOL the chair shoes are awesome
Thanks op for the suggestion
This guy says that postal costs are subsidised for China and we end up paying for it. What part of that is a horrific lie?
I'm genuinely curious about you dismissing this person with extreme prejudice while offering little reason to reject what was actually presented in the video.