Is there a difference in diesel between brands, such as Ampol, Shell?
Any diesel recommendations for my VW 2017 turbo diesel wagon?
Is There a Difference in Diesel Fuel between Brands?
Comments
The facebook pages I read…
Thank you for your service!
That's a bit rude
Why? Very reliable and fuel efficient combo.
Negative past experience with vw diesel?
@brendanm: Jumping on the euro-out-of-warranty hate? Or once had an 80s golf that had to be push started because it had a dead battery?
negative past experiences
Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance
@SBOB: That's what everyone says, but its not really true. People basically say that to protect themselves from legal repercussions, or to parrot something everyone else is saying.
But they know no-one really listens. Basically every human (alive and dead) in the world, use past experiences to judge future outcomes. From the early days of hunting in the savannah to the latter stages of diversifying your stock-market portfolio.
Ozbargain = European car scary
All yours for 30k, el cheapo ;)
I’m not an expert. Been putting ‘whatever’ diesel in our cars for years. Never noticed any real difference.
IMO the amount of additive they put in the ‘premium’ diesel is all for marketing, and not for measurable performance.
I have never found a significant difference between diesel fuel brands. Costco, Liberty, Shell, Ampol, BP. They all claim to have additives to clean your engine and improve fuel economy.
"Specially formulated to bust dirt in both old and new engines, bp Ultimate Diesel contains millions of molecules that clean critical engine parts with every drop and work in two clever ways"
https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fu…Yes, 'millions of molecules' sure sounds impressive, until you realize there are over a sextillion molecules in a drop of water.
there probably isnt a lot and diesels arnt tuned on the ragged edge or have ecu's that compensate fast enough
there is a difference in the petrol though but you only see it on the dyno, vortex is more oxygenated and requires slightly higher duty cycles to maintain the correct AFR. Shell will take 1-2 degrees more ignition advance. Ultimate is between the 2 and united 98 seems to be a blend mixed with e85, at least it was or was at some stations but not others. If someone 100% always uses the same fuel there can be 1-4% power if tuned for that fuel, but in most cases tune it a little fat and take out 1-2 degrees of timing and you can run any pump fuel
Sex-tillion! Those bloody molecules have been breeding!
apart from marketing its pretty much Duff, Duff Lite, Duff Dry…
whatevers cheapest, be that Costco, 7-11 chopper, etc.
Back when I used to really be into my cars it was pretty much BP Ultimate 98 only. The highly reliable seat of the pants dyno told me that the car ran smoothest on it with Optimax (yes this was a while ago) being the one I liked least
These days it's whatever is cheapest, even if it's Fudd*
*not really I just wanted to throw in a reference. I will usually use what's cheapest from the big brands (i.e. BP, Mobil, Ampol). In most cases I fill with Mobil (because 7/11 price lock).
Taking the Duff joke to a new level :)
You should be using Ultra Advanced Premium Vortex Super Amplify Ultimate 98 Diesel Plus+. It's now 15% improved.
Is that like the LGBTQQIP2SA of fuels?
Stay away from United.. apart from that it’s all the same shit.
Because…?
Fuels are more or less the same.
The main difference will be in the location you purchase it from.
For example a fuel station that gets a lot of people filling up on diesel is likely to not have it sitting there for weeks before the tanks are refilled.
United don’t seem to clean their tanks as regularly as a good BP so you can also pick up residue and crap that’s been accumulated in the petroleum station fuel tanks.Got anything no other than anecdote on the tank cleaning thing? I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s mandated how often to clean them and they all work to minimum.
@Euphemistic: A fleet of 10 trucks, with various insurance cases over the years of dirty fuels. It's not perfect, but helps with the insurance claims when you take and store samples every time you fill up.
The lining of a fuel storage tank needs checking every 3 years, from memory. However a visual inspection more regularly, especially a thorough clean, helps significantly. We've taken to having all the trucks filling up at BPs that have (a) high diesel car + truck turnover; and (b) are seen to be cleaning the tanks more regularly. Haven't had any issues as a result.
I'd say stay away from smaller chains. My wife's Mondeo would always splutter during idle when using United or Apco fuel (from a certain location). I was told that it's due to amount of water content or contamination in their fuel. When I use bp or mobil that's never an issues.
diesel?
They pump from the bottom of their storage tanks, not the top… where the water would float.
idle behaviour is likely due to one or several other reasons.
Diesel has to meet minimum specifications, so most of them are very similar (they all generally get it from the same source).
However the quality of the diesel you actually get can vary widely, as the storage tanks each service station uses are of different quality / maintained to differing standards.
Generally sticking with the larger brands may be a better option, as they have a reputation to uphold (however this is not always the case).One thing I would suggest for a VW turbo diesel, is to make sure you regularly service your engine oil. I believe your service manual has it at 15K, I would recommend 10K engine oil service unless you are doing a lot of highway driving. Cleaner lubrication works better, so have less engine wear, and should also help reduce carbon build-up on your intake due to PCV and EGR systems. Oil is cheap, engines are expensive. Engine oil change is easy, so learn to do it yourself.
Also, you may want to run a bottle of diesel injector cleaner through your system at every service. They are cheap enough and should help maintain your injectors.
European cars are expensive to get worked on, so preventative maintenance is well worth it in this case.
you may want to run a bottle of diesel injector cleaner through your system at every service. They are cheap enough and should help maintain your injectors.
Any mechanics want to weigh in on this? Isn’t diesel a good cleaner, and the additives in special diesel are supposed to clean injectors?
A very experienced mechanic just did a big carbon buildup clean of intake of one of my diesel cars that's passed 100K km and 10 years old recently and I asked about diesel additives. I've been using them every 3 months on both cars. He said what I've been getting at supercheap / repco is mostly a waste of money. There are a few better brands like Liqui Moly but he uses a product I've not seen in shops called PowerMaxx. Having said that he said cleaning carbon buildup involves taking things apart. The additives only help a little bit. You can't just clean with the fuel additives basically…
BTW My car would have been pretty bad because fuel consumption has improved significantly after the service. I thought it'd be like 5% but it turned out to be around 15% improvement.
Additives in diesel fuel are injected directly into the cylinder, they can do exactly nothing to decarbon your intake.
Also, you may want to run a bottle of diesel injector cleaner through your system at every service. They are cheap enough and should help maintain your injectors.
I can say in the past I've had experience using this diesel fuel additive in our VW Jetta and seemed to make a noticeable difference in power and economy - https://www.liquimoly.com.au/diesel-clean-boost Never had any engine issues after using it over several times. Also serviced the engine around every 10K.
Petrol is a near perfect poison. Diesel is an organic oil full of living microbes.
Freshly refined is what is best the colder it is kept the longer it lasts.
Microbes keep water within, usually not an issue but if microbes have the right condidions the growth can clog filters, let alone shorten the life of the injection pump.
Diesel is naturally a longer hydrocarbon chain that is measured in cetane.
Your vehicle's filter and water trap maintenance are crucial to the engines longevity.
As for your brand, ask other users.What does your car manual say? Read the manual first. No point putting any more than it asks.
Putting any more what?
Money?
I don't think any car manual I've seen asks you to put money in your car?
@brendanm: You're just not looking at high return investment vehicles manuals enough ;)
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/bmw-australia-introduces-su…
I'm going to buy a diesel car before I die just so I can hit the high flow button.
Most high flow nozzles wont fit a car fuel filler neck, only trucks :-(
But some do. That's the one I'll use. 😉
I often hit the hi flow button at the pump and get disappointed it’s not any quicker. Sometimes it increases flow, but not massively.
@Euphemistic: Haha yes I can vouch majority are a placebo
Only proper high flow when the nozzle is bigger/wider
true, costco has normal size nozzles but with high flow option, probably not as much as the large diameter but still faster compared to normal
It's all comes from the same dinosaurs.
I stick with the big companies for fuel as I think that there is less chance of the fuel being watered down (not with water but with another substitute). It used to happen, but I don't know if it currently happens.
I have a Mazda CX5 diesel and the drive is noticeably smoother and quieter when I use premium diesel from Ampol or BP as compared to ordinary diesel from Coles.
Have you measured that or is it the notoriously inaccurate seat of the pants dyno? The seat of the pants dyno that is highly swayed by brand loyalty and marketing?
Seat of the pants dyno… It's sensory perception.
The difference between ordinary/truck diesel and premium diesel is about 2-4 cents only. Brand/marketing has no impact on how the car drives. The difference is not huge like between U91 and U95/98 petrol. It's a no brainer.Ok. You do you. IMO the only reason ‘truck’ diesel is any cheaper is because it’s out the back and has an extra greasy nozzle. My seat of the pants can notice nil difference between fuels and my records of fuel consumption (every tank for years now) says there’s no difference in economy either.
Do you think truck owners are going to put inferior fuel into a rig worth hundreds of thousands?
@Euphemistic: Why are you arguing? OP asked for input and I provided my opinion. You don't have to agree with it. I never said anything about fuel economy. Truck diesel is not always at the back. Some people are more sensitive to changes and others are not. The last 2 statements are a fact.
@mjerath: Arguing because the same old argument is used by people putting premium fuel in their car that isn’t tuned for it, can’t take advantage of it and yet somehow definitely get more power/economy out of it.
Yes, some people are more sensitive to subtle changes but particularly for ‘premium’ diesel there is so little difference in the fuel your brain tricks you into thinking that because you’ve paid more it must be performing better. If you’ve got any hard evidence I’ll be happy to hear it, but my evidence says otherwise. That’s why I mentioned economy, because it’s the one thing anyone can easily measure. ‘Noticeably better’ does not mean anything without evidence.
But like I said, you do you. If you paying extra for fuel makes you feel better, go for it.
@Euphemistic: I generally don't argue where opinions are concerned but let's do it.
"Arguing because the same old argument is used by people putting premium fuel in their car that isn’t tuned for it, can’t take advantage of it and yet somehow definitely get more power/economy out of it." Are you talking about diesel or petrol?
"particularly for ‘premium’ diesel there is so little difference in the fuel". So you are admitting there's a difference in the fuel?
"If you’ve got any hard evidence" If you can guide me how to measure the smoothness.
"But like I said, you do you." Please don't make it personal. I can also say same about you.
Are you talking about diesel or petrol?
It applies to both, but you brought up petrol first.
So you are admitting there's a difference in the fuel?
Yes, there is a difference. They chuck some minute quantity of ‘special’ additives in otherwise the ACCC might have words about selling a false product
If you can guide me how to measure the smoothness.
I’m sure they’re a way. Engine dyno, noise, some sort of vibration meter. But it’s unlikey to find anything.
"But like I said, you do you." Please don't make it personal. I can also say same about you.
It is a comment on your personal opinion to which you are entitled. No need to get offended, I’m not commenting on you as a person, just this particular opinion.
Edit: took me a while to work it out too but using ‘>’ symbol at the start of the line indents your quote and highlights it
Just throwin 2 cents into this.
I mainly stick to using BP. Why? The rewards card.
No, the rewards doesn't stack up to any savings at all, but if I dont take a receipt and blow my car up 2 kms down the road due to water (my filter "should" do its job)
I have it captured and can use my pattern to show I only use BP fuel….I had a mate lose a supra engine cause he forgot the receipt (yeah, petrol i know). Was anal about his car and never bought fuel elsewhere.
Mobil had 0 f's to give and this was back in the ole days when cash was king.
End of the day, due to this i'm going out to buy some powermaxx and let that run through before i drop another 50 ml of 2 stroke oil into the next refuel..Back in my environmental compliance days, i worked on vapour recovery units. By utilizing a Vapor Recovery Unit, fuel terminals can significantly reduce emissions and prevent the release of harmful vapors into the environment. This helps ensure compliance with environmental regulations, improves air quality, and promotes sustainable practices within the fuel industry. These systems would recover and condense vapours that are otherwise released, thus, in turn, earning significant tax credits for the company (as they would offset pollution and gain a marketable product from the process (i.e. the ole win-win). Anyways, I would receive the load-out information from the terminal as I was performing the environmental compliance monitoring, and Diesel fuel being loaded into bulk tankers, was just that, Ultra Low Sulfur 10 (ULS10) (i.e. less than 10 ppm v/v Sulphur) Diesel fuel.
With saying that, this was the bulk transfer, so from the port to storage, to trucks/trains. I've no idea what the companies may do downstream from this.
The facebook pages I read all the time basically say no, except for an additive.
I'd be keen to see some experts perspectives too