Driving question because maybe I don't know how to drive..

roozmik on 17/05/2023 - 16:55
Last edited 19/05/2023 - 09:43

There is this route I go down regularly, but every time I go down it, I always question what I'm supposed to do…
I see people do different things, which doesn't help.. then I also do different things.

The street is a narrow suburban street with a cross road as pictured.

The blue and red cars are facing a stop sign.

There is often a long line of blue and red cars banked up.

I am in the first blue car. When can I turn right?

https://imgur.com/a/whJuGwp

  • The orange cars are just for context.. there can be a steady stream of those cars too.

— edit 19/05 ——————————————————————————————-

I think what I'm really trying to ask is:

If the first red car is going straight (more often than not), why can't I enter the road at the same time, wait, & not cut his path?
Very similar to how people wait in the intersection when there isn't an active "turn right arrow" at the traffic light.

Then after he has passed, shouldn't I be able to turn right? and because I'm in the intersection already, the second red car should wait?

Obviously, orange cars have the right of way, but if we remove them from the equation at the moment…
This way, both red and blue lanes of traffic move steadily. It doesn't seem right that blue should just STOP for eternity.

Poll Options

  • 6
    Go first
  • 40
    After the first red car goes. (Because the second red car will have to move up and then Stop?)
  • 362
    After all of the red cars go.
  • 4
    No idea
Automotive

Comments

      • ShMiCk on 20/05/2023 - 07:50
        +1

        Law states you must come to a complete stop, if you can do that in under 1 second, fantastic.

  • Hangryuman on 19/05/2023 - 10:40
    -1

    correct answer is 2: - 'After the first red car goes. (Because the second red car will have to move up and then Stop?)'

    the majority, who clicked on wait for all the red cars, are wrong

    AFAIK the law is that each car must stop at the stop sign and give way to all other traffic

    so assuming the first red car opposite stopped at the stop sign before you - you in blue, having given way to the first red car after it moves off from the stop sign opposite you, should move off from your stop sign immediately after it does - even it if turns right as you are also turning right, you will typically pass each other without conflict

    if you're a wimp you can wait forever but you will probably get a horn up your backside within seconds of letting the second car go through the stop sign opposite you.

    • Eeples on 19/05/2023 - 19:39

      You assume all the red cars are law-abiding and will stop at the stop sign. If one of them rolls through their stop sign and hits you you turning right; blame will be shared.

      Only safe way is to wait. Or turn left and do a U-turn. Or go straight, then do a u-turn and then go left.

      • Hangryuman on 20/05/2023 - 14:51

        'You assume all the red cars are law-abiding and will stop at the stop sign. If one of them rolls through their stop sign and hits you you turning right; blame will be shared. Only safe way is to wait. Or turn left and do a U-turn. Or go straight, then do a u-turn and then go left.'

        wrong - I do not assume - after the first red car moved off opposite, (subject to crossing traffic) I would move my blue car past the stop sign to indicate to the second red car that I wish to assert right-of-way over the second red car.

        If the second red car continued straight without stopping at the stop sign I would wait in the middle of the intersection for them to pass before continuing to turn.

        If the second red car turned right following the first red car, I would simply continue to complete my turn without conflict as our turning curves should be separate and not risk collision.

        All of this is done by paying careful attention to the body language of the vehicles' movements - i.e. not assuming anything about indicators, and waiting out of any collision paths for vehicles to pass.

        e.g. today as pedestrians waiting with about 5 others to cross a very busy two-lane one-way main road without a marked pedestrian crossing, we had to wait for at least 90 seconds - there was no 'gap' created by the traffic flow until it slowed for and starting backing up from the red light 100m past us and one lane stopped, at which point one pedestrian followed by us, stepped out to hint to the slowing car in the lane closest to us to 'please stop down to let us walk across', which they did, as they were already slowing for the red light and stopped vehicles a short distance in front of them.

        as I said - assume nothing - negotiation by observed body language and behaviour - trust but verify.

    • jatyap on 26/05/2023 - 23:16

      Except that you can't (not legally, at least). If you're turning right, you are legally obliged to give way to oncoming traffic turning left or going straight.

  • Broke-Ken on 19/05/2023 - 16:53

    — edit 19/05 ——————————————————————————————-
    I think what I'm really trying to ask is:

    If the first red car is going straight (more often than not), why can't I enter the road at the same time, wait, & not cut his path?
    Very similar to how people wait in the intersection when there isn't an active "turn right arrow" at the traffic light.

    Then after he has passed, shouldn't I be able to turn right? and because I'm in the intersection already, the second red car should wait?

    Obviously, orange cars have the right of way, but if we remove them from the equation at the moment…
    This way, both red and blue lanes of traffic move steadily. It doesn't seem right that blue should just STOP for eternity.

    You're at the stop sign, you can't enter the intersection until it's clear to do so. With the red car currently in the intersection going straight, then it's not clear, you can't enter the intersection and wait, as an orange car can come at any moment, and you will be in their way. Best case is that the orange car sees you and slows down. worse case is that the orange car is not expecting a stationary object on the road and crashes into you and it will be your fault.

    On that road and in the situation you described, yes, you need to wait for an eternity until there are no more orange and red cars that you need to yield to. So best to avoid it.

    There is this route I go down regularly

    Yes it sucks if you come across this situation and need to wait, but if it's a regular route, then plan ahead and find another route where you're not stuck waiting for everyone else.

    As others have suggested, you could perform a P turn (Turn left, do a u turn and become one of the orange cars). Or pick a parallel street which has traffic lights, or anything where you're not "last".

    • Hangryuman on 20/05/2023 - 15:03

      'You're at the stop sign, you can't enter the intersection until it's clear to do so'

      wrong - have you ever driven in or observed real traffic passing through intersections ?

      if you couldn't enter an intersection until it was empty, that would slow traffic flow to the ridiculous.

      Stop sign means give way to all other vehicles Currently crossing your path that would be at risk of collision, not waiting for other vehicles to leave the intersection or start to enter from a stop sign they arrived at after you did.

      If the cross (orange?) traffic is so thick that it means waiting for 2 minutes for a chance, then yes maybe look for a different route where you only make left turns - might be longer distance but less waiting time ?

      In US or UK where traffic is really heavy - maybe even Oz ambulance or emergency vehicle routes ? - they can actually plan ahead for all-left UK or all-right US turn routes.

      While a P turn sounds cute - the busy inner-Sydney main roads I see do not allow easy U-turns - so perhaps more aforethought is recommended if this is a usual route.

      OP - if this is a continuing problem for you, can you post the Google Streetview of this location from your POV ?

  • Eeples on 19/05/2023 - 19:33

    After all the red cars go unless… a red car is nowhere near the stop sign yet.

    If you get tooted from behind for not going just ignore it.

    If a car overtakes you from behind make sure you send the footage to DCA or Scotti.

    • Hangryuman on 20/05/2023 - 15:09
      -2

      nah - that's the wimp option - if you didn't move while many red cars did (they appear to have the identical context/rights as the blue car), I'd be getting outta my car behind to knock your driver's window and say 'WTF Grandpa !? - can you wake up from your nap now !?'

      • sAmiZZle on 20/05/2023 - 18:50
        +2

        Unfortunately you'd have no right to do so based on the actual traffic laws in Victoria. You need to exercise patience mate. As per Vicroads, "Intersections without lights, signs or lines:
        At intersections without traffic lights, signs or road lines:

        you must give way to any vehicle entering or approaching the intersection from your right
        if you are turning right, you must give way to oncoming vehicles going straight through the intersection or turning left (except if they are using a slip lane)."

  • CuteWittleCorgi on 19/05/2023 - 21:23

    They don’t have this problem in the millions of intersections in Asia

    • Yummy on 19/05/2023 - 23:19

      In asia, they only give ways to crossing elephants.

    • Hangryuman on 20/05/2023 - 15:16

      if I recall when I was walking across busy Hanoi roads beside the Hoan Kiem Lake, I saw locals just step out without looking and walk across at a steady pace, and the sea of traffic (mostly scooters) would see, adjust and simply flow around them.

      If a tourist panicked and stopped mid-way, that would upset the traffic which would then have to suddenly brake to avoid you as they'd been expecting you to continue moving.

      That said - when I was there (riding rented bicycles and scooters) I also read that Vietnam had the highest rate of deaths in traffic - perhaps because people didn't look - so let's say not looking is not recommended.

  • fredk1000 on 19/05/2023 - 23:07

    What happens if I have a white car?

    • Yummy on 19/05/2023 - 23:22

      You vote "No idea".

  • hasher22 on 19/05/2023 - 23:30
    +1

    Based on the picture, all red cars must go.

    That's why I hate those kind of intersections cause people really don't know what to do and I've turned right and people given me way and im like… no you go first.

    But kind of a diff story if both cars are going right. But in general, if you're turning right, let all cars through, unless both cars are going right and there's space(?)

  • iSamurai on 20/05/2023 - 00:21
    +1

    The answer is that it depends.

    1. The orange cars have the right of way because it's a main road.
    2. Once all of them are gone, then, if the red car is going straight or left, then it has the right of way. You need to see where the next red car is going and repeat this step.
    3. If the red car is going right, which means both you and the red car are crossing to the far side of the road, then both you and the red car can go at the same time.

    This was in my exam and I still remember this ;)

    See P88, Giving way when there are multiple vehicles. Although the diagram is an unmarked intersection, the logic is the same. https://www.publications.qld.gov.au/ckan-publications-attach…

    • Eeples on 20/05/2023 - 01:32

      Yeah. I think I’ve changed my mind.

      I think if both you and the red car are stopped and then the red car starts to turn right (not just indicating right) then you are okay to turn right if no orange cars.

      Otherwise wait for the red cars going straight or turning left.

    • Euphemistic on 20/05/2023 - 06:22

      Except there is no ‘right of way’ in traffic law. The concept is ‘giving way’.

      • Hangryuman on 20/05/2023 - 15:20

        when I first got my licence last century right of way referred to anything coming from your right was supposed to give way to you

        I believe that was changed since to be more about priority roads - so turning from a dinky side road you can't assume a right to just turn onto a high-speed main road with a lot of traffic coming from your right, etc.

        • Euphemistic on 20/05/2023 - 16:42

          to anything coming from your right was supposed to give way to you

          Think you got that backwards. It was give way to your right. As above it’s still a thing at otherwise uncontrolled intersections. But too many people apply it to roundabouts where it’s not a rule.

  • sAmiZZle on 20/05/2023 - 18:40

    This is basic 101 driving mate. You have to give way to oncoming vehicles. This follows the same principle as turning right at a traffic light intersection that has no green arrow. You make sure there are no orange cars, then you have to make sure there are no red cars going straight (they are the oncoming vehicles you have to give way to)

    • Euphemistic on 20/05/2023 - 19:57
      +1

      If there are no orange cars, you (blue) are stopped and the red car has not reached the stop line and has not yet stopped you can turn right. The red car needs to stop then give way. If you are already in the intersection before they’ve stopped, they have to give way to you.

      Problem with this is if the red car doesn’t stop. if they proceed through without stopping they are in the wrong, but I’d rather not have a crash.

      • sAmiZZle on 21/05/2023 - 00:00

        Yeah pretty much. You end up having to yield to red anyhow for the sake of safety and avoiding drama. The thing about being on the road is that it isn't always about who's in the right, it's about getting home safe and alive (whether that be by avoiding an accident or road rage). Too often people focus too much on being "in the right". Classic example is walking when the green man is on without looking first. That's a good way to die fast. But hey, at least they were in the right,… Right ;)?

  • factor on 20/05/2023 - 20:31
    +1

    You only have to stop for real stop signs. A 6-sided stop sign is fake-news and you should ignore it.

    • The Value on 27/05/2023 - 18:31

      6 sides
      6 letters if you don't count the extra 2
      6 is a number

      666 = devil

  • lost in transit on 21/05/2023 - 19:09

    You’ll fit right in with the other 50% of Melburnian drivers….😀

  • Stripes on 27/05/2023 - 15:59

    Should be a roundabout..

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