Howdy Folks! 😃
TLDR;
With the growing trend of EV’s I also decided to take the plunge and join the band wagon (Thanks OzBargain) and my first EV is around the corner. In preparation of that, I have been researching home charging equipments, but I am still confused if I should get home charger installed or just the mobile charger with standard 220V pin.
Thought of starting this thread to get some opinion in our community from previous owners on their experiences. Here are some of my thoughts/ questions:
1. How frequently do you charge? Daily or once a week? Based on my driving pattern, I currently only fill up petrol once a week, shouldn’t that be same with charging my EV?
2. How does weekly v/s daily charge impact the battery life? If I trickle charge daily, what does it mean to the charging cycles? In short, will it be better to charge weekly if daily is not required - eg. 20-30km local driving daily?
3. And now hence, does it make sense to invest in the wall charger at home? I understand the wall charger gives higher speeds of charging etc. but for low kms usage daily, would just the mobile charger daily suffice or do we really need a wall charger? I understand its convenience, and the equipment cost is also not too different. But it really comes down to installation cost. I am trying to get some quotes and they have come back really high so far - >$1500.
4. Finally, any recommendations for reasonable wall charger installers in Sydney that some of us might have used?
Apologies for the long post and thanks for reading!
Look forward to some suggestions.
Cheers
EV Home Charger - Thoughts and Installer Recommendations in Sydney
Comments
Legend - Thanks!
I tried joining the FB group but was rejected as I don’t have my vehicle yet. It’s apparently only for owners? Or May be I got a wrong group.
Classic Tesla fanboi Facebook page conditions.
instead of proof of ID, you need to take a selfie with your Tesla
or just the mobile charger with standard 220V pin.
why not see how you go with slow boring standard outlet charging once you get the car (ignoring the first couple of weeks where you might drive it more due to new car exctiement) before dropping >$1.5k for faster home charging.
its not like they are going to get massively cheaper or more expensive over the short term
That’s a great suggestion - also note 1.5k is just installation cost + the unit is $750 - so it’s over 2k v/s the cable is $550 or also found some around $400, not branded but local stores
This ^ but check that the wiring to the GPO is not dodgy and can sustain 10a/15a continuously without burning your house down :-)
Definitely - what’s the way to check that before the house burns down? I am in a fairly new build home - 5 years old, 3-phase - not sure if any of that matters, but would certainly like to know if there is a way to check and confirm that my circuit can take the load.
Look if it is a new house, it is probably ok. And if you stick to the standard 10a/15a socket, it should be up to spec already.
@randombrick: Thanks - so something like this should be fine
https://www.amazon.com.au/Portable-Adjustable-Electric-Charg…
Do you have three phase at home? If not - wall EVSE (sorry being pedantic) is certainly convenient but I didn't see any obvious charging speed improvements with it. With single phase, a 32amp socket with a 32a tail for a Tesla UMC will give you the same charging speed (7kw) as the wall charger.
With 3-phase, a EVSE can go higher and probably only capped by the car's inbuilt charger.
Yes - I have 3 phase. But I am also in a double storey home. So I guess the cost to install is higher to run from the main board to the garage.
I read about the 32 amp socket - does that not need additional circuit from main board? Or can an electrician pull it off a standard 220V outlet in short, would installing a 32 amp socket be significantly cheaper?32a will need new wiring plus new breaker, etc. at the switch board. The installation costs are probably not much different between a wall evse and a 32a socket.
Another important question was - does your car come with a granny charger? If not, the cost of a wall evse will be similar to getting a mobile connector + tails, etc.
Good point - my sales agent said they stopped giving the charging cables with the wires from April 2023. So I will have to buy my own cables. The cost of cables and the wall equipment is not too different, but I would buy the mobile cable only if I can plug into my existing socket. If both of them need similar installs anyways, then I guess the decision of the wall charger will be easier.
@Dealking: The standard cables that you buy aftermarket will have at least 10a plugs (which can just plug into your regular sockets) or 15a (if you have 15a socket).
The charging will be slower but it might cover your use.
If the charging cables came with this car, the decision is simple - try it out before making changes. If not, then you need to weigh the costs vs benefit of mobile connector vs a wall evse.
If you got solar how much you got? 6.6kw will get you around 40kwh a day but that is if you are plugged in 7am - 6pm (longer during winter). Otherwise you want to charge off peak (check your energy plan)
Wall plug only get you a few kwh an hour (might be faster if you get a dedicated circuit). Also are you on 3 phase?
If you can charge say 3-7kwh per hour between 11pm - 6am (off peak is it enough for the day and over a week get your full for the weekend?) If so might not be worth the investment.
Yes - I have 3 phase and solar as well - infact I recently got solar mainly with this EV in mind. I got a 10 KW system which is averaging at over 30 KWH a day in the last month or so that I have had it. So I can definitely spare 3-7 KWH all day if needed.
Sorry - also, did I read it right that a 6.6 KW system should generate 40KWH a day? If yes, then looks like my 13.3 KW (10KW inverter) system is definitely not generating enough and I might need to check with my installer30 KWH a day in the last month or so that I have had it
Don't forget it is also winter and where I am it has been cloudy (I think I am on net 13kwh - 20kwh a day). Also depends on orientation of your panels.
Yes - hope my solar is alright 😃
I got 9 panels on east and 23 on west - total 32 panels x 415V.
I dont have an EV.
however, i am led to believe that with lithium batteries:
- 0% is bad
- 100% is bad
- holding 100% on hot day for a week while the car sits in the garage unused and you're in a holiday to Bali - is terrible
- slow charging is better
- deep depths of discharge are bad (60% to 44% five times a week is better than say 90% to 10% once a week)so when my time comes for an EV I will have to overprovision km's. I must only consider 70% of the kms the car says it can do as useful.
Thanks for chiming in ! Good thoughts here - definitely things to consider.
LFP batteries, like what the standard range Tesla has and Chinese cars are very forgiving. No problems charging to 100%.
Keep in mind that Tesla's recommendation to charge to 100% with LFPs is mainly to allow the BMS to calibrate correctly and show correct SoC. LFPs may be forgiving but I still wouldn't leave them at 100% all the time.
1a: Depends. About once a week. Only do about 200km/week on average. (work commuting mostly).
1b: How many km are you doing a week? How big is your EV's battery? Treat an EV like a smart phone. Plug it in when you get home every few days, unplug in the morning, go to work.2a: Depends, what car is it? What battery tech does it use? LiIo? LFP? Lead Acid?
2b: Charging cycles are worked out over entire full charge and discharge cycles. A partial charge is only a partial cycle. AC charging really isnt an issue like constant DC fast charging. Slower and short charging is better than fast, long charges (*giggity*)
2c: Again, depends on usage. You are over thinking it. If you did 20km today and only plan on 20km tomorrow, just charge up every few days. If you did 150km today and plan on 150+km tomorrow, charge that night.3a: Meh, neither here nor there. What I have found is, you dont need a 22kW charger at home, a single phase 7kW charger is probably good enough for most. The other/cheaper option would be to just get a 15a plug installed and a 15a portable charger if you only do up to 100km/day. Wall charger if you need the faster charging (ie: doing 200km+ trips every day OR have multiple EV's in the household stable.
3b: Yes, 32a wiring, especially 3 phase, 22kW installs are going to be more expensive than a 15a outlet.4: Any reputable electrician. They dont have to be EV specific installers, just good quality electricians.
Thanks!
1a. Yes, mostly commuting to work, pick up drop off kids to school/ classes etc. (basically unpaid Uber jobs 🤣)
1b. I average about 250 kms a week, sometimes less sometimes more. I also have to consider that this was with only one car. I will still have my ICE car when the new one comes so the kms per week will be distributed, but for discussion let’s leave it at 200 kms a week.
2a. LFP
3a. What’s this 15a portable charger option? Will that need a RCD at main board etc? I guess that’s the main cost - to run a new circuit and RCD at the main board. But I hear you, sounds like the wall charger unit might be an overkill in my case.1a&b: Ok, 200~250km/week, I would just chuck it on once or twice a week, Wednesday and Sunday night, off peak. If you have solar, chuck it on during the day if you are at home. A 10a charger should give you back around 100km overnight.
Banking on your EV using about 16kW/100km and a 10a charger with losses is about 1.6 to 1.8kW/h charge rate, 10 hours on granny charger, about 100km range. 200km/week, just top up mid week and again on Sunday.
If you really want a wall charger, go with a 32a, single phase 7kW charger, 10h overnight is enough to charge most average EV batteries (50~70kW size) so you would only need to charge once a week with average use. 22kW chargers are overkill for home and even more overkill if your car only supports 7kW (ie: BYD Atto 3) or 11kW (MG ZS/Tesla Model 3) rates.
2a: LFP is fine, it doesn't mind being charged to 100% and is actually recommended to do at least once a week, with a full drain (to under 10%) and back to full at least once every 6 months. LFP batteries are much more forgiving than LiIo batteries.
3a: a 15a portable is the same as a 10a portable (aka: granny charger), except it is about 1.5 times the charging speed. 2.4kW vs 3.6kW. And yes, it will require wiring if your garage doesn't already have a 15a plug already and that 15a plug will require a new breaker on your main power board.
I say to people though (from my over-engineering experience) if they are going to run a 15a plug to a garage, may as well run a 32a plug out there so if at a later date you decide you do need faster charging, the cabling and plug is already there for it. You can always plug a 15a device into a 32a outlet without much of an issue (just requires an adaptor), but you cant plug a 32a device into a 15a outlet without it tripping fuses.
Get your electrician you quote both. 15a and 32a single phase. 32a 3 phase is really expensive and isnt really required as there are not many cars that support 22kW anyway and 7kW, like I said above, will give most EV's on the market a 0%~100% charge overnight, and 7kW will certainly fill 200~300km worth of use in a overnight charging session. (7kW for an average EV is about 40km distance per each hour of charge.)
Point #4 - if you have a fave sparky, call them first. Rather than a "EV Installer" - they will charge more for the exact same work :-)
Yes - my sparky is coming this afternoon to quote me. Let’s see what he says.
Perhaps have a read of this if you're thinking of charging via your existing socket.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/ev-charging-power-outlet…
Thanks - that was a really good read! Cheers
Hmmm that is not how TLDR works
Tesla manual recommends plugging car in whenever you can. Personally I only plug in when solar is generating and I only charge with solar. You will be charging more often than you fill a car up with petrol because it’s silly to let the battery sit at low capacity for no good reason. Get out of the mindset of the old ways. Charging is easy. Going to a servo is a pain.
Charging cycles do not matter whether you charge from full or half full. The car BMS manages the charges appropriately. It’s bad however to regularly run batteries down too low. Don’t overthink it.
Wall charger is fantastic if you want to use solar generation or otherwise do long trips on 2 consecutive days. Otherwise granny charger will probably do for you. $1500 is probably not too far off the mark depending upon how much work is required & if they’re running 32 amp or three phase / etc.
Join a NSW Tesla FB group and ask for recommendations there.