Universal Basic Income (UBI) Will Soon Be Needed

Automation and AI is moving at breakneck speed. Within a few years, we will see lots of jobs disapear. Already there are McDonalds being trailed with no staff. There are driverless cabs, trucks and buses in operation. Factory jobs are increasingly being replaced by robots. During Covid we saw changes to retail, education and business that are still having effects. Retailers now no longer need huge stores and staff, Universities can offer on-line education in many areas without needed huge investments in land and staff, and traditional books are replaced with online versions. Businesses can have staff work from home, or even replace them with AI, and no longer need huge inner city offices. All of these changes have flow on effects, like cafes that now have less customers, bookstores that arent needed etc. So there will be a lot less jobs, and more people out of work.

But this will be so massive, that it will affect business. If there are less people with money to spend, this will impact business, who will then need to cut back, reduce staff etc. And governments will need to spend more on welfare, while recieving less taxes from income and purchases. It could be the start of a downward spiral that could destroy economies worldwide.

So what is the answer?

A Universal Basic Income (UBI). This is a social welfare payment that is made to every working age person. It is not income tested, and applies to every person in the nation. It has to be high enough for people to live and also have money left to spend. It has been trailed in some nations, and it works.

So why everyone?

Firstly, there will be no need for Centrelink. If everyone gets a payment, then this can be closed. People can decide to keep working full time, and have more money, cut back to part time, or not work at all. It gives people back a life. Humans did not always work. We work to enable ourselves to live. If we can work less, we can have time to persue other interests, like hobbies, gardening, education spending time with families etc. These can change over a lifetime, so people can decide when to work more and when to cut back. This will free up more casual and part time jobs. And yes, some people will decide that they want to sit around all day and watch TV. Thats fine. Its a choice.
Business will keep operating and have customers. So the economy keeps working.

How will we afford it? Aside from savings by not needing Centrelink etc, we only need to revise the way we tax. At present the largest businesses pay no tax, because they send it offshore. The only tax collected is from GST, which is a value added tax. One idea might be to instead tax on turnover, which could be a very small rate on top of the GST, or replace the GST. Another option might be to put a base rate on products, for example 10% on all mining products etc, even those exported. Income tax could be removed, and businesses could reduce wages paid (without a reduction to the worker of the Nett ammount) as incentives etc. There are plenty of options and governments have already started looking at it.

The biggest obstacle will be the people themselves. There will be a group who will not want it just because it will mean that some people might decide to do nothing. This envy and jealousy will be a major reason for them to oppose it. It will bring about a better distribution of wealth, and a happier society, but some people would rather see others live in poverty. This is real, and is the reason why we still have a war on drugs. Our governmen is aware of research and trials in other nations where all drugs were legalised, as long as they were obtained through doctors. Initially drug use went up, then dropped massively. Drug deaths dropped, because people were seeing doctors, and drugs came from pharmacies so were safer. But the best part was that drug related crime disappeared, so much that prisons strted to empty. So better all round. But we wont see it here in a hurry, because if a party introduces this today, people would oppose it and would vote them out. The majority of people want others to suffer and be punished for what they dont agree with. Envy and jealousy. So this require governments to educate people over time.

Some people have estimated that we will hit a crisis point in 10 years. Others say that the recent advancements in AI might make it 5.
What do you think?

Comments

      • -1

        It's universal basic income. You all get the same. No differentiation.

        • +1

          exactly, So you are basically going to make millions currently on welfare and struggling even worse off.

          • -1

            @gromit: Yes, by not wasting money on administrative fees you will save millions that can be spent on the people.
            If that still isn't enough, they can always get a job.

            • @hailingstars: So basically all you are after is a selfish cash grab. Free cash without caring about disabled, single mothers or anyone else. As long as you get your screw everyone else.

      • and you have AI to take care of all of this administration.

    • The cost of an old person in end of life care is well over $100k a year. A single parent 3 kids needs far more than me (unless all the kids collect it too, otherwise popping out kids could be a full time job), someone with a good salary and no kids. NDIS costs about $50k per year for everyone on it. Everyone cannot be paid the same amount.

      If you pay it to everyone you've suddenly got the overhead of paying it to everyone as well, making sure they're registered and accounts are functioning properly. The level of fraud with a UBI would be absolutely massive - people would try put off saying their loved ones are dead, every fake person you can get created now collects UBI, it doesn't reduce administration you've just now turned Centrelink into having to deal with every single person in Australia rather than just those in need.

      If we ever put in UBI the argument against it would be we could reduce administration by just paying the amounts people need to those who need it. Because in theory, that's way simpler.

      • -1

        The level of fraud with a UBI would be absolutely massive - people would try put off saying their loved ones are dead, every fake person you can get created now collects UBI

        This is a really poor argument. The level of fraud would obviously be less because a) the amount is less than the other payments. b) your only qualification is to be a live citizen, whereas existing payments require other conditions opening them up to more fraud. You don't get to 'put off' saying your loved ones are dead. Unless you're living with their body they will get a death certificate, the enforcement required to simply match up birth and death certificates is a fraction of what the other systems will (many still) require.

        Centrelink into having to deal with every single person in Australia rather than just those in need.

        You wouldn't bother doing it via Centrelink, you'd do it via the ATO the same way they did JobKeeper to avoid exactly that problem. Yes, this requires a lot of computerization to cross check these things, but you'll never guess which organization is extremely well setup to do just that.

        You're absolutely right though, it can't replace the NDIS and high care aged care. It's worth noting that lots of people don't make it into high care end of life care though, and the proportion is actually decreasing. You might also find that extra support allows a lot of people to be given more at home care from extended family.

        • Where's the ubi money coming from? You still haven't answered this.

  • +1

    wait another 20-30 years until all the boomers die then implement these sort of things. Too many boomers nowadays stuck with old school mentality. Technology will cause a lot of disruptions, disruptions boomers have never experienced.

    • +2

      In 30 years you're going to be labelled the (equivalent of) boomer, and some young person is going to say exactly what you said about your way of thinking.

      • oh crap you're right!

    • Too many boomers nowadays stuck with old school mentality. Technology will cause a lot of disruptions, disruptions boomers have never experienced.

      Who do you think created the technology?

    • -1

      I’m not in favour for UBI.

      -Gen Y

  • An alternative might be to limit ownership of automation such that the companies have to come to individuals to rent out their automation rights (AI, factory automation etc.) I can't see corporate interests ever allowing that unfortunately.

  • +1

    I just want my Chris Pratt sex robot already. Come on Elon!

  • +1

    Plenty of aged carers needed.

  • AI won't be helping with jobs like aged care, which is an increasing industry.
    Why pay people to do nothing when that money should be funding wages of jobs which need to be filled?

    • We need aged carers today. But we dont need millions of them. And not everyone can cope with handling adult shit and piss, showering people etc. When it comes to who funds jobs, employers do. Thats called a wage.

    • 2020 census showed 277,671 aged care workers, only about 75% of those in actual front line roles. Sure, the number in the front line might double, but the number not in the front line will probably decrease. AI can still help however, though more likely in improving quality of care rather than decreasing front line workers. It's not really a huge chunk of the workforce, even if it and nursing are one of the very last roles to vanish completely.

  • Quality of life improvements would be significant

    • -1

      For a small percentage of the population maybe.

  • UBI is exactly why we're in such a malaise. People need incentive to work, or they'll be totally unproductive.

    Incentives to work, on the other hand, is a totally different discussion. I don't blame people not wanting to grind themselves to death to barely make rent. But that's a different discussion.

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