Is The Neighbour Required to Pay for This Part of The Fence?

notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 13:52
Last edited 04/05/2023 - 16:50

When my house was built the estate built the fence around the property but only till the front of the actual building (green line). I now want to extend it all the way to the footpath. The estate builder owns the neighbouring land. They say they are not required to contribute anything from their side. They said "This is not a preference for them and not mandatory requirement". Is this correct? I am in Victoria. I cant find anything related to part building of a fence on this site https://www.justice.vic.gov.au/fencing-law-in-victoria

To clarify the length of that gap where the new fence will be is 13 m.

Edit: I know I can pay for it myself. What I want to find out is whether they are legally required to pay their part as it is not clear from the Fences act. A lot of people here are saying that the extension of the fence is optional but no one can point to where it says how much of a fence is considered mandatory and how much is optional.

Obligatory MS paint drawing

Home & Garden

Comments

  • AustriaBargain on 04/05/2023 - 14:01
    +5

    Plenty of houses don't have a fence from the house to footpath. If it were mandatory you'd think this wouldn't be the case.

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 14:04
      -7

      What is the definition of mandatory?

      • AustriaBargain on 04/05/2023 - 14:05
        +11

        Required by law or mandate.

          • coffeeinmyveins on 04/05/2023 - 14:35
            +40

            @notfrodo:

            From that point of view, having a fence altogether is optional. It is not required by law.

            I think you know what the answer is but you don't want to hear it because you want your neighbour to pay for your desire to have an un-necessary fence.

            If the law says that a fence isn't required from the boundary of the property to the council footpath then you can't force a neighbour to pay for anything.

            • pharkurnell on 04/05/2023 - 15:03
              +6

              @coffeeinmyveins: We have a winner

              • whiskeyjack89 on 06/05/2023 - 12:14

                @notfrodo: It doesn't mention it, so its up in the air, so the neighbour can do what they want and so can you.

            • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 15:28
              -3

              @coffeeinmyveins: Boundary of the property means the boundary of the house or land? I own the land all the way to the footpath.

              • ripesashimi on 05/05/2023 - 16:44
                +6

                @notfrodo: You should sue them. You win for sure. Source: trust me.

              • coffeeinmyveins on 06/05/2023 - 17:58

                @notfrodo: We aren't your property conveyancers or lawyers. Seriously, you've bought one of the most expensive things of your life you can't even figure out how to GOOGLE to find the answer to fence laws?

    • Ugly on 04/05/2023 - 18:50
      +1

      The fencing act uses the term “sufficient diving fence”

      “The Fences Amendment Act clarifies that owners must contribute in equal proportions to a ‘sufficient dividing fence’ and sets out a number of factors to be considered in determining what is a sufficient dividing fence. These factors include: the existing dividing fence, if any; the purposes for which the owners use the adjoining lands or intend for them to be used; reasonable privacy concerns; the types of dividing fences used in the local area; and other factors.”

      So, if most of your neighbours have a fence all the way to the property boundary, you could maybe argue that the existing fence is not “sufficient”?

      If you have kids or pets, you can also claim that the fence is not sufficient to divide the properties.

      • Hangryuman on 06/05/2023 - 15:34

        I see you dived right in there

        I'm guessing the neighbour could easily argue that the current fence is 'sufficient' and no need for more.

    • HeWhoKnows on 05/05/2023 - 12:21
      -6

      The neighbour is 100% Correct !!!

      If OP wants the fence extension then OP must pay for it.

      In fact you cannot force any neigbour to contribute to a fence - new or replacement
      Its all done on good faith and nothing more.
      Unless the fence is damaged by the neighour but thats a different story

      But if the neigbour objects to the fence extension then what then?????

  • Wiadro on 04/05/2023 - 14:10
    +12

    The fence is only to the start of the building, if you want it longer you should be the one to pay for it.

  • MS Paint on 04/05/2023 - 14:22

    What have surrounding properties in the estate done?

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 15:21

      They have it all the way to the front.

      • mikekiwimike on 05/05/2023 - 08:10

        I feel that this might be a bit “inaccurate”, if your neighbours all have fences to the front then it’s job done and you have nothing to pay.

      • GG57 on 05/05/2023 - 10:24

        The other side of your property doesn't

        • notfrodo on 05/05/2023 - 20:28

          Because there is no house there yet

  • Nugs on 04/05/2023 - 14:26
    +15

    " I now want to extend it all the way to the footpath. "
    I hope it is see through or enjoy years of near misses with pedestrians, cyclists and scooters etc
    .

  • starspawn on 04/05/2023 - 14:28
    +1

    Normally you would approach your neighbour to discuss this.

    I imagine they won't be obligated to pay anything towards it

  • altomic on 04/05/2023 - 14:30
    +4

    the issue of whether a fence is required would be a local council requirement.

    I'd assume that if the builder hadn't installed a fence to the footpath because it is not required as per local planning (and if a builder can get out of doing something, and therefore save on time, effort and $$$, then they won't do it)

    call your council and ask if a fence is required from house to footpath

    the FENCES ACT 1968 (Vic) doesn't provide any real guidance. it does suggest that if you seek to extend, change, modify a fence then you should obtain agreement from the owner of the adjoining property.

    • HeWhoKnows on 05/05/2023 - 12:24

      "the FENCES ACT 1968 (Vic) doesn't provide any real guidance. it does suggest that if you seek to extend, change, modify a fence then you should obtain agreement from the owner of the adjoining property."

      Exactly
      And no mention of who is liable to pay/contribute

  • Stewardo on 04/05/2023 - 14:41

    Do you own to the footpath? Wouldn’t your block be set back from that? The fence on the front is optional and would still have to meet all local council requirements. The required size for front fences is normally much lower 1.2-1.5m and doesn’t really add much security or privacy.
    Anything bigger that that you would normally need a development application. This varies council to council.

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 15:23
      -1

      Why do I have to own the footpath? There are a dozen houses around me that have the fence all the way to the front.

      • Stewardo on 04/05/2023 - 21:43

        “Own to the footpath”
        Not the footpath itself, normally the fence beyond the front of the house must be 1.2 or lower, and stop where the nature strip starts, which is normally .5mtr+ before the footpath.

  • Numpty21 on 04/05/2023 - 14:52
    +1

    'I now want to extend it all the way to the footpath'

    As you want the fence you will need to pay for it but as it's an adjoining fence you will need their approval.

  • jjjaar on 04/05/2023 - 14:55

    That fence is not mandatory. You can choose to extend it, but you are not required to, and neither are they.

    However, in regards to who pays, in addition to the link you shared:

    If you are a property owner, you and your neighbour have equal responsibility for the dividing fence between your properties.

    https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/fences-and-trees#

    At the end of the day though, you can go to court and force them to pay, or you can just suck it up and pay for it yourself. You have to live next to them. What’s more important?

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 15:26
      -8

      The builder owns the property. I don't really care about my relationship with them as they have already screwed us over the build.

      • jjjaar on 04/05/2023 - 16:42
        +1

        Well, then

        If you and your neighbour can’t agree, you can contact the Dispute Settlement Centre of Victoria for advice and a range of free and confidential dispute resolution services.

      • onetwothreefour on 04/05/2023 - 16:50

        The builder owns the property.

        Wait for them to finish building it then speak to the new neighbours?

        • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 16:51

          The builder will own the house. It is some sort of build to rent sort of thing.

  • Ozbar Gain on 04/05/2023 - 14:58
    +4

    Look mate if its such a big issue for you to come online and post about it, I'll pay my half 😡
    V

    • BLAIL on 04/05/2023 - 15:11
      +3

      don't

  • SBOB on 04/05/2023 - 15:09
    +1

    I now want to

    then pay for it. simple.
    the fence would be cheaper (for that short a length) than the hassle of disputing it

  • Brick Tamland on 04/05/2023 - 15:10
    +1

    Generally, this extra bit of fencing is optional. You can ask for neighbour to pay half but they're not obligated.

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 15:25

      We are talking about a 13 m gap.

      • Brick Tamland on 04/05/2023 - 15:28
        +1

        Righto, would this be the front fence?

        If its a front fence then yeah its just your own landscaping costs really.

        • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 15:29

          It runs along the side of the house

  • GG57 on 04/05/2023 - 15:35

    Do you intend to do the same to the fence on the other side of your property?

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 16:00

      Yes. Owned by the builder again. Same issue

      • GG57 on 04/05/2023 - 16:33
        +1

        I don't see it as an "issue".
        I don't like your chances of getting your neighbour's agreement; just do it yourself if you want it (but you probably need to inform them of your intentions).

  • Traveller107 on 04/05/2023 - 15:37

    Where is the front boundry of your block? Does you block run up to the footpath or is there a nature strip/verge in between the house and footpath?. You need to check how far your land on the official title extends to. You have every right to have a fence up to the front boundary and have your neighbour contribute. But if that front portion between the dwelling and footpath is council owned verge etc then you cant have a fence there. Also i think some places dont allow for tall fences toward the front of the property. You need to check your lot plan for exact boundary and consult council regarding any restrictions.

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 15:59

      The footpath is where my property ends. There is no nature strip there because of the way our block is divided. We are not intending to have a tall fence either - 1.5m

      • Traveller107 on 04/05/2023 - 17:39

        If it's your land and not councils then absolutely. The neighbours are obligated to share the cost. We extended ours at our previous property and shared the cost with neighbours. On our current street most houses already have it.

      • Almost Banned on 04/05/2023 - 18:30
        +3

        1.5m is quite high for a dividing fence in front of the building envelope and would impact on sight-lines for cars entering and leaving driveways.
        Normally the fences in the front part of properties are lower.

        • Traveller107 on 04/05/2023 - 23:47
          -2

          Brisbane is full of 1.8 high fences including the absolute front fence with electric gates. They're permitted by council.
          Read my first comment where i recommended op to check with local council regarding any such height restriction as some do impose them but not all. You just repeated what i wrote and negged me unnecessarily :s

  • Porker on 04/05/2023 - 16:08

    Typically, as I understand, it's shared cost for standard fences and extra items is negotiated or paid for by the party requesting the extra.

    It's not typical for the boundary fence to not extend the length of the boundary between properties, such that I do think it's reasonable to request that the entirety of the boundary is fenced. This is on assumption that each property title includes the area adjacent to the un-fenced section.

    However, please note, the only way you can recover costs for the fence, again on assumption that it's standard item, is for you to seek costs within the Magistrates Court.

    • dtc on 04/05/2023 - 22:09
      +1

      Looking at my street there isn’t a single house that has a high fence running along the side of the property to the footpath. Some people have waist high fences and some have hedges or small hills with bushes, but no 1.5 or 1.8m fences. Could be a council thing but it’s definitely not typical in my part of the world (NSW south coast)

  • junet on 04/05/2023 - 16:26
    +1

    One side of my place didn't have a front side fence and the other side did. When the neighbour wanted to get a new side fence I asked for the front to be included with the company he quoted with and he said speak to them on the day. So he obviously didn't want it or didn't want to pay for it.

    I ended up emailing the company direct & cc'ed him requesting the quote for an extra few metres. Somehow we agreed and I paid half. Now i barely have to see him and his knee height grass. It is awesome.

    I don't know if it's mandatory or not, it seems stupid not to have one to establish the boundary line between properties & extra privacy.

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 16:35

      Exactly my point.

  • ifyareckon on 04/05/2023 - 16:32
    +1

    In our estate the builder included this as a "bonus". In later stages of the subdivision when they were trying to claw every last cent out of buyers, this wasn't included and subsequently most properties don't have it. Those that do, it was either on the person who wanted it to pay or by mutual agreement.

    • notfrodo on 04/05/2023 - 17:13

      Probably what happened with us too. The initial stages all have fences all the way to the front.

  • brendanm on 04/05/2023 - 17:13
    -5

    Not another "op is a deliberately obtuse moron" episode.

  • Godric on 04/05/2023 - 17:16

    I had this in my mind other week, what if you want that bit of fence done, but the neighbor doesn't, but you pay for it completely, can they cook up a fuss about that?

  • WreckTangle on 04/05/2023 - 17:28

    Depends also if you own that land, or if its council land to the footpath.

  • JimmyF on 04/05/2023 - 17:35
    -6

    I now want to extend it all the way to the footpath.

    You don't own the nature strip land, you can't build a fence in the nature strip either.

    Looking at your diagram, the fence stops at the end of your land, the land you are wanting to extend into, is the councils, not yours.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 04/05/2023 - 18:52

    When I next tell someone that stupid ass fencing disputes are surprisingly one of the most prevalent matters in VCAT, and they don't immediately believe me, I'll point them to this thread as proof.

  • seannami on 04/05/2023 - 19:23
    +3

    13m is a long way from the footpath! I just had a fence replaced in Vic and one of the potential contributors (my neighbor but we don't share a fence, we were just going to do the whole row at once and we share a mutual back neighbor), so I've done a bit of reading on this lately. You would send an official fencing notice to the owner of the next house/land (so the builder) with costings, proposal etc. If they don't response in writing on the notice in 30 days you can just do it and bill them (and take them to court for the dosh). If they refuse, they have to provide a valid and reasonable reason for the refusal to not undertake the fencing. The Fences act then says "If an adjoining owner responds to a notifying owner within 30 days of a fencing notice being given, but, after that 30 days, the owners have not agreed about any one or more of the matters specified in the notice, either owner may seek an order under section 30C by
    filing a complaint in the Magistrates' Court"

    I doubt the magistrate will say no since it's reasonable to want a indicative dividing fence (almost all fences are to some extend to the footpath where I am, whether new build or the house has been here since the 70s). Once you get to official fencing notice, they might agree just to avoid a kerfuffle.

    • ass3ts on 06/05/2023 - 00:01

      Last time I wanted to replace an older fence of a property, the only thing I asked from the neighbour was their permission to get it done. I don't see how it's fair to suddenly bill your neighbour when you're the only one who wants to replace the fence. Showing a bit of respect often goes a long way.

      • seannami on 06/05/2023 - 08:35

        We didn't end up going through with the last little bit (back neighbors are negotiating), everyone else was chomping at the bit to get the thing done- it was waist high and falling down :p Actually felt odd having a full fence up, used to feel like one big shared back yard.

        In our case the fence was so badly damaged we really had no choice, and there is provision for urgent repairs (even if they have been urgent for seemingly a decade).

  • Rako on 04/05/2023 - 20:34
    +1

    By paying for it yourself means you can choose the fencer.

  • mattmel96 on 05/05/2023 - 08:21
    +3

    I would double check your land purchase agreement. When we built (NSW) there was a covenant that prohibited fences from extending past the front facade of the house, unless the adjoining property is on a corner block.

  • saltypete on 05/05/2023 - 08:23
    +3

    Perhaps wait.
    The next door blocks will eventually be sold and the owners may want this as well. You can then share costs.
    But also consider that while the builder won’t pay - they also have no objection to you adding the fence. New owners may have different preferences/priorities.

  • nswnotill on 05/05/2023 - 10:17

    Maybe check on Ebay, Facebook or Gumtree for some S/H roll top weldmesh fencing if all else fails

  • joker0701 on 05/05/2023 - 10:39
    +2

    Judging by the fact its the 'estate builder' im sure he has built to the minimum requirement.

    If you're wanting to build to the footpath, just build to the footpath. Assuming the owner has done the correct research, he has built to what is likely required by law.

  • Mythreesons on 05/05/2023 - 11:47

    No they are not required to pay anything. If it was the existing fence and was damaged, they would be required to pay half (after three quotes were provided and for a basic fence).You are addling the fence because you want the area fenced, it’s not required to be fenced and was not fenced previously, so you alone are going to have to pay for the fence that you want to put in your front yard.
    We have just replaced our fence and paid for it all because we wanted a new fence and there was nothing wrong with existing fence (other than the dogs barking constantly whenever we went outside and they could see us, which is why we wanted it replaced).

  • kallico on 05/05/2023 - 12:06
    +3

    Simple answer NO. You want it you pay

  • Odin on 05/05/2023 - 14:56
    +2

    I don't understand everyone's objections.

    It's ultimately a boundary fence bounding 2 properties, therefore dividing fence act applies and neighbour pays half.

    • dbell on 05/05/2023 - 16:03

      It's an addition to the existing fence line, so the neighbour does not pay half, the onus of cost is onto OP.

      • chriskq on 05/05/2023 - 19:06
        +2

        existing fence line that does not go to the boundary is key though dont you think?

      • Odin on 05/05/2023 - 22:01
        +1

        where does it say anything about it being "existing"?

  • Poor Ass on 05/05/2023 - 15:21
    +3

    Existing fence mandatory

    Non existing fence optional

  • khangu on 05/05/2023 - 16:22
    +1

    Lol OP wants to start a neighborhood war over a section of fence that will likely cost him $500 if that.

    Pick your battle. This is not the hill you want to die on.

    • chriskq on 05/05/2023 - 19:09

      $500 for 13m of fence? $38 per metre? Pull the other one. hipages has a general guide of $75 to $120 per metre for bog standard timber pine

      • seannami on 05/05/2023 - 20:27
        +1

        My quotes were around $140/m for a 1.95m timber/1.8m colourblind for the back yard, side fence would be shorter and cheaper

    • notfrodo on 05/05/2023 - 20:32

      Cheapest quote was $90/m. It will cost me $2500 to do both sides. I am not sure where you are getting $500 fence quotes from but please send them my way

      • khangu on 05/05/2023 - 21:08

        I thought 13m was the total for both sides, and you wanted to claim half at 6.5m with that neighbour which at $90 (your quote) per m would be around $540.

        Anyway it's not something I would fight over tbh. It's not worth the bad blood with someone you'd be living next to for several years!

        • chriskq on 05/05/2023 - 22:00

          you may want to re-read the post, the neighbour is an estate builder so highly unlikely they will be living there.

          i'd be pushing it, go legal if you have to

  • vorsprung on 05/05/2023 - 21:29

    Someone needs to launch OzSolicitor already. All OzBargain members would get automatic membership of course.

    • john_conner on 05/05/2023 - 21:58
      +1

      Nah all ozbargainers too cheap to pay and will just ghost or argue when they don’t like the opinion provided.

  • Nebargains on 05/05/2023 - 22:24

    I don't see many houses with a fence right to the footpath, I think it would look odd. Just thinking about my street (not a new estate, old suburb) and not a single house has a fence to the footpath, the closest would be about 5m back but most are ~10m.

    What is the reason for wanting this extra fencing?

    • notfrodo on 06/05/2023 - 15:57

      It is a 13m long gap. It looks strange AF to have a gap that long where someone can just step into your property from the neighbouring side. I am not talking about a massive fence… just something that tapers down to 0.5m

  • No ONE on 06/05/2023 - 02:43
    +1

    New thread:
    Neighbour does not give permission to extend fence despite I am paying the full cost.

  • ceroau on 06/05/2023 - 07:58
    +1

    How long is a piece of string?

    Are they “required”? Maybe what does your local council say?

    What does the law say about this? Did you consult a lawyer? You tell me. I’d assume this is a local council matter there maybe something on a state level to give some insight to the situation here but I’m not a lawyer.

    My question to you is if this is such a big deal that you’re willing to try and force your neighbour in half paying for a fence they don’t want why haven’t you simply just spoken to the council and got yourself a lawyer? Because the neighbour made it clear, they aren’t paying for a fence it doesn’t matter what they’re “required” to do and the only way to force them is via legal proceedings.

    Pick your battles dude, right or wrong, legal or not legal until you lawyer up and go to court are moot points. save yourself the stress and either pay for the fence yourself or drop it

  • Slo20 on 06/05/2023 - 11:31

    How big is your block? I think your maths is way off to say it’s 13m fence on both side of your house. That implies your block is over 1000m2

    • notfrodo on 06/05/2023 - 15:53

      I am not sure how you arrived at that using just the length of a part of a fence. The measurement is correct. That side of my boundary is 34m in total.

      • Slo20 on 06/05/2023 - 18:26

        I came to that conclusion based on your drawing. You drew a square block and I estimated the sides to be 33m each which would give you 1089m2 block.

  • Venustrap87 on 06/05/2023 - 12:20

    Talk to your builder and ask to extend

  • ParkingFine23 on 06/05/2023 - 13:13
    +1

    In my area (Gold Coast City Council), you do not own the 3m of land in front of your lot. This is owned by the crown, and is reserved for the subterranean running of services (water, electricity, phone lines, sewers etc) and other features such as foot paths, fire hydrants and street lighting. The land may also be used (in the future) for the purpose of widening the abutting road. The lot owner may not build in this area, in fact, to install a driveway that traverses this area, you need to apply to the council for a "cross-over permit". Most houses in my street have a masonry style front wall with a gate, which is set back precisely 3m from the gutter.

    The Gold Coast Council has produced a fencing guide, available here: https://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/files/sharedassets/public/p… I think you should check your local council rules, which need to be read in conjuction with the relevant State fencing act to determine if you may construct a fence within the setback.

    This image highlights the part of the lot that is privately owned in a typical Gold Coast street, and the 3m setback that is crown property. https://imgur.com/a/BoeU2OQ The image is taken from the Gold Coast Council Interactive City Plan available here: https://cityplan.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/eplan/0/184 You can see that there are no structures within this area, apart from driveways, which have been approved by the council.

    If your fencing disupute was in the Gold Coast, I beleive you would be entitled to share the cost of extending the fence from its current location to the cloest point of your lot boundary to the road, This point would not be at the footpath, but at a point behind the crown-owned setback. In Gold Coast, this would be 3m back from the gutter. You would need to check your local council rules for setbacks and crown reservations.

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