Is capitalism ruining society or lifting it up? Vote now and let your voice be heard!
✍️ Share your thoughts in the comments, but remember to keep it civil, no matter how heated the debate gets! Let's hear your opinions!
Yes, capitalism is the engine of progress that has created wealth and improved lives around the globe.
No, capitalism exploits the masses, concentrates wealth in the hands of a few, and causes social and environmental destruction.
Almost every billionaire is a social engineer by influence on policy, and use that very status of 'work and infrastructure provision' to manipulate the lives of the plebs. You don't think Murdoch,Rhinehart,Palmer,Forrest are all altruistic don't have direct input into govt decisions? Gerry Harvey's direct impact on consumer laws and taxes,ring a bell. Poor struggling Gerry.
Look at how Musk has shaped the world. Is it all good? Trump?
There's more than just envy to consider when it comes to the mega rich and their secondary,tertiary impacts on the people beneath.
Discussing or having idealistic aspirations and possibilities beats the shit out of accepting everything as 'our lot'. Apathy hasn't done anything but accelerate the negative impacts of us and rapacious greed.
So on greed, you're right. Look what Howard did to our social fabric. Greed swallowed the middle classes.
As for people wanting to participate and further themselves along the capitalist gravy train. Not everyone can. It's not that simple. There are hundreds of thousands of people right down the bottom who "wish" .Opportunity is not afforded to everyone. For a myriad of reasons, the pawns are still pawns, even when they wish they weren't.
Every-time someones suggests "setting up their own socialism model" it always sounds to me like it comes from a place where 'I'm alright Jack'. That's the antithesis of the fair go. The one Howard replaced with 'greed is good'.
How exactly did Howard ruin our social fabric with "greed is good"?
Opportunity is not afforded to everyone? You had the most opportunity under Howard to build your own future. Affordable housing, able to have unlimited super top ups - no caps, a natural resource/mining boom, etc.
In Australia - you have freedom of choice to pursue what you want. Whether that is beneficial to you now/later/if at all, is not something that can be guaranteed. One in the hand now, or many later? That is up to you.
Equality in starting position will never be the case. Some people are born into great head starts. The reality is - this country, if you want, allows you opportunity to work your way up/upskill/get to where you need to. Will some people have very little rest and have to work their absolute behinds off at the start? Yes.
Those on the bottom "wish"? There are so many free resources to get started on. There are so many programs out there to help.
I'll again refer back to your "opportunity is not afforded to everyone". This - actually makes me chuckle a bit considering it is an anonymous forum, but it'd be funny to you too if you knew my background, and where my family/myself are at now from where we started. Choices made are what resulted in what they did. A lot was sacrificed initially - a lot - to get to where we are - but those were choices made by my family - but those choices were only made possible because this country allowed for them to exist.
If you can't see how Howard changed our social fabric , then you must have historical blinkers. If you can't recognise certain people don't (never) have opportunities to advance themselves,( multiple reasons) then you really haven't being paying attention.But don't worry, you're not alone .
Chuckle away.
@Protractor: I mean this seems to be a typical debate style of most people these days - "if you don't know - then you're insert whatever".
Prove your point - and you may change my point of view. If you don't care to do so - what exactly was the intent of engaging in the conversation?
Never having opportunities in this country is absolute nonsense. There is exceptions to every rule - but in this country - that is nonsense. You can start with absolutely nothing here, and make yourself a success (whatever that may be in your view).
I'm not saying certain people aren't burdened with more, don't have as many opportunities, it isn't far tougher for them, etc. We don't start on equal footing - sure. But to say you are never afforded an opportunity, or you can't get anywhere… Eh.
@swolem8: https://www.quarterlyessay.com.au/essay/2004/12/breach-of-tr…
https://johnmenadue.com/wake-up-australia-the-rot-began-with…
https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/9592571c-801c-46be-9c9d-75d…
Howard told the nation to ignore it's history.
The privatisation of Telstra … do I need to explain that too? The monopoly, the greed, the lost chance to have a proper NBN in place and done properly.Great for share holders… And after tax payers who built Telstra lost out, the same tax payers had to buy back bits to feed into the poxxed NBN hybrid system. It's the gift that keeps taking. It pitted parts of the community against others, by selling a profitable necessary infrastructure, and consumers have been burnt ever since.
Howard championed xenophobia, and now it's the LNPs mainstay, or deep you sleep through or vote for that?
Children overboard?
We became a society of less compassion, more greed,self interest,where hate speech gets dressed up as free speech by the foot soldiers of division. In Canberra and now across the community.
@Protractor: Ah yes - privatisation bad because it messes things up and doesn't get us to where we need to be. Lets look at all things now that weren't - and how soaring costs are an issue - and have been even before this inflation craziness.
All I'll say is - energy prices are something a lot of people, myself included are pissed about.
Our poxxed NBN hybrid system… We all are able to watch 4k streams on multiple units, majority of people work from home no issues, and I haven't once looked at my internet bill of $65 a month and thought I'm paying too much. Same with my mobile bills. If anything - relatively, they are getting cheaper.
Damn privatisation…
On the Australia being xenophobic front and hating refugees… maybe you'd like a point of view from an actual refugee? lol…
Why are so many people fighting to get here if it is so bad in that regard? There is always going to be some uneducated idiot who hates you because of where you're from or who you are. The reality is, once you're here, it doesn't stop you from doing anything. Miss out on a job? Sure - maybe. You might get one too if someone else is from where you're from too.
What is it you want? Open borders? Anyone can come in? It just isn't feasible - and this onus always seems to fall back on the likes of Australia/America. You never see a country like Japan get lambasted for its immigration/refugee policies.
A lot of the freedoms/safeness provided of living in Australia is its rigorous policies.
Howard told the country to forget/ignore its history? Not really. He may have ignored certain things, sure. But by all accounts, he seemed someone focused on actionable/tangible results rather than posturing/pandering to crowds for the sake of it. Certain actions were taken by leaders after him… acts/shows/displays… and that is all they were, and nothing was fixed.
LNP's mainstay? I don't really care who you vote for or where you lean - as I don't back either party. But it is clear you have an ingrained mindset on this. Hate speech? The world has become so sensitive these days that anyone with altering opinions to yours is labelled as someone spreading hate. It is becoming hard to take it seriously and anyone who uses the term I often find uses it very loosely.
@swolem8: The fact you defend the use of but not the labelling of HATE speech as just that, shows you may not have a binary voting perspective. But it certain shows where YOU lean.
And just because you are a refugee, does not give a single iota more credibility on the xenophobia that became (even more) a part of our social fabric under and since Howard, and which has proliferated so much that the greatest threat to our security is now this right wing nutjob cohort.
Defend the crap NBN .Stream till you melt. It's over priced,undelivered,took forever,half arsed and a public liability for all time. When it EASILY could have been so much more. It lined the pocket of yet another imported numpty US CEO, to fellate Washington. It's hand-balled to RSPs who easily negate any consistency now and going fwd. We paid more than once for the mess, and we will keep paying to upgrade but never ever reach it's potential. Other countries systems make the NBN look like what it is.
I'd rather have an ingrained mindset where racial vilification is seen as abhorrent, than defend the right to channel and express peak Apartheid attitude, 'because free speech'.
I'm sure you use the term 'virtue signalling every chance you get.
@Protractor: Oh really? Which way do I lean?
No credibility at all. You're absolutely right. Your anecdotal articles versus my anecdotal lived experience are entirely equal.
"Right wing nutjob" - "LNP bad" - "Racism/Hate Speech"
Okay.
Thanks for insinuating the language in which you think I use. Of course I use virtue signal a lot. I've offered an altering opinion, or hate speech as you'd call it.
Some people are very good at pointing the negatives out, but then what? What is an alternative?
@swolem8: Maybe we should all play the "woke" card? Then we can reserve energy wasted on empathy to turn back the boats.
Don't look now but free speech has enabled the vilest of right wing white supremacy in the most refugee and immigrant populated areas.
Only one party has defended the incubator that enabled that. They stole it from Hanson.LOL
@Protractor: Why would you just let anyone that illegally jumped onto a boat come into this country without all of the checks and balances? If anyone on this forum jumped on a boat illegally bound for any other country they would also be locked up on arrival.
@jazinger23: Exactly right… look at the countries with the most slack laws on that front - then look at their societal state and crime rates…
Let a whole bunch of people in with no method of supporting them or giving them a decent way of life, and what do you think happens?
@swolem8: Then you'd have to include the USA . .But boy is there a big slab of home grown crims. Maybe the guns contribute?
These issues are all the result (as are almost every other existential problem) the direct result of an overpopulated planet. That's the key tenet of capitalism. Growth.
It was almost inevitably lead to war. What a way to adjust the 'number of us'. We are supposedly the smartest monkeys.
Australia has been lucky so far. But a deep recession, local conflict and the dumfuggery of 900,000 new bums on seats in 2 years is asking for social /environmental carnage in one form or another
@Protractor: Look at the further increase in crime in USA since the democrats took over and wanted to open the borders to all and sundry.
@Protractor: USA is exactly who I was referring to.
Lax on that front, no system to support the influx of mass illegal immigration and you get looting/theft/violent crimes as people can't go through the proper methods due to their status in the country, hence have to resort to extremes.
But yeah - just let everyone in.
@swolem8: Easy. Live within the means of the planet. (breed less on this overpopulated planet). Most- if not all- 'actual' existential problems go away.
@swolem8: Immigration and crime rates are linked.
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2022/12/01/…
@jazinger23: Not sure, but thousands of Vietnamese Australians made the place great via boat refugee status.
Seems that the US /Australian (illegitimate) wars misery is different. I have no problem with checks and balances, but you can't tell me there is any justification for offshore detention for 5 years and more.
Nor is there any excuse for politically hand-balling our Karma to NZ, America and others.
On one hand we said people are entitled to asylum, but not here. WTF.
Look at the nightmare in Afghanistan and Syria. Not sure packing the 'checks & balances' is high on the list for literally terrorised victims.
Look at Ukraine. Would we stop their boats,too?
I'll bet there's plenty of bad apples rolling into Darwin that we don't even get to background check, cos USA military.
@Protractor: Sweeden is a prime example of why you just can't open the doors to everyone.
Sweden has failed to integrate the vast numbers of immigrants it has taken in over the past two decades, leading to parallel societies and gang violence, Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson said on Thursday, as she launched a series of initiatives to combat organised crime
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-pm-says-integra…
@jazinger23: Refugees and ppl seeking abetter life will always seek harbour.
It's the amount of 'us' that drives all that.
@jazinger23: Until the LNP get in and they filter for votes. Sending human cattle somewhere else, no matter how legitimate the claim or how desperate the exit.
Even Gillard excised sovereign islands to deny refuge 'because' votes.
2 things.
(1)We (Australia) 'were' better than that.
(2) Too many humans
@Protractor: It was Labor that started offshore processing.
How many migrants are you willing to house and look after when they come here?
@jazinger23: LNP bad - white privilege - overpopulation - down with capitalism
I'm really not trying to be an ass, but it is like talking to a woke monolith stuck in motion.
@swolem8: How do you know your debating with a leftie? Once their argument falls to pieces they just start with the personal attacks rather than debating your actual points.
Yet you always support all the WEF, UN and WHO policies that are being implemented in Australia right now by all Labor governments federally and at state level. Who do you think they will advantage? The poor and middle class or the super rich elites?
capitalism may be kinda like democracy, as Winston Churchill once said:
"democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried"
https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/the-worst-form…
This guy gets it. Capitalism is the least worst form of economic development….that we've tried.
Yes
Competition is the basis of all success within human history
Competition also breeds corruption.
We are unfortunately in capitalisms end game, with ironically the root of its downfall (greed) being the exact reason why it's far superior to communism - A system like communism requires humans to dissolve greed from its collective psyche, something which is impossible. I've never seen a communist able to respond to that. Communists are deluded, yet clearly empathetic.
The biggest test to both structures is yet to come with the emergence of artificial intelligence.
Competition also breeds corruption.
Would that mean that with no competition we'd have no corruption?
It's really impossible to think of because I genuinely cannot think of humans with "Competition" (as a broad term) extracted from our lives - We compete for things that don't have a monetary attachment too.
Would you rate American health care better than Australia's?
@deme: Depends. In terms of availability? No. In terms of actual quality of healthcare? Yes. The US has the greatest specialists in disease in the world. I still prefer Australia's system.
@deme: Mayo clinic, Cleveland clinic.
Not sure why you're attempting a "gotcha" on this - Because the U.S health system is largely capitalistic, it has the best doctors on the planet.
Because the U.S health system is largely capitalistic, it has the best doctors on the planet.
You need to prove this though.
Mayo clinic, Cleveland clinic.
Still going to need actual proof.
@deme: https://www.newsweek.com/worlds-best-hospitals-2022
Don't bother going back many years since its always USA.
@deme: The work is in collaboration with Statista and based on real world feedback from actual patients and over 80,000 experts in the field…
What exactly are you after? A simple google search will have the common names in the top 10 keep popping up.
America having the best medical experts in the world isn't some slightly random stat/fact.
You need to prove this though.
This is pretty common knowledge. The bulk of world leading medical knowledge and research comes out of the the US and UK.
But sure, here you go:
Top medical universities: https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/universi…
Most innovation: https://sterlingmedicaldevices.com/thought-leadership/medica…
Best doctors: https://flexyinfo.com/which-country-has-the-best-doctors/
Socialists often confuse access to care, with quality of care. The American system might not be great for those who can't afford it, but if you can, it's the best in the world.
If (and right now it's looking more like a when) supercompetent AI renders everyone with a desk job functionally redundant on the same afternoon, I'm curious to see what sort of solution capitalism will suggest for that.
Pretty much everyone with a six figure 'knowledge, information and experience' based role will be rendered less useful than 4 seconds of GPT4 (or the next thing's) attention but we'll all still be alive, we'll all still need to eat, but worst of all we'll all have liabilities (mortgages) and expectations that align to our 'current' (then immediately prior) social standing and status that we'll no longer rationally be entitled to, because we're objectively no longer any use to society.
The mass panic that social licensing of AI would cause (and under capitalism and a lean economy there's really no way it won't be embraced on the basis of 'think of the savings') could literally unseat centuries of social norms that rely on a societal structure (including thou shall not kill) in weeks, or less.
If we'd been serious about a mature system for UBI, or had some kind of scaffolding where climbing job levels wasn't our be all and end all, this thing might have been survivable, but honesty once this cat comes right out of the bag, I think those of us with intangible computer roles are going to be in big trouble, and the government (and our system) will be probably 15-30 years behind the 8 ball, and as such entirely unable to help us before we have to resort to killing each other for beans.
If we'd been serious about a mature system for UBI
That doesn't sound like capitalism
It sounds like something that plausibly could be something of a solution to massive redundancy; if it had been more developed, or explored further. Or, found not to be the solution, but in exploration had uncovered other options.
My point was that for what may well be coming, I do not believe we have a solution. Or, we don't have one we can apply quick enough to stop people cracking each others heads and feasting on the goo inside.
It sounds like shit from the lunatic fringe, but I know people right across the complexities of this AI surge who are in the executive class who started looking for land to grow vegetables the day after they got a look under the hood of GPT4.
I know people right across the complexities of this AI surge who are in the executive class who started looking for land to grow vegetables the day after they got a look under the hood of GPT4.
lol, ask them if they can even give you the most basic explanation of a transformer model.
Capitalism isn't flawless but it's the best we have by far. Socialism doesnt work, communism doesn't work, we know the atrocities and profound suffering in North Korea, China and Cuba. Nothing will ever be 100% equitable, it's not possible. There will always be those on the top and bottom. The difference is, capitalism is still able to provide more socioeconomic mobility than any other system.
profound suffering in North Korea, China and Cuba
Sanctions,
Life expectancy is now higher than USA and sanctions,
Sanctions,
hmmm
I had attempted to restrain myself from replying to this comment, but the level of idiocy was an outright injustice so here I am. You believe Chinas life expectancy reportings, a country which has lied about every single statistic since the beginning of time. All of their economic and public health figures are completely fabricated. I dont agree with sanctions either, it only hurts the people on the bottom. But that doesn't change ANYTHING in regard to the fact the communist & socialist models have failed abysmally.
Jeez, China sounds like the NRA
"lied about every single statistic since the beginning of time.
To think China hasn’t embraced capitalism makes no sense.
Tch tch.!
Did you forget?
Rule Number 1. China always bad
Rule number 2 . America always good*
*.https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/us-progun-activist-slammed-for-attempted-attack-on-aussie-tourist/news-story/12a5d55b07ea7bff5b7554b5b90f1f6d
according to the chinese government, china is probably wealthier than norway. do you really believe that?
China GDP: 17.73 trillion USD (2021)
Norway GDP: 482.2 billion USD (2021)
Source http://datatopics.worldbank.org/world-development-indicators
I feel that too many people view socialism is everyone must share anything and everything. No actual socialist will ever want what you've just proposed.
A more rational way of viewing what actual socialists want is, anything necessary such as food, healthcare, education, housing be funded or subsidized depending on your situation. Your Ps5, holidays, concert tickets not so much. You'd have to work and maintain a job for those.
With the age of automation and soon A.I, humans have been more productive than ever yet the standard of living keeps decreasing for the general population which is the unfortunate end result of Capitalism.
No actual socialist will ever want what you've just proposed.
Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Sanders all wanted exactly that
A more rational way of viewing what actual socialists want is, anything necessary
As with the examples above, what is considered 'necessary' changes until the murdering begins…
such as food, healthcare, education, housing be funded
Funded by who? And by what mechanism? As with the examples above, it eventually involves a lot of murder…
yet the standard of living keeps decreasing
Lol, the exact opposite is true thanks to capitalism:
https://shortfall.blog/the-deep-optimism-manifesto-262f273c9…
This is why Socialists is never taken seriously by anyone with a functioning brain. They have absolutely no idea how the world works yet want to burn it to the ground.
Before you start the next revolution, I suggest you go visit a socialist utopia like Cuba and witness first hand what you are wishing for.
Unless you’re part of the elite and wealthy and privileged - you should not be supporting capitalism.
If you do you should not be using any NDIS, any social welfare, any tax subsidies as that would be against your “philosophy”
Well, that is but if you happen to be a massive hypocrite that has double standards and just neg vote for no reason lol
But one day I might be a billionaire
You'd have a lot more money by paying less taxes that pay for services that you aren't using.
I wonder if 10 socialists here would like to pool their money together here and then share it amongst them to whoever "needs" it.
Unless you’re part of the elite and wealthy and privileged - you should not be supporting capitalism. If you do you should not be using any NDIS, any social welfare, any tax subsidies as that would be against your “philosophy”
By this same logic, if you are a socialist, you should never engage in free trade.
I'll tell you what. I'll give up the NDIS, Medicare, Centrelink which I already pay for and don't use, and you give up using any privately operated business and we'll see who dies first 🤣
This is why socialists can't be taken seriously. You never really think anything through…
Unchecked capitalism leads to the social decay of the West. The American uniparty.
Sock puppet A or B. Whoever you elect they do not represent you. They represent the lobbist i.e. bribes by big Tech, big Pharma, big Media and big Oil. Key is big corporations buy the election and things happen because they those in power owe you big time.
Unfetted capitalism leads to the working poor and low wages of America, ignored homelessness and crap infrastructure which impairs their society.
" They represent the lobbYist i.e. bribes by big Tech, big Pharma, big Media and big Oil (gas/coal/US weapons industry) .> big religion. "
The tax avoiding,policy driving hypocrites with a key to the lodge. Imagine being lobbied by (subservient to) a cult who wilfully committed or covered up child abuse
I vote for Gerry and his dog!
I love all the comments about capitalism not being equal for all lol.
In what world have humans or any living being been "equal"? There is always a hierarchy. In a capitalistic society those who are smart enough and hungry enough with a focus to do well in life financially, then they can. Everyone has an opportunity to do so.
Those who don't have that drive or prefer to live a life where financial gain is not their focus (nothing wrong with this by the way), will have to settle for a mediocre lifestyle.
The beauty is that everyone has a choice, and the other beauty is that even though you choose the "mediocre lifestyle" route, you will still live quite comfortably and if you can't work, there are also plenty of social security options to ensure you have a roof over your head or you don't starve. Just don't complain about those who focused a lot of time, energy and sacrifice to excel financially
I think the idea is that ownership of finite means of production capitalism necessarily produces inequality regardless of the opportunities available (because simply put not everyone can be a shopkeeper).
Being a shopkeeper is not the only way to excel financially. I still maintain that anyone with the drive to succeed can do so regardless of where you came from
And inequality in a capitalist world is largely exagerrated as well - mostly from the middle class driven by jealousy;
Instead of eating at fine dining restaurants, you have to settle for local cafes - well you still get to eat a great meal
Instead of living in posh suburbs by the water, you have to settle for somewhere in the burbs - well you still get a roof over your head and are safe
Instead of driving a lambo you have to settle for a camry - well you still get a car
Instead of going to private school you have to settle for public - well you still get a great education
Look at some communist and 3rd world countries and you will know what true inequality means. People at the lower end literally eating boiled bark from the trees to survive while the top end who controls everything gorge on the finest of everything
I don't like the poll to begin with as I'm seeing pros and cons of both arguments. For commerners Capitalism feels good (as you've got so called 'freedom of speech' and anyone can be a millionaire - in theory at least). On the other hand, communism doesn't sound that good (as it won't let you say whatever you wish and won't let you get ahead above others). Theoretically however it's the opposite. Capitalism sounds ugly and greedy while Socialism sounds beautiful and fair. Now that we're living in a capitalist country, it's also true that most of us (including myself) are biased towards capitalism (and those who are living in a communist country would see us as 'brain washed' (obviously this applies to other way as well - we see those who're advocating communism while living there as 'brain washed'.) At least if we have the ability to understand the fact that we value different things based on circumstances surrounding us and knowledge fed to us, it's easier to understand both worlds. For an example; communists may struggle to understand 'how come freedom of speech can be more important than free healthcare for everyone so no-one would die on streets'.
Now that we're living in a capitalist country, it's also true that most of us (including myself) are biased towards capitalism (and those who are living in a communist country would see us as 'brain washed'
No, not really…
It’s the overprivileged types experiencing some sort of imposter syndrome in the West, romanticising about equity in their mansions and Ivy league campuses. Would they ever get out and move to those communist countries that they keep obsessing about, never.
Whereas look at all the descendants from the USSR bloc, South Americans and the Chinese etc.
They all voted with their feet and moved to those ‘evil’ capitalist regimes that they all soo despised growing up by moving to the West in mass numbers.
This isn’t a balanced argument as you think it is..
Exactly right. The only ones spewing this nonsense are rich Hollywood folks and those who have done well through… capitalism.
Every refugee that comes here from a "socialist" country couldn't be happier. Everyone you see from Cuba as an example from America ends up aligning themselves with the political party furthest from socialism/communism as possible. This system has damaged and impacted them that much that they just want their freedom and ability to live their life with no interruption and disturbance.
Not shocked to see Protractor using more generic buzz words in his argument haha. Only had to scroll a little bit further past my responses earlier in this thread.
Extreme self responsibility and taking control of what you have in front of you is mostly gone. Everyone is hooked on the dopamine rush, and if you aren't catered for or helped in a short time, its unfair apparently. Everyone now just thinks people had it easy back in the day and just amassed wealth like no ones business. Capitalism bad. I want my first house to be 5 minutes from the city and my first car to be a BMW. My parents and the old generation have everything.
Its ridiculous really.
Freedom of speech is not capitalist linked, it's purely politically linked.And recently even narrower circumstances. It starts with rich,white entitled (in Western countries, at least) and works down based on not rich, not white, not entitled.
linked, it's purely politically linked
Ohh right, so the free market doctrines and the open market enterprise just happen to run parallel to each other, totally unrelated too?
Okay.
white entitled
And you’re a racist too.
Got it 👍🏻,
Oh no! I'm (self ) racially vilifying myself? OMG, what to do?
Do you seriously think 'capitalism' is a vector or enabler for free speech?
Is that why we have defamation laws, which by the way seem to be utilised (more often than not) by ppl who are either R W or E
I'm (self ) racially vilifying myself?
Again, I don’t care about your race and I don’t find that information at all relevant to this discussion.
But you are making some swooping generalisations here.
As if people’s whiteness or blackness has got anything to do with their actions.
Is that why we have defamation laws, which by the way seem to be utilised (more often than not) by ppl who are either R W or E
Your argument basically : Because free speech protection laws aren’t perfect, hence it doesn’t exist at all.🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Is this how they taught you to think at whatever progressive uni you are going to/ went to.
Btw talking about defamation lawsuits.
(https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/13694515/redir)
That’s quite the slanderous thing to say, don’t you think.
“You all agree with me or otherwise you are all rAcIsT”
Maybe but it's no coincidence that all communist countries have no freedom of speech.
Just saying.
Do we have freedom of speech?
@deme: Not true freedom of speech, no. I wish we did.
But looking at all communist countries, they had/have no freedom of speech.
@Protractor: eh?
I was just saying that we have freedom of speech but it's limited - 'oppressed' (bizarrely) is a term you've used, not me.
I personally believe that if you're not advocating violence or committing crime, you should be able to say pretty much whatever you like. It's up to us as a society to judge if we agree or disagree - that's not a role for government and the law.
I'm a hard right-wing, conservative libertarian and that's what I believe. If you don't then party on with that.
@R4: Slander/Libel/Defamation. Mainstay legal playgrounds of the litigant based epitome of democracy (USA) which is actively usurping Straya.
It's going to steam roll your liberty seeking aspirations.
Socialism sounds beautiful and fair
No it doesnt.
why
Because you'd have to give others the fruits of your labor. If you're a dole bludger or irresponsible with money, then you'd like it.
Socialists now could share their wealth to the less fortunate; they choose not to(even if they can choose the recipient). You think they would like it if they are forced to do it?
Free education, healthcare, social safety net in Australia is socialism.
Free roads vs toll roads is socialism.
I would rather live in Australia then America given extreme and unfetted capitalism.
Extreme capitalism and socialism needs to be avoided. Moderation is called for.
We are heading down the same extreme capitalism path of America free education is becoming more and more expensive in University. No social/public housing is creating homelessness and people who can longer afford homes. Roads are getting defunded. Privatisation of the energy sector has become expensive with corporations gaming the system. Water is privatised although it is a human right or need.
I AM ALL FOR CAPITALISM
why
BECAUSE
hmm
this poll is a false dichotomy
What option can I add for you?
He wants a real dichotomy.
About the poll
Give him (a) take or (b) leave it
I for one plan do do as little work as possible when socialism eventually comes in. If i have to occasionally eat one of my pets so be it!
when socialism eventually comes in
What do you call Socialism?
Won't work. You'll get fatter, can't move & then get eaten by your pets. Goldfish?
Now you understand. Others work, I eat. Thats what i call a success!
Capitalism with hints of social support networks
I agree!
You work, you earn; NOT you lazy but expect same earning.
HOWEVER, if you are misfortune, you get support. (Social Support Networks)
I just want to know for those that don't support capitalism - who told you wealth disparity or income inequality is such a terrible thing?
Why do you care that some people earn billions? These are people who continually provide work and build - hence produce more for the country and more work for workers.
Is capitalism flawed? Yes.
But these roundabout discussions of an "idealistic" world has never been productive - since it will never be possible.
Do you ever wonder why a lot of immigrants who come to this country or America from these wonderful "socialist" countries, tend to be more right leaning and as far as possible away from any "community" type policies. Because they've seen greed, poverty and deceit first hand and what it can do to them and others in destroying a decent way of life.
Capitalism is the most robust method for humans. We as people have differing levels of motivation and different paths/goals we have set out. Those who want to work - are rewarded with pay. Those who want to upskill and work - are rewarded. If certain trade/skills is needed - higher demand - more pay. If too much supply of something - readily available - it adjusts and becomes cheap/more competitive.
If you want to bum around - taxes of those who are contributing members keep you afloat. Just enough that you can get the necessities. As it should be.
If you want to travel and explore the world - you are able to.
If you want to pool your money together and create a social community in a capitalist country… nothing is actually stopping you. Why not do it? Goes back to why all those people from "socialist" countries left to come to a capitalist one like Australia and America. Greed gets the best of people.