Who Is Responsible to Pay for a Jammed Door Lock?

LDragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 21:52
Last edited 28/04/2023 - 14:14 by 1 other user

Who is responsible to pay?
Got a situation:

Our tenants are claiming that the front door lock was not working and was jammed, and tenant A was locked inside and was not able to get out and now wants us to foot the bill.

Scenario:
Tenant A called tenant B and advised that they are locked inside the apartment and can’t open the main door.
Tenant B came home and claims they were not able to open the door from outside as well.

Tenant B then called a locksmith who came and opened the door and installed a new passage lock and charged $ 700 as it was the weekend for 40 mins of work.

This whole process was done without our or our Re agent approval. When the re agent asked them why they did not call them at the time as it’s a condition of their lease they said they could not think of anything else at that stage.
Now the tenants want us to foot the bill claiming the Door lock was jammed and needed replacing.

The property has 2 locks, 1 is a deadlock and the second is the passage lock (the one that tenant say was not working)
The passage lock is the one which you can press the button from inside and once its locked it can only be opened by the key from outside.

Even if the locksmith was called without our or Re approval it would have been sufficient to open the door as the other deadlock was still working and the property would be securely locked without the need for the passage lock being replaced.
Also, not sure why the locksmith would open the door and change locks of the main door without us as owners or re agents’ approval.

Just wanted to get peoples opinion regarding this situation or if someone has been in the same.
Not trying to avoid our responsibilities as a landlord but we feel forced to foot this bill as it was done without our approval, and we think the tenants just locked themselves out. If the tenants have changed locks without our approval, then they should be footing the bills themselves.

The locksmith website does state “you need to present a government ID upon arrival to verify that you are the rightful owner”.

Invoice: https://ibb.co/p4D9cT9

UPDATE :
Spoke to the locksmith who advised the tenants were LOCKED OUT, and they insisted on changing the lock so he changed it even though there was no need.
Standard process of checking the DL and tenancy agreement was followed by the

Tenants have advised they will be paying the bill
Their lease will not be renewed, notice to vacate will be given when time comes

Poll Options expired

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Comments

  • Benoffie on 26/04/2023 - 22:01
    +12

    While technically they should have called, good luck getting it past the tenancies tribunal if they choose to pursue it.
    As the landlord, you are obligated to ensure the home is safe. Most importantly, that they can safely egress in an emergency.
    I suspect the locksmith would have deemed it a safety hazard. In which case, it ought to have been rectified most likely atthe last inspection.
    Locks very rarely suddenly fail. They are usually old and then fail. They should be high on the list of R&M for an investment property.

    • Dragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 22:04

      Thanks for your reply.. I did not neg you
      The property was rented out just last month. All the checks were done by ourselves and the re agent as well with no mention of the lock being an issue in the report tenant signed off.

      Never had issue with this lock its like very solid and good quality as our apartment doors are the heavy fire safe ones. Every apartment got the same

      • garetz on 26/04/2023 - 22:30
        +1

        Are you 100% sure it was the lock ? Wood expands and contracts depending on the temp and weather. I would get a lock and door guy out to check the whole thing out.

      • JumperC on 27/04/2023 - 02:29
        +2

        I’ve had a passage set break in a way that means you cannot turn to open it (basically the latch doesn’t retract when the handle is turned) got stuck in my bedroom, with a handle that didn’t even have a lock fitted. If it wasn’t for the fact that I was on the inside and had a screwdriver in the room I’d have had to bust the door down or call a locksmith. If it was an external door that did the same the door wouldn’t have been usable again in any way without replacing the handle/latch.

        Basically, this absolutely can happen and leave people trapped and the place insecure once opened. (Eg, if the door got shut without replacing the passage set, deadbolt or not, the passage set would get stuck immediately again and require a locksmith to open.)

        So this is potentially untrue:

        Even if the locksmith was called without our or Re approval it would have been sufficient to open the door as the other deadlock was still working and the property would be securely locked without the need for the passage lock being replaced.

        The deadlock might have been functional but without a functional passage set it may lock them out when re closed.

        They should have called the agent, but the story isn’t unbelievable. I’d just contact the locksmith that wants their invoice paid and check that’s actually what happened. You were most likely up for this cost plus a fee from your agent if they went through them. Unless they’re out and out lying.

      • AustriaBargain on 27/04/2023 - 07:46

        Oh well if you never had an issue with this lock then the tenants must be lying. Likely the locksmith is a buddy of theirs and they are scamming $700 out of you. You're lucky they didn't try a life insurance fraud by starting a fire and tenant A killing themselves while stuck behind the door, then you'd have their life insurance agency coming after you for like a million bucks.

    • JumperC on 27/04/2023 - 02:40
      +1

      Passage sets do fail quite often, though they may feel loose etc for a while first. Unless you knew what you were looking for it’s easy to miss. I had one fail on my in my own house (and yes in hindsight it did have some warning, but it was an interior door so I ignored it. :( The mechanism that retracts the latch wears and can snap. Deadbolts are usually more solid.

      Mine was only about 8 years old when it died. But it was clearly quite cheap via the previous owner that did a renovation and flip…

    • HeWhoKnows on 27/04/2023 - 08:05
      +2

      OP has an agent in charge
      Surely the agent knows all the rules and rights of both parties.
      And Im sure the well informed agent wont be taking advice from OB.

      Why is OP asking us?

      Also OP doesnt know the difference between a passage lock (no key - typically used for bathroom and toilet door) and an entance lock - used with key on front door
      Correct procedure is:
      1) Contact agent foirst
      2) Contact landlord if possible
      3) Contact tradsman from emergency contact list
      4) Contact tradesman ho is available

      Also: Are locks listed as an emergency repair?

      Here is the description for NSW:
      Urgent repairs means work needed to repair any of the following: failure or breakdown of the gas, electricity or water supply. failure or breakdown of any essential service for hot water, cooking, heating, cooling or laundering. fault or damage that makes the premises unsafe or insecure.

      • JIMB0 on 27/04/2023 - 08:46
        +2

        Because it's another TROLL 🧌 post. The dead giveaway is the new account and controversial topic of greedy landlord vs poor tenant.

  • techlead on 26/04/2023 - 22:03

    Check the tenancy agreement, there should be some emergency contacts, for urgent things like lock and plumbing.

    The tenant should have contacted the agent first. Unless its an obvious price gouge, eg should have been $300 vs $628 charged, you should just pay it and just educate the tenant that for next time, they must contact the agent first.

    • Dragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 22:07

      Yes, the re agent did give them a ear full and reminded them of the tenancy agreement and the emergency numbers to contact

      • techlead on 26/04/2023 - 22:24
        +1

        That's all you can do really. To be honest, there no point squabbling over like $100. If its a weekend, you are gonna get a call out fee regardless who you go with.

        Maybe suggest as a compromise pay 80% of the bill, but there's no point having a fight over it. Its all tax deductible as well.

        You should ask for evidence the lock was faulty though, because if they just locked themselves out, then they should definitely foot the bill.

        • Dragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 22:36

          Thanks, yes you're right. It just felt forced and strange for the lock to fail with 1 tenant inside.. will wait for locksmiths reply

  • SBOB on 26/04/2023 - 22:04
    +11

    Congrats on your future $700 tax offset claim against your investment property.

    • larndis on 27/04/2023 - 08:04
      +5

      It's a deduction, not an offset

  • Traveller107 on 26/04/2023 - 22:11
    +7

    I've seen something similar.
    The tribunal asked for locksmiths invoice with report or notes stating the lock was malfunctining.
    Tenants could not provide it. Locksmith was contacted and said he was called coz they were locked out and showed ID and it was 2am so he replaced lock promptly. He didn't see any keys and didn't see any signs of jammed lock. Tribunal asked tenant to foot the bill.

    You should speak with the locksmith. Their job is such that most have to keep notes and make 2 line reports on such incidents for landlord, police and insurance etc.

    • jolee3 on 26/04/2023 - 22:24
      +3

      I second this, the locksmith should be able to verify if the lock was indeed faulty or if he just turned up to open it because the tenants locked themselves out. The invoice looks like there was a replacement done, so I'm inclined to say you'd have to foot the bill.

      As a tenant I have had this before where I came home and couldn't open the door as it was jammed. The first thing I did was call the REA who called the locksmith ASAP who came to fix it. I didn't have to pay anything - the locksmith sorted it out with the REA/owner.

      As a landlord, I can understand it is annoying that process wasn't followed though. You want to believe people are honest but it's hard to be sure these days.

      • Dragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 22:31

        Thanks for your reply
        Yes will be checking with the locksmith, the re agent was also advising the the locksmith would have easily picked up how naive the tenants are and forced them to replace the lock even though it might not needed and they've seen this enough. Hence they have thier own trades when situation like these arise

    • Dragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 22:25

      Thanks for your reply
      Yes will be sending an email to the locksmith

  • Pelicannn on 26/04/2023 - 22:14
    +2

    If they're good tenants, maybe just cop it on the chin as above after instructing them in the future to call the emergency contacts listed in the Rental Agreement. Then claim the cost as a tax offset.

    On the plus side, be thankful that Tenant A didn't just bust the door down from the inside requiring a repair to the door, frame and locks. Then be even more thankful something (although incredibly unlikely) didn't occur that resulted in an emergency evacuation of the building or a medical episode trapping Tenant A inside.

    • Dragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 22:27

      Thanks for your reply

  • Slinky0111 on 26/04/2023 - 22:18
    +2

    Owners responsibility. Passage locks eventually wear.

    Our toddler was stuck inside a room and the passage lock activated. We triee dissasembling the lock from the outside and could not get it to not be engaged. Had to put a shoulder thru the door to gain entry. Split the door a bit and owner is going to fix it.

    It been a weekend and calling the real estate would it have ended in another way? A handyman could have fixed it but maybe cheaper, would you go and fix and replace on the weekend?

    Regardless if the property could be securely locked up, they rented the property with 2 lockable doors which they could argue is an emergency repair.

    • Dragon90 on 26/04/2023 - 22:24

      Thanks for ur reply
      As advised by Tenant B, Tenant A was already inside the property

      • JumperC on 27/04/2023 - 02:33
        +3

        Doesn’t matter who was where, same as slinky I’ve had a passage set fail in the same way. The only way to open it for either side is to basically disassemble the broken lock (which you can do usually from the inside if you are handy and have a screwdriver inside. There’s a bit of thin metal or plastic in there that retracts the latch, when that snaps you cannot open the door once it shuts, locked or not. Once you’ve done that there’s basically a gaping hole in your door. And you’d be pissed if the tenants did this themselves.

        They would have had government ID showing they live there for the locksmith so that’s not the problem. Locksmith’s aren’t looking up your mortgage deed, they’re checking drivers licenses etc. The locksmith doesn’t need your approval (or even know you exist) if they have people with a clear right to be let in requesting to be let in. https://www.lga.org.au/our-code-practice

  • MS Paint on 26/04/2023 - 23:39
    -4

    Cheers ChatGPT

    In this scenario, it seems that the tenants took it upon themselves to call a locksmith and have the passage lock replaced without the approval of the landlord or the real estate agent. The lease agreement may have specific provisions regarding repairs and replacements, including the requirement to seek approval before making any changes.

    If the lease agreement does not place responsibility on the landlord for repairs or replacements caused by the tenant's actions or negligence, then it is possible that the tenants may be responsible for paying for the locksmith's services.

    It may be beneficial for the landlord to review the lease agreement and consult with legal counsel to determine the best course of action in this situation. Additionally, the landlord may want to speak with the tenants to discuss the situation and clarify the expectations for repairs and replacements in the future.

    • Baysew on 27/04/2023 - 10:46

      Did ChatGPT make any mention about the locksmith arriving in a BYD?

      • MS Paint on 27/04/2023 - 10:50
        +1

        Yes. Also something about that they were delayed slightly because they were at the casino.

  • jhaley3180 on 27/04/2023 - 07:54
    +1

    This is simple for me and doesn't involve "who is responsible"? Are they good tenants? If so be grateful that they are good and wear the occasional 'scratch your head incident'. $700 isn't worth the worry, losing good tenants, to potential cost of turning tenants over etc.

    • onetwothreefour on 27/04/2023 - 08:05
      +1

      They only moved in last month, so I'd say it's unlikely they will be good tenants, but you never know.

      • ThithLord on 27/04/2023 - 09:14
        +2

        I'd say it's unlikely they will be good tenants

        Don't know how on earth you can come to that conclusion so easily

  • lostgoat on 27/04/2023 - 08:48

    I reckon if your the Landlord make them pay for it . If not end of lease they are gone. It that kind of market now . If they had any brains it would be accepted . Actually they should have fixed it and notify the Landlord latter of the changes but at their cost .

    • ColtNoir on 27/04/2023 - 09:47
      +1

      Can you share why the tenant should bear the cost? I see no reason why someone who can’t exit or enter their property should be the tenants cost.

  • djsweet on 27/04/2023 - 08:49
    +3

    Tenants don’t need approval from the RE or Landlord before carrying out emergency repairs and are entitled to bill the landlord. Not being able to exit or enter the house seems like it would qualify. It’s a major safety issue.

    • Dragon90 on 27/04/2023 - 12:34

      Thanks for your reply
      We are not against doing emergency repair , what me and our agent have spoken is about the need to replace the lock.
      The locksmith has come opened the door for them, that should be the end of it.
      However there was no need to replace the lock and pay top dollars there and then.
      There is/was already a deadlock on top of this passage lock so the property would be secured and the agents would have got their trades for fraction of the cost to install a lock the next morning…

      • Webber000 on 27/04/2023 - 17:16

        I think your view that there was no need to replace the lock is flawed.
        Aside from possible safety issues of them renting a place with two locks and wanting to ensure they don't get locked in again as soon as the locksmith leaves (and you get another bill to complain about!), I suspect you may have saved $200 or so if they didn't get the lock replaced - but you would probably have been charged $300 by your preferred locksmith for your guy to go out for a new callout and then replace the lock. Plus the hassle of having to agree a suitable time etc.
        I'm not aware of any REA who gets cheap trades!
        Absolutely they should have contacted the REA or your preferred locksmith if it was listed in their contract, but if their story is true then it is very reasonable that if one of them is locked in and the other locked out that they get that done asap.

  • lostgoat on 27/04/2023 - 08:59
    +1

    $700 for a change of lock and 40 mins work is an another normal Tradie rip off again .
    They can't be stopped !
    AirBnb would have got it done for around $200 but they prey on no competition for jobs.

    • Dragon90 on 27/04/2023 - 12:27

      Yep…me in wrong career

  • 82norm on 27/04/2023 - 09:30
    -3

    Just increase their rent when it’s time.

  • WreckTangle on 27/04/2023 - 09:31

    Even if they had phoned the agent first, the agent would have authorised a locksmith in this emergency case. You’d still be on the hook for this locksmith charge either way.

    • Dragon90 on 27/04/2023 - 12:39

      Opening door yes,
      Agent wouldn't have approved replacing lock the re agent would gave got it done the next morning.
      The property is secure even without the passage lock, its got a deadlock as well

  • ColtNoir on 27/04/2023 - 09:45
    -1

    Having a lock that once it’s locked can only be opened from the outside, rather than also the inside by turning the handle, is a major safety and fire risk.

    It never should have been there in the first place.

    Could the locksmith have changed it to a regular lock, yes, but then come end of tenancy time the RE would have pinged them for it not being the same.

    The safety aspect of this is where you’d never win any argument for.

    All RE’s aren’t equal. My current RE is quite good and in addition to the lease provides a 1 pager of recommended companies for emergency services for out of hours reasons. I’m sure they get better deals this way.

    At the end of the day, just be glad there wasn’t a fire and your negligence (the passage lock) was the cause of someone’s death.

    • Dragon90 on 27/04/2023 - 12:37

      You can open the lock from inside also, its a passage lock, its got a button

      • ColtNoir on 29/04/2023 - 11:47

        I’m only answering based on what you wrote

        “The passage lock is the one which you can press the button from inside and once its locked it can only be opened by the key from outside”

        If two people couldn’t open it from either side and based on this comment saying it should open from the inside, it sounds faulty. This is an emergency repair as access is compromised.

        I can’t for the life of me figure out why you think this is the tenants responsibility.

  • Bob Svargis on 27/04/2023 - 12:04

    Ask your agent, that's what you pay them for

  • 2esc on 27/04/2023 - 12:06

    No back door to this property?

    • Dragon90 on 27/04/2023 - 12:37

      Apartment

  • Waltervp on 27/04/2023 - 12:42

    What an incredibly expensove charge from a locksmith! Im from tasmania, but this is worse than a vet bill! I would more importantly qeury the locksmith pricing!!! Or am i that much out of touch…

    • Dragon90 on 27/04/2023 - 12:44

      Yep, re and me were even thinking the tenants asked for inflated bill…

      • ColtNoir on 29/04/2023 - 11:51

        I once helped out a friend who locked her keys inside. Approx 2013ish in Sydney.

        Friday 8pm call-out, was there in 15mins and the job including payment to 5 mins.

        WD-40 and his magic lockpocking tool that took him 10 seconds cost $300 back then.

  • Ryk on 28/04/2023 - 09:50

    did the tennant bring their own front door with them when they moved in?

  • 82norm on 29/04/2023 - 09:15

    For those who voted the landlord should pay, would you pay if you were the landlord and it say came to say $1000.00… doubt it. Take the tenant to tribunal.

  • Hopscotchy on 10/05/2023 - 00:06

    Thanks for the update on this one OP!

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