This was posted 1 year 7 months ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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fanxiang S770 2TB PCIe Gen 4 NVMe M.2 2280 SSD With Heatsink US$122.70 (~A$183.83) Delivered @ LDCEMS via Amazon US

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fanxiang S770 2TB PCIe Gen 4 NVMe M.2 2280 SSD With Heatsink US$122.70 (~A$183.83) Delivered @ LDCEMS via Amazon USAffiliate
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Look Up on 24/04/2023 - 16:37 amazon.com (349 clicks)
Last edited 24/04/2023 - 16:37
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According to flypig Yangtze Memory Technologies (YMTC) NAND is hot shit so if you buy this drive, you'll be sticking it to the US (Micron), South Korea (Samsung, SK Hynix), Japan (Kioxia) and their excessive profits
Huge specs, KC3000 and SN850X like performance for 20% less
PS5 compatible, bundled with heatsink
Make sure to tick the 10% off coupon before adding to cart

P/N Unknown

Controller: InnoGrit IG5236
Memory: YMTC 128L Xtacking 2.0 TLC
DRAM Cache: SK Hynix 2GB DDR4
Sequential Read: 7300 MB/s
Sequential Write: 6800 MB/s
Random Read: Unknown
Random Write: Unknown
Endurance (TBW): 1400 TB
Warranty: 5 Years

Price History at C CamelCamelCamel.
Computing 2TB Computer Component Fanxiang M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD

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closed Comments

  • dealhunter52 on 24/04/2023 - 16:43
    +15

    you'll be sticking it to the US (Micron), South Korea (Samsung, SK Hynix), Japan (Kioxia) and their excessive profits

    Na….Why would we stick it to our strategic allies and not Chinese state owned company? Sorry, I don't get it.

    • MagnamoniousRex on 24/04/2023 - 17:42
      +2

      Must be a tankie

      • MagnamoniousRex on 24/04/2023 - 17:57
        +6

        Relevant Perun video on Hybrid warfare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUBTyAZg5OA

        China disagrees we aren't at war. Just because they don't have troops landing here doesn't mean they don't need to be kept in check.

          • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 18:33
            +1

            @wormarts: Mate, Amazon US is an American company. I don't get the whinging. An Aussie listed a Chinese SSD deal selling on a well known USA web site. You still want to bend it and whinge.

            If you insist on being biased, then you need to allow the other side of the arguments being posted. You really want to do something, man up and go to the USA and talk to the decision makers. Whinging on OZB is useless.

            Honestly, I'd rather whinge about why we are having more SSD deals every day.

      • dealhunter52 on 24/04/2023 - 18:03
        +2

        You do realise that every dollar you spent buying from Chinese state owned companies attributes to weapons aimed at Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan and every other nation in the South China sea?

        I suppose you didn’t have any objections to buying your latest phone because it was made in China?

        I don't buy Iphone…but even if I did, there is a difference between Chinese made and Chinese owned (profits stay with CCP).

        I can see now that the groundwork is being laid nicely for all voters to be anti-China so that the military contractors can find a new market to extort.

        Just a absolutely rubbish argument. Can't believe someone can be so absurdly ignorant or biased to not know what's going with military buildup and aggression of China towards Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, India. Doing due diligence in regards to defence is no joke, so we don't want to end up like Ukraine. Europe is doing the same, it's all because of your Chairman Xi's best friend Putin.

        • wormarts on 24/04/2023 - 18:09
          -6

          “We don’t want to end up like Ukraine.”

          Right, so the Chinese are now coming for us? We’d better cut the NDIS completely then and divert all funding to the military contractors lol

          This is all so crazy.

          The whole problem is that there is now, after many years, an economy as big as the US. And the US doesn’t like it. China is trying to get the US out of its face, but is still only operating around its own shores… unlike the US, which swims right up to China’s periphery. The US wouldn’t like it if China started sending ships into the Pacific off the coast of the US, so why isn’t it the same the other way around?

          Taiwan is an issue, but it’s not black and white. Spain has similar issues with Catalonia, etc.

          Anyway I’m not going to reply. This is a website for bargains. Please though can we all just stop with the anti-China deal for the purpose of buying products. It’s like the rumblings of a de facto boycott. Crazy that this paranoia and fear is escalating in society.

          • dealhunter52 on 24/04/2023 - 18:16
            +9

            @wormarts:

            Please though can we all just stop with the anti-China deal for the purpose of buying products. It’s like the rumblings of a de facto boycott.

            Just because you're ignorant, below is a list of Australian products that are officially or unofficially boycotted by China. Hey, but don't let that stop you from sticking up for Chairman Xi.

            Wine
            Barley
            Coal
            Lobsters
            Timber
            Red meat
            Cotton

            Crazy that this paranoia and fear is escalating in society.

            Yes, sort of paranoia that prompts a country to ban a cartoon character because of close resemblance to it's President. I totally agree with you on that.

          • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 18:29
            +3

            @wormarts: Come on, guys, you really have to realise some people are simply joking / having a laugh about all these sticking it to country X, Y or Z.

            Think about it, this is a US company selling a Chinese product and OZB has zero issue getting this listed.

            Instead of those marketing images, fanxiang should improve its own Web site first.

          • Laz167 on 24/04/2023 - 18:30
            +5

            @wormarts: pretty sure Spain doesn't fly dozens of sorties over Catalonia and threaten to bomb the hell out of them, while brainwashing a generation to think they are superior and are justified in attacking their neighbors.

          • Circly on 27/04/2023 - 13:50

            @wormarts: Anti CCP get it right.

          • SvcKpc on 30/04/2023 - 22:53

            @wormarts:

            Please though can we all just stop with the anti-China deal for the purpose of buying products

            Can China please stop with the military aggression towards Taiwan?
            Can China please stop imprisoning Uyghurs?
            No? Then stop feeding us your pro-China garbage. Your country is authoritarian filth and shouldn't be supported.

            • wormarts on 01/05/2023 - 18:00
              -1

              @SvcKpc: “My” country? I’m not even Chinese. Not that that should even matter. Get outta here. You psycho

              Let’s see you boycott US products too lol. The US is responsible for 500,000 to 1 million civilian deaths in Iraq. No WMD found, so a pointless ‘war’. Remember that? All great powers do bad things.

        • OzzyBrak on 24/04/2023 - 18:59
          +1

          The Australian Defence Force is forking out up to $14million a year to buy uniforms and equipment from China because it can be made cheaper than on home soil.

          I don’t think a few a SSDs will make a difference.

        • Starcraftmazter on 24/04/2023 - 19:10
          -2

          Can you f off please with your warmongering

          • dealhunter52 on 24/04/2023 - 19:15
            +2

            @Starcraftmazter: Warmongering? How is refusing to buy stuff from a certain state owned company warmongering?

            Do you ever get tired of CCP bootlicking?

    • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 17:48
      +1

      Because Micron persuaded the US government to ban YTMC, who arguably has superior technology comparing to Micron.

      Destroying competition itself is a dirty tactic IMO - I would avoid Micron gear for good.

      • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 18:24
        +5

        Chinese government also banned Micron I thought?

        Also, if you want to show that you are a die hard fan, best to at least get the name right, it is YMTC. The first thing some of these Chinese SSD makers need to do is to make sure their Web sites don't look unfinished and don't even list the latest products.

        Anyway, you do realise this is an Amazon US deal right? So, the fact it, for now, Amazon US doesn't give a s*** about the so call YMTC ban.

        You've got to stop feel sorry for yourself and actually improve the product offerings. There is a big market within China and I'm sure you can get loyal supporters there.

        • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 18:41
          -4

          Micron is akin to Russia, in that they both drew the first blood. I just don't have a good feeling towards both

          I buy YMTC partially because of my affinity to the brand; but more importantly, they are technically superior this side of Intel Optane. Their 232 layer drives are the fastest in the market, they also run cool, have excellent PE cycle and data retention characteristics. They are just the best everyday drive to get atm.

          • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 20:37

            @YRT: Nah, you buy them because you managed to get them cheaper and honestly the SSDs you bought don't cost you an arm and and leg. You then sugarcoat it by all those things you came up with.

            All these technically superior are just made up excuses to numb our brains. We, consumers have rejected Intel Optane due to the cost AND SSD makers are too good at cheating. YMTC also cheat with SLC cache (all SSD makers do that). Excellent PE cycle and data retention characteristics… come on, yeah I do try to numb my brain to believe TLC is good enough, but let's be honest and accept it is cost cutting from the SSD makers.

            • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 21:00

              @netsurfer: Someone's a bit crossed…?

              I did buy the TiPlus7100 at a price higher than the PM9A1. It was to replace a PM9A1 that originally came with the ThinkPad. The PM9A1 performed flawlessly for me, but it's only 512GB and I was wanting 1TB.

              My decision was based on
              1) The speed is between 980 Pro/PM9A1 and 990 Pro
              2) Temperature lower due to being DRAMless/HMB, good for a laptop use
              3) YMTC SSDs had highest PE cycles when Chia mining was a thing
              4) Potential Samsung 3DV6 data integrity issue especially 1TB/2TB variants
              5) I just like YMTC brand

              If you ignore the politics and just from a technical point of view, the YMTC is now a very rational, very competitive SSD brand. My other choice would be SkHynix but that's for another day :)

              • teddiebear on 24/04/2023 - 22:36
                -1

                @YRT: Yawn 😩

              • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 22:55
                +1

                @YRT: Let's talk tech then:

                • If you really care about writes, then you would go for a DRAM SSD. It helps reducing / wasting P/E cycles for small files.
                • Temperature being lower has nothing to do with DRAM or not. It's the controller used in DRAMless SSD having less cores normally. TiPlus7100 uses a controller that is has a single core.
                • Samsung is not the only other choice (I get the SK Hynix appeal).
                • While I understand the appeal and agree that specs wise, it is a good choice for laptop, but you still some cherry picking on some of your points earlier.

                TiPlus7100 should be the cheapest PCIe gen 4 x4 SSD which actually meets PS5's recommended minimum speed. In general usage (without a lot of writes), it's pretty impressive. However, in sustained write or consistency tests, it doesn't beat 980 Pro (don't get me wrong, it does beat quite a lot of mainstream PCIe gen 4 x4 SSDs, but at 1TB, 980 is known to not dip into folding mode when writing (whereas TiPlus7100 does). TiPlus7100 is still impressive though.

                Too tell you the truth, I am not that impressed with PCIe gen 4 x4 SSDs. Even on a Macbook Pro 16 inch with Apple Silicon, when the RAM runs out, PCIe gen 4 x4 SSD used as virtual memory is still lousy. My PC PCIe gen 4 x4 SSDs are 2TB Seagate 530 and 2TB SN850X. My desktop PC can do 5 PCIe gen 4 x4 SSDs all use CPU lanes if I really want to.

                As for 232L VNAND, from a tech point of view, they are introduced / required for first gen PCIe gen 5 x4 SSDs. However, it is inevitable we will need something better for second gen PCIe gen 5 x4 SSDs. That is how tech goes. As for P/E write cycles, I have MLC SSDs which failed and MLC's P/E write cycles is at a level that no TLC SSD can match.

                • YRT on 25/04/2023 - 07:00
                  -1

                  @netsurfer: Just FYI, the TiPlus7100 writes faster in native TLC mode.

                  Though I'm pretty sure Micron, SkHynix will catch up soon with YMTC

                  • netsurfer on 25/04/2023 - 11:23

                    @YRT: If you are talking about TLC vs TLC, that difference is not big enough to offset the folding mode drop. TiPlus7100 cheats in a different way. The bottom line is this, YMTC is selling you higher write cycles to reduce over-provisioning (put in less cells). The down side of that is folding mode has to kick in and for a longer period of time. Folding mode is eating / adding to the write cycles. That's the thing about "marketing".

                    Micron, SK Hynix are putting their new NAND on PCIe gen 5 x4 SSDs. Sure, YMTC can re-energise the PCIe gen 4 x4 market all they want, but even if they release good SSDs, as long as their partners continue to source lower bin YMTC NAND and go cheap on components, there will still be people getting burnt by cheap / rejected YMTC NAND.

                    Also, if you intend to pick Samsung 980 Pro or 990 Pro, then you should actually know its strength and show those parts. You are just looking at the bits you want and ignores the bits you don't like. That's not objective, especially you are the one who cherry picked the comparing SSDs.

                    It's great YMTC is not holding back on cost effective PCIe gen 4 x4 DRAMless SSDs, unlike other SSD makers, protecting their flagship models. However, I think it is more important to know how each maker is cheating, including YMTC. All SSD makers cheat.

                    • YRT on 25/04/2023 - 17:21
                      -1

                      @netsurfer: Zhitai/YMTC takes my money for now, because their NANDs are among the best if not the best in business. Here's a comparison of TiPlus7100 vs 980 Pro; and I'll let data speak for itself.

                      Translate https://post-smzdm-com.translate.goog/p/an33zxo3/?_x_tr_sl=z…
                      Original https://post.smzdm.com/p/a909kpg0/

                      TLDR: Zhitai wins hands down. It's a newer product, so it should be

                      Just for those who don't know, TLC direct write is the barometer of NAND performance. YMTC leads the race at 2400MT per channel; have a look of this figure for other brands and confirm for yourself

                      While Samsung and SkHynix NANDs are not that far behind YMTC, their data integrity issue or heat management are weaknesses that are major minuses. Zhitai just happen to suit my use case best, and they are reasonably priced too

                      SLC cache mode equals better real life experience, every maker use SLC cache with their preferred algorithms that has pros and cons. If better user experience is your version of cheating, you certainly think you're smarter than those SSD engineers. Go get a job there ;)

  • RichardL on 24/04/2023 - 16:44

    Specs from TechPowerUp

  • supatight on 24/04/2023 - 16:47
    +13

    negative reviews are not great high failure rates

  • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 16:48
    +2

    If the description is correct that points to YMTC xtacking 2.0 X2-9060 being the NAND chip. This model has data loss issue, similar to late batch Samsung V6 NANDs used everywhere by Samsung. These are certainly good enough for a game drive.

    For data storage you'd want Xtacking 3.0 model, either 128 layer with model number X3-9060, or 232 layer X3-9070 which don't have data loss issue.

    • simpleman on 24/04/2023 - 17:53

      Do you mind list the models with either X3-9060 or X3-9070? Interested to buy one. Thank you mate!

      • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 18:11
        +3

        Why would you bother? You are going to rely on some marketing news data? X3-9070 is so new that it is BS to early to claim it is issue free.

        InnoGrit based SSDs do need firmware updates, which makes this SSD unattractive. Try going to the company Web site and see if you can even find the official product page for this SSD.

      • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 18:31
        +1

        I don't have a complete list, personally, I have 1) Zhitai TiPlus7100 1TB in X1 Yoga, 2) Gloway Yi 2TB X3-9070 in an USB enclosure and 3) Hikvision SSD flash drive. Our other Xiaomi laptop came originally equipped with a YMTC PC300 512GB (X2-9060 shock horror). These are OEM or near OEM (Gloway) quality products IMO.

        They don't feel any different to Samsung etc. in every day use. I'd say don't bother with YMTC specifically, unless you have a brand fetish like me ;)

        I feel I can trust my data with these drives to a degree; though as various 'gates' shown by Samsung, WD/Sandisk and YMTC, all SSDs are prone to data loss, and data back up is a MUST with any SSD.

        • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 19:10

          The main issue is xtacking 2.0 X2-9060 wasn't supposed to have those issues (the technology was hyped up so much a couple of years ago) and it is difficult for people to forget that. Samsung also had that infamous planar TLC mess, plus a bunch of more recent issues (i.e. 0E).

          All the companies you mentioned also made cost effective SSDs and the user reviews were bad. Furthermore, they are more geared towards Chinese market (with good reasons). It is also unfortunately Apple put a brake on using YMTC for iPhones in Chinese market.

          • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 19:31

            @netsurfer: Don't you realise Zhitai/YMTC are from the same company? lol

            Gloway/Hikvision use reasonable grade NAND flash. They are not that far off the OEM.

            Latest Samsung 3DV6 136L is about as good (or just as bad) as the YMTC X2-9060 when it comes to data retention, which is why I use all my 3DV6 drives as back up SSDs now. I typically have no trust issue with Samsung SSDs, just not their latest batch.

            • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 19:43
              +2

              @YRT: YMTC made cost effective grade NAND too, you should know. Certain batches were so bad some SSD makers decided they are just not worth it.

              Zhitai / YMTC SSDs, some of them, even Chinese YouTubers are telling people they are rubbish. You trusted YMTC and you ended up with YMTC X2-9060. You backup data on SSDs with that… That's just silly. Use SSDs with known quality / data retention issue to store data.

              There is too much double standard. It is obvious we cannot tell whether a latest batch of NAND is reliable enough until much later on. YMTC NAND had been overhyped and you are trying to hype it up again. Trusting one particular brand of SSD or NAND maker is just silly. Also, reliability is not just about the NAND.

              • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 20:11

                @netsurfer: YMTC does have KR grade NAND chip which is their version of Spektek. I'm confident the ones above are not KR grades, at least not on the units I have

                No double standard necessary. I mentioned X2-9060 was bad in a post below. The X3-9070 are OK - or just wait until more problems surface

                • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 20:29

                  @YRT:

                  The X3-9070 are OK - or just wait until more problems surface

                  Isn't that my point? Too early to tell. Furthermore, the reality is all storage devices degrade over time and the failure rate increases. It is not just the NAND. Quite often an SSD failed due to lousy circuit design.

                  Let's be honest here, we are still seeing price falling. There are so many SSD deals. The best deals so far are ones where some people managed to get WD SN850X or SN850 pricing error deal honoured by Amazon AU.

        • GordonD on 24/04/2023 - 19:13
          +1

          data back up is a MUST with any SSD

          You imply SSDs are unreliable. The evidence is well and truly in on that subject. HDDs have a U-shaped curve for reliability. They have a moderate chance of failing quickly due to manufacturing faults. But once those are weeded out they become quite reliable for about 3 years, then faults due to age and wear start occurring increasingly often. SSDs show the same initial reliability rates, a moderate number falling off to almost none. But they don't show the same increasing rate of faults after 3 years.

          So ALL storage devices need back up, but SSDs need it less than HDDs. They remain quite reliable for considerably longer.

          If your SSDs are less reliable than a HDD would be, you are buying the wrong SSDs.

          • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 19:35

            @GordonD: These no name brands tend to use lower grade NAND.

            Your statistics are fine, though when SSDs fail, they tend to fail hard. Failing SSDs have little chance of data recovery just remember this for your own good.

          • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 19:36

            @GordonD: While some of YRT's comments are bending the truth at best, the unreliability of SSDs, especially for cold data storage, is valid.

            There are known SSD models which are essentially ticking time-bombs. Latest Samsung and WD NVMe flagship SSDs both need firmware updates. I have multiple SSDs which died and ZERO of them managed to achieve more than 1.5 TBW. The infamous Samsung 840 suffered really painful slow data read before it just died. One of my SSDs (which was a Chinese made SSD BUT with Samsung NAND) was actually used quite often, but I had to go interstate for 2 weeks and when I returned, completely dead. My Sandisk Extreme has re-allocated sectors within a year. My oldest SSD has a SSD health of 63% (due to wear level being quite high). Kingston… boy… that one really turned out to be a time-bomb.

            To be fair, don't rely on brand name, zero of the SSD makers has perfect record. There is also swap swap swap. I have same model of SSDs with different components (different performance).

            Data backup is a MUST with any SSD, but I will add that it is the same for HDD or any other storage. Multiple backup on different storage media type is a must for important data.

  • YRT on 24/04/2023 - 16:50
    -1

    BTW, I now run YMTC on all our main PCs, very happy sticking it to Samsung, SanDisk and IMFT ;)

    • minijumbuk on 24/04/2023 - 17:32
      +5

      Cool…good luck

  • Aureus on 24/04/2023 - 17:06
    +10

    Competition is good, but I don't think I trust "fanxiang" over Samsung. Better to pay more for a known brand.

    • Smokingkills on 24/04/2023 - 17:45
      -1

      You should quote "Samsung" too. They're both just romanised east asian languages =)

      • wormarts on 24/04/2023 - 17:46

        They should rename to Fanjung. That will make a lot of people feel safer 😂

    • getit on 24/04/2023 - 18:07
      +2

      I think the existence and development of YMTC is the main reason for Samsung SSD dropped half price. We should respect and appreciate it

    • wtran168 on 24/04/2023 - 21:54

      Depends….I don't know about their washing machines. My house could be gone by trusting it.

  • minijumbuk on 24/04/2023 - 17:31
    +4

    No thanks

  • incipient on 24/04/2023 - 17:50
    +7

    The concept of "sticking it" to a country and their broad set of rules, which those same rules allow you to do said "sticking it" to actions, by supporting a country that actively and oppressively crushes any "sticking it" to action…seems ironic to the point of idiocy. Has our education system really failed that badly?

    • MasterScythe on 24/04/2023 - 20:54
      +1

      Each states syllabus is publicly available.

      I dont think anywhere teaches international politics as part of school.

      So, no, I dont think its a reflection on a failed system, just a missed subject.

  • BlinkyBill on 24/04/2023 - 18:28

    Looks like the S660 2TB is USD 78.00 as well not bad, not bad.

  • aaronsd on 24/04/2023 - 18:50

    Oh man, I am going to need to pick up some PCI-E cards that let you stick 4x NVME drives per card at this rate…

  • bloomingheck on 24/04/2023 - 18:59
    +6

    Terrible SSD with no chance of support. Who would buy this when much cheaper and better options are available????

  • GordonD on 24/04/2023 - 19:04

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCil5pb1Sik

    Fanxiang S770 SSD 2TB fake SSD. Less than 4GB/s on PCI3.0.

    • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 19:56
      -1

      The guy who did that video doesn't know tech well. No PCIe gen 4 x4 SSD can run at PCIe gen 4 mode on a PCIe 3.0 slot.

      That review is pretty useless.

  • AircraftFreight on 24/04/2023 - 19:10
    +1

    Forgot to edit out the referral link for Amazon.

    PSA: Do not buy this drive, had one of these models (not sure about P/N) and within a month it broke down. Support basically told me that they cant help me and was offered a new unit at full cost. Quality was (profanity) and had recognition issues in the BIOS on numerous occasions.

    Buy this instead - https://www.amazon.com.au/Kingston-PCIe-Solid-State-Drive/dp…

    • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 19:41

      NV2 has component lottery though.

      • AircraftFreight on 24/04/2023 - 20:39
        -2

        Not really, bought one to replace this (profanity) show. Working well in my Razer Blade 15.

        • netsurfer on 24/04/2023 - 23:08
          -1

          It's a fact, I have 2 versions of NV2 1TB. Tom's Hardware indicated there are 3 different possible controllers and QLC versions do exist since late last year.

          My concern is that we may be able to pick which batch we want by visiting retail stores, but when it comes to warranty later on down the track, we won't be able to. To be fair though, heaps of SSDs have component swap issues.

  • 4ustralian on 24/04/2023 - 19:28

    Sound like a chinese chinese brand to me. Will cost your fortune.

  • Tamagotchi Breeder on 24/04/2023 - 19:55
    +1

    Terrible support and an average product, would steer clear of this for better brands at similar prices, failing to see the deal here.

  • dr on 24/04/2023 - 20:00

    @Moderators can you clean up the war mongering bullshit in this thread. Lets keep the politics outside of the bargains

    • bloomingheck on 24/04/2023 - 20:46
      +3

      If anything the OP has a lot to answer for in terms of "war mongering BS" as you put it. Face it, this is a crap deal and there is no bargain

      • dr on 25/04/2023 - 01:21
        -1

        I'll trust your word that this is a crap deal, and my comment was not about the quality of the deal. Warmongering BS I was referring to were comments from Bargainian in particular and MagnamoniousRex to some extent.

  • CoreJava on 25/04/2023 - 01:19
    -1

    Thanks Op. Buying this to support the chinese.

  • Wrongguy on 25/04/2023 - 11:02
    +4

    All the china stuff aside, why would you risk $180+ for $10-20 saving? This is a company that most of us have heard for the first time while there are plenty of well reviewed & tested alternatives available, why even bother? I get it that it is cheaper but the risk is probably bigger than the reward

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