Improper Retention of Information by Dental Practitioner

LWintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 13:52

Why is it that some dentists will ask you for a whole list of patient details including name, address, date of birth, phone number; whilst others just need a name and phone number?

Is there something to be seem here because for one, it is improper to store information even if it is for marketing purposes. You should only be allowed to retain information that is required to do your job as a dental professional.

ADA Guidelines

3.4 Dentists are only permitted to collect personal information which is necessary for their lawful functions and
activities as a dentist

Basically, I'm looking at these bodies to see if they will create guidelines created for dental professionals:
Office of the Australian Information Commissioner
National Health Practitioner Ombudsman
Australian Dental Association
Dental Board of Australia

I'm fairly certain there are already guidelines in place but a lot of medical professionals seem to be clueless about the privacy implications of keeping . This dentist I met today was very smug about needing to keep details, but I just went up the street a few meters and got my teeth cleaned for a cheaper price without having to divulge any other details.

It's ridiculous that the medical profession cannot be held accountable. I mean why do you need all these details, as long as the details are consistent and that can be cross-referenced to that particular patient and are consistent then there is no reason to be collecting irrelevant material, especially if there is no claim and the patient is paying with cash. I know I could just provide fake details and that would be feasible but that's not something I want to do because that could ultimately blow back on me because of my profession.

I know every dentist wants these details so they can send you a sms or a card to tell you to come clean your teeth, but that is for marketing and it seriously begs the question why does our society allow this information be collected, improperly stored and then hacked. Why don't we move to a system where you retain the minimal amount of information to provide the services that are required? It is improper and the only reason why they are collecting it is because of marketing, and they try to make you look stupid when you ask them about why they are storing it on a piece of paper and then entering into their computer whilst others would just shred the paper after inputting into the computer. Why do they not care about physical security and informational security? It's ridiculous.

Health & Beauty

Comments

  • jv on 11/04/2023 - 13:53
    +2

    it is improper to store information

    No it's not.

  • jv on 11/04/2023 - 13:55
    +3

    improperly stored

    How do you know it is improperly stored?

    • elgrande on 11/04/2023 - 14:44
      +3

      The form was balancing on the edge of a shelf

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:39

      Could be construed as improper collected/stored at the same time if it wasn't actually required to do their job?

      That's an opinion, and seems to be correct because some dentists will just ignore the need to request extraneous information. That seems to be a big red flag for those who are actually collecting it for the purpose of marketing to their clients, providing birthday specials and so on….

      This is argued to some extent below with ozbargainer freefall

  • jv on 11/04/2023 - 13:56
    +2

    Why do they not care about physical security and informational security?

    How do you know they don't care?

  • jv on 11/04/2023 - 13:57
    +1

    Do you usually show them your copy of the Charter of Human Rights every time you visit your dentist?

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:46
      +1

      Well, ask yourself the question whether that is required?

      No, because depends on the relevancy of it. If the way the data is being stored is not up to standard and you get the vibes about it then why not ask a few questions?

      The problem is with the way some of the professionals treat you. It's like they shout when medibank gets hacked, but they turn a blind eye when its regarding themselves.

      For one the dentist I am concerned with had details basically shown facing anyone sitting in the lie flat seat. Computers should not be positioned in such a manner. So, that was my red flag if anyone thought I was taking this too far. If you can't even do that properly, damn, I doubt the dentist was taking anyone's privacy seriously. The guy was logged in as well, at least lock the screen or something if you aren't using it, so it's not just this one thing that I have a problem with. It's the whole package that smelled bad.

      • jv on 11/04/2023 - 15:55
        -1

        Well, ask yourself the question whether that is required?

        Why?

        • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 16:07
          +1

          Nevermind, reading through your comments I have found there was a breach of 4.4 of ADA guidelines

          All computers should be password protected and screen visibility limited to staff members only.

          You learn something everyday.

          • LeoDMD on 01/07/2023 - 16:45

            @Wintry Golem: Guidelines are just that - guidelines.
            Also, half of the dentists in Australia are not members of the ADA, so there's that as well … :)

            • Speckled Jim on 02/07/2023 - 10:39

              @LeoDMD: Wintry Golem

              Member Since
              01/04/2023
              Last Seen
              19/04/2023
              Statistics
              1 posts / 43 comments

              Suspect they trolled and departed.

  • spackbace on 11/04/2023 - 14:10
    +7

    Why is it that some dentists will ask you for a whole list of patient details including name, address, date of birth, phone number; whilst others just need a name and phone number?

    It literally tells you in the article you linked to!

    Content of dental records
    (a) Patient details
    Sufficient information to identify and communicate with the patient should be recorded, including:
    (i) identifying details of the patient (including full name, sex, date of birth and address, including email and telephone number); and
    (ii) the current medical history of the patient, including any adverse drug reactions

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 14:43

      Well that's the thing; is that information required to do their job?

      Furthermore, it can be construed that the including part is not actually required… Note the language used.

  • spackbace on 11/04/2023 - 14:14
    +1

    It is improper and the only reason why they are collecting it is because of marketing

    No, it's not, it's so that history can be documented etc. It's the whole reason for having a My Health Record database, so everyone can consult your health history in one easy place and see what could be going on, if there's a trend or history, monitor drug prescriptions etc.

  • EightImmortals on 11/04/2023 - 14:18
    +3

    Welcome to Australia. How long have you been here?

  • AustriaBargain on 11/04/2023 - 14:18
    +2

    I bet some will ask you to fill the big form out again just to make sure the info is correct. Info changes over time and if they are missing your current number or address or emergency contact it could be a bit of a hassle if you die on the chair or can't pay your bill after a big operation. And "dental records" are a thing, they might be obliged to keep all the info up to date if they need to identify your body if you get Uncle Owen'd.

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 14:43
      -1

      Yeah I see that but for someone who is paying on the spot, why is there a need to store this information?

      I don't see how the whole corpse thing is relevant to me or my family.

      • AustriaBargain on 11/04/2023 - 14:49
        +2

        If a burned out corpse was found in your car then they would find your dentist, and presumably the dentist would need to have your current details to be found. In the movies they just say they compare dental records to the corpse teeth, they don't show us how they find out who your past dentists were.

  • Baysew on 11/04/2023 - 14:33
    +9

    Wait till the OP tries to join OzBargain premium.

    • MS Paint on 11/04/2023 - 14:37
      +8

      I have often wondered why ozbargain premium required my tax file number and apple password but it's worth the risk IMHO.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 11/04/2023 - 14:47
        +2

        Don't forget the super secret password that is printed on the back of your credit card.

      • sam-1966 on 11/04/2023 - 15:54
        +2

        …and your dental records…

  • freefall101 on 11/04/2023 - 14:33

    Basically, I'm looking at these bodies to see if they will create guidelines created for dental professionals

    You mean the guidelines you linked to in your own post?

    This is one hell of a rant when you already found your own answer then decided to ignore it and keep ranting. Also any dentist worth their salt will gather enough information to identify your correctly. Because they are the ones who actually understand data security, that you are able to request your dental records and they need to prove who you are before giving it to you, and that there is more than one John Smith in the world.

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 14:49
      +1

      Yeah, but note the wording included… Due to the nature of how its worded I would interpret it as not mandatory… Especially the part where it states including email and phone number.

      I think that's where we differ in opinions.

      • freefall101 on 11/04/2023 - 14:59

        I think we differ in opinions in thinking that keeping your phone number and/or email is even a remotely big deal. They don't have to, but it's going to make it a hell of a lot easier to comply with other laws if they do so. And they clearly have a much better idea on data security than you.

        Joe Blow walks into your dentist office and says they want your records. You have left no contact details on record. Dentist is required to release your records upon request. What do they do?

        • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:02

          Where does it state that?

          Well, anyway even if they disclose it, the third party cannot identify you. So that's a moot point.

          Furthermore, I disagree with your contention that a small business owner who is a dentist would have any professional knowledge about cybersecurity. They are just using some proprietary software. In fact I was sitting right in front of the computer at the first dentist (to be differentiated from the second one) I visited today who shall remain un-named unless they want to publicly show themselves. They had all their bookings listed on the screen and possibly other private details.

          • freefall101 on 11/04/2023 - 15:07
            +1

            @Wintry Golem: Wait, so them having your phone number and email address, which is generally very easy to get information, is outrageous but handing out your dental records is a moot point?

            Your concept of what should be protected personal information is bonkers - it's also not even remotely in line with the law.

            Anyway, section 4.9 details where they need to hand it over, it's also required by Australian Privacy Law.

            • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:09

              @freefall101: Well considering how easy you state it is for them to hand over that information. You would think they should not be retaining so much…

              Look I wouldn't be worried about deidentified records floating around, especially if there is no way to pinpoint it back to any particular person. What I'm upset with is that identifiable records are regularly dumped onto the dark web because of inadequate provisions taken by the medical profession.

              So they know my name and phone number which if I was smart I would have got a burner one, but the less information out there the better. Why do people still want to be on the side of collecting everything and worry later? Maybe because they have liability protection from the statutes…. We need to remove this liability exemption to ensure privacy standards can be met for clients that require it.

              Also 4.9 (d) has an exemption. If the provider thinks the person requesting is unlikely to be the true person or it is too easily divulged to some stranger they can just ignore the request. What information do they need to actually store that a new x-ray couldn't give the dental professional?

              That's where we need to clarify things.

              Why do we allow them to collect this information which is basically used for marketing and not actually to provide a service? Obviously I think even a phone number is too much, but yet I volunteered it because it was the lesser of the two evils and there was actually a dentist willing to clean my teeth on reasonable terms. (Obviously, it can be implied that the dentist will use it for pinging me every 6 months)

              Realistically the issue is actually bigger as your whole dental records are tied to your identity. This is not just about some DOB, address, location data, sexual orientation or other information being leaked… So, it's actually even more important, but yet the profession doesn't do anything to protect its clients who want privacy. A portable DIY implementation of MyHealth would have been a better deal but sadly that never eventuated. That way I retain all my records and I take it whereever I want with me.

              I'm not against storing medical records…

              I'd even be for that MyGov thing that people hate, Digital ID, where you can provide information without actually providing it. Something the conspiracy theorists hate it, but it's the better of the solutions we have at the moment. This is because that digital id thing if implemented properly will ultimately empower privacy; if implemented poorly it might not be.

              • freefall101 on 11/04/2023 - 16:59

                @Wintry Golem: We only need to clarify things because you don't want to give your phone number to your dentist and feel the rules should be written to handle what is a really weird position to take.

                Dentists are bound by law to protect your information. Sure, they theoretically could collect less data and make their lives harder but it's absolutely insane that you're picking dentists of all things to have a rant about because they send you a text message every 6 months because we have a global issue with data retention, leaks and verification.

                A portable DIY implementation of MyHealth is useless for pretty much every scenario when it's most useful. Drug addicts, emergencies, dementia patients, they benefit from an accessible version of MyHealth. If you're fine and lucid, you can just tell the doctor your medical history.

  • MS Paint on 11/04/2023 - 14:39
    +6

    I know I could just provide fake details and that would be feasible but that's not something I want to do because that could ultimately blow back on me because of my profession

    I will personally guarantee that no one has ever lost their job because they provided fake details to their dentist.

    WTAF are you banging on about dude?

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 14:48

      Alright, I guess you are right about that. I've never heard of someone suffer the problem myself, but typically it's more an ethical issue.

      • SBOB on 11/04/2023 - 16:31
        +1

        but typically it's more an ethical issue.

        the guy who just reads other peoples computer screens is worried about ethical behavior?

    • onetwothreefour on 11/04/2023 - 14:49

      That's probably because most people with a job don't give fake details to a dentist.

      • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 14:51
        +1

        Yeah that's why I want to do everything by the book. It seems weird that everyone complains about privacy but then they take no actions to prevent anything bad happening…

        I'm not against collecting the information if it can be stored properly, but most of the time there is no legal remedy for hacked data because like real estate agents, there is a list of exempt professions.

        • freefall101 on 11/04/2023 - 15:00

          There's a list of exempt professions from providing data security? Care to share this list?

          • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:24

            @freefall101: I'll try find it. I saw it on the newspaper during the medibank leaks. I think it's a legislative instrument.

            https://www.smh.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/as-a-hostag…

            A review of the privacy law is working its way through government, but these breaches need to turbocharge that passage, with reforms no later than early next year. Bipartisan support for broadening definitions for what our personal information is, requiring meaningful consent for its collection, removing exemptions that feed many businesses including, bizarrely, real estate agents, from data privacy are no longer tenable. We also need to create concrete rights for citizens to assert their right of privacy through the courts.

            Apparently there but I need to look at the actual legislation. Sorry, can't find information at a moment's notice but I will also need to do more research and possibly write a whitepaper or something to provide recommendations because the current situation is untenable in my opinion..

            This is actually a serious problem.

            I don't know why but I can't see to find a direct source for it, but there it is in the newspaper…. Weird. I'm currently doing keyword searches in any relevant privacy legislation, but maybe it's named something obscure.

            • freefall101 on 11/04/2023 - 16:53

              @Wintry Golem: Because it's an opinion piece from someone at a think tank stirring the pot. That's not the only thing wrong with that crap piece of writing, privacy laws in this country have been overhauled several times.

              But specifically for real estate agents - https://legalvision.com.au/australian-privacy-principles-imp…

              I think you need to chill out and make sure the basics of what you're saying here are correct, because much of what you're saying has little basis in reality.

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 11/04/2023 - 14:49
      +1

      WTAF are you banging on about dude?

      I blame the lunchtime cones……and no, I'm not talking Macca's softserve.

  • GordonD on 11/04/2023 - 14:51

    When your dentist is asked by the police or coroner to use their records to put a name and address on your remains is when you see why they ask for a lot more identifying information than would seem necessary just to check your teeth.

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 14:55

      Well, that's the problem I see… That's why you can't provide fake information, otherwise you might come up as someone else. I have no information whether this whole dental records thing is reliable, maybe it isn't because DNA is not actually reliable because I've seen people who got denied permanent residency because of a DNA test.

      Apparently the government thought they were their cousin but statistically speaking the DNA test itself has room for error.

      I'm not going to comment on the accuracy of any such tool, but suppose I don't want to be part of that system, the ability to opt out whilst not interfering with the rest of the system should be applauded, not vilified because currently the system is setup to reward dishonesty if someone really needs to opt out. (Note I am assuming those types will ultimately be lazy and not walk around to find another dentist.)

      • jv on 11/04/2023 - 15:42
        +3

        DNA is not actually reliable

        🤣🤣🤣

        How do you exist then ?

    • Roman Sandstorm on 11/04/2023 - 17:58

      @GordonD

      When your dentist is asked by the police or coroner to use their records to put a name and address on your remains

      This is not the best counter argument to the OP.

      Honestly, how many times would this occur in a country of 26 million each year? Probably happens more often on TV.

      Also, as someone else has also mentioned, how reliable is such 'dental records' information anyway? A hell of a lot is accepted in 'forensic science' which is neither forensic, nor science,.

      • CurlCurl on 11/04/2023 - 18:48

        Also, as someone else has also mentioned, how reliable is such 'dental records' information anyway? A hell of a lot is accepted in 'forensic science' which is neither forensic, nor science,.

        Citation required not just rumour and innuendo on Facebook.

  • Geillis on 11/04/2023 - 14:51
    +1

    Dentists have a professional and a legal obligation to maintain clinically relevant, accurate and contemporaneous dental records of their patients.
    there it is, in the 1st paragraph of the ADA guidelines.
    So you went up the street and saw somebody who was not prepared to comply with the law. I hope they were qualified.

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 14:56
      -1

      Definitely qualified… They did comply with the law. They maintained an accurate record, there was no misinformation given because they never asked for any more information. (Accurate minimalistic records is what the medical profession should strive for)…

      Notably I am trying to find the actual legislation that provides for the dental records quote rather than the "including" guideline which is not a requirement.

      If included was a legal requirement, then email and phone number would be compulsory, but that cannot be true. I don't know any dentist I've been to that has my email address… Does yours? Even the one I went to originally today did not ask for my email, that means they breached according to your argument…

      That can't be right.

  • mrkorrupt on 11/04/2023 - 14:59
    +2

    I bet you OP will be the one complaining when the dentist didn't leave a record and something went wrong and the dentist shrugs and says he doesn't know OP

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:51

      Yeah, so they should be happy that I'm not requiring them to retain too much information as it removes liability from them.

      It's ridiculous that the option isn't there to help the dentist and help the client too. Win win.

      I'm not stating everyone needs to opt into this system, but the ability to opt out needs to be there. It seems like you can already opt out by finding another dentist, but it's just nuts that more people aren't aware of it.

      If you are buying extras on an annual basis then hand in your ozbargain license, most people here I would think would be interested in the opt out scenario purely because of this basis. Whether they actually take it up is another question.

      • happydude on 11/04/2023 - 16:06

        the ability to opt out needs to be there

        You have already managed that. You didn't like a policy and went to another dentist.

        The system works.

        it's just nuts that more people aren't aware of it.

        Aware of what? That when they fill out a form it gets recorded somewhere?

  • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2023 - 15:22
    +3

    Next time, claim that you're a 'sovereign citizen'

    • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:51
      +1

      Relevance?

      • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2023 - 15:53

        So that you don't have to provide your personal details. Isn't that your issue?

        • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 15:54
          +1

          That's only half of the problem. How it's stored is also relevant, but you'll need to see the additional information I provided later whilst commenting with others such as freefall, jv.

          BTW If we had Digital ID, the mygov thing, maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed because that information only links properly if your Digital ID is present or something along the lines of that. So I'm definitely not in the anti-log, pure privacy camp.

          Maybe that will be the solution considering the profession is not taking the concerns seriously? Seriously, how often do companies get hacked these days. Do small businesses even know if they got hacked? Probably not.

          • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2023 - 16:26

            @Wintry Golem: Unfortunately, most businesses - big & small - don't take privacy seriously until such time as their systems are hacked. Their ability to know whether they've been hacked depends upon what controls they've implemented (or not, as the case may be) to safeguard and detect both authorised and unauthorised access.

            If you feel strongly that there is no reason for a business to record certain personal information then challenge it. I picked up a C&C order at a TGG store last year and the customer in front of me objected to the SA taking note of her licence number as proof that it was sighted before handing over her C&C order. It escalated to the point that the manager was called over however I was served by another SA in the meantime, who funnily enough, didn't note down my licence number.

          • DoctorCalculon on 11/04/2023 - 20:36

            @Wintry Golem:

            Digital ID, the mygov thing

            How do you know with absolute certainty that these digital repositories themselves are completely secure?

  • sam-1966 on 11/04/2023 - 15:56
    +2

    Maybe Wintry Golem is also a dentist and is the one that recommends toothbrushes in commercials - the one that cannot be identified?

  • Wintry Golem on 11/04/2023 - 16:10
    +1

    I think I'm done with discussing it, others can chime in on which bodies will be best suited to write to.

    The profession needs to up their game. Stop being scared when someone asks a privacy related question. You aren't being sued or anything. It might even bloody save your firm from having a really bad PR incident in the future…

    Sure prima facie it looks like you are being confronted by a conspiracy theorist sovereign citizen, but underneath it you just need to calm down and breathe. Answer the questions that the client asks you….

    • spackbace on 11/04/2023 - 16:12
      +5

      but underneath it you just need to calm down and breathe.

      Oh the irony

    • happydude on 11/04/2023 - 16:12
      +4

      Sure prima facie it looks like you are being confronted by a conspiracy theorist sovereign citizen

      If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 11/04/2023 - 17:08
        +1

        If OP weighs the same as a duck… OP's made of wood!
        And therefore……
        …..A witch!

  • CurlCurl on 11/04/2023 - 16:31

    I take blood thinners and BP tablets plus other heart tablets. All needed to be disclosed to the dentist, the surgeon when my cataracts were removed and before a Covid vaccination.

    Guess I'm screwed having that filed in their computers.

  • Mad Max on 11/04/2023 - 18:47
    +1

    OP is right. Everywhere you go they want your data. Name, surname, address, dob, mobile number, email address.
    From loyalty cards to hotels to appliance shops etc.
    Why do they need it? Not certainly for your benefit.
    And when (not if) they get hacked they just apologise and not much happens.
    OP you are trying to convince people that happily give away all their details to get a $5 freebie! Let them be.
    Each to his own.

    • spackbace on 11/04/2023 - 18:51

      OzBargain thanks you for your email address and IP

      • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2023 - 18:56
        +1

        Not all IP addresses thanks to VPN

    • DoctorCalculon on 11/04/2023 - 20:42

      Everywhere you go they want your data

      Who said you need to give them your real name? When asked just say your name is Wintry Golem.
      So, you can still enjoy your $5 freebies even if the business gets pwned in the future.

  • Bafranz on 11/04/2023 - 18:48

    Sensitive dental information? Needs sensodyne

  • Deridas on 11/04/2023 - 19:47
    +1

    Member Since
    01/04/2023

    Another day, another rant.
    It's fine to go on forum boards to have a point. It's fine for almost 100% of the replies to be against your point of view. Normally when the whole world is against me, I look within myself and try and see the fault of my reasoning. Otherwise there is no learning and no growth.

    I hope OP does grow and learn, it's not usual almost 100% of the opinions and posts are against your original rant, generally it means there is an issue with your rant that you are blinded to.

    • Mad Max on 11/04/2023 - 20:12
      +1

      “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD), Roman Emperor, Stoic philosopher
      By definition, if you want to create something extraordinary you've got to leave the majority.

      • Deridas on 11/04/2023 - 20:20
        +2

        Yes, you are correct.

        However, generally you proceed down the path of "leaving the majority" only after a really mature introspect consideration and understanding of one's self/position, weighing up the pros and cons, and after a lot of thought continue on that path.

        OP's rant/point of view unfortunately doesn't seem to be onto something extraordinary.

  • Waltervp on 12/04/2023 - 08:22

    I always get annoyed at places where they have all your information and still ask you everything again and again. Are their records so bad that the hospital needs to see your medicard card a million times? The world is data and meta mad. Often it is legal or perceived legal obligations they are trying to fullfil, dumb procedures mostly but they may also stop accidental errors and ocasionally make life easier, like seatbelts that are not needed 99.99% of the time but you wouldnt want to be caught in an accident without them.

    Life is like a monopoly game, not always fair but you have to pay by the rules fir good reasons….

  • OzBargainGirl on 12/04/2023 - 10:12

    So what information do you propose that is necessary for dentists to hold on file about you?

    Name only?
    Phone? so they can contact you in case they need to follow up
    Address? do you pay your bills on time
    Date of birth? In case they have sixteen Do's on file, or fifteen Smith's?

    Anything else?

  • Wintry Golem on 12/04/2023 - 10:51
    +1

    So I should clarify the actual sequence of events was me entering the clinic, then I was asked for my name. My phone number they already had because of the booking requirement which isn't that bad in a sense as long as it isn't tied to other information. Upon request of further information, I queried why do you need this? I already knew that this information was not required because to actually do their job it was never a requirement.

    Never at any time was there any mention about why the data requested would be retained. He flated refused to answer the question, not any information even the manner in which it would be maintained except for a few quick words regarding the computer which was in full view of any client… I didn't even get to ask, but I already kind of know that they were not well equipped to answer the questions anyway.

    You shouldn't even have a medical license if you cannot explain what you are doing and why you are retaining information on a client… I could taken this further and I seem to have possibly received a harassment call from this dentist but I will act civil and draft a cease and desist letter first.

    If the dentist is reading this, I don't know what CRM you were using but purple entries and patient information being visible… Hmmm.. I think you really need a hard think and look at yourself. Have you acted professionally?

    Again if we look at some guidelines from the American Dental Association, they have specific guidelines that location data be kept separate from other identifying medical records… But hey, I guess most dentists don't really have a clue; that I don't have a problem with; but you don't go vilifying the client for asking questions. Questions which affect everyone.

    I'm still tossing up on whether it is a public interest issue to name this Dentist, as other client's information might be at risk.

    • CurlCurl on 12/04/2023 - 11:27
      +1

      I'm still tossing up on whether it is a public interest issue to name this Dentist, as other client's information might be at risk.

      Bet you are the life of a party. I think you should take a chill pill and get on with your life.

      BTW. Did you join Whirpool and post you rant there?

    • happydude on 12/04/2023 - 12:54

      I could taken this further and I seem to have possibly received a harassment call from this dentist but I will act civil and draft a cease and desist letter first.

      Please expand on this? The dentist called and has harassed you…. possibly? I have to know!

      You are sending a cease and desist letter and call that acting civil?

      • CurlCurl on 12/04/2023 - 13:37

        possibly? I have to know!

        Gluten for punishment hey!

  • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2023 - 10:57

    Again if we look at some guidelines from the American Dental Association, they have specific guidelines that location data be kept separate from other identifying medical records

    Did you go to a dentist in America or Australia?

    • CurlCurl on 12/04/2023 - 11:28
      +1

      Must have been the USA as he spelt it license.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2023 - 11:51

        Good to know that OzB has such an international reach. 'Murica must be lacking for their own home grown online forums.

  • Speckled Jim on 13/04/2023 - 08:54

    ADA Guidelines

    Which, by definition aren't enforceable as they're just guidelines.
    Tell ya what, it's a free(ish) market. Read online reviews to get an idea of the data-hoarders, then avoid them.

    /thread

  • OzBargainGirl on 13/04/2023 - 15:35

    To safely identify a patient, you need at least three points of references - name, phone number and address are examples; or name, address, date of birth.

    It is completely logical to be asked about a telephone number, should any issues arise, so that the dentist may promptly contact you.

    If you need clarification why they are hold your information, I suggest writing to them, so they spend the time explaining why they need each item, instead of angrily venting for no reason at all.

    Outcome: you are still unhappy and holding a grudge.

  • Wintry Golem on 14/04/2023 - 20:33

    Update: Harassment calls have stopped.

    Futhermore, I have done a bit of walking around to dentists in my area + neighbouring suburbs and have found some clinics also asking for random details such as Occupation… I'm not sure what the point of that is except to check the credit worthiness of someone, and possibly to provide discounts… i.e. If you are a student then you should declare it, but everyone else technically shouldn't.

    When queried at it, they said you can leave that blank. That seriously made my heart drop a bit, but that means if you are uncomfortable with that information being disclosed, then you don't have to disclose it!

    I'm hoping this raises awareness of the issues regarding dental practices in Australia…

    I'm all for volunteering information if you expect it will give you a discount, but it's not like you are running a dating agency. I will go off on a tangent here and state that maybe one of the workers there is also utilising this to target high netwealth individuals to find a partner. lol. That would be a conspiracy theory though. ha.

    Anyway, hope everyone learns something that all of this because frankly I don't think anything will change for a long time. Eventually we will have a digital ID and we can probably thank all these professionals for bringing it about because frankly I don't see how we can live in a world where data is only requested and stored as required.

    If you find there are unacceptable practices at your local dentist, the best you can do is probably not to raise it because that will likely make them think you are toxic. God forbid it leads to poor dental outcomes…. So, you have been warned!!! The only way to fix this problem is to walk with your feet to another dentist…

    I'm not going to have time to reply to everyone's comments, but I have taken note of some comments that are helpful constructive criticism.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/04/2023 - 20:54

      I'm hoping this raises awareness of the issues regarding dental practices in Australia…

      Genuine question: Why do you need to specify: 'in Australia' when you're on an Australian website?

    • CurlCurl on 16/04/2023 - 20:11

      Anyway, hope everyone learns something that all of this because frankly I don't think anything will change for a long time.

      I've learnt that some people just rave on and on and on about bloody nothing.

    • spackbace on 17/04/2023 - 13:14

      I will go off on a tangent here and state that maybe one of the workers there is also utilising this to target high netwealth individuals to find a partner. lol.

      Dude… wtf

  • OzBargainGirl on 15/04/2023 - 11:24

    Hi Wintry,

    Such a long thread about nothing.

    I do not have MS Paint, but this is what I will try and draw in writing to you.

    Just because someone asks you something, does not mean that you need or want to do it.

    a) Simple verbal example when approached: Would you like to marry me/go out with me/sleep with me/go out on a date with me?
    Answer: 'No'.
    No is a complete sentence.

    b) Simple written answer when approached for collection of information at a dentist:
    You bring your pen, and you write your name, surname, DOB (or year of birth only), address, telephone number.
    This is what you fill out for all the other fields:
    Occupation: ——————————————————————————————— (you run the line to the end of page)
    Next of kin: ———————————————————————————————-(you run the line to the end of page)
    Contact details of next of kin:———————————————————— (you run the line to the end of page) or you insert 000
    Then you write in big fat bold letters across the page: NO CONSENT GIVEN FOR ADVERTISING COMMUNICATION
    Allergies: none (if that is the case)
    Any medications that affect the bleeding: you declare it, so you do not bleed to death. Being alive is a priority.
    Would you be interested in such and such program? NO.

    Everything else: ——————————————————————————————
    and

    Then you ask for a photocopy of your information, so that you always have it on file re: what you declared,
    and you ask for a copy of their privacy policy.

    Everything in hard copy.

    You're welcome.

  • Wintry Golem on 17/04/2023 - 10:35

    Today, Australian's received bad news associated with Medibank's compensation claims.

    Privacy starts with the consumers.

    I'm now beginning to think that people did not seriously think the government would come in and help did they?

    • CurlCurl on 17/04/2023 - 13:28

      Today, Australian's received bad news associated with Medibank's compensation claims.

      Privacy starts with the consumers.

      I'm now beginning to think that people did not seriously think the government would come in and help did they?

      Jesus. You still here?

      • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2023 - 16:28

        Jesus. You still here?

        He has (recently) risen

  • Dack Smith on 17/04/2023 - 12:25

    Personal data is a treasure that’s highly sought after - are you sure they’re not selling it to the highest bidder?

    I wonder if their security systems can defeat hacking?

    Dentists make a ton of cash so perhaps they have invested in proper security?

  • AS2035 on 19/04/2023 - 20:33

    Depending on the state where you live.

    if in NSW

    1. HCCC provide all the documents and I mean ALL
    2. they forward it to HPCA
    3. HPCA takes it to the Dental Council
    4. Dental Council investigate and and if valid take it further
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