PSA/Rant: I Think KrisFlyer Is Overrated

strongzero on 27/03/2023 - 22:24
Last edited 27/03/2023 - 22:24

Krisflyer is over rated.

Following the recent deal post about St George amplify signature.

I have to say; I believe Krisflyer has to be one of the most overrated ff schemes in australia.

Here’s why:

  1. Lack of saver award availability out of australia via their own program.

Points collectors churn damn hard to earn their points, but Krisflyer makes redeeming them incredibly frustrating. Offering up the expensive “advantage” tickets and withholding all the saver fares.

Same goes for availability in F, there is absolutely no saver availability in f (on the a380), unless you want to take your chances and wait list. But then you’re locking your hard churned points into KF.

  1. RTW tickets are a massive PITA to book, and they attract hefty booking fees.

  2. Partners have plenty of saver availability on SQ metal that simply isn’t available when booking through KF.

  3. Redemptions are even that cheap

  4. Why bother transiting through Changi when you could redeem asia miles and fly direct to your destination, for a more reasonable redemption.

  5. Miles have an hard expiry.

I’m curious to hear your thoughts OzBargain. I know it’s a bit of a demented post, but I thought I’d do the community a favour and share my experience to prevent any fellow ozbargainers suffering the same disappointment.

Poll Options

  • 9
    KF is the best option for churners in australia
  • 9
    I don’t have any experience with KF
  • 25
    KF is overrated
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Comments

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 27/03/2023 - 22:42
    +4

    We have been earning and using KF points (plus a range of other programs) for the last two decades. I flew my first FC flight in 2005 with them when they still had 747s in operation. Since then, flown over a dozen times in their A380 suites and generally had no issue getting seats if booked far out. Always with points, you plan your holiday around the points flights you can secure - and rarely the other way around.

    Post covid changed things. Airlines are making higher revenues than pre-covid and don't need (peasant) points flyers, me included, to fill seats anymore. When people are paying $5k to go to Europe (from Australia) in economy and planes are full, you know why.

    This program isn't for everyone, just like all the other programs are. Unless you are super flexible, and only need 1 or 2 seats, then rarely any program will be worthwhile to you.

    • strongzero on 27/03/2023 - 22:56
      +1

      That’s true, regarding flexibility and booking trips around flights rather than the other way around. (I do book my holidays around my flights though).

      However, I think that overall availability for KF has gone down the toilet in the last twelve or so months.

      Also the fact that you can book SQ metal in biz through Velocity as a saver award, is pretty disappointing imo.

      Read a thread from Singaporean points collectors and they were massively miffed to find out plenty of saver award was available through UA/AC mileage programmes with lower fees and taxes than SQ. Who actually had no availability for that date.

      I’m not saying SQ has a bad product, they don’t it is one of the best, and definitely the best departing australia.

      I just think the hype surrounding KF within the points collecting community in australia is strange, considering all their pitfalls (lack of decent availability, hard to acquire, expensive (points) redemptions.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 27/03/2023 - 23:48
        +2

        It sucks when other programs, whether it is UA/AC/LM/VA/etc offer SQ seats when their "own" KF program does not (in the saver buckets). I call it loosely their own because KF runs kind of separately to SQ and, I would guess, KF pay SQ very little for the seats while UA/AC/VA/etc might pay more - hence better availability.

        KF has been devaluing (i.e increasing points for awards) so quickly that I have lost count. UA used to be my go-to with *A awards (flew TG like >50 times in F and they had good availability to Europe, once we had 4 points ticket on the same flight in F, that was a party).

        But you know, KF has its sweet spot too, and its sometimes the obscure ones that get good value. For example, KF allowed me to fly to Papeete (PPT) 3 times, with Air NZ. Its 25k round trip in economy - and the fares for this route was often in excess of $1200. I found this great value, which meant I could spent more in French Polynesia including Bora Bora.

        • strongzero on 27/03/2023 - 23:58

          The spontaneous escapes and air nz sweet spot(s) to PPT are definitely a big plus of Krisflyer, that’s true. (I’ve actually been eyeing this redemption recently so it’s funny that you mention it.

          Did you have to manually reach out to the KF call centre in order to book, or were you able to book it entirely online?

        • strongzero on 28/03/2023 - 00:00

          Wow, crazy to hear about your four seats in f. That sounds great, I’d kill to book four seats in f on SQ. TG seem to have really suffered through covid, and it seems like they release relatively little premium award space these days though. Do they still have an f cabin? I have to admit I’m not too familiar with tg

          • TheMindsetTraveller on 28/03/2023 - 09:06
            +1

            @strongzero: Those were crazy days when awards seemed much more available, and to experience vintage champagne, caviar service, and lobster with friends facing each other (these were the TG 747 planes pre-mini suites refurb) is a memory that we will have for our lifetime.

            They do fly first, with very limited routes though. And flying only the 77Ws - sadly, they do not fly the A380s anymore and I really enjoyed the airiness of those cabins. Will miss those A380s once they go but been fortunate enough to fly quite a few different cabins (6) in the First cabins.

            For PPT bookings, just check online (e.g SYD - PPT) click search, and then click on Star Alliance.

            Also, another great redemption that we used to book was South Africa to South East Asia and vv. I haven't checked since covid, but it used to be 51k each way in business, so you could have flown CPT-JNB-SIN-BKK all in business, for 51k KF. ALso the new 359 planes.

            • strongzero on 28/03/2023 - 09:55

              @TheMindsetTraveller: Yes, it is a massive shame that the trend towards smaller planes continues. Take the newest VA flight to Tokyo on a 737MAX. I would personally be horrified if I booked that flight expecting a wide body, then to see a 737 at the gate!

              I guess one silver lining of the increase in demand in travel has been that many airlines have brought their a380’s back. If only they’d do it with the queen of the skies.

              TG may still be pulling all the pieces together? Maybe we will see a return of some larger aircraft in the future.

              That sounds like a great redemption on SA airways. I heard they are restarting their route to perth soon, so maybe it is worth exploring in the near future. cheers!

  • deme on 27/03/2023 - 23:01
    -4

    Ok

  • Wiadro on 27/03/2023 - 23:07
    -3

    absolutely inspiration story bro
    i hope you sleep well tonight

  • Qazxswec on 27/03/2023 - 23:09
    -2

    What the (profanity) is a Krisflyer?!!?!

    • Wiadro on 27/03/2023 - 23:10
      +2

      it's a special club for people named kris who fly okay.
      its also known as krises who fly or krises flying

      • Qazxswec on 27/03/2023 - 23:12

        does is have anything to do with the 90's twin rap duo Kris Kross and their hit song "Jump"? did they somehow learn to fly after jumping?

        • Wiadro on 27/03/2023 - 23:13

          absolutely not, its also not related to kris jenner

  • Tee Rex Arms on 27/03/2023 - 23:15

    Not everyone has the luxury to dictate that they’re taking holidays when certain flights suit them

    • strongzero on 27/03/2023 - 23:25

      Hence why KF is not great- there is fantastic award availability through Qantas/Cathay at the moment. Whereas KF which is touted as a more illusive and valuable points currency has much less availability.

      • djkelly69 on 28/03/2023 - 05:46
        +4

        there is fantastic award availability through Qantas/Cathay at the moment.

        Would love to know the basis for this statement.

        • MrThing on 02/04/2023 - 19:47

          drugs……it must be drugs……….it has to be drugs………..because we all know qantas classic reward availability at the moment is beyond shit

          and if you do find availability, you get sucker punched by the taxes (fees)

  • Buwwy on 27/03/2023 - 23:31
    +3

    Thats why Velocity ranks as my favourite ff program in Australia at the moment. Easier to churn and much easier to find award availability across some very decent partners. But not much of a choice if you want to fly in F! Which is still on my bucket list

    • strongzero on 27/03/2023 - 23:33
      +1

      Agreed! While I think that KF doesn’t represent good value, I am still stashing away some points for a f redemption. If only they had saver availability!

    • strongzero on 27/03/2023 - 23:35
      +1

      I wish velocity had a better search engine, and something akin to points club. Then I’d never go back to QFF! But we can’t have it all. Family pooling is pretty nice though

  • HardQuiz on 28/03/2023 - 01:46
    +2

    I’m with you on the hard expiry. Annoying and adds to the frustrating experience.

  • Some Guy on 28/03/2023 - 06:17

    This post just reeks of "I couldn't use my points for the cheapest redemption for the most expensive/desirable fare at the most peak time, so the whole program is shite". Facebook groups are full of similar posts usually by clowns that have no experience/understanding of any of the issues involved.

    Sorry, but I've not had issues using my KF miles for F/J saver awards in the past. I do agree that the hard expiry of points is, potentially, a pest, but it has not been an issue for me yet.

    It is an usual time in travel and rewards travel, with demand stoked by lots of people with lots of points and time accumulated over Covid. What's your evidence that savers are being "withheld"? N=1? Just because you didn't get one doesn't mean that KF is not releasing them. It just means that others have beaten you to it.

    • strongzero on 28/03/2023 - 09:25

      Then how do you explain saver availability with UA/AC/VA mileage programmes on SQ metal?
      I have found plenty of biz awards via SQ but it’s clear that they are still heavily pushing their advantage awards while keeping saver space to a minimum. That’s my problem with the program. The fact that SQ availability is better elsewhere, usually for a more reasonable cost.

      This phenomenon has been noted by multiple people across a wide cross section of the points collecting community, not just myself. Plus I earn mostly flexible points currencies/velocity points so I’m not locked in to KFs draconian hard expiry.

      If you do a search right now, you won’t find any saver F fares (on the a380 departing Syd or Mel) on KF departing in the next twelve months. Past performance can’t predict future results with point programs. I believe KF was better in the past, however at the moment I don’t believe it is a compelling option. Hence this post.

      If not saying X points program is shite because I couldn’t find my redemption. I’m saying overall it’s not that compelling when you consider all the factors: they’re hard to earn, limited availability and hard expiry. I’d say that’s pretty shite when you consider velocity has family pooling, Qantas has points club. When you transfer to SQ your miles just sit their dormant waiting for the next KF deval.

      • tororm on 28/03/2023 - 09:44

        A380 saver fares are rarer than hens teeth on ANY route worldwide- it was bad before the upgrade- when there were 12 suites- now there's only 6 of them per flight: if I'm SQ I'm not going to put 1/3rd of the cabin on saver.

        There are plenty of buisness saver fares in and out of Syd + Mel and a smattering of non suite F's as well: I booked one last week.

        Different programs suit different people at different times.

      • Some Guy on 28/03/2023 - 10:07

        I'm not surprised that the F savers on the A380 for the year have already been taken. It's a great seat and pent up demand is in full swing.

        There's plenty of F availability on the 777 out of MEL (not the worst experience in the world), so pick up an A380 to somewhere from there. Check on AFF or Flyer Talk to find out the future of the SQ A380.

        I think that SQ hasn't changed much, IME anyway. I can't see any greener grass.

        • MrThing on 02/04/2023 - 19:49

          F saver fares don't exist anymore on the A380 because of the reduction in seat numbers. soon as the flights release, they are straight away advantage, even thou none of the seats have sold yet

          F on the 777 is ok……I flew 1way to europe from sydney when I was in a bind because qantas cancelled my J / F flight via japan. But wasn't worth the amount of points it cost on the 777

  • DingoBilly on 28/03/2023 - 08:56
    +1

    I don't think it's over-rated mostly because I don't think anyone has ever really rated them that highly.

    QFF seem to be the gold standard in this place.

  • tororm on 28/03/2023 - 08:59
    +2

    I've not used KF for very long- about two years. In that time I've successfully booked 2x Suites SIN - FRA (Dec 22) and have another single F seat from SIN - MEL in a couple of months: both on saver fares.

    Availability for suites is limited- but I made it a habit to check daily. Biggest issue I had was that whilst there was 2 saver seats available, booking 1 removed the other- meaning it was impossible to book two seats accross two (my partners + mine) KF accounts. It took a total of 27 hours on the phone to sort that out- granted most of that was on hold.

    A combination of st george + citibank cards and KF has allowed me to fly in a way that I could never have imagined: so overall it's been pretty great.

  • Stewardo on 28/03/2023 - 09:04

    “Churn damn hard” Just wait till they downgrade you to a A350 and they do have the type of Champagne you wanted, how dare they. Churners have feelings too.

  • Shadowsfury on 28/03/2023 - 10:12

    I was looking into this last night actually - did have some Krisflyer points I used up recently (only enough for economy one way for 1 pax) but have 800k Velocity burning a hole in my pocket that I want to reduce before it gets devalued too much.

    Just looking for SQ MEL-SIN first class availability and there's pretty much nothing for saver redemptions on the A380 all the way to March 2024. The return flight is overnight so feel won't be as useful for the full first class experience.

    Other metal (planes) and there is heaps for the same route. Makes me think that they do somewhat hold off on the first class suite availability (and I want the suites on the A380 not the seats on the 777). However dropping down to business class and there's heaps of availability on flights. Might just do that until I can find some A380 F suites on a different trip.

  • knobbs on 28/03/2023 - 10:43
    +3

    Have you seen Qantas?

  • z0s0 on 28/03/2023 - 11:36

    Dunno.. I'm flying out in May on an SQ Saver J fare from MEL to UK. It's the second such redemption I've made using points acquired via the Citibank PayAll freebie featured in another thread here.

    Overall it doesn't seem any better or worse than QFF points - just different pros and cons.

  • Drakesy on 28/03/2023 - 11:44

    I just abuse the Virgin system with access to some SG flights its pretty good for getting to singapore at least.

  • Autonomic on 28/03/2023 - 12:15
    +3

    It might be overrated but it's still decent. Hard expiry is probably the worst thing, but the low taxes for redemptions are excellent. Cheapest way to get to Europe in J.

  • payless69 on 28/03/2023 - 15:56

    I have joined just about any FF program there is and must say Kris is lagging in excitement. Living away from large ports no system proofed to be advantage.
    But the last trip to Europe I had a last minute swap from Japan to Singapore.
    But post covid flying the Japanese could learn a lot compared to Sinair when it comes to service!

  • dbui8743 on 29/03/2023 - 15:58

    Taking this chance to ask people, I fly to Vietnam most of the times and I do use Krisflyer quiet a lot.

    Seeing this thread on how it is not worth it with Krisflyer is kinda surprising. I give you that before Covid it was much much better in terms of availability and much cheaper points required for flights. It is still decent now if you know when to look.

    So anyone has any experience swapping points or using other rewards programs for South east Asia flights?

    • Shadowsfury on 30/03/2023 - 08:57

      The taxes are killer but can fly Cathay to Vietnam using Qantas points (again, the taxes make it not worth while though - e.g. for the dates I'm looking $600 cash fare one way, or redeem points for a classic rewards flight and still pay $370 in taxes)

      • strongzero on 30/03/2023 - 09:58

        Have you looked at the same route using Asia miles? The f&t should be lower

  • MrThing on 02/04/2023 - 19:44

    if you think KF is over rated, dont look at qantas

    Qantas is passion pop service for champagne and caviar price

    Singapore airlines is champagne and caviar service for champagne and caviar price

    also I always am successful getting saver business class tickets, but I book 11months out and am flexible

    hard expiry is shit, but I accumulate virgin points and transfer across when I am ready to make a booking.

    I picked up 2 return first suites tickets to Singapore with ease back in january

  • strongzero on 05/04/2023 - 11:36

    For flights to Asia Krisflyer doesn’t represent good value or availability. Unless you’re flying from Darwin or cairns. You’re also forced to transit through Changi. Qantas has the plenty of award availability to and from Asia. Yes you have to pay fees and taxes, but at least there are classic awards available. I don’t agree with your stance on Qantas being expensive. You can easily earn Qantas points in australia and they are are easy to come by through other means than just churning. Plus in my own experience I have enjoyed all my recent j trips in Qantas. I also value the ability to take a direct flight, points club and having a decent online portal to search for award availability.

    I’m also not forced to book a flight in j 11 months in advance, because again there is heaps of availability.

    • knobbs on 05/04/2023 - 11:46
      +1

      Points club is basically pointless for a churner IMO. If you churn well you should have enough for J flights (1x a year). If you are travelling J you don't need lounge access. If doing a small domestic holiday I book the cheapest option generally or Virgin. Qantas ticket prices are absurd and would only be booking it to take advantage of free lounge access. Difference in ticket cost would be minimum $100+ though so $100 for lounge entry after you have earned it through churning.
      I think when most referrer to Qantas being expensive it is the taxes for reward flights. The Qantas portal is horrific for most bookings unless doing a simple A to B flight. Trying to book anything more complicated it falls over and you are on hold for 3hrs to the call center who then hang up because they don't feel like it today.
      I do enjoy the SQ experience quite a bit more than QF but would never say I don't like QF (J). Anything booked in J is a win for my pleb butt that will only ever pay cash for economy.

      • strongzero on 05/04/2023 - 12:10
        +1

        For me I end up booking quite a few econ QF point fares in Y and cash JQ bookings, so points club plus is worth it for me. Of course for international travel it’s a bit redundant as I always strive to get a J redemption. But I think it’s a pretty good perk - especially being able to earn status credits.

        I actually like the Qantas booking portal, I’ve never had trouble making a booking and I usually do pretty simple redemptions so I don’t need to worry about the call centre. I don’t like SQ’s booking portal and I find it super touchy with partner airlines, but I can imagine booking through the call centre is much more straightforward than QF.

        • knobbs on 05/04/2023 - 12:15
          +1

          Yeah if you travel domestic quite a bit on QF/JQ in Y, points club is a great attractor. Although have you weighed up buying a yearly Virgin lounge ($400) to staying on QF/JQ?
          With Qantas's portal I have only ever tried to book multi stop journeys so probably why I hate it and worse than that is the OS call centers. I think I have added 30 years to my life dealing with them trying to book a RTW in J.

          • strongzero on 05/04/2023 - 12:47

            @knobbs: I’m not a big virgin fan to be honest, I’m not keen to fly on the 737MAX either. Hence why I’d rather keep my eggs in the Qantas basket. I also think overall Qantas just has a better network that suits my travel needs so I rarely travel on virgin. But I will keep that in mind, as it could be worth it for me when and if virgin expand their route map.

            I have heard about the struggles of booking a RTW with Qantas, however SQ’s RTW booking process seems like a headache as well so it’s swings and roundabouts really. Plus didn’t they recently add an additional charge to their rtw booking? I think it was like $250 USDI think the main thing is the airlines probably aren’t too keen on making rtw trips that accessible considering you can get a considerable amount of flights for not that much money haha.

  • strongzero on 05/04/2023 - 11:39

    Also transferring from velocity majorly eats into your points stash. Maybe try and book SQ through velocity instead of burning through an extra 55% of your points.

  • tanksinatra on 18/04/2023 - 14:23
    +1

    I just wanted to echo the same thing here. Availability is pretty bad, Most flights Europe <-> Australia seem to be waitlisted, and clearance rates are pretty low. And if your waitlists don't clear then that eats into your points expiry.

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