Bait and Switch Music Concert Tickets

subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 19:21
Last edited 23/03/2023 - 22:18

I bought tickets to an Ice Cube, Cypress Hill and The Game concert for next week and just yesterday I received an email saying that The Game was no longer performing.

These were $170 floor tickets which I think is expensive but reasonable for 3 acts I'm interested in. I don't think it's reasonable now that The Game is no longer performing. As such I asked the promoter, MJR Presents for a partial refund. They initially refused saying because Ice Cube is still performing there will be no refunds. When I told them I'm entitled to a refund according to the ACCC they replied that they will instead cancel my tickets and give me a full refund. I don't want to cancel as I still want to see Ice Cube and Cypress Hill. I just want the portion that was to cover The Game returned.

I feel like it was a bait and switch, amping up the concert as being bigger than what it is and then last minute announcing that The Game was no longer performing (and instead a local act) to make sure there's no time to demand refunds.

Fair Trading has said I need to lodge a formal complaint for them to look into it, it will be too late by the time they investigate unfortunately, which I feel is part of MJR's plan…

Am I being unreasonable? Am I within my rights to request a partial refund?

Anyone had a similar experience and were successful in getting a partial refund?

Edit: I've received some advice from a free legal service stating that we are indeed entitled to a partial refund under Australian consumer laws:

Australian Consumer Law (ACL) provides consumers with certain guarantees for goods and services purchased in Australia, including event tickets.

Section 54 of the ACL provides that goods and services must be of acceptable quality, which includes being fit for any disclosed purpose, and match the description provided by the supplier. Section 60 of the ACL also provides that if a consumer has acquired services that do not meet one or more of the consumer guarantees, the consumer is entitled to a remedy, such as a partial refund.

In the context of concert tickets, if one of the advertised acts is cancelled last minute, the concert may not meet the description provided to consumers, and therefore, consumers may be entitled to a partial refund.

It's important to note that the specific amount of the refund may vary depending on various factors such as the importance of the cancelled act, the cost of the ticket, and any expenses incurred by the consumer as a result of the cancellation.

If you need more detailed information or advice on your specific situation, you may wish to contact a consumer protection agency, such as the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) or a legal professional.

Financial Concert Ticket

Comments

  • Hybroid on 22/03/2023 - 19:28
    +34

    I just want the portion that was to cover The Game returned.

    That’s not how it works. The tickets aren’t broken down into different acts. You have a choice of either full refund or keep them. That’s reasonable.

    There may be a valid reason why The Game pulled out and not necessarily intentionally something sinister by the promoter. Things happen. Also pretty sure such issues are covered by the T&Cs you would have agreed to.

      • Hybroid on 22/03/2023 - 19:55
        +16

        Can you point to where it explains exactly how it works then?

        Sure thing.

        where an event is cancelled or significantly changed, consumers may have a right to a refund. This will depend on:

        • the reason for the cancellation or change
        • the nature of the change
        • the terms and conditions of the ticket.

        …where the event organiser chooses to cancel or makes a major change to an event, consumers are entitled to a refund under their consumer rights. Examples of a major change might be where the headline act at a festival is changed, or where the location of a show is changed from one city to another.

        https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic…

        You are absolutely entitled to a full refund. There is no entitlement to arbitrary partial refunds.

          • freefall101 on 22/03/2023 - 20:06
            +18

            @subywagon: It doesn't state you're entitled to a refund in the form of a free pony either. The problem is it states what your rights are and anything beyond that is just you wanting something you're not actually entitled to get.

              • freefall101 on 22/03/2023 - 20:16
                +18

                @subywagon: Definitely ask for the pony.

              • k-rokfm on 22/03/2023 - 20:18
                +8

                @subywagon: yeah you can choose - a remedy: keep the ticket or a refund (full obviously).

                You also asked "Am I being unreasonable? Am I within my rights to request a partial refund?" and everyone here has responded pretty bluntly no. Yet it seems like you are not trying to get an answer, but looking for confirmation bias for your argument.

                If you look to "try" to get a partial refund, you will lose because an outcome will not be for weeks/months - and they will say refund or keep the ticket.

                • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 20:30

                  @k-rokfm:

                  everyone here has responded pretty bluntly no.

                  Two people?

                  And I'm taking what they've said on board. Even so, I still feel it's reasonable to expect a partial refund when a main draw card has been canceled from the concert.

                  I agree that you are right, I won't get a partial refund in time.

                  I was also hoping to hear from people who have been in a similar situation.

                  I'll have to leave it with Fair Trading.

                  Thanks for your valid input.

                  • dtc on 22/03/2023 - 20:38
                    +7

                    @subywagon: How do you judge the refund proportion? It’s not 1/3 because there is a replacement act. The music will play for as long. The replacement is probably better than The Game, fewer assault charges for sure.

                    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 20:50
                      -2

                      @dtc: I didn't pay to see a replacement act regardless of how long they play. I paid to see The Game, regardless of his "assault charges" which is in no way relevant. How do you judge "probably better"? Everyone has different tastes and opinions, but one is world class and one is a local act…

                      • dtc on 23/03/2023 - 10:03
                        -1

                        @subywagon: What about people who dont like The Game but wanted to see the other acts? Should they get a refund? Or is it determined person by person on an individual basis?

                        • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 10:55

                          @dtc: lol What about them? They paid knowing that The Game is performing. There wasn't a promise that he wouldn't perform because people don't like him at the concert.

                          I've been informed by the free legal service at my uni that I am indeed entitled to a partial refund under Section 54 of the ACL provides that goods and services must be of acceptable quality, which includes being fit for any disclosed purpose, and match the description provided by the supplier. Section 60 of the ACL also provides that if a consumer has acquired services that do not meet one or more of the consumer guarantees, the consumer is entitled to a remedy, such as a partial refund.

                  • iDroid on 22/03/2023 - 21:46
                    +5

                    @subywagon:

                    I still feel it's reasonable to expect a partial refund when a main draw card has been canceled from the concert.

                    You're wasting too much energy on this.

                    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 22:11

                      @iDroid: It's the ozbargain way lol I've wasted more energy over $10 jbhifi vouchers than the effort put into this thread lol

                  • bawdygeorge on 23/03/2023 - 07:13
                    +2

                    @subywagon: How would they come up with a value for the partial refund?

        • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 08:56

          Well according to the UMSU consumer law page, consumers are entitled to partial refunds for a drop in value the value of service, at the consumer's discretion…

          "Remedies for major problems include cancelling the contract and paying a reasonable amount for the work done (or seeking a partial refund of money already paid), or keeping the contract and negotiating a reduced price for the drop in value of the service. This is at the consumer’s discretion."

      • Bargainitis on 23/03/2023 - 16:04
        +1

        I haven't seen this much downvote carnage on OZB so cheers to that.

        Make up your mind - either accept the refund or go and enjoy the show - who know they may end up finding an alternative 3rd act. You are definitely wasting too much time on this…

        • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 22:15

          Apparently a lot of ozbargainers need to hand in their OZB cards lol. I'm going to the concert and lodging with fair trading for a partial refund. I've barely spent anytime on this, just a few emails and a chat with a solicitor at uni and playing in here when I check for deals lol

    • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 11:03
      -2

      A solicitor has just informed me that this is indeed exactly how it works according to consumer law under Section 54 and section 60 of the ACL…

      • k-rokfm on 24/03/2023 - 15:59
        -1

        Lol at seeking out free legal advice over a $170 concert ticket

        • subywagon on 24/03/2023 - 16:42

          Hand in your OZB card! Well it was $525 actually as I bought a few tickets. And most uni's offer free legal service, it's is literally there for issues like this according to them. No difference to to talking with Fair Trading over consumer law regarding refunds.

  • deme on 22/03/2023 - 19:41
    +1

    They initially refused saying because Ice Cube is still performing there will be no refunds. When I told them I'm entitled to a refund according to the ACCC they replied that they will instead cancel my tickets and give me a full refund.

    Report this to ACCC

    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 19:51
      -1

      Fair Trade have told me to lodge a formal complaint with them so they can investigate it further.

    • original15 on 22/03/2023 - 21:12

      OP was asking for a partial refund (basically a discount on the tickets they’d paid for) given an act pulled out.
      This request was denied.
      They were offered a refund and tickets to be cancelled

      • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 11:09

        That's correct, but according to consumer law we are also entitled to a partial refund at our (the consumers) discretion.

  • CodeXD on 22/03/2023 - 19:41
    +2

    I feel like it was a bait and switch, amping up the concert as being bigger than what it is and then last minute announcing that The Game was no longer performing (and instead a local act) to make sure there's no time to demand refunds.

    they replied that they will instead cancel my tickets and give me a full refund

    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 19:43
      -2

      They initially said there was NO refunds until I mentioned the ACCC

  • Nugs on 22/03/2023 - 19:46
    +2

    Apparently he has form re cancellations. He clearly doesn't need the money

    https://www.therichest.com/rich-powerful/rapper-the-game-fin…

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/pop-culture/23-11-2022/five-gigs-fo…
    .

    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 19:49
      -1

      Yeah I've read that, and I've heard the MJR may have known for a while that The Game had no intentions of performing and didn't let everyone know until last minute. I look forward to finding some hard proof…

  • djsweet on 22/03/2023 - 20:01
    +9

    Its pretty shady by the promoter, but they have offered you a full refund so probably not much more you can expect. By announcing the cancellation just before the show, and then giving only the option of full refund (and only when pushed), they are putting people in a position where most will not take up the refund, and they don't have to pay one of the main artists. So the promoter is going to come out ahead at everyone else's expense. Smart play, probably not illegal, but definitely not fair.

    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 20:02

      Thanks for the reply. This is exactly my thoughts too. Sneaky move. Promoters are shady as F lol

      • djsweet on 22/03/2023 - 20:05
        +2

        Unfortunately this is not uncommon. It isn't always the promoter's fault either, but in this case it seems they are taking full advantage of the situation to make a few extra bucks . I've had this happen to me twice, once at an interstate show when it was the main performer. It really leaves a bad taste in your mouth, but what can you do?

        • subywagon on 24/03/2023 - 16:53

          You can lodge a complaint with Fair Trading. The ACCC says to ensure you purchase tickets in a manner that allows you to do charge backs too.

  • elgrande on 22/03/2023 - 20:13
    +2

    Do Ice Cube and Cypress Hill both do there diss tracks?

    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 20:14
      +1

      lol yeah, but they swap lyrics to mix it up a bit haha

  • pegaxs on 22/03/2023 - 20:51

    I went to a cypress hill concert in the early/mid 90’s and they made it into my top 3 all time worst gigs I have ever been too. It was trash. Absolutely garbage. They got up on stage, played their latest album from start to finish and it was over in about 45 mins.

    I would literally pay not to see them…

    • subywagon on 22/03/2023 - 20:53

      That sucks. I've been a fan of them since the 90's but never had a chance to see them. Hopefully it was just an off night or period they were going through.

  • fantombloo on 22/03/2023 - 21:04
    +1

    Last year (or the one before?) there was a hoodoo gurus headline with the dandy warhols supporting. Imo this was done in this config because the promoter was worried that the dandies might not make it from o/s due to covid related issues while the hoodoos, being local, we're a shoe in, and being the main act, would not affect the tickets. Well, bad luck to the promoter, a couple of hoodoos got covid and the gig was cancelled a few days before. (I got my money back, never went to the rescheduled gig - heard it was a fizzer anyway.)

  • Mechz on 22/03/2023 - 22:41
    +1

    Don't they know? It's all about The Game, and how you play it…

    • Jono05 on 24/03/2023 - 00:19

      Don’t blame the player, blame The Game….

  • morse on 23/03/2023 - 05:13

    Go to the concert then make complaint to fair trading (or whatever it’s called in your state) re partial refund. They can still refund you after the concert.

    • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 08:24
      +1

      That's the plan. I was reading on the UMSU site under the consumer laws section that consumers are entitled to partial refunds if services fall short.

  • onetwothreefour on 23/03/2023 - 06:31

    Who is the replacement act?

  • AustriaBargain on 23/03/2023 - 06:32
    +1

    I paid $140 per ticket for an operetta that's in the public domain and is only being played by the Adelaide orchestra. $170 to see three or even two world famous acts perform dozens of copyrighted songs probably isn't so bad. Maybe it's expensive because Cyprus Hill got high and stole Peter Frampton's orchestra..

    • disturboed on 23/03/2023 - 10:11

      Do you feel??? click click Come on!! Do ya feeel? click

  • lostgoat on 23/03/2023 - 07:35
    +2

    I want a refund for my AFL ticket when Bubby didn't play .! Call the ACCC . All season ticket holders should get a partial refund /
    I don't like going when the most over paid player not on the field. .

    • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 08:16

      Hilarious. Well Bubby wasn't advertised as a headlining act, The Game was.

  • Viospeed on 23/03/2023 - 09:31

    I would just get a full refund tbh.

  • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 10:58
    -2

    This is the advice I have received from a free legal service:

    tldr: Yes I am legally entitled to a partial refund.

    According to the Australian Consumer Law, you may be entitled to a partial refund for concert tickets if one of the acts is cancelled last minute.

    Under the law, consumers have a right to a refund or replacement if goods or services are not of acceptable quality, are not fit for purpose, or do not match the description provided. In the case of concert tickets, if one of the acts advertised is cancelled, the concert may not be considered to match the description provided.

    The amount of the refund may depend on various factors, such as the importance of the cancelled act to the overall show, the cost of the ticket, and any expenses incurred by the consumer as a result of the cancellation (such as travel and accommodation costs).

    If you believe you are entitled to a partial refund for concert tickets due to a last-minute cancellation of an act, you should contact the ticket seller or event organiser to request a refund or compensation. If they do not agree to provide a refund or compensation, you may wish to seek further advice from a consumer protection agency or a legal professional.

    Australian Consumer Law (ACL) provides consumers with certain guarantees for goods and services purchased in Australia, including event tickets.

    Section 54 of the ACL provides that goods and services must be of acceptable quality, which includes being fit for any disclosed purpose, and match the description provided by the supplier. Section 60 of the ACL also provides that if a consumer has acquired services that do not meet one or more of the consumer guarantees, the consumer is entitled to a remedy, such as a partial refund.

    In the context of concert tickets, if one of the advertised acts is cancelled last minute, the concert may not meet the description provided to consumers, and therefore, consumers may be entitled to a partial refund.

    It's important to note that the specific amount of the refund may vary depending on various factors such as the importance of the cancelled act, the cost of the ticket, and any expenses incurred by the consumer as a result of the cancellation.

    If you need more detailed information or advice on your specific situation, you may wish to contact a consumer protection agency, such as the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) or a legal professional.

    • Sleeqb7 on 23/03/2023 - 11:12

      Literally everywhere in your own post here is says "may".

      You're not entitled to a partial refund. Either cancel the ticket and take a full refund, or enjoy the show.

      • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 11:21
        +2

        Oh gee, the word may was used so I'm not entitled to a partial refund.
        The word "may" is used because the specific circumstances of each case can affect whether a consumer is entitled to a partial refund… The solicitor reckons in this instance we are entitled to one. I guess your legal advice differs due to the use of "may"…

        • Sleeqb7 on 23/03/2023 - 11:53

          You said;

          tldr: Yes I am legally entitled to a partial refund.

          But the text you posted demonstrated you're not entitled to it. There are some circumstances and terms and conditions in which you may be entitled to it, however the company has demonstrably said that is not the case for this instance.

          Furthermore, "the solicitor" is suggesting you "you may wish to seek further advice from a consumer protection agency or a legal professional" wouldn't fill me with confidence personally.

          • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 12:23

            @Sleeqb7:

            But the text you posted demonstrated you're not entitled to it.

            Why? Because "may" was used? I think this part that you're ignoring of what I posted "Section 60 of the ACL also provides that if a consumer has acquired services that do not meet one or more of the consumer guarantees, the consumer is entitled to a remedy, such as a partial refund." demonstrates I am entitled to a partial refund. "The solicitor", you know, with legal training and a degree thinks so too.

            the company has demonstrably said that is not the case for this instance.

            Companies can say what they like, but they can't override consumer law

            "the solicitor" …wouldn't fill me with confidence personally.

            Good for you. The qualified solicitor is giving out free advice, through a university legal service, not representing me hence suggesting if I want to take it further to seek further advice from a legal professional or the ACCC.

            • Sleeqb7 on 23/03/2023 - 13:56
              +1

              @subywagon: Alright so you asked a question and the majority of people have told you that you're wrong but you've decided you're not. You're here for confirmation bias, which is tedious at best.

              Talk to your solicitor again and sue the company then.
              Alternatively, you can attend the show.

              glhf

              • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 14:21

                @Sleeqb7: I was interested in others opinions and experiences as I wasn't sure at the beginning.

                I didn't "decide" I'm not wrong. I received legal advice stating I am entitled to persue a partial refund.
                Since gaining actual professional legal advice that states I am entitled to persue a partial refund due to last minute changes, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to disagree with various unprofessional opinions on Ozbargain no matter how the horde negs.

                Everyone normally asks on here "What did your solicitor say?" If the solicitor had said to me I'm not entitled to a partial refund I would have accepted their advice and let everyone know and moved on.

                I won't be sueing them. I'll attend the show, enjoy Ice Cube and Cypress Hill. Then I'll lodge a complaint with Fair Trading.

                Thanks for your input and wish of good luck. I'll definitely have fun. You too. 😊

              • Jono05 on 24/03/2023 - 00:22

                @Sleeqb7: I’m entitled though…

  • Reverse Snorkel on 23/03/2023 - 11:19
    -2

    Stop having a cry and get the full refund if you're not happy. At least you got a response from the ticket seller (whether it's Ticketek or Ticketmaster). That's better than most would get. If you want to go see the show still, go see it. I don't think this is an issue.

    • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 11:23
      +1

      I'll cry all I want as per my legal right, because I paid to see The Game as advertised. Why so apathetic? We have consumer laws for a reason. Attitudes like this is why organisations get away with more and more shonky behaviour.

      • lostgoat on 23/03/2023 - 11:26
        +1

        I heard of the other 2 . Who in the hell is The Game ?

        • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 11:28
          +1

          The Game

          Enjoy

          • lostgoat on 23/03/2023 - 11:37

            @subywagon: Not doing bad 2.86 mil subs .

            • Reverse Snorkel on 23/03/2023 - 14:19
              +1

              @lostgoat: Seems like a lot of effort and time wasted. I don't know about you but my time is worth more than a $20 refund to prove a point. You'll end up paying more in legal fees to contest it. Sometimes the premotor has no control over what acts may pull out last min for whatever reason. They at least informed the ticketholders so they had the option to obtain a full refund if not happy. Some show's don't even offer that.

              • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 14:35

                @Reverse Snorkel: Not really much effort. A couple of emails, a chat while at uni and it's pretty simple to lodge with Fair Trading. It's actually around $57 give or take, plus I bought 3 tickets all up, so around $175.
                They are actually refusing refunds completely until you mention the consumer law and ACCC.
                I'm not going to take it to court lol

                They have legal obligations under consumer law. We don't know the details of how long they've known. They may have still been selling tickets under the premise that The Game was performing up until the last minute.

  • 2esc on 23/03/2023 - 13:36
    +1

    How do you calculate the partial refund? A third? Are they replacing the act? They have to pay them. No full refund or keep ticket.

    • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 14:11

      There are various factors used to calculate this. It's not my problem if they have to pay them. I didn't buy my ticket to see them. They weren't advertised when I bought my ticket, The Game was. The Game, being an international act would have higher fees than a local act.

      "In the context of concert tickets, if one of the advertised acts is cancelled last minute, the concert may not meet the description provided to consumers, and therefore, consumers may be entitled to a partial refund."

    • Reverse Snorkel on 23/03/2023 - 14:14
      +1

      It's subjective who's the best but If there's 3 acts, Usually the least popular goes first. In that case, i'd class the acts % of ticket cost as:

      60%, 30% and 10% in that order.

      Cube is the key attraction, Hill is second and the last one is the 10%. So in that case, a 10% refund would be given.

      Some might not agree, some just come to see the warm-up act. That's where it's subjective.

      • subywagon on 23/03/2023 - 14:37

        I don't think it's subjective, only with who you prefer as an act. There'd be contracts in place. But I do agree it wouldn't have been an equal split. If it's so low, why the avoidance of a partial refund?

  • Jono05 on 24/03/2023 - 00:27

    Do the ticket T&C's mention anything about acts cancelling?

    • subywagon on 24/03/2023 - 16:48
      +1

      It doesn't matter what the t&c's say according to the ACCC as there's already consumer laws in place regarding last minute changes saying you are entitled to a partial refund if you request it. I'm not sure why many OZBers are having a hissy fit over this, considering it's literally a law, but once a neg wave starts they all ride it. Back in the day OZBers would be out with pitch forks over this crap lol

    • subywagon on 24/03/2023 - 16:50

      Well it's literally the law that we are entitled to a partial refund but once the neg wave starts everyone mindlessly follows.

  • blazerunner on 24/03/2023 - 16:44
    +1

    Hate it or love it… the Game will not be performing. To be fair, he did warn you…

    "…and I ain't going nowhere, so you can get to know me"

    • subywagon on 24/03/2023 - 16:48

      Haha true 😂

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