When Is It Time to Euthanise a Cat with Heart Failure

pragmaticguy on 17/03/2023 - 21:20
Last edited 18/03/2023 - 19:39 by 1 other user

My cat is about 12 years old. This week, she started having trouble to breathe (didn’t have her mouth open, but was breathing as if she was purring, really fast). Took her to the hospital, and after exams she was diagnosed with heart failure. Vet gave her a couple injections, said she is likely to go back to an ok state and said expectation is that she will now have a good few months of life (12-24 with quality, but oral medicine everyday) and she will then get worse and struggle until the time comes.

As much as this is extremely heart breaking as we love this cat dearly, we don’t want it to suffer. Has anyone had any similar experiences? What happened in the end?

——— EDIT

Fate removed that call from me. Got a call from the vet 3am today, we went there to find our cat in a condition no human being would accept for a loved one. So at 5am today, we let her go. Incredibly devastating. Thank you all for your input and support, it will take a while for me to recover from this.

————- EDIT 2

Here's a couple pictures of her for you guys. I am not thanking and interacting with each of you below because I am not well enough to do that. However, I would like to thank you all again, this thread really did help me cope in some ways.

https://imageup.ru/img138/4252738/nina.jpeg
https://imageup.ru/img209/4252786/nina2.jpeg

Last one was taken just a few days ago.

Pets Cat

Comments

    • pragmaticguy on 17/03/2023 - 21:35
      +1

      I’ve had a cat live 21 years with grain based food (and wet food in the last 6-7 years or so, because she lost her teeth). Not saying you’re wrong, but also curious to see the science behind it - any links ?

      • 7ekn00 on 17/03/2023 - 21:40

        They are carnivores by nature, watch them in nature or ask a vet …

        Is it really that hard to look up "proof links" ffs: https://www.google.com/search?q=best+diet+for+cats

        because se lost her teeth

        Teeth falling out is lack of Vit E from lack of nutrition …

        Why have animal if you plan to torture them with non native diets for 10+ years :/

        Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they must eat mainly meat and animal organs to thrive. The amino acid taurine, for example, is found only in animal tissue. Lack of taurine can lead a cat to experience heart problems, blindness, and even death.

        • pragmaticguy on 17/03/2023 - 21:44
          +2

          I guess our definitions of torture differ greatly, this cat was treated like a family member, with a lot of love and we did the best we could. The cat def loved the food. But I know what you mean - if there’s something that is proven to be a lot healthier , it should be the choice. At the time (this was 15 years ago), we gave the cat the best food , as recommended by our vet.

        • Thatbargainhunter on 18/03/2023 - 00:32
          +6

          A Google search is not a meta analysis.

          There is very little credible evidence of a link of grains and health problems in cats.

          It's all propoganda perpetuated by ignorance.

          • Chandler on 20/03/2023 - 15:54

            @Thatbargainhunter:

            It's all propoganda perpetuated by ignorance.

            Perhaps, but the point still stands that you don't see felines in the wild chowing down on some wheat!

        • cookie2 on 18/03/2023 - 07:11
          +9

          I've run outa negs so I'll comment instead.

          What is actually wrong with you? Is this your chosen method of communicating with others or you genuinely don't know any better? OP is being reasonable and even discussed with you further and you're acting like a bit of a dick.
          I suspect you don't have further evidence to reflect your opinion and so just act like this instead.
          ALSO if you have to include "proof links" into a topic on google then your results will be tainted by the bias you've asked for in your search terms themselves.

      • Sammy2000 on 17/03/2023 - 21:42

        Any links not on Facebook?
        Heart disease is more likely due to genetics.

      • AustriaBargain on 17/03/2023 - 21:54

        Did the grain based food have anything to do with them losing their teeth? I thought cats were carnivores and I thought they needed wet food as well as dry food.

        • pragmaticguy on 11/04/2023 - 22:06

          I asked this question. Vet said some cats have a stronger tendency to accumulate plaque and tartar, which if not cleaned regularly can result in loss of teeth sooner. Though cats age they can loose teeth anyway. For those younger cats, the vet can perform q dental cleaning under anestesia (my cat did this twice). But if the cat is older, the risks outweigh the benefits - and so we didn’t do that anymore. You can also give oral care sort of foods, which for this older cat I did not do, we just wanted her final years to be about what she loved eating, she was already quite old when she started loosing her teeth.

    • MS Paint on 17/03/2023 - 21:43
      +2

      A 100% pure meat diet is not healthy for domesticated cats. Other nutrients and vitamins still need to be added either in a powder form or with other raw products. Same goes for dogs.

      • 7ekn00 on 17/03/2023 - 21:45
        -4

        ROFL, there is no nutrients of vitamins not in meat, hint: watch them in the wild ;)

        In fact, the ONLY source of Taurine is meat - to the point they ADD Taurine to "pet meat" to make up for the fact pets don't get enough!

        • MS Paint on 17/03/2023 - 21:48
          +3

          watch them in the wild ;)

          Pets are domesticated to live long healthy lives. This won't happen on meat.

          Look at any domesticated cat that has no owners and is feral. They mostly look horrible from poor nutrition.

          • 7ekn00 on 17/03/2023 - 21:49
            -3

            @MS Paint: It will ONLY happen on meat, where do you think the Amino Acid Taurine comes from?

            It's so lacking in pet foods they have to add more to even get close to an all meat diet

            • MS Paint on 17/03/2023 - 21:50
              +1

              @7ekn00: Pets need more than Taurine.

              • 7ekn00 on 17/03/2023 - 21:50
                -1

                @MS Paint: Yep and meat has every nutrient and vitamin they need, including Taurine! Not to mention B12, Creatine, Carnosine, Vitamin D3, Docosahexaenoic acid, Heme iron, etc etc etc

                Name another source of any of the above ;)

                • MS Paint on 17/03/2023 - 21:58

                  @7ekn00:

                  Docosahexaenoic acid

                  I see you know how to google.

                  You do you and enjoy your cats shortened life span. Just like all the wild felines out there.

                  • 7ekn00 on 17/03/2023 - 22:00
                    -2

                    @MS Paint: LOL, going on 22 years now without a single vet visit, but OK, guess that comment backfired ;)

                    Enjoy the usual domestic grain fed 8 - 12 years yourself then :P

                    Name a single nutrient missing from meat?

                  • 7ekn00 on 20/03/2023 - 23:31

                    @MS Paint: Just look up "Pottenger’s Cat Study", it's a comprehensive study of multiple generations of cats vs different diets:
                    https://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-who-were-potten…

                    Source: FM Pottenger, Pottenger's Cats, A Study in Nutrition, 2nd ed. Price Pottenger Nutrition, June 1, 2012.

                    HINT: the raw meat group was the most health for the most generations ;)

        • freefall101 on 17/03/2023 - 22:10
          +1

          In the wild they tend to have a very short lifespan.

          And you seem to be harping on a lot about the vitamins that are in meat - no one is saying to feed a cat vegetarian diet. What you're missing is that it's incredibly difficult to control their calcium, phosphorus and vitamin d levels and will cause all kinds of issues unless you're extremely careful in what meat you're giving them and how much.

        • cookie2 on 18/03/2023 - 07:18

          This is the second time you've sprouted this nonsense. Please tell how you can watch a domestic cat in the wild.

          Are you promoting for people to watch stray cats eating from bins? I don't think they're ordering meat off the menu.

          • Speckled Jim on 18/03/2023 - 09:29
            +1

            @cookie2: Nah they want it both ways.
            1. An indoor cat with the increased lifespan that brings. Life expectancy charts are often divided into indoor/outdoor.
            2. "Purity" of diet, free from Nestle/Purina/VIP corporations.

            Point 1 is great if possible, 2 for us is impossible given how fussy our old lady is. She's 15-and-a-bit and her diet spans mostly good deals of the processed stuff. Friskies and Fancy Feast mostly.

          • 7ekn00 on 20/03/2023 - 23:32

            @cookie2: Whatever, it's not hard to find the science before sprouting crap ;)

            Just look up "Pottenger’s Cat Study", it's a comprehensive study of multiple generations of cats vs different diets:
            https://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-who-were-potten…

            Source: FM Pottenger, Pottenger's Cats, A Study in Nutrition, 2nd ed. Price Pottenger Nutrition, June 1, 2012.

            • Speckled Jim on 26/03/2023 - 16:10

              @7ekn00: Yeah your helpful link is 404. Aside from being one isolated study.

              Edit: site is appealing for donations as they're a registered non-profit, thinktank advocacy group devoid of medical quals.

              No thanks!

              • 7ekn00 on 26/03/2023 - 16:25

                @Speckled Jim: Yeah, because it's soooooo hard for you to type in google the two sources I gave: 1 and 2

                Just look up "Pottenger’s Cat Study", it's a comprehensive study of multiple generations of cats vs different diets:
                Source: FM Pottenger, Pottenger's Cats, A Study in Nutrition, 2nd ed. Price Pottenger Nutrition, June 1, 2012.

                Oh noes, just one study! It's more than presented for the opposing view ;) And it's comprehensive and multi-generational

                • Speckled Jim on 26/03/2023 - 17:17

                  @7ekn00: Nah they're clearly well-meaning idiots who are exposed in their first paragraph.

                  They fail to acknowledge thousands of years' selective breeding as domesticated animals. When Purina (or Royal Canin, whoever) place "complete and balanced nutrition" on a product, even one containing cereal grain, that's a declaration.

                  I'd expect a much bigger tsunami of discontent among pet owners, coupled with demands of consumer advocacy groups to our pollies for decisive action on it otherwise.

                  No such hub-bub? No real issue then. The question is then leveled at YOU, 7ekn00, what's the advantage of an exclusive raw meat diet for cats? What sort of life expectancy extension can be expected for such a small mammal?
                  If pet owners have to supplement the meat with mineral powders to bring it up to complete and balanced, they'd be right to ask "what's the point?"

                  • 7ekn00 on 26/03/2023 - 17:28

                    @Speckled Jim: Read the study, it's all there ;)

                    what's the advantage of an exclusive raw meat diet for cats?

                    They lived longer, developed healthier skeletal bones, better teeth and had healthy offspring
                    (and anecdotal mines at 22 years on raw meat, but n of 1)

                    What sort of life expectancy extension can be expected for such a small mammal?

                    Read the study, the non raw group was as low as 5 years compared to 15+ for the raw group

                    If pet owners have to supplement the meat with mineral powders to bring it up to complete and balanced, they'd be right to ask "what's the point?"

                    Read the study, there was no "supplement to the meat" in the raw group!

                    No such hub-bub? No real issue then.

                    LOL, great scientific benchmark to adhere too!
                    There was no "hub-bub" about thalidomide in the 50s, there was no "hub-bub" about slavery for 200+ years …

                    I'd expect a much bigger tsunami or discontent among pet owners, coupled with demands of consumer advocacy groups to our pollies for decisive action on it otherwise.

                    How and why? The companies that sell products set the "benchmarks" as to "normal" as they want to sell product! Why would companies that can produce cheap grain based pet food tell you a cat can live 10 years longer on raw meat?!? Perfect example of mainstream advertising based marketing available right here in this very thread, despite a heap of studies showing otherwise :/

                    How many comments repeating advertising do we see here?
                    (waah waaah, cats need a "balanced diet" despite us knowing their physiology is carnivore and there are plenty of studies showing such)!

  • Sammy2000 on 17/03/2023 - 21:45

    When the medication no longer relieves your cat's suffering she will tell you it is time.

    • Mokr on 17/03/2023 - 21:51
      +2

      If a cat tells you they want to die. It's been way too long. They been suffering way to long so given up.

  • MS Paint on 17/03/2023 - 21:45
    +5

    Trust your vets advice and don't keep the cat alive for your benefit. I think you will know when the time is right.

    • Mokr on 17/03/2023 - 21:50

      Vets are all different it's up to op. Some people like to keep their animals alive via hand feeding.

  • AustriaBargain on 17/03/2023 - 21:53

    You gotta think the vet knows your cat's quality of life better than we do. Animals can't talk but your vet is trained to understand what's going on with them. Just do what the vet says. They won't want to prolong your cat's pain because cat people get new cats and take them to the same vet. Unless they need some extra money or want to try out some more complex treatments.

  • Benoffie on 17/03/2023 - 22:33
    +4

    You have to prepare for the possibility of waking up one morning to find them dead.

    We had a cat that died of heart failure but we had no warnings. Had we had warnings, the vet said the best we could have hoped for was tablets and maybe 6 months. The result would have been the same. She just dropped mid walk to her favourite chair 😩

    See how it goes over the next month or so and check in regularly with the vet. But as soon as it looks like things are turning, let them go. 🙏

  • Katie2014 on 17/03/2023 - 22:37
    +7

    I'm sorry you're going through this. It's so hard when pets become unwell.

    I don't have any experience with this particular condition, but I did lose my childhood dog to cancer. Once we knew she was unwell, we tried to make the rest of her life as enjoyable as possible for her. After a while she started looking more tired and losing interest in things she used to enjoy like chasing the ball, then the decision was made quickly when she lost interest in food and was unable to get up to use the toilet.

    Hopefully someone else who's familiar with this specific condition might be able to share their experience though. I wish you the best of luck and hope that the meds help her to enjoy a good quality of life for a little while longer.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 17/03/2023 - 23:19
    +1

    Best wishes my friend. I hope your cat is able to live a comfortable and quality life with ongoing supervision, vet advice as needed and medication. Monitor the situation, and if you feel your cat's situation is declining, seek vet advice. You will know when the right time is. Trust that you gave your cat the best quality life possible and that you will do what is in your cat's best interest should that time come.

    Ps. Own four cats here.

  • cookietime on 18/03/2023 - 00:13
    +2

    Sorry to hear about your cat, OP :(

    There's a Facebook page called Pet Vet Corner ℠ (ONLY APPROVED VETERINARIANS COMMENT). Questions similar to yours are posted quite regularly so please have a look if you are interested, it might give you some answers.

    This scale might give you a bit of guidance How Do I Know When it’s Time?

    There's a question on that facebook page, the owner used the scale and was still unable to decide and the vet commented:

    There are a lot of 1s and 2s on this scale … if you look at the whole picture, it's weighted towards a very poor quality of life. Some cats will continue to eat, and some cats will purr when stressed and in pain, so I would advise against using those as the sole determinants of whether he is ready to go. A cat that is not using the litter box is a stressed, sad cat. They are clean creatures. Anemia causes profound weakness, so he is probably feeling pretty crummy. They also do not (as far as we know) think about their future and what might be lost by dying — they live in the present. It's terribly hard to make this decision. I'm so sorry you and your cat are going through this. If he were my cat, I would euthanize at this stage. You are not robbing him of extra time — you are saving him from suffering.

    All the best to you and your cat, OP.

  • OMGJL on 18/03/2023 - 01:32
    +4

    first, I do observe cats are more tolerant to unwellness like pains, they don't tend to show much sign until it was very serious, so by the time you do see significant signs, your cat is probably in big pains. But on the other hand —— they may not suffer as bad with good tolerance? We will never know.

    second, cat is not that smart to know about the meaning of life and decide wither or not give up its life when it comes to un-recoverable diseases. Cat will keep survive until they are physically unable to, so it's hard to say wither or not it wants to stop living to stop its pains…..

    if I were you, I probably will let it live until it can't move properly by itself, like unable to go to toilet, unable to eat, etc.

    Also the money you need to keep it alive in good shape comes into the formula too, as harsh as this sound, it will die now or 6 months later… If you really need to spend A LOT, might be better to let it go, as least you know it had a better life with you than out there as a stray.

  • USER DC on 18/03/2023 - 01:48
    -1

    Sad to hear mate, may your cat live happy.

    Me personally I dont see a difference between Killing and euthanizing. I personally do not feel like we have rights to control other's life/death decision.

    • Mokr on 18/03/2023 - 11:21

      A car deciding not to eat is it choosing death

      • USER DC on 18/03/2023 - 19:06

        Do you often decide not to when you are sick ?

        I sure do sometime when I am sick, I just don't feel like eating.

        Nor am i thinking that time, I am going to die, or o yes I choose to die.

  • ozturtle on 18/03/2023 - 02:09
    +6

    We had to let our 20 year old cat go yesterday. She was well up until a week ago and her decline was very apparent. Loss of appetite, etc.

    We decided as her quality of life was lessening every day that it was kinder for her not to suffer through an extended period.

    So I would say that as soon as the medication no longer provides an acceptable quality of life, it is the time.

    Regardless of the eventualities, I hope you and cat have some good times ahead. They really are part of the family.

    • cookie2 on 18/03/2023 - 07:22
      +2

      I'm sorry for your loss and empathise with how difficult this must be for you, even though you knew it was coming. 20 years is longer than many relationships and friendships and the power and bond with an animal can not be underestimated. Take care.

    • pragmaticguy on 18/03/2023 - 19:01
      +2

      I'm so sorry for your loss. I know exactly how you feel. Wish we had had more time with our cat, the way she was cared for made us assume and take for granted through the years that we would have at least 15-16 years with her, when she was taken at 11 today, wow. Words can't describe. I know this too shall pass, but damn. What a tough, incredible blow. I knew it would hurt when it happened, but nothing could have prepared me for this - because this is the first cat I have cared for and owned 100% myself since she was a little kitten. She was like a child to me.

      On top of that, I don't have any family in Australia, so losing a local family member here, which is what she was to me, made it even harder.

  • cookie2 on 18/03/2023 - 07:27

    I think it comes down to, can you maintain the medicine regimen (cost wise and time/effort wise) and is the animal having a positive and enjoyable life. This doesn't mean they need to be bouncing around like they always have, we change as we get older and get slower, not always interested in the same things. But if it's comfortable, content, using the liter tray, eating etc then it's still enjoying its life and time with you. Once you can tell (or your vet tells) that the discomfort is very high, pain (that can't be treated), can't move and no way to make it feel or be better, then it's time imo.

  • Some Human on 18/03/2023 - 10:06
    +5

    Your edit made me tear up.
    I'm so sorry to hear about your cat. My condolences.

  • Kay Elle on 18/03/2023 - 11:12
    +2

    I am sorry for the loss of your clearly loved kitty. She'll always be in your heart and mind.

  • DannyC on 18/03/2023 - 11:33
    +2

    ——— EDIT : Fate removed that call from me. Got a call from the vet 3am today, we went there to find our cat in a condition no human being would accept for a loved one. So at 5am today, we let her go. Incredibly devastating. Thank you all for your input and support, it will take a while for me to recover from this.

    Sorry for your loss. I'm sure she lived the best life… R.I.P

    I have a colleague in a similar situation but their 13 year old cat had some type of cancer. Instead of doing the right thing for the cats sake the VET persuaded this colleague to spend over $8k on surgery. They did the surgery but the poor thing passed away after 3 weeks after the surgery. Some Vets really do not do what is morally right for both the animal and their human paw-rents involved.

  • jacross on 18/03/2023 - 11:50
    +2

    You made the right choice to euthanase your cat. I had my dog euthanased last year. While sad, it was a joy to provide for my dog in a way that many owners fail to due to their own selfishness. I cherish my dog's death just as I cherish it's life, and I hope in time you may come to cherish your cat's death just as you cherished it's life.

  • Guybrush57 on 18/03/2023 - 11:54

    My condolences on the loss of your cat pragmaticguy

  • Davo1111 on 18/03/2023 - 12:30

    My cat is about 12 years old. This week, she started having trouble to breath

    Stopped reading there, i think you know the answer.

    • Some Human on 18/03/2023 - 13:13
      +1

      Should have kept reading, the poor thing is in kitty heaven now.

      • Davo1111 on 18/03/2023 - 13:14

        Yeah I skim read the rest. I just meant OPs first two sentences was enough of a clue it was the right decision

  • Benoffie on 18/03/2023 - 16:58

    Just came back to check in. So sorry to hear OP! Take solace in gettng that phone call and being present.
    🙏

  • parisienne on 18/03/2023 - 20:21
    +3

    I have no words,but as Mum to a recently "had to help go to puppy heaven" due bubba,I feel your pain.Looking back,we maybe should have helped our gorgeous boy a little earlier ( but he was doing not too bad for the most part),so when he went downhill in a crashing way very early one morning,we had to help him go.Because of where we lived ( a small town on the Central Coast),no one would or could come and help us, so our poor baby had the most horrific suffering until someone from Sydney could come to help….14 hours later.Our pup never, ever cried out or barked…ever, only if he really wanted to show you something,but he cried out that night,and we knew he was telling us he wanted to go…that will haunt us forever.We do what we hope is right,try to listen to our furbubs,and listen to the vets that we trust with their lives.Just know that you did your best, loved her with everything you had,and she knew that.I am so, so sorry for your loss,and I hope the pain eases for you in the coming months… huge hugs.

  • jhlook on 18/03/2023 - 22:21
    +2

    I’m so sorry for your loss. Our cat also had heart failure, we were lucky enough to get a home visiting vet to come around so that she peacefully went at home. You definitely made the right decision

    • pragmaticguy on 18/03/2023 - 22:53
      +1

      Thank you, sorry for your loss too… how it was for you in terms of symptoms and progression ? Sorry if it is a sensitive topic, I am still trying to come to terms with how fast her symptoms progressed ! One day she was fine, she then (now I realize) seemed to progress in 3 days or so to a worrisome breathing rate and seemingly unwell (with slight changes in behaviour) and finally in just a day (already in the hospital) she basically tipped over to completely lethargic and still rapid breathing rate even with medications.

      • jhlook on 20/03/2023 - 09:16
        +1

        It was very quick, over a 24 hr period from what I recall, where she just couldn’t really move around the house and very shallow breathing. She was around 15 years old

  • Deals For Days on 19/03/2023 - 21:04
    +1

    Really sorry for your loss. Treasure those photos. Animals are so special in our lives.

  • serpserpserp on 19/03/2023 - 21:29

    We all love our pets so much. But usually it is not worth extensive medical treatment on them. Particularly when the Vet themselves are negative on the outcomes.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/03/2023 - 22:03

    Hey,

    I'm sorry to hear this, RIP Nina.

    Exactly the same as my mother's cat, she's 15 years old

    She takes a tablet or liquid twice a day absolutely hates it! But she's been going for 4-6 months now!

    If it gets worse they can give an injection, or eventually the medication won't work any longer.

    She still seems hungry and okay, but her time is coming.

    Difficult to know when they're truly suffering, but also how do you know they want to be put down.

    You do your best, until the condition seems bad and not improving.

    12 years is a good life, most animals don't get food owners either.

  • GOMOOTYPRO on 21/03/2023 - 16:57

    Cute lil baby. I feel your pain. We had to let our 19 year old go and it's never easy.

  • Hopscotchy on 25/03/2023 - 00:44

    What a beautiful little girl. Our furbabies are such special little beings, and we can never have enough time with them. I can see that Nina was one very loved little kitty. Take care.

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