• long running

Electric Vehicle Government Subsidies, Registration, Stamp Duty Discounts @ States & Federal Governments

2664

I don't know where these post belong. If Mods believe it belongs into Forum then they can remove it.
I found an article that has very good information regarding EV Incentives in Federal, States and Territory.
These post is for people that thinking of purchasing an EV vehicle and inform them about the various available incentives by Federal, States and Territory.

Federal https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislat…
Incentives
The Labor Government launched its first ever electric vehicle strategy in September 2022, and in November 2022, the Treasury Laws Amendment (Electric Car Discount) Bill passed through the Federal Parliament, which will provide up to $2000 off the purchase price of battery-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEV), as well as Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT) exemptions for fleets and novated leases.
The Government will apply the exemption retrospectively to eligible cars first used on or after July 1, 2022.
PHEVs will initially be covered, but the offer will expire on April 1, 2025.
Tax
The Luxury Car Tax threshold for low-emission vehicles has been raised to $84,916, from the standard vehicle starting rate of $71,849.
Alongside the removal of the Fringe Benefits Tax the five per cent import tariff for EVs priced under the LCT limit has been cut.
The FBT savings amount to $9000 per annum for an employer, or $4700 for an individual with a salary sacrifice agreement for a $50k electric vehicle.
Cutting import tariffs drops purchase prices by a further $2500, according to the documents.

NEW SOUTH WALES official gov. website

Incentives
$3000 rebate for the first 25,000 EVs or FCEVs sold which are priced under $68,750 – but read the fine print, the offer is on the RRP plus the delivery charge and optional extras
Stamp duty waived on both types of vehicle under $78,000 – all from September 1, 2021
EV drivers can also use T2 and T3 transit lanes across NSW

Registration fee discounts.
Tax
2.5c/km BEV, 2c/km PHEV – but only as of July 1, 2027

VICTORIA official gov. website

Incentives
$3000 subsidy given for the first 20,000 EVs or FCEVs sold which are priced under $68,740,** as with NSW the **offer is on the RRP plus the delivery charge and optional extras
Reduced stamp duty rates
$100 discount on registration annually.
Tax
2.6c/km BEV, 2.1c/km PHEV from July 1, 2022

Update: as of June 30th 2023, The Victorian government has ended this scheme.

QUEENSLAND official gov. website

Incentives
$3000 rebate for new BEVs up to $58,000 on 15,000 cars as of March 16, 2022, like the other states the **offer is on the RRP plus the delivery charge and optional extras
Lowest car registration for BEVs – $263 a year
Lower stamp duty rates than ICE cars.
Tax
No plans at this time.

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY official gov. website

Incentives
Two years’ free registration for BEVs and FCEVs as of May 24, 2021 until June 30, 2024
Older EVs eligible for 20 per cent off rego fees
Stamp duty may also be waived on vehicles purchased for the first time
ACT drivers are also able to access up to $15,000 in interest-free loans to help cover the upfront purchase cost of an electric vehicle up to a cap of $77,565.
Tax
None yet – Distance and/or congestion based charging for all vehicle types “may be considered in the medium term”.

NORTHERN TERRITORY official gov. website

Incentive
BEVs and PHEVs to get cheaper rego and stamp duty from July 2022, the latter slashed by $1500
Discounts to last five years
Grants for home, workplace and public EV chargers, and opportunities offered to develop local skills to service technology and install infrastructure.
Tax
None – No current proposal, could possibly be in the long term.

TASMANIA official gov. website

Incentives
Two years’ free stamp duty for new and second-hand EVs as of July 1, 2021
Two years’ free rego on EVs purchased by car rental companies and coach operators.
Tax
Not plans at this time, but will monitor based on what’s happening in other states.

SOUTH AUSTRALIA official gov. website

Incentives
7000 subsidies worth $3000 taken off purchase price at point of sale, for a limited (unspecified) time only up to value of $68,750 **– this one is tricky, SA says the **offer "may or may not" include the delivery charge and optional extras depending on whether it is used to calculate stamp duty
Three years' free registration for vehicles first registered from October 28, 2021 up to June 30, 2025
Up to $2000 to install EV smart chargers at home, but limited to 7500 households.
Tax
EV tax initially pushed back from July 1, 2022 to July 1, 2027 or 30 per cent uptake (whichever comes first) – same as NSW – but was repealed by the State's Parliament in February 2023 due to public backlash
Would have meant a 2c/km charge for plug-in hybrid vehicles, and 2.5c/km for any other electric vehicles
Calculated and billed in arrears as part of the vehicle registration process and based on the distance travelled since the last renewal.

WESTERN AUSTRALIA official gov. website

Incentives
EVs exempt from 10 per cent on-demand transport levy
Largest incentive offer in Australia – $3500 rebate for the first 10,000 Western Australians to buy an EV or FCEV from May 10, applying to vehicles under $70,000 before on-road costs, note the offer is on the RRP plus the delivery charge and optional extras.
Tax

EV tax to start from July 1, 2027
2c/km km for plug-in hybrid vehicles, and 2.5c/km for any other electric vehicles.

Related Stores

WhichCar?
WhichCar?
ACT Government
ACT Government
Australian Government
Australian Government
Australian Government - Support for Businesses
Australian Government - Support for Businesses

Comments

  • +28

    EVs (eg Tesla) are so overpriced in Australia especially compared that of in China.

    Tesla Y performance $95,000 in Australia vs $77,000 in China.

    • +42

      I think generalisations like that are not fair. China is the only country that got huge price drop recently (~30%).
      Australian Tesla prices are comparable with US, NZ and Europe prices and regularly beat them, if I'm not mistaken. A year ago base Model 3 price after incentives (59.990) was cheapest in the world for some time. It's not the case anymore, still is definitely not "so overpriced in Australia".

      • -8

        still is definitely not "so overpriced in Australia".

        True… overpriced everywhere.
        I mean… got to pay for twatter some how, right?

        • +1

          Hail 👑 twit

    • +11

      Can't compare both markets. There is basically no competition for the Tesla Y in Aus. while China manufactures them locally and has 20+ competing brands and models undercutting Tesla. There might be a competitor for the model 3 with the introduction of BYD Seal in Australia later this year but Seal isn't exactly winning in China either unless they reduce the price further, competition in the Chinese market is just insane.

      • I am very looking forward to BYD PHEVs coming to Australia.

      • Great, stop selling them in China, then, and send them here.

        Offering a big discount in China to move them while we're stuck on waiting lists here seems a pretty dumb call.

        • or… exercise your free market choice and just don't buy one if you don't like the price.

        • +1

          bad news: we do drive on the wrong side…..

    • Australia's import tax.

    • +1

      Could that be because they are made in China (they are) and therefore there won't be any import and shipping costs. I imagine tesla in Australia would get shipped from China therefore part of that greater expense will be shipping and import duties etc.

    • how is that overpriced!? you're speccing on a performance model, totally unreasonable.
      What kind of discounts on purchase do you need to have for a vehicle that'll get you speeding fines faster than you can count your leftover demerits?

  • +6

    Please mention that some State benefits may not be used together with FBT exemption (novated lease).

    • +1

      Which states?

      • +4

        Some states. As mentioned above

        • -4

          I understand NSW , but not Victoria (Andrews affect).
          I recently priced one up in NSW with my salary package provider and they advised not available for us NSW.
          May change with the new Labour incoming government

          • @Ok computer: Do you know what this FBT exemption is?
            How does it work with 'Novated Lease'?

            • +1

              @whyisave: Usually FBT is 20% of the price of the car excl GST when using a Novated Lease

              • @Casomme: So, is the announcement that FedGov will allow EVs
                to also be able to get this 20% exemption for novated lease?

              • @Casomme: Usually fbt is 20% of price of the car and employer is liable? Is that every year or one off liability?
                Why would some companies offer company car for employees if the company will be burdened by FBT ?

            • +2

              @whyisave: It means you're exempt from paying the fringe benefit tax while novated leasing.

              First step is to check with your employer to know if they let you salary sacrifice for a novated lease.

              • @CocaKoala: Thanks for replying.
                So, FedGov is saying EVs can also be included
                in novated leasing arrangements, with FBT exemptions?

                First step is to check with your employer to know if they let you salary sacrifice for a novated lease.

                Yes, this already happens.

                • +1

                  @whyisave:

                  So, FedGov is saying EVs can also be included in novated leasing arrangements, with FBT exemptions?

                  ONLY EVs and PHEVs are included in the scheme. If you lease a traditional internal combustion engine car you will have to pay FBT.

            • +4

              @whyisave: $3k rebate wasn't available in the quote recieved or when asked on phone.
              Also I was put off as the novated lease didn't include home charging in schedule, which would be my primary charging location..
              Also I found the novated lease charges/frequency allowed for servicing was high, when EV's are meant to be cheaper to service.
              Residual payment was around $20k for a full cost of 95k over five years for Polestar 2 ( allowed 75k)

              • @Ok computer: With a Tesla Y on a 5 year novated lease the savings are about 43k compared to buying outright with cash including the residual.

                • +3

                  @Casomme:

                  With a Tesla Y on a 5 year novated lease the savings are about 43k compared to buying outright with cash including the residual.

                  Please show your numbers, this seems like a colossal saving !

                  • +1

                    @Nom: 10% saving on GST, 37.5% saving by using pre taxed income for payments, servicing, insurance, rego etc (varies by income). So for me it saved about 43k based on 6.9% interest on the lease and assumed the cash to buy outright was in a 5% mortgage offset (mortgages are higher now). Savings can be more if you earn above 180k (0.45c per$) or you sell your old car and keep that cash in an offset account.

                    • +3

                      @Casomme: Awesome, thanks !! That definately does fall under the "colossal saving" threshold 😁

                    • +1

                      @Casomme: but what about the fees that are embedded into the novated lease packages by the novated lease administrators? The bad ones can be up to $10-15k.

                      • @Optimusprimetime: Admin is about $4 per month + interest on the lease. Definitely shop around just like anything. This is with Toyota Fleet Management.

                    • @Casomme: Isnt GST only 9.09 percent?

                    • @Casomme: You're missing a few numbers there bud. Plus, you're dealing with a novated lease company that needs to make money and they know about all these incentives.

                      • @kobeduck: I have checked the numbers against the quote and they were all fair. There are a lot of companies who rip off customers I am told.

                    • @Casomme: Who is your novated lease through mine had an effective interest rate of about 10%. They had a high monthly fee as well as a 6.9% interest rate that pushed up the comparison rate.

                      Also there insurance was about 30% over market rate.

                      It felt like they where double dipping everywhere.

                      • +1

                        @811b11e8: Shop around if you can. I checked all the numbers on mine and they were all fair. Not sure if Toyota Fleet Management have a deal with my work or not to get a good deal though.

              • @Ok computer: Check the agreement but the maintenance costs should be estimates, not actual. If you spend less than that on servicing you'll get the rest back at the end of the financial year (although you'll pay tax on it as income then)

                Worth going through the contract and FAQs, you can charge whatever servicing and consumables there are, I can pick my own insurance but some things aren't allowed (like additions to the car). If the dollar amount is different they just adjust it up and down. I'm waiting to hear back if I can get my own financing, loan.com.au works out about $100 a month cheaper pre-tax but I'm assuming this is where they make their money.

          • +1

            @Ok computer: What the FBT exemption is not available in NSW? In my quote i have the exemption.

    • Isn’t FBT a federal thing?

      • Yes hence why some State benefits are not applicable.

        Off the top of my head QLD us one of them. The $3,000 QLD gov rebate is not available to cars bought under a Novated Lease.

  • Entice everyone into electric cars then tax the shite out of them.
    Bargain.

    • Careful, you'll rouse the misguided twitter environmentalists

    • +2

      Enlighten me how? Extra tax on domestic electricity, which EV fueled on?

      • +12
        • +3

          Thank you. Gotta give it to the government for its creativity.

        • +8

          The charge amounts to $375 a year based on the national average distance travelled of 15,000km, or just $125 a year for vehicles that travel 5000km a year.

          Oh no, my EV is going to cost me an extra $375/year?!? Guess I'll just have to sell it and buy a horse…

          • +1

            @ryang: $290, as it's 2.6c/km now and you have $100 rego discount

          • +1

            @ryang: Add the 27% increase in electricity costs in Victoria on top of that. And the many more increases on electricity costs to come when more people start sucking more electricity out of the network to charge their 3 cars in the driveway. And don't give me the solar panel crap. People won't have solar panels to charge 1 car and run their appliances let alone the other 2 cars they have.

        • +2

          Yep it's totally f-ed and can't imagine the tax remaining at 2.5c/km being the main issue!

          • +6

            @drprox: Wait another few years… it will be 5c in no time and on the way to 10c

            • @hippyhippy: Operating costs of ICE cars will be $2/km by that time, who will be continuing to guarantee to sell you fuel for $1.70 a litre?

          • +2

            @drprox: The main issue is over 600 vehicles registrations cancelled in Vic last year as the owners didn't submit the paperwork for them on time or it wasn't clear photo etc. These are owners who paid there registration too.

            That's about $1200 worth of fines and voided insurance if your one of those drivers and get caught by driving by driving through toll road for example. Lots worse if your in an accident.

            Worse some of those registrations are company cars I doubt the employees are even aware.

            The tax is stupidness and a real risk for all Victorians.

            • @811b11e8:

              The main issue is over 600 vehicles registrations cancelled in Vic last year as the owners didn't submit the paperwork for them on time or it wasn't clear photo etc.

              Is there an article about that?

      • +1

        Enlighten me how? Extra tax on domestic electricity, which EV fueled on?

        You only have to think about it a little bit.
        1. Roads and related infrastructure cost money. Quite a lot of money.
        2. That money is currently earned through registrations and fuel levies.
        3. Once people stop using fuel the shortfall in levies will have to made same other way some other way.

        For bonus points, do a rough back of the napkin estimate how much it will cost to replace almost replace all of Australia's electricity infrastructure to support this transition. Now think who will be paying for that ultimately.

        • That money is currently earned through registrations and fuel levies.

          This part is completely false. Money is money, the government gets money from many sources and spends it on many sources. The linking of EVs to road maintenance etc is a political strategy designed to get support for these regressive taxes.

          • +1

            @caitsith01: You can't argue that the tax the government gets from petrol and diesel will be insignificant.

            It'll be a rather large decrease.

          • +2

            @caitsith01:

            This part is completely false. Money is money, the government gets money from many sources and spends it on many sources.

            None of this counters anything I said. If your bucket of money suddenly becomes smaller, you have to find other ways to fill you bucket back up again.

            The linking of EVs to road maintenance etc is a political strategy designed to get support for these regressive taxes.

            You forgot to mention why you think this is bad? Road wear is directly related to vehicle weight, and EV's weigh more than their ICE equivalent. It makes absolute sense that those using a service pay for it. Or are you one of those Teal Independents that wants other people to pay for your things?

          • +2

            @caitsith01: Regressive??? Electric vehicles are owned almost exclusively by middle to high income earners. In what world is taxing that group regressive.

            Yes, the government gets money from many sources. Ideally taxes should be levied on a user pays basis in order to appropriately incentivise economic activity. In this case, the fuel tax is an imperfect way to levy a user pays tax. EV owners escape that. The EV tax is intended to overcome that.

            I own an EV. I support this tax. It makes sense from an economic and public policy perspective.

            • @bobswinkle:

              Ideally taxes should be levied on a user pays basis

              What are you talking about? That's the opposite of tax, that's free market capitalism.

              Based on your theory people should pay more tax if their kids go to school (aka private schools), pay if they use public health (aka private health) etc. And I guess, e.g., disabled people should be taxed more to reflect the greater expenditure they will require over their lives…

              One of the key roles of government is actually to use its resources to do things that 'user pays' will never achieve (e.g. public health or, relevantly, action on climate change).

              The point of tax is that we collect it where there is income available, and then apply it where it's needed. We need to speed up the EV transition as much as we reasonably can, so taxing EVs is a poor approach to achieving that outcome.

              • @caitsith01: Fair, my sentence should have read 'ideally some taxes…'. Roads is one of those, because it makes sense for people who drive a lot more to pay more taxes (for example, businesses who use roads). It's an imperfect way to do it, I won't deny it for a second, but it makes more sense than socialising costs for absolutely everybody for infrastructure that many businesses profit from massively.

                We don't need to speed up the EV transition as much as we reasonably can, we need to reduce emissions as much as we reasonably can. Again, I own an EV but they're actually economically a pretty awful of way reducing emissions. There are far, far, far more cost effective ways of reducing our emissions. So throwing a whole bunch of public money at it (which is what letting people escape paying for roads like everyone else is doing) doesn't actually make sense.

                • @bobswinkle: I agree with you that there are higher priorities than cars for emissions reduction. I'm of the school that we can and should do everything at once that we can. I also think there are knock on effects, culturally the overall drive should be to decarbonise everything. We don't have time to do one thing, then the next, then the next.

                  Australia has some reaaaaally low hanging fruit available to us in the form of energy efficiency. We basically have no real standards and could save a huge amount of power usage with some modest changes, as has been demonstrated in places like California. As South Australia demonstrates, we are also more than capable of heavily shifting overall power generation to mostly renewables quite quickly.

                  But electric/hydrogen vehicles are a necessary, if not sufficient, condition to fully decarbonising. More EVs = more infrastructure + more used EVs on the market + more competition for sales = more momentum for people to buy them. At the moment they are too niche for there to be serious downward pressure on prices, which I hope changes soon.

                  • @caitsith01: Demand wildly outstrips supply for EVs and probably will for the foreseeable future. I consider it the worst possible investment in public resources as long as that is true. Until everyone who wants an EV has one, we don't need to move that dial.

                    I think the FBT exemption (which I utilised) was awful and regressive subsidisation (and therefore taxation given that money doesn't come from nowhere).

                    We're EV obsessed at the moment and it's bad. I did the maths on the tonnes of carbon my car will reduce relative to an equivalent petrol and, relative to cost, it's just not that much. Even if I only account for the cost of the battery over its lifetime AND I assume batteries will halve in cost by the time it is due for renewal, the price per tonne of carbon reduced is approximately 6 times what it would cost to reduce on the open market.

                    And that's assuming I always, without fail, charge it using renewable sources like my rooftop solar.

        • +2

          napkin serviette

          Just sayin' 😅

          • +2

            @wisdomtooth: I do my calculations on ethically sourced bark from my neighbours tree that drops on to my lawn.

        • +2

          It could actually be good for the electricity infrastructure transition.

          Every Tesla owner I know currently charges at home on solar. I know quite a few who installed fast chargers that don't get used because they pull more electricity then the solar produces. Basically waisted 5k to 15k installing them at home.

          Combine this with technology like vehicle to grid which could be standard in a few years it might actually be beneficial.

          Electricity prices have to change the idea of everyone paying a flate rate of peak and off peak will disappear. Electricity will be free during peak hours and much more expensive during peak times eventually. The market is already moving this way lots of providers offering 2 hours free electricity between midday and 2pm for example this is only going to increase as solar up take expands. The market rates will eventually controll when people charge.

          I was in Amsterdam last year and ev charging was everywhere. Every time you park your car during the day you just plug it into a drip charger. I saw chargers on lamp poles next to street charging, daycares, schools and a few other places. None of these where fast chargers that pull serious load just drip chargers.

          Ev owners don't need to fill up when empty they just top up occasionally. The average is only driven about 40km a day.

        • +3

          True but not quite.
          Federal roads are funded through the federal budget.
          State roads are mostly funded by local councils.
          Source: https://alga.com.au/policy-centre/roads-and-infrastructure/r…

          Now pls tell me, how the EV tax (state, not federal level) is going to help to fund roads? It goes to the state government budget and the right question would be - what do we get for these money?

          • +2

            @ElderyMan: Yes, federalism is a mess. You're right there. But in many cases the federal government funds roads by collecting the fuel levy then allocating that money to state governments or local councils to build. Similarly the state government independently funds road projects. Just look at the last budget papers, which spends billions on roads statewide.

            Road funding is a mess, but it's not like state government doesn't pay for roads…

          • +1

            @ElderyMan:

            State roads are mostly funded by local councils.

            You've misread your link. "While local roads are primarily funded by councils". Local and state are different.
            Three types of road: local, state and federal, the states funds state roads which are usually the wider, longer roads that have to sustain more weight and wear and tear which cost a lot more to build and maintain than your local street

            • @1st-Amendment: I agree with the statement about types of roads but if you looked into how the budget is shared, you would be surprised that the majority of road state funds (in Victoria) are coming from Commonwealth. Freeways are more expensive to maintain but local streets is the largest road network in square meters and generally requires more funding from the local councils to maintain overall.

    • +9

      To make up for the lack of fuel excise? The roads need to be paid for somehow.

      • -5

        That's not how Modern Monetary Policy works any more.

        For example, did we all pay a tax for the covid vaccination roll out/ Job keeper etc.

        No…just fire up the printer and make everything worth less.

        So no, there is no reason for an EV road tax. Taxes are to slow something down. Ie cigarettes, alcohol consumption, fossil fuel usage.

        It makes zero sense to slow down EV uptake at a time we are either being flooded, blown away or being burnt to the ground.

        Just old farts at the helm with no concern for the future generations.

        Write to your local MP and tell them an EV tax will lose your entire familys vote. Get 20 odd to digitally sign it. Worked in SA.

        • +7

          Taxes are to slow something down? WTF
          Are income taxes to slow your attempt at earning?
          Is GST to slow your purchasing?
          Is stamp duty to stop you buying stamps?
          The list goes on and on.
          Where do you think governments get the money they need to run public services…. by just printing it?
          Sorry, but… if you truly think the only purpose of tax is to deter consumption, please think a bit more about it!
          Consider solar panel rebates, government consumer affairs bodies, subsidised healthcare, police and fire, public transport etc etc etc
          Not to mention the subject of this post, which includes significant costs to state governments.
          These are a tiny spectrum of the things government need tax revenue to pay for!

          Like the comment you replied to said… in an EV you don't pay the 46cents a litre you do in an ICE. Assuming your ICE gets say 8L/100 Km, that is about 36c per kilometre, and you're petitioning about the outrage of paying 2.5c per kilometre instead??

          • +6

            @rooster7777: Sorry mate, but you need to learn your maths because your calculation of 36c/km is completely wrong.

            8L/100km means more than 12km/L. At 46c/L of fuel excise, that translates to precisely 3.83c/km of fuel excise.

            • +2

              @dealhunter52: dohh… agreed

              • +1

                @rooster7777: I've I drive a Prius I'll pay less tax then electric car. It's a stupid tax until EVs become more mainstream, the implementation of paying it also stupid.

                It was a cash grab by the state governments trying to pull future revenues from the federal government.

              • @rooster7777: Yes, then add in the GST paid on the electricity used, and you are in a similar position for an EV, worse off in a PHEV.

                So if the best case scenario is equal to fuel excise, then there is no incentive to own an EV and a decentive to purchase a PHEV.

                Tim Pallas was/ is not smart enough to see this is a problem. But he needed to convince others to pass the bill. So, the majority are not smart enough :(

            • +1

              @dealhunter52: Tax hierarchy from least to most: ICE cars with less than 5.44L/100km < EVs < ICE cars with more than 5.44L/100km

            • @dealhunter52: So if you drive 1000km interstate return trip then you are paying 38 dollars in fuel excise for that trip? Doesn't seem like much compared to tolls for bridges. Cross City Tunnel is 2km long and toll for class A vehicles is $6.50, so that's $3.25 per km, or 100 times the fuel excise. Surely that tunnel doesn't cost 100 times per km to maintain compared to the average road in the country?

              • @AustriaBargain: Tolls are charged not only to maintain roads but also to recoup construction costs, which can run into billions of dollars at times. Most of these projects are either private or public + private partnerships.

                Some toll roads are made toll free after a set amount of cost + profit is recouped.

          • @rooster7777: "Is GST to slow down spending".. well yeah, it kind of is. They wanted to have different levels of GST on different items to " control this a little bit". But really getting off course.

            At the end of the day, governments have incoming and outgoing sums. An infinite funds transfer system (that can be diluted, or reduced). The art is balancing that ledger, and growing the total faster than your neighbours, and trying to maintain equality (arguably) amongst the people.

            My point really is simply, why would you want to remove any inventive an EV brings?

            When the cost of not changing is going to cost far more? Well it already is..how many times can we cover flood and cyclone areas etc etc?

            Makes zero economic sense.

        • So many things wrong with this. Firstly, did you google monetary vs fiscal policy?

        • +1

          MMT is a crock'o'sh!t. It holds for an economy with monetary sovereignty (i.e. supremacy), which the Australian one doesn't have. Only the US, and perhaps NKorea, do, and is held at the barrell of a gun (or airplane carriers, nuclear bombs, cyber tactics, etc, etc), which is the true collateral of the petrodollar. It is true that monetary expansion does not cause inflation in a monetarily sovereign (or supreme) economy, as MMTers like to claim, but only bc monetarily supreme economies can simply export their inflation to their peripheral minions, like the US has done since the Vietnam War, when Nixon broke the gold standard precisely for that reason (which is also the reason why Washington is at war with Russia and China; bc they threaten the US' monetary supremacy).

        • Taxes can be for a bunch of reasons. Some are Pigouvian taxes (e.g. cigarettes, alcohol consumption). Some are simply revenue focussed (income, sales tax). Others are intended to allocate costs on a user-pays system. I.e. you use the good/service, you pay more for it. That's what the fuel excise and EV tax are intended to do. If you drive more, you pay more for roads. That's fair.

      • +2

        Fuel excise isn't allocated to anything. It just goes to government revenue. That lost money will have to be found somewhere else most likely in the form of a tax.

      • +1

        According to the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development, in 2013–14 (a bit dated), public sector road related revenue totalled $27.8 billion. Fuel excise contributed about $10.8 billion or 39 per cent, down from about 44 per cent in the early 2000s.

        The decline stems from more fuel efficient cars on the roads over that time, apparently. So an owner of a V8 ute is paying a lot more in fuel excise than a 4 cylinder corolla is paying more than a PHEV, and of course the EV isn't paying any fuel excise at all. If you want to go into global costs to society, you could say the lower the emissions, the less effects on health care costs form tail gate emissions (not mentioning emissions from power generation), but it gets a bit nebulous and hard to quantify.

    • +18

      yep, I'll keep driving my tax free petrol based vehicle… oh wait :/

    • +4

      Yes… because you're very happy with the obscene taxes you pay on all your fuel right?

      Many many thousands of dollars more in taxes you'll pay over the life of the car in fuel, but you've either forgotten or haven't clued into that little point yet. That's ok, I'll wait :).

      • -5

        Triggered.

        • +13

          That's your response to facts? A baseless word? Let me guess, you like using "snowflake" and "woke" as well right? You can't handle logical argument so you go for cute one liners that aren't even relevant to the conversation. You read like a Golden Book mate…. far too easy :).

          • -3

            @UFO: All that from one word. Amazing , lol.

          • +2

            @UFO:

            You can't handle logical argument

            Could you just point out which part of your post you think contains actual logic. Because I checked and couldn't see any.

          • +2

            @UFO: I think you won that little discussion hands down

      • +1

        I hope the taxes we all pay on ICE fuel become far more obscene!.
        What do you think governments do with that money? smoke it?
        Would you rather there are no roads, or perhaps no fire service, or perhaps no defence forces, or perhaps no public healthcare??
        beam me up scotty!!

        • +3

          You missed my point mate. I'm fully supportive of taxes on ICE. I was simply replying to someone oblivious to the fact he pays far more taxes than he thinks he does.

          • -3

            @UFO: Your response to the poster's "yep, I'll keep driving my tax free petrol based vehicle… oh wait :/ " seems to miss what's obvious to me… the poster KNOWS that he's paying fuel excise tax, and you missed his sarcasm.

            Your spatter of insults to the poster who said "triggered" suggests to me that you missed it twice.

            • @rooster7777: wow…. you're a special kind of special aren't you?

              I didn't reply to that comment… learn how to read the forums. As you can see my comment lines up (ie not indented) with "yep, I'll keep driving my tax free petrol based vehicle… oh wait :/"…. ie that user and I are BOTH replying to furiousgeorge's comment.

              Get a clue mate, I actually liked that above comment!

          • @UFO:

            I'm fully supportive of taxes on ICE.

            Same here. Better they legalise and tax it than force users to deal with criminals without paying tax.

        • +2

          No defence forces.

Login or Join to leave a comment