Wondering if a 3 phase EV charger will work on single phase. If not what are the setup costs, any approvals needed etc.
Tips on 3 Phase or Single Phase EV Charger
wimpykid on 04/03/2023 - 22:40
Last edited 05/03/2023 - 01:30 by 1 other user
Last edited 05/03/2023 - 01:30 by 1 other user
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Which car are you charging? It might not even have the capability to charge at 22kW AC.
How far are you travelling each day/week? You'd be surprised how little charging power you actually need and will probably be just fine with a standard 15A or even 10A power point.
This is a good point. I installed a 3phase 22kW charger at my house but find that 90% of the time I am only charging off the 10a granny charger. I get a pretty solid 1.7~1.9kW and throw it on every other day and the car is 100% by morning.
I only installed a wall charger for the times were I get caught out and need faster charging, for example, coming back from a long trip and down to 20% and having another long trip the very next day, but for the most part, the 10a wall socket charger is fine.
Yeah that’s my intent too. But I ordered a 3 phase charger and later realized that most houses have single phase only. Did you upgrade from single to 3 phase?
No, my house was already 3phase (for my AC) so I just got a 3phase unit. The other reason I got the 3phase unit was it was on sale and was the same price as the single phase unit at the time, so I just bought the 3phase unit as future proofing. (My current car doesn't even support 22kW)
Looking back on the experience, if the 3phase unit was more expensive and knowing what I know now, I would not have bought it and saved the extra $$'s for a cheaper, single phase 7kW unit.
The other thing you might be able to do, (and most 3phase units should support this), you only need to connect it up as a single phase unit. This way, it will still give you 7kW and if you move to another house that does have 3phase power, then your charger is already set up to be wired in.
@DoctorCalculon: Atto 3. It only supports 7.6kW, 32a, single phase on destination chargers.
DC it will do up to 80kW.
I’ve read that most of the time you are better off just charging to 80% (unless you need the full range).
Interesting that you don’t even use the 22kW charger. My house has 3 phase and thought a 22kW would be a natural decision, but it makes sense that you don’t really need it for overnight charging. But what’s the downside for using the 22kW charger overnight (presumably for a few hours only)?
An 80% charge limit for battery health depends on the chemistry, LFP batteries are recommended to be charged to 100% regularly:
If your vehicle is equipped with an LFP Battery, Tesla recommends that you keep your charge limit set to 100%, even for daily use, and that you also fully charge to 100% at least once per week.
Slower charging is probably better for battery health too assuming faster charging generates more heat in the battery.
A Tesla wall connector can be setup as single or 3 phase, was quoted 5.9k for a 3 phase upgrade and further 1.7k for charger install which wasn’t worth it for me, just had it installed on a single phase and limited charge rate to the max of my inverter (5kw equiv) I have 2x single phase and solar so I will always pull energy from the grid on the phase solar isn’t connected to - sparky connected up the solar phase with most of the daytime usage demands.
I thought this was one of the better articles explaining a bit how it works
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/3-phase-solar-what-you-n…
The amounts mentioned would buy a LOT of petrol.
People spend that sort of money putting accessories they never use on a car all the time. Your point is?
Try putting a fuel storage tank and a petrol bowser in at your house and see how much it costs…
For a “car enthusiast” your comments are pretty ignorant.
It’s like saying I don’t have a fridge at home as I go and buy groceries whenever I need from the local supermart every time
Why buy a fridge for home?? The amounts mentioned would buy a LOT of
petrolgroceries.I mean, why bother putting taps in your house when you can go to Coles and buy water in jugs…
Maybe you should tell your other motoring forum.
If a charger is under 2,000 why don't petrol stations install EV charges to cash in on their shop and coffee?
Because the type of charger under $2,000 is a “level 2” or what is otherwise known as a “destination charger”. It would literally take you hours to charge from on of these, so that is why you typically find them at places you are going to be at for hours, hotels, shopping centres, tourist traps, your house, etc.
The ones that get installed at fuel stations and fast food car parks are DC fast chargers and they will top your car up in under an hour, usually anywhere from 15 to 30 mins… These chargers cost up to $40,000 and need a very high capacity connection to the grid.
That’s why they don’t install that many chargers at fuel stations… the cheaper options take hours and no one is staying at a fuel station for 4 hours while their car charges, and the DC option is too expensive and the fuel station electrical infrastructure may not handle it.
No point spending the extra money on getting 3phase installed unless you have it already at your house.
Save your $$’s and just get a single phase unit installed on a 32a circuit. It will still charge at around 7kW, and for most people, that will fill their car from empty to full overnight.
Even cheaper option would be to just get a 15a outlet installed and get a portable charging brick that does 15a. You don’t need a high capacity charger if you plug the car in at the end of each day unless you are doing 300+km each day. If you are doing under 100km/day, just use a 10 or 15a charging brick.
Even cheaper option would be to just get a 15a
Considering most household outlets are 10A rated, if you are paying a sparky to install a 15A dedicated circuit, are you not better off paying that little bit extra to install a 32A circuit (for future proofing / if you start doing long drives)?
For me, getting a 15a outlet installed was half the price of getting 32a socket installed. The cabling for 32a is a lot thicker and way more expensive than 15a.
If you go a wall box, 100%, just get 32a wiring installed. If you just want a neat plug on a wall and only use a brick, go 15a.
Hey @pegaxs, just wondering if you have a link for the 15a charger you bought for your atto 3? I'm considering following your lead and getting the BYD and have a 15a plug that sits comfortably next to where my current Outlander PHEV sits.
@madseason: While I do not recommend doing this, as it will upset someone, but I ordered mine from AliExpress. It does 8, 10, 13 and 15amp charging, so it makes for a good travel charger as well (if you go somewhere that only has 10a outlets, you can run it back down to 10 or 8a).
It is up to you if you want the risk of running a charging brick that is not ASNZ approved with blue ticks or whatever the standard is. I got mine mega tested at work and have used it multiple times at both 10 and 15amps and it works well. I bought from a reputable store on AliExpress and not some store with a name like "Shop11049082354928" that sells clothes, toys, and incidentally, EV chargers.
I have found that most of the charging bricks offered by Australian EVSE sellers are just the same unit that I bought off AliExpress… just with different badges on them and a 150% markup on prices.
I believe now that the chargers handed out with new Atto 3's is the same as the NZ charger, and that is an 8a charging brick. Because mine was one of the first into the country, I have the original 10a charging brick.
@pegaxs: Cheers for the info, I'll check out the prices of the AU/NZ standards vs the aliexpress and see if it stacks up. Just to clarify, you mentioned being able to use it travelling around, does this mean that the end has the normal household 10a plug size but it can pull more juice from wall, unlike the 15a plugs which have the extra long earth pin and can only be used in a 15a larger plug size?
@madseason: The one I have came with a 10A plug on it, so it can be used in any standard gp outlet. 10A plugs will fit into 15A outlets, but not the other way. I think this is a reason you need to be careful not to plug this into a 10A outlet and accidentally leave it set to 15A. But it is a good unit if you go somewhere, like a caravan park that offers 15A outlets in their caravan bays that you can hire.
Pointless… you would need a single 100a convertor to get 32a 3phase output, and most houses are only 100a total load. So, you could basically run either the house OR the charger, but not both at the same time.
Added to that is the cost. A single phase to 32 amp, 3 phase converter is going to set you back about $10k+.
I have looked a fair bit into wall chargers- I have single phase only at home, prepping for an EV.
I will be granny charging only when I'm home. There are a few factors that I'd probably want to think about wall chargers.
- Are you likely to need to charge from basically 0 to full overnight? If you are generally just topping up or aren't doing a long trip every day, granny is probably enough- (I expect I'll only need to plug in on weekends or MAYBE one weekday most of the time even if I can't plug in at work).
- Do you have solar and want to fast charge off that sweet sweet free power while the sun's up- might be worth a look at a charger (no solar for me yet)
2a. Does the power company have a really tight off-peak timeframe with really good deals? See above (no off peak here) - Do you have access to charging at work that could become your "default" top up location (assuming it wouldn't make you a charger hog or its not a Tesla supercharger that comes with Elon tax)? (free charger at work for me though you pay for parking).
Nope, two phases short.
Those two phases can be rather costly to add to an existing premises, at a ballpark say $5k give or take a $1k each way (likely the higher side) depending on distance from main to switchboard, existing switchboard suitability, and electricians costs including L2 electrician for supply mains side of things.
Summary, get a 1 phase charger and deal with the slower peak charge ability