Ordered (Will Soon Own) an MG ZSEV on Novated- AMA

Lseannami on 02/03/2023 - 13:24
Last edited 02/03/2023 - 14:52

Inspired(?) by PegXS's BYD thread and by the various EV discussions etc, I thought I might throw my use case into the ring. I have ordered an MGZSEV through Novated lease (fully salary sacrificed)- an Excite model. Inviting questions and discussions around my use case if anyone wanted information before diving in, so ask me (almost) anything.

My use case- I'm female in a household of one. This will be my only car- taking over from a 13-14 year old Prius. I have a combination of working from home, PT commuting and drive-commuting with some longer distance site visits for work. Commute depends where I am working on a particular day, but will be 30-60kms each way with longer runs being around 100-250kms (Melbourne to regional towns). This plus the usual run around trips of course.

I will not be getting a home charger initially and will granny charge overnight. No solar. I also have access to free fast charging at work (when you can get in- though parking is paid) and potentially trickle charge (not sure yet). No aftermarket anything going on except a dashcam and a seat cover/floormat package I got at Supercheap. The car has an ETA of late March-early April (I am working on a mid-April assumption in this case).

I say ask me (almost) anything because I'm politely asking you to leave geopolitical (read anti-China) stuff at the door- I'm here to talk about a car.

Fire away!

Automotive Car Electric Vehicle MG SUV

Comments

  • Leadfoot6 on 03/03/2023 - 11:54
    -2

    Yes, China used to be on our side in WW2, when Japan was an enemy.

    But the situation has changed.

    Japan is now a partner in attempting to contain the potential aggression of China.

    Mitsubishi elected to build some models in Australia for many years, where the money largely stayed here.

    They never made a profit, despite their hundreds of millions of dollars invested over the decades.

    Money came in…..it never went back out.

    Lots of jobs for Australian workers.

    That was a good result for Australia.

    And there is no need to link to what you did.

    My father had to dive off the gangplank of a ship he was serving on as an RAN member of the DEMS(mentioned twice in the book linked to below) in Darwin Harbour in 1942 to avoid falling bombs.

    DEMS? WHAT'S DEMS?
    MARCUS, Alex

    https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/DEMS-MARCUS-Alex-Bris…

    He volunteered to serve in June 1940, and served until after VE Day.

    In my garage, is his tin helmet that got wet with salt water and is partly rusted away from the immersion as a result of his excursion overboard.

    Of course, If China was not threatening Taiwan or other near neighbours with military force, we would not be having this discussion.

    • Manny Calavera on 03/03/2023 - 21:27
      +1

      Never made a profit, lol.

      Do you know how much dodgy shit these multinationals do with their books?

      • Leadfoot6 on 03/03/2023 - 21:57
        -1

        Um, do you really think that if the long term cash flow was positive they would have kept producing after 2008?

        Instead, they shut up shop and became purely an importer because they were not making money as a manufacturer.

        […..]

        "The Mitsubishi 380, the successor vehicle to the Magna, raised hopes for the future of MMAL when launched. Hopes stemmed from the sales success that the Magna experienced when it was launched and the fact that the Australian automobile market was growing at the time. However, the 380 sold poorly from its introduction and failed to meet expected sales targets. This resulted in a reduction in daily production volume from 180 to 50 vehicles per day, along with further reductions in the workforce."

        […..]

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Motors_Australia#Ce…

        It is rather difficult to survive in the longer term when your production schedule has been costed based on making 180 cars a day, but your actual result is only 50 per day.

      • Baysew on 23/06/2023 - 11:53

        Do you know how much dodgy shit these multinationals do with their books?

        Yes.

    • Speckled Jim on 04/03/2023 - 14:10

      I'm politely asking you to leave geopolitical (read anti-China) stuff at the door- I'm here to talk about a car.

      It's written in English.

      You want to bash China in a free market economy? lol. Build a time machine, go back to 1972 and prevent, disrupt or destroy US multi-departmental report NSSM-200. It was released in 1974 and the relevant bit was engaging China to make future landfill for the US and beyond.
      Do that and this topic would disappear.

      • Hackney on 11/04/2023 - 18:11

        Well said.

  • Tomcruise on 03/03/2023 - 13:02

    Sorry.

  • vice on 04/03/2023 - 09:44

    Thanks OP for sharing your experience had missed this tax change - taking delivery on a model y in the next couple weeks you’ve saved me a considerable amount! For those who live in 37 or 45% tax bracket and don’t see moving employers in next 4-5 years this is an absolute no brainer vs paying cash, as long as finance rate is acceptable requires a bit of back solving to work out.

    • seannami on 04/03/2023 - 09:48

      My NVL place was very open about interest rate (9.66%). Can see if I can find a PDS or something if it helps anyone negotiating-running out the door rn but can see what I can do when I get home

      • vice on 04/03/2023 - 09:49
        +1

        All good mine is via a big 4 bank staff benefits approx 6% cheers

  • world2160 on 06/03/2023 - 10:17

    NSW has a $3000 cashback incentive for buying an EV. I've read that Novated Leases are not applicable for the cashback.

    So got to deduct $3000 to the benefits.

    • seannami on 06/03/2023 - 10:32

      I'm in Victoria and the rebate for us happens at the point of sale, so it was part of the purchase price of the car for us- admittedly is was close to negated by the dealer delivery and other costs, but its saved me maybe… $500? Drop in the bucket through all the other savings though.

      Sounds like its different in every state- Vic gets a rebate even with NVL, but gets a usage tax :p. My novated is currently calculated for 10k kms/annum (the lowest starting point) but I doubt I'll do anywhere near that much.

  • world2160 on 06/03/2023 - 15:32

    I've just got a quote from NVL. This is for the BYD Atto 3 extended model. i have cash in offset account. I wanted to do a comparison between: 2 years versus 4 years versus CASH.

    I have never done NVL before. Is this worth it??

    Car is $51k outright cash from BYD.

    Quote 1 (2 years):
    439.92 per fortnight
    = $22,875.84 net deductions (after 2 years)
    Residual payment =$31,554.33

    Total cost of full ownership: $54,430.17

    Quote 2 (4 years):
    $360.65 per fortnight
    = $37,507 net deductions (after 4 years)
    Residual payment =$21,036

    Total cost of full ownership: $58,543

    • seannami on 06/03/2023 - 15:39

      What does the fortnightly quote include? 360.65/4 years sounds like it would have a few running costs in there so the total cost of ownership is car+running

      • world2160 on 06/03/2023 - 17:03

        Includes:
        - Rego ($19/ fortnight)
        - Comprehensive insurance ($57/fornight)
        - CTP ($19/ fortnight)
        - 4 replacement tyres ($10/fortnight)
        - service/maintenance ($12/fortnight)

        All up = 12,168 / 4 years

        This means i am comparing:
        - (NVL 4 years): $58,543
        - cash outright: $51,000 + 12,168 - 3000 (NSW cashback) = 60,168

        I save a grand total of $1625.

        hmm…. not sure….

        • seannami on 06/03/2023 - 17:17

          Does the cost outright include onroads? It worked out to roughly $6k over 5 years in Vic.

          Do you know how much that $51k is saving you in interest in the offset, since that would also be 'saved' if you went NVL?

          • world2160 on 06/03/2023 - 17:22

            @seannami: yes, the cash outright price is driveaway price (i.e. includes everything to go on the road).

            Yes you are right, i would save another $2,000 based on 5% home loan rate. So i save around 5k max by any calculations.

  • seannami on 08/03/2023 - 15:01

    Adding FBT exemption information link, which includes reportable fringe benefits since its come up a couple of times https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=AFS/EV-FBT/00…

    Nutshell is RFB changes what benefits and surcharges that may apply to you (its calculated at the higher rate grossed up, which will be a little higher than your pre-Novated wage), but doesn't effect your taxable income (after the novate) if you fully salary sacrifice for an EV- so you pay tax on your post-novated income, but are means tested on your RFB income.

    If you have Centrelink coming in or have a giant HECS debt, this should be accounted for in the decision

  • seannami on 14/03/2023 - 14:02

    Mini-update-> called MG to get an idea of ETA, it's currently in build and we are looking at early April assuming the ports don't get any worse :)

    NVL company also called to offer to help sell the old car. I'm not selling so have no idea how that would work, but its something they offer.

    • donamique on 19/03/2023 - 14:56

      Hey OP thanks for sharing. I'm thinking of going with SG Fleet too, but the interest rate they've quoted is meant to only be fixed on the date of delivery, would you be facing the same and wonder how much uncertainty there is around this?

      • seannami on 19/03/2023 - 15:10

        I didn't see anything on that in my quotes. The finance was approved at the time of ordering, so that would suggest the rate was fixed then. The car is due in 3ish weeks so will let you know if anything changes in the final paperwork.

        It may also depend on employer deals, some people here are getting different interest rates or companies based on employer.

        • donamique on 19/03/2023 - 16:24

          Yea it doesn’t say that on my quote from sg fleet either - just interest rate:9.xx%, and I’ve got the finance approved as well. The topic only came up as I asked the staff about the rate, and they said at delivery the rate will be updated and can decide then if want to sign the final paperwork or not

          Also at least for home loans, finances get approved before settlement of the loans and rates might have moved higher at settlement? Not 100% sure

          • seannami on 19/03/2023 - 18:04
            +1

            @donamique: I'm not sure either, rates weren't budging when I signed :s. I might e-mail the SG agent and ask him (he's been very patient with my daft questions so far!)

            • donamique on 19/03/2023 - 18:25

              @seannami: Yea the agent I had was also very patient in answering my questions going from 0% understanding of novated lease to what I know now, appreciated that from them. The yearly management fee for them looked awfully low for what they're providing in terms of manhours.

              • seannami on 20/03/2023 - 09:26

                @donamique: I got a reply- the interest rate will change until the date the car is picked up, so the final payments will go up (probably one more raise before I pick up, but the RBA might skip next month, who knows!)

                • donamique on 20/03/2023 - 09:40

                  @seannami: Thanks for the update so I know there is someone in the same boat. Not sure if novated lease rates are tied very much to cash rates as there's a huge margin to work with, and wholesale rates (which may or may not be sensitive to cash rate changes) may have a part to play as well.

                  I think we can at least get some comfort around the fact that others are being quoted ridiculous rates on novated leases right now (e.g. 12-15%).

                  Hope my question helped prevent that shock on delivery date when the interest rate on your paperwork is different than expected! And maybe you can budget with a bit of buffer to allow for variability in interest rates on delivery (which you'll be fixed with for the lease term afaik).

                  • seannami on 20/03/2023 - 09:42

                    @donamique: It has, thank you! I've asked to get an idea of the current rate so I can have a good idea how much it may have changed, but I might throw a bit extra onto the budget to cover my backside til I know the final rate :)

                    • seannami on 20/03/2023 - 15:36

                      @seannami: Current rate is 0.22% above when I signed, so maybe looking at 9.9% by next month when the car comes- maybe $1-2 a fortnight more

    • [Deactivated] on 19/03/2023 - 19:18

      Mini-update-> called MG to get an idea of ETA, it's currently in build and we are looking at early April assuming the ports don't get any worse :)

      so just on this part here I also got another question if I may.

      what's your understanding on the lease payment (on which I believe interest rate would have been incorporated in this element), considering that ETA is 04/2023 and as we know interest rate steadily increasing? I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't believe you're locked in at that lease payment rate and assume closer to delivery, they will reissue another quote, which hopefully has lower interest rate therefore lower lease payment but most likely it would be on contrary?

      EDIT: I think this has been covered above. I'm sorry to ask the exact same thing. Please ignore.

      • seannami on 19/03/2023 - 19:23

        I've emailed the NVL company to check what is happening with the interest rate, though unless the car itself gets cheaper I doubt the quote will! Since the MG4 was announce it has actually gone up slightly, so that's probably not on the card. I'll let you know when I hear back what happens with the final outgoings at pickup- though it may only apply to SGFleet.

  • Hackney on 21/03/2023 - 06:25

    Notice a report has been issued (in China) ranking quality of vehicles built there.Honda(Dongcheng) ranks #1 VW(Jetta) #2.Mitsubishi #3.MG is 43rd.Not particularly good.Parts especially in this country can be an issue as there is a separate supplier for these.Excellent video by ‘Redriven’ on YouTube on the MG in regards to issues & quality.Hardly inspiring. One has only have to go on the FB owners group to see the amount of issues with them.Transmissions seem a bone of contention.Are they a good buy? That is for the prospective buyer to work out.As far as EVs go that are manufactured in China, Tesla ranks #19th.

    • seannami on 21/03/2023 - 07:58

      I understood when I ordered it I wasn't exactly going top of the line here. I wanted an EV and had a sub-$55k budget, which brought my options down quite a bit. I have been on a few owners forums specifically for the EV models (primarily UK based) and watch a fair few review videos (hadn't gotten to Redriven though). A LOT of the 'issues' seem to come from people assuming a $50k EV is equivalent in 'luxury' to a $50k ICE, when a better comparison is a $25-30k ICE. Main issues (counting out the 'not luxury enough' ones) being reported are:

      Range loss in extremely cold weather (probably unlikely to be an issue)
      Squeak of the rubber seal around the windscreen and sunroof (easy fix found, and I have no sunroof)
      Entertainment system's built-in software is crap (Android auto will be used)
      All your settings reset when you turn the car off (ok, this will be annoying)
      The emergency autobrake/ lane keep is hyper-sensitive (this happens in a lot of cars apparently, but you can turn the sensitivity down or off)
      And some other issues that primarily came down to people not knowing how some things worked- Jerry Pan in NZ did a great series on the little niggles and features in the ZSEV.
      Occasional bricking if you try a broken fast charger too many times on SOME cars (Has a relatively quick fix of popping the - on the 12 volt off for a couple of seconds if you are really stuck, or MG has roadside for charger/battery issues but also…. if the charger is broken, why keep trying?).

      The most concerning for me was an occasional car getting a crack in the steering column on 2021 or very early facelift/2022 models- around 16 from the entire forum. This usually ended up with a free swap out to a newer steering column and the issue went away. Since mine is being built new it's probably going to get the new column. There was also a click for a long time prior to any catastrophic failures. Being 16 in a forum (most of whom had models that would have been built around the same time) and bearing in mind that 90% of the internet is whinge or people being hyper-defensive, that's not terrible odds.

      In the end, if I only have it for the life of the lease and it ends up on the second hand market, that's fine, maybe by then I can afford something a bit higher up the food chain. Getting EVs on the second hand market is the whole point of this exercise anyway. I'm also unlikely to do a crazy amount of driving, and I have driven some whoppers in my time… I had a Daewoo that dropped the bottom of its radiator driving down Plenty rd. I'm also not fussed about depreciation, nothing has value until you sell it and IF I do sell it in 5 years to take on another lease (or whatever) then all it needs to do is cover the residual.

      TL;DR: I know its not going to be top quality, can't really afford top quality right now, but I have done my research and I know what I'm getting into. The main thing is that I would encourage anyone looking into ANY car to do their research and don't buy sight unseen or without checking reviews, forums and a testdrive first. I'll keep you posted for as long as the thread is active on any issues that come up :).

      • Hackney on 21/03/2023 - 08:10

        Did you ever consider a late model Corolla or similar?Resale is never going to be an issue.MG depreciation is horrendous.

        • seannami on 21/03/2023 - 08:17
          +1

          I was after an EV for environmental and petrol cost reasons. I would have looked at a new hybrid/Phev something if the FBT exemption wasn't in the mix- Corolla was on the list- but that would have just delayed moving to EV and I would have had to go the cheap end then anyway. This way I get to move to EV for half the fortnightly outlay I would have had on a Corolla (financed either way).

          I'm not bothered about depreciation, I am buying a car to drive not to invest in, and as long as it covers residual in the event I sell at the end of the lease, less fussed. Gives a nice cheap EV to a student/low SES family. I know this is the wrong site to be pushing the "homes/cars are a need not an investment" philosophy, but that's where I sit :).

          • Hackney on 21/03/2023 - 08:27

            @seannami: Same for me, depreciation never comes into it, especially if you are keeping a vehicle for the long run, if not, then it definitely comes into play.I ended up going down the Hybrid path, just think @ present they are the sweet spot.Best decision I ever made.

            • seannami on 21/03/2023 - 08:36

              @Hackney: I have had my hybrid for 8 years (parents had it for 5 years before that) and she's great, so I felt like it was my time to go the next low/no petrol stage. I definitely wouldn't have gone back to full ICE

  • seannami on 11/04/2023 - 11:09
    +1

    Still waiting- I dropped off the plates to the dealer (VicRoads is just up the road from the dealer and the plates are sort of heirlooms, so they were transferred to me and the Prius reregistered- much cheaper option than transferring the Prius then re-transferring it on sale thanks to the required roadworthy and stamp duty for each transfer :s). Delivery estimates are a bit in the pan because of the state of the docks. Speaking to the dealer, many companies are refusing to deliver to Victorian ports (and maybe NSW?) and are shipping to Adelaide or Brisbane and trucking them down. So either she's coming very soon via Adelaide or Brisbane or she's stuck in the ports for an unknown timeframe :p. Dealer said they have cars in dock that arrived in early Feb still waiting for process and delivery.

    I have pre-bought a load of accessories (my first proper new car an I went a little overboard) as well as the aforementioned covers and mats:

    Dashcams (one Navman on sale at JB for the front, and a cheap Essos for the back), no hardwire kits. There is a USB slot in the rearview mirror for dashcams and I'm not likely to need the rear 12v for anything else.
    Boot liner, $15 Coles special buy. Might need to be cut around the wheel wells but eh, it was $15
    Safety kit (glass breaker, keyring spanner, belt cutter)
    Car bin
    Small LED switch lights from Bunnings. Much like many cars it doesn't have a back seat light and the boot light is apparently kinda blah.
    Dust cover (hatchback size)- there are times I don't touch the car for a couple of weeks (might change if when not paying petrol and get cheaper work parking at the charger, it might not) and an open garage that is a dust tunnel. Likelihood of me not bothering in a few months is high, but hey, new car :p
    Phone related paraphernalia and the usual windscreen shades to replace the saggy kmart thing I've had for 10 years or so.

    Hopefully my next update will be able to include a link to a walkaround video :p

    • Hackney on 11/04/2023 - 12:10

      Just as a matter of interest, how many Kms did the Prius have on it? Cheers.:)

      • seannami on 11/04/2023 - 12:36
        +1

        Sitting at around 94,000. I don't drive far often. My parents will probably drive it a bit more before it's moved on, avoid the /km Victoria tax for a while!

        • Hackney on 11/04/2023 - 12:38

          That tax is a rort! Glad I don’t live down there!

    • seannami on 11/04/2023 - 14:29

      May have spoken too soon? The NVL documents just arrived….

      • seannami on 18/04/2023 - 18:09

        She is in the country. This means nothing in terms of dates. Could be tomorrow, could be June…

        Also turns out the rebate was not built into the car's price, so the NVL person got a REALLY good deal on the car

  • seannami on 21/06/2023 - 13:06

    I can FINALLY become a thread necromancer because the car is in dealer and I should be able to pick it up next week. I don't know if I should start a brand new AMA for the car itself, but I'll start here.

    I have already received an email from VicRoads asking me for my odometer reading for the Victoria Tax (ZLEV road usage payment) and "Any days between when the vehicle is first registered in your name and when you submit your opening reading will be calculated based on your average daily use."… so they are charging me to have it sit in the dealer before I even have the thing. It has been registered for less than a day.

    The rebate is also being applied for as we speak. I have also just put in a request to have my overnight power switched to a cheap tariff as an EV owner (9c midnight to 6am with powershop). Checking to find the best option for putting a timer on the clothes dryer to start at midnight along with the dishwasher, washing machine and car. I have put a smartplug on the garage powerpoint.

    The car took a grand total of 5 months to arrive- it was in compound for 3-4 weeks, in port for a month and a half. The dealer pre-del stuff (mostly paperwork for the NVL by the sounds) will take about a week. Still waiting on the NVL final schedule.

    In answer to an inevitable question- if I had known it would take an extra 2 months, would I have ordered an MG4 instead? Potentially- the mid range essence (want 360 cameras, do not need long range). Would I have ordered a Dolphin? No, not without driving it first and even then, wasn't a fan of the Atto as much. I have also since had the chance to ride in a Tesla and… not that either. Nice enough car, but there are features missing and things that bugged me for the price.

    Tl;Dr: Car coming, VicRoads greedy, EV owner Tariffs spiffy

    • Leadfoot6 on 21/06/2023 - 20:24
      -4

      Too short;Do read:
      China thanks you for your contribution to the Taiwan invasion fund.
      Dictator Dan also thanks you for your contribution via the "Belt & Road" initiative.

      Leadfoot6 on 21/06/2023 - 20:24 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
    • Hackney on 22/06/2023 - 08:36
      +1

      @Seanami.There is no doubt about it, they are coming ahead in quality terms in leaps and bounds.You know the Chinese vehicles are a threat when the Japanese auto makers made a statement like that.

      • seannami on 22/06/2023 - 08:44
        +1

        Indeed, and when you can get features in a $50k car (c.f. 360 parking cameras, full pilot safety tech) that don't start appearing in "brand" cars until the 70k+ range, there's definitely a reason for other mainstream manufacturers to pause for thought. And with the upper end MG4 and it's 1-100 in 3.3 inches, maybe some of the more luxury/nuanced brands as well.

        MG have a sports car EV on the horizon too, so that might shake up that end of the market too.

    • Manny Calavera on 23/06/2023 - 13:03

      Anyone know when we're due for the ruling on that EV tax? It must be soon.

      • seannami on 23/06/2023 - 13:29

        Yeah, should be pretty soon- doesn't seemed to have been any news since Feb/March

  • seannami on 04/07/2023 - 16:18
    +4

    She's here- picked her up yesterday and drive her to work, and have been running errands today. She drives very very light compared to the Prius (which felt like a brick in comparison). Yet to do a charge, but that will happen tonight. Still getting used to some things about it, but ready for questions if you have them.

    • Speckled Jim on 05/07/2023 - 08:51

      Thanks for seeing it through and updating.

      Nowhere near migrating to EV myself, but curious to know the make/model of tyres fitted and how they fare. They might be slippy at first (common with new tyres). Wondering if China can pull off a low rolling resistance Eco tyre with decent performance.

      • seannami on 05/07/2023 - 09:50

        Tyres are Maxxis M3 Bravo. They've been fine so far, one slip coming out if the dealer but I may have hit oil or grass on the chipped gutter. I'm also not used to the way the car kicks off (Prius you had to floor to get it to move, this one just goes) so I might have taken off too hard!

        It's been fairly wet and I've driven some windy roads, haven't felt any slipping or anything like that. The steering is very light and being high and heavy the car felt a little swingy in the winding gorge, but that might be something I need to get used to to adjust my driving.

      • seannami on 25/10/2023 - 07:20
        +2

        Some thread necromancy to re-answer this since we've had a load of rain and I'm driving a bit more confidently. This thing takes off pretty well, but do NOT take off hard in the rain. I made the mistake once (I'm usually a really cautious and slow take off) and fish tailed like a hoon. If you tend to be a bit more of an aggressive/strong driver and take off a bit harder, I'd get the tyres switched out. This was at about 3500kms on the odo so might be past the new car slip by now.

  • childchance on 30/07/2023 - 19:16

    What's your final interest rate on the NL? Thinking of getting an EV but don't want to lock myself at the current interest rate for the next 4-5 years…
    Would you know what happens if I NL for 1 year only? Am I able to renew this annually like a lease?

    Cheers

    • seannami on 30/07/2023 - 20:22
      +2

      Final rate was 10.36% (RBA put it up a couple of times between quote and delivery). You can get the lease for 1 year, then lease the remainder.

      You make a good point about the rate, but at this point for me knowing what I'm paying for 5 years (and paying everything pre-tax) felt more comfortable than betting on a rate drop in a year, but YYMV.

      Of course, the insurance has a fixed renewal of tomorrow and the premium went up (cause of course it did), but it only equated to about $5/fortnight on top pre-tax

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