Issue with Westpac Credit Card Chargeback

Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 14:32

We purchased a couple of health food items from a .com.au website in August last year. The total was just over $100 and the website was registered to an Aussie seller and address so we assumed we'd have the products within a week or so. Unfortunately after a week we were sent a tracking number that showed that the items were being drop shipped from China. Although not happy about this at all and despite asking the seller to cancel the order (no reply was received for this request), we waited and unfortunately the items never came. Additionally the merchant's website was taken down.

Thinking this would be a straight forward case to get our money back, we commenced an item not received dispute via our credit card provider Westpac. After considerable time had passed and after we contacted their dispute resolution service they 'temporarily' found in our favour. However now some 6 months after the purchase they have reversed this, despite there being no evidence that the items were ever delivered.

My question is, has anyone had a similar experience and what steps did you take to resolve it? Would AFCA be the best place to take this? We just cannot believe that our bank would not back us up, when everything clearly points to fraud.

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Comments

  • anna10 on 28/02/2023 - 14:43
    -6

    Could you also start one with eBay apart from Westpac?

    • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 14:47
      +1

      Unfortunately it wasn't a purchase made on Ebay, but on an Australian website which no longer exists

      • HardQuiz on 28/02/2023 - 15:01
        +1

        Did they have an ABN/ACN ?

        My understanding, they can’t have a .com.au domain without an ABN/ACN.

        You should add this to your documentation when appealing the bank’s decision or when submitting to AFCA.

  • Drakesy on 28/02/2023 - 14:47

    Sounds like the money is gawn

    After considerable time had passed

    I think there's your answer

    • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 14:52

      I don't think it's gone, because the dispute is still ongoing / was restarted

  • mskeggs on 28/02/2023 - 14:47
    +5

    I had cause to use Westpac chargeback for the first time in 20 years in 2022, and the system is broken.
    Our card was used for half a dozen transactions in another state presumably cloned, plus a $1000 cash advance across a counter of a Sudanese bank.
    Waited on hold for hours several times. Some transactions were reversed, others got an automated “the information you provided indicates you authorised the transaction”.
    I ended up writing to the CEO, and his team called me, reversed the charges as a “goodwill” gesture.
    They didn’t do any investigation from the conversations I had, just the computer said no.

    • Drakesy on 28/02/2023 - 14:49
      +4

      Your case is different to the OP's in that the OP did authorise the transaction

    • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 14:51
      +1

      This might be the best course of action. I just don't understand that whoever is processing the charge backs cannot see that the tracking number does not show delivery and that the website we bought from no longer exists. It's almost like they'd rather side with the other party, even though we have been loyal Westpac customers

      • lostgoat on 28/02/2023 - 15:00
        -1

        Maybe your initial reason for the charge back of not being sent in Oz was not a justified reason for the action .

        • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 15:05
          +1

          No, that wasn't the reason for the charge back. The reason was that the goods were not delivered. What I don't understand is that the dispute can be restarted by the merchant without compelling evidence (tracking number) that delivery was made.

      • trapper on 28/02/2023 - 17:04

        It's almost like they'd rather side with the other party

        It's probably once they realised there is no chance of recovering money off the other party.

      • reactor-au on 01/03/2023 - 08:41

        They default to side with "the transaction is valid" because visa and Mastercard fine whichever bank proves in error. So your bank and the merchants bank volley each other to avoid getting fined.

    • djsweet on 28/02/2023 - 14:51
      +2

      Did you leave them for another bank?

      • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 14:53

        Too much hassle at the moment to be honest. But we'd potentially consider it. I'm not sure other banks would be better in this regard?

        • firestormx on 28/02/2023 - 15:31

          Had to do 2 chargebacks many years ago (may be around 10?) with NAB and the process was pretty smooth. Just filled in the form online and added attachments. Both chargebacks were found in my favor.

      • mskeggs on 28/02/2023 - 14:54
        +1

        Yes, but still haven’t moved everything. I had personal, business, SMSF and credit cards with them, plus mortgage. Still have a couple of accounts to churn.

        • jv on 28/02/2023 - 15:01
          -8

          SMSF

          Albo is coming after that… Best move that first.

          • HardQuiz on 28/02/2023 - 15:05
            +4

            @jv: Albo is after your super if it..

            exceeds $3 million.

          • SBOB on 28/02/2023 - 18:28
            +4

            @jv:

            Albo is coming after that…

            When you get all your news from talk back radio, it's understandable why you'd be confused about possible changes being debated

            Strange though that the shock jocks running those talk back sessions are all in the group it would impact, while every caller would be in the group that wouldn't be..

  • garetz on 28/02/2023 - 15:02
    +1

    I've never heard of a charge back being reversed before, not much you can do about it except take your business elsewhere.

  • Baysew on 28/02/2023 - 15:05

    Have you contacted Westpac again and what did they say?

    • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 15:11
      +1

      Yep, as soon as we noticed that the charge back had been reversed we wrote to their dispute resolution service. Heard nothing back yet. Just don't want this to keep dragging on, which is why I'm considering AFCA, although I understand that is also a drawn out process. The whole thing makes me wary of buying online to be honest

  • burningrage on 28/02/2023 - 15:10

    I have never had any Chargeback reversed although I did note in recent times many T&C changes were relating to Chargebacks so maybe the scheme has been tightened up a bit.

    • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 15:14

      Yeah i don't know. Just seems odd that someone can prove that an item was not delivered (via the tracking number supplied by the merchant) and also that the website has been taken down, yet not get any help from the bank.

  • Meho2026 on 28/02/2023 - 17:11
    +3

    You need to lodge a complaint with Westpac. Briefly state that 6 months ago, you initiated a chargeback for goods not received and you havent been reimbursed.
    At this stage, dont go into anymore detail than that. Keep it very simple.
    Then you state the amount was $100 and if you are not reimbursed you will lodge a complaint with AFCA.
    They will pay you because its cheaper than paying for an AFCA investigation.

    • Roman Sandstorm on 28/02/2023 - 17:26
      +2

      Stop it!

      Yet another response offering sensible advice. This is the third I've seen on OzB this month.

  • Cluster on 28/02/2023 - 17:29
    +1

    This is a very strange situation. I've only ever done one chargeback, and that was against a business that absolutely refused to be contacted and ignored all my emails to cancel the subscription. Found in my favour, and it wasn't reversed.

    File a complaint with Westpac. The problem you may run into is that postal tracking information disappears after a while. Hopefully you've kept a copy of all relevant documents.

    • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 19:04

      The tracking is still showing as if the item was sent but then disappeared along the way somewhere. Certainly no delivery.

  • bcarp on 28/02/2023 - 19:02

    I don't know exactly what happens in the background of a chargeback, but my understanding is that this is managed by your bank and the merchant bank. If either party refuses the chargeback, then it can go to Mastercard/Visa as the final arbitrators since they own the credit card scheme. So, it may not be Westpac that is the problem here.

    • Pete10001 on 28/02/2023 - 19:08
      +1

      Possibly, but I got the impression that Westpac didn't actually even read my response properly as it's probably one of the most straight forward cases they're likely to get and surely I'm not the only person that was scammed, given that the website no longer exists. Charge backs are probably something that are outsourced and or processed overseas.

  • onceupon8 on 28/02/2023 - 19:12

    Your dates are not clear at all. When did you lodge the chargeback? When did you get the temporary credit? When did you get the reversal? You said the reversal was 6 months after the purchase, but you didn't say, how long was it after the temporary credit.

    There are timelines involved for everything.

    Many banks may initially give you the funds back shortly after they have reviewed it and lodged the chargeback in the scheme system. But the merchants bank has around a month to dispute the chargeback and then the funds will get taken back from you. Your bank can then lodge a pre-arbitration if they disagree with it.

    So if the funds were reversed recently, your bank will be likely sending you a letter telling you this and giving you an option if you wish to still dispute it. Follow that procedure and your bank may lodge a pre-arbitration with the scheme and then you will likely get your funds returned.

  • USER DC on 28/02/2023 - 23:25
    +1

    My experience with Westpac Chargeback team hasn't been great (they email something, but dont really seem to be true what they email, normal people @call dont help because they aint from that Chargeback team). Unsure how yours is/was/will go. I only really have Westpac still open because of SB deals and some Altitude points in the account. Once enough Altitude points are redeemed would probably shut that, and stick to other new CC offers.

    On the other hand I have in past had excellent chargeback results with ING, and CommBank (they take a little longer, but at least they do it right)

    • burningrage on 01/03/2023 - 11:41

      I am finding Citibank the best. They don't ask too many questions and once I got the "temporary" credit, it stays there and never rung / email me back about issues.

  • Webber000 on 01/03/2023 - 17:36

    I believe as soon as the other sides bank disputes the chargeback it is automatically declined without anyone actually looking at it.
    I've only done it once - NOT westpac - where "Wind-bnb" overcharged me, and several customer service people agreed but "couldn't" refund the difference. After several months and never receiving any of the call backs promised I did a chargeback making it clear I was only asking for the difference and "Wind-BNB" disputed it and provided absolutely nothing relevant at all - basically they just sent their T&C's as "proof" to decline the chargeback - when I had provided copies of their emails agreeing I had been overcharged!
    My bank agreed to appeal it and it went to MasterCard International. Several months later "Wind-BNB" had a US legal firm provide over 80 pages of proof in their favour including the fact that I had left a positive review but not a single thing in the 80 pages was about the cost or money at all! Thankfully Mastercard International found in my favour and said I was to be refunded in full for the entire stay as I had never authorised a transaction for the amount they had charged me - but said that they could re-charge me for the lower amount - which they never did!
    I have so much happiness knowing that not only did I get a free holiday when I only wanted the difference back, but that they probably spent double that again paying that US legal company to provide that 80 page report - when their own staff had agreed many times in writing that I had been overcharged and promised I would get a call back from managers to sort it out!
    TLDR - its automated. Speak to your bank again and contest it. Provide a screenshot of the tracking and the website now being unavailable and your emails with no reply - write "no reply" on them. The appeal is actually dealt with by a human.

  • miwahni on 01/03/2023 - 22:47

    I'm wondering if the time frame has something to do with it. From my understanding, when a charge back is initiated, the debited funds are charged back to the merchant if they don't dispute the claim. But what if the merchant has shut up shop and account no longer exists? Who can the bank or Mastercard charge the funds back to, in that case?
    There is a different process for fraudulent transactions, perhaps you should be following that?

  • Anthonese on 04/03/2023 - 13:09

    As others have said, it's a heavily automated process to which there are many parties (merchant, merchant's bank, payment gateway, card scheme, your bank, you). I'd raise a complaint online and if they don't change their decision, take it to AFCA.

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