For someone who has no intention to go to uni or TAFE after high school, what is the best thing to do in order to evetually have a meaningful career? I am actually writing this on behalf of a friend's kid who has just finished high school. Any opinions and suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Career Advice for a High School Leaver
BendBridge on 11/02/2023 - 13:07
Comments
it's actually OPs kid just not on the legal side of things.
Thanks for sharing the link.
Get into government or council work
I am actually writing this on behalf of a friend's kid
Kid sounds like a real self starter.
This is such an open-ended question.
Ultimately, it depends on what the kid is motivated to do.
If you're asking for the statistically "best" thing to do, it would be to go to uni, TAFE, or to get an apprenticeship in a trade.
That being said, I have a mate who I went to school with who left in Y10 to work full-time at Macca's. I thought he was insane. He's now the area manager for SE Metro Melbourne, and looks after a portfolio of over 80 stores. Wouldn't say that he is "incredibly successful", but he has a good career, comfortable life and clearly is where he wants to be. The reality is that what matters most is motivation, attitude and willingness to take risks.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I tend to agree with your "best thing to do" suggestions.
Do they even want a meaningful career? Sorry, but so many kids nowadays are just happy to bum around and have others pick up the tab.
All the school leaver programs have well and truly finished for 2023, so that's out of the question.
If this were my kid, they could either pick one of the free Tafe courses or start applying for work - anywhere. Sitting at home, doing nothing, is not an option.
Sorry, but so many kids nowadays are just happy to bum around and have others pick up the tab.
Do you have any evidence for this or are you just making it up?
The youth unemployment rate has been trending downwards over the past 30 years (with a blip upwards in 2020, for obvious reasons): https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/youth-un…
Rates of people with university degrees, TAFE degrees (or higher) have also been consistently trending upwards over the past 30 years.
By all metrics, every subsequent generation has been more well educated and more productive than the last.
Do you sprout this garbage to your students as well?
Rates of people with university degrees…… been consistently trending upwards over the past 30 years.
Except lots are now studying useless things like Gender Studies, Arts, etc that don't really do anything to help their employment.
What would you say is a "useful" degree?
There are an increasingly number of graduates in computer science (https://epe.brightspotcdn.com/d4/72/794609a8a787b724a99f728e…), engineering (http://www.aced.edu.au/downloads/ACED%20Engineering%20Statis…), nursing (https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/ae3016b9-en/1/3/8/10/ind…), business, medicine, law, and many other "useful" degrees.
I teach high school and workplace subjects. In SA, and in most areas not central Adelaide, youth unemployment is horrendously high and has been for decades. Multigenerational unemployment is a real problem.
Unfortunately, many have families telling them that collecting Ceno is better than working.
It takes years of hardwork to break the psychology that they should work 8-10 hour days to earn twice the rate of Ceno when they could earn half as much doing nothing.
The actual reality is the same as it has ever been. If you want it, youve got to work for it. Unfortunately, we have people in education and society in general that think it's ok to pander to the notion that living at home, finding one's self and not contributing gainful to society is acceptable.
And the unemployment rate only accounts for those available for work. These kids are never looking. They're not in the stat's unless there's mutual obligation.
I teach high school and workplace subjects. In SA, and in most areas not central Adelaide, youth unemployment is horrendously high and has been for decades. Multigenerational unemployment is a real problem.
So now you're saying that it's a structural problem that has existed for generations rather than "kids nowadays" as per your original post?
Unfortunately, we have people in education and society in general that think it's ok to pander to the notion that living at home, finding one's self and not contributing gainful to society is acceptable.
I agree with this, but again, it has nothing to do with "kids nowadays", the premise of your original post was somehow kids of this generation are somehow worst than the ones that came before, which statistically is not true.
@p1 ama: Education may have increased but previous would've moved automatically into employment automatically after finishing school. Do you have stats on employment rather than studies increasing over 30years?
@cookie2: Yes, see my original comment above, youth unemployment has been trending downwards for the past decade.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
You might have to tell them how working full-time at minimum wage is 3.35 times better than ceno.
If they get a disability pension, that's a different story. Jobseekers are required to have contractual/mutual obligations that must be fulfilled, whereas disability they don't have to sign up with an employment agency if they have the capacity to work.
Go be a plumber or electrician… Most 20yo apprentice poop handlers and leckos are all driving around in LandCruisers or Rangers…
I've seen them in fully decked out 79 series. Must be pushing $150k plus for their rigs.WTF?
When I did my Locksmith training at TAFE, one of the apprentices had a 4yo LandCruiser ute fully tricked out with tool boxes, recovery gear, massive tyres and rims, upgraded suspension and the list goes on. this was easily a $100k+ vehicle…
Was probably mummy’s hand me down.
I actually wish I had tried t his when I was young, seems to be better money than minimum wage.
Let them bum around, make some money, work out what to do with their life. Doesn't matter if they work at McDonalds or get an apprenticeship. 18 is too young to expect people to set long term career goals.
I say this as someone who spent more than 10 years at TAFE/university working with kids ('young adults') who were in the wrong certificate or degree wasting money and trying to sort out their life.
I also say this as someone who didn't finish high school, went back to school at 23 and now has a Masters degree.
There are lots of jobs out there with no clear career path to them. Let them stumble into one, or if not, at least get a car, some independence and responsibility before working out what they're actually passionate about.
But if I had to pick, you really can't go wrong with an apprenticeship at that age.
I think you're more likely to work out what you want to do by trying something and seeing if you like it, and changing if you don't. If you haven't figured it out in 18 years then bumming around working at Maccas or a car wash for a year isn't likely to give you any further ideas than what you've already had.
Your first sentence is self evidentially correct, but your second sentence goes off on a wild tangent, as if anyone 18 years old has a clue about anything.
The only way you can learn what you like is by trying things, making money, and taking time to work out your priorities. Making any money is better than trying to shoehorn yourself into a career that you hate, and nothing you do at 18 short of getting yourself locked up is going to have any long term impact on your future whatsoever regardless.
All many 18 year olds know about is studying. Even part time work while you're studying just isn't the same as getting up in the morning knowing that the job you're doing today is your actual life. The only way to learn about work is by working.
If you haven't figured it out in 18 years then bumming around working at Maccas or a car wash for a year isn't likely to give you any further ideas than what you've already had.
I usually like what you have to say, but this is completely wrong.
Working at Macca's isn't "bumming around", it's really hard work. You work under time pressure, have real responsibilities, are answerable to your managers. It gives you a good indication of how hard life can be and grounds you in some perspective that can set you up well.
It's not about "ideas", it's about motivation, taking risks, perspective…etc. - when I was 18, I had no idea what I wanted to do either, I spent a year "bumming around" (as you deride it), but learning a lot about the "harsh realities" of the world, doing some fun stuff I never had the chance to do before that (exploring, partying, pursuing some new hobbies). It gave me good perspective that I took with me into uni and has set me up for the rest of my life.
I mean, you'll learn whether you don't mind physical work/being on your feet for hours or not. If you really hate it you'll know to look for an office job or something else.
It isn't going to tell you if you'd rather be a plumber or an electrician, or whether you'd rather study medical science or nursing, or whether you'd rather be an accountant or an engineer, or whether you'd like to be a book-keeper or own a small business (unless that business is a café/takeaway).
Working at Macca's isn't "bumming around", it's really hard work.
I was semi-quoting AngoraFish. Yes, learning about what it's like to work really hard is important. However, it can be done while you are studying, while earning the money to enable you to live. You don't need to devote a precious year of your youth towards it. My interpretation of the phrase "bumming around" (could be different to what AngoraFish meant) was that you are in a holding pattern, on pause until you're ready to start working towards your actual life. Not that it is easy or anything. I worked at Maccas from age 13-15 so I understand they expect quite a lot and you are never allowed to rest while you're on shift, you always have to be doing something and there's a constant feeling of urgency.
@Quantumcat: You're being incredibly glib, with most of your post reading like it came from an Asian parent with very little understanding of how people actually grow and develop.
I mean, you'll learn whether you don't mind physical work/being on your feet for hours or not. If you really hate it you'll know to look for an office job or something else.
You say this like a throwaway line, but this is the real stuff. It's not about whether you "mind physical work" or not, it's that it gives you perspective on what "hard work" means. Some kids think school is hard, don't want to continue onto uni, then go to work at Macca's and get a dose of reality that makes them consider going back to uni again.
It isn't going to tell you if you'd rather be a plumber or an electrician, or whether you'd rather study medical science or nursing, or whether you'd rather be an accountant or an engineer, or whether you'd like to be a book-keeper or own a small business (unless that business is a café/takeaway)
These are all decisions made much further down the track. If you're already tossing up between these different careers, then you should just go for them (obviously). That's not what this post is about - it's about a kid who is clearly lost and does not have the faintest idea of what they want to do next.
Getting out into the real world, having to work hard, getting some perspective, building some employable skills is generally not bad advice. FWIW, I don't review graduate CVs often these days, but back when I did, having had work experience at somewhere like Macca's was always seen to be a positive.
These are all decisions made much further down the track.
Why do they have to be made much further down the track? What benefit is there to waiting a year before starting study for the career you're interested in, then deciding you don't like it and want to change, vs starting study right away? Is it really better to spend year 1 working for Maccas full time, year 2 as an apprentice plumber, the year 3 as an apprentice electrician and becoming qualified in year 5, versus starting year 1 as an apprentice plumber, year 2 as an apprentice electrician, and becoming qualified in year 4? There is plenty enough hard work to be had as an apprentice plumber.
Or alternately spending year 1 working for Maccas, year 2 studying accounting while working part-time at Maccas, year 3 studying business while working part-time at Maccas, and graduating in business in year 5, vs spending year 1 studying accounting while working part-time at Maccas, year 2 studying business while part-time working at Maccas, and graduating in business in year 4? There was plenty of hard work learned in the part-time job. The only benefit might be that the person who worked full-time at Maccas, if they did it while living with their parents, had the chance to save up and maybe afford to work a bit less while studying.
Why do they have to be made much further down the track? What benefit is there to waiting a year before starting study for the career you're interested in, then deciding you don't like it and want to change, vs starting study right away?
Read my post again - you're selectively quoting.
I clearly said "if you're already tossing up between these different careers, then you should just go for them (obviously). That's not what this post is about - it's about a kid who is clearly lost and does not have the faintest idea of what they want to do next."
Think about the broader situation - if you have a kid who has left school, is sitting around at home not doing anything, the problem isn't just him figuring out what he wants to do. It is an attitude problem that can only be fixed with a dose of reality, which should hopefully, help him have a think about what he wants to do with his life when he figures out what the "real world" is actually like.
FWIW, I don't disagree with you, I understand where you are coming from. However, you are coming at it from the angle of someone who has broadly got their life sorted out, knows the direction in which they want to head (even if not the exact direction), and is reasonably motivated to take on a uni degree, apprenticeship or whatever.
Anyway, maybe we just agree to disagree, I don't think advising someone to spend some time working at Macca's or some other job is terrible advice and even in your example, graduating in year 4 or year 5 is hardly a big deal either.
The phrase "bumming around" was nothing more than a casual reference to a particular mental state and lack of clear direction.
You suggest a negative connotation that isn't implied; certainly not in the context of the actual kinds of jobs you'd typically be doing, which as you say, mostly involve shit pay, hard and insecure work, exploitation, and poor working conditions.
To the extent that "bumming around" does have a negative connotation, it's an interpretation set by people who see human value as primarily linked to how well remunerated is one's particular cog in the corporate machine.
You and I appear to be 100% the same page.
Hard disagree on your second part. I was basically this kid at 18 and went straight into retail. I both learned I did NOT want to do that as a career, and I found out about a Tafe course that did interest me, which I had no idea even existed until I made friends with someone who was in it… That ultimately got me keen to go to university.
An 18 y/o, shouldn't be sitting around mooching, but there's no reason they need to have figured out a career plan.
my daughter dropped out first term yr 11 and worked in fast food for about 2 years i told her to go back to get yr 12 cert n do something in life so she went to a senior collage got her yr 12 cert then went into uni for nursing she had a baby took a year off n went back to uni and now she’s a midwife with a 5 year old and she’s 28 ..so i’m glad she did decide to go back to studying
Thanks for sharing such a positive story about your daughter. Would you say the “gap years” had given her the time and space to become more mature in deciding to continue her studies?
yes definitely did cos when she was at school she wasn’t really interested in school , she’s the type where she won’t even study for an exam and get great marks so i didn’t want her to waste her life in dead end jobs due to her having no yr 12 cert ect .so i’m glad that she actually listened and went back to studying for her yr 12 and she really enjoyed being in a more mature setting instead of a typical school as she went to a senior collage at bankstown,then she got good mark and straight from finishing she was accepted into uni but i do think the time off from school did let her decide what career she wanted as she had never even mentioned nursing to me so i was shocked when she said that’s what she was going to put in for ..as some people ain’t school types like my sons couldn’t wait to leave school and they wouldn’t dream of going back so that’s why i’m so glad she actually took my advice as some of her school friends have had a handful of kids and sitting on centrelink, which my daughter could of quite easily stayed on centrelink after she had her baby but she went back to uni when he was about 10 months old n she did it by herself as she was a single mum and living by herself with the baby .
@BendBridge: yes i am , thank you and she is really thriving in her career but god the nurses are run off their feet ..
100% this. I didn't know what I wanted to do until my mid 20s, and even then I kinda fell into it.
Hi @whytea. A specific answer to this question would be very difficult. Everyone here would be able to suggest an option from the field that they have experience in, but it would largely depend on what the kid likes or has an inclination towards. I am into IT so can suggest a few options but there is no guarantee that the child will like them or want to pursue them. Have you spoken to the kid yet?
What a coincidence, I am an IT guy too. You are exactly right about the inclination thing. I remember when I was 18, I really had no idea of what I wanted to do. No I haven't spoken to the kid yet. I'll leave that to the father. I am just helping out by collecting information especially real life experience.
Bikies.
my advice. go to uni or tafe. doesn't matter what you pick. change degrees each year till you find something you like. just go.
once you get on the "work train", it's very hard to get off it and study again. you'll get accustomed to whatever grind you choose, and the money you make from it. your commitments (cars, rent, lifestyle) will naturally grow to meet your income, then the ability to give it up to return to student life will become incredibly difficult. you'll be trapped by your level of income. earning less will seem an impossible situation, so you won't do it.
youth is wasted on the young. stop being stupid. just go. even if only to give a half ass effort, and party with your friends for 4 years. it's better now than never. trust me, you'll regret not going!
I tend to agree with you on the uni and TAFE path even that does lead to a degree or a diploma. With some additional knowledge, hopefully more doors will open.
Gap year to work out what they want to do
Travel and/or volunteer work
Volunteer work is a great suggestion especially if it can be across a number of fields. Will look good on the resume whatever work they end up choosing to do and may help them work out what it is they love
So volunteering in a soup kitchen can help someone work out what they love, but working at Macca's won't?
I'm all for volunteering, but this just sounds like you're just jumping to the conclusions you want.
Male or female? Thought about joining the army? It's not for everyone but my husband wishes he went in at 18 instead of 25. They recently halved the requirements for DHOAS (theyll subsidise part of your mortgage if you wanna buy a house, more depending on how long youve been in), and theres a ton more things happening in the compensation side because they need more soldiers.
Could be done with your mandatory period by 22/24 and then work out what you wanna do from there. I had nfi what I wanted to do til 24 anyway, I just ran cafes until I decided I wanted to go into another field.
Why question if male or female when recommending going into the army?
Because knowing what the army was like youd have to be a very specific kind of female to be able to manage in there :) Depends on corps, officer or non officer, whether they have good work ethic etc because whether you like it or not, they WILL be judged harsher than the men will. A lot of girls I know of in the army do not do much to help that fact either. Its a valid question.
Leave it up to him. Maybe he doesn't even want a career. I went to uni and have done various jobs. One thing I knew from very early on is that I will never be happy working as a full time employee. I prefer to be as free and autonomous as possible, doing different things all the time and taking time off when I choose to. Even if it means a much lower income, at least I am the one in control. Don't care for having the latest car or a fancy house, a simple life is all I need. Plenty of opportunity with the internet and flexible 'gig' jobs to build a life which doesn't revolve around slaving away 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. If he wants to be his own boss, then something like cleaning is always a good option.
Forklift driver, traffic controller, or garbo.
Pretty good pay; not a lot of training is required.
FIFO mining site, earn piles of money, have a week to burn through it all.
Granted, if they do some qualifications they’ll be rolling in it by 30
I don’t see how you expect to get any meaningful answer for a random kid we know nothing about.
Get a job is about as far as I could recommend. What sort of job? NFI. We don’t know wether the kid wants outdoor indoor work, is a tech nerd or a sports fan, introvert/extrovert etc etc.
Recommending a plumbing apprenticeship when the kids wants to by in IT seems as daft as wanting them to work in maccas if they’re vegetarian.
So… what's the likelihood of the friend, and/or their kid, actually giving a toss about any advice given to them, particularly from you/us?
They would've had all sorts of advice from people by now about career choices etc. Those close to them who know how they are academically, or what subjects they like, hobbies, even what their personality would be suited to