Morning all,
I went to my doc last week as I have had some abdominal pains and wanted it checked, the practice no longer bulk bills so I paid the $30 Gap fee.
He recommended a CT scan (Bulk Billed) which I did.
Now to get my results I have a Telehealth appointment with the Dr this afternoon, on the confirmation text I received yesterday it mentioned that there is another $30 Gap Fee for the appointment.
Does this seem fair?
Genuinely interested in others thoughts here.
I think people who are passionate about GP are still going into GP, and there are also lifestyle considerations when the alternative is a decade of full time hospital training, then a PhD etc before you get a consultant job as a physician or surgeon
Bare in mind, that a "normal" result still can have implications -
ie. you might need further testing if the symptoms are concerning? This will need to be discussed with yourself.
If it has gone away, you might want to discuss how to address this if it recurs or the urgency of seeking help if it does recur?
I'll swap your $30 gap for the $200 I'll have to pay this week.
My gp used to bulk bill then stopped so I just switched.
I went to mine for YEARS.
It sucks at first but you’ll get over it.
Visits to Dr are not free. Tine is money. I pay $18 each vsit.
Maybe we now have a three-tier health system.
Previously two-tier health system, Medicare or Private, the gradual erosion of Bulk Billing to be now the exception (mainly Health Care Card etc).
New entrant and seeking acceptance and norm is the Medicare+Gap fee.
The problem is that the Gap doesn't just describe the fee expected, it describes the hole many will fall into.
Possibly a false economy that will end up costing all of us more in the long run.
I remember when Medicare was the envy of many Countries.
When Medicare is sick, who fixes/funds it?
Your results are accesible through the medical imaging provider. It's the same for any pathology results. Case in point, I can view, access and download my medical imaging images and results from 4 years ago through firefox.
Hi,
That is fine for Radiology that confirms there isn't a Fracture.
Some imaging and reporting is a little more complex. Are we really into a time of burden shift where patients will be expected to interpret and determine what (if anything follows).
What a sweet deal, where Medicare is compulsory but the cover continues to diminish.
Images were available but they don't give you the report, you have to see your doctor for the report.
No it’s thoroughly not fair! They are squeezing patients. Same with blood tests which require 2nd visit. We in this day and age can red the test parameters. There are many more other test which they asking you to come back and charge more! That’s why govt is not caving to gp demands.
The problem with reading/interpreting the test parameters or normal rangeis that people often look at discrete results rather than the whole or overall result.
You either pay now or later.
More like the other way around…
Local GPs generally will only look at the asterisks and will not be looking at the general trend of the numbers, especially the correlations…
Anyone mathematically orientated will see through the smoke and mirrors the local GPs put up.
Pff, what did you expect for a 10 minute consultation though… lol.
They give you the blood test results to cover themselves from liability. It is up to you to get further advice if required. It's a loophole.
As a GP, I kind of understand how you feel, but do remember talking through results does take time, and if it isn't billed, we're essentially working for free.
Here's what I do:
I let the patient know that if "everything is fine", they will get a text regarding that, should they have more questions, they will need a consult.
If there are findings that need to be discussed, then they will get a text saying they need a consult.
I try to minimise those "your fine" consults. Though I know a few gps who get people back for everything.
Isn't the problem that there hasn't been a conversation with Australia about how this will all be funded and the resistance to increasing the Medicare Levy is the Elephant in the room?
I remember the now Government saying "Hands off Medicare" but aren't they now driving without their hands on he wheel.
This is very Laissez-faire stuff.
O for sure. Weve been fighting as a profession for years regarding rebates for patients. It always falls on deaf ears. In fact there's a Medicare review at national cabinet on Friday. It's expected to instead of increasing gp rebates, to instead fund pharmacist and allied health consultations
I recognise what Pharmacists do and the role of Allied Health.
We want a first aid kit and you get a Band-Aid "solution"
Love the idea of paying noctors to dish out antibiotics instead of paying our GPs enough to not have to choose between making a living and providing quality care
Why the (profanity) should they increase the medicare levy? It's not exactly earmarked for medicare anyway, it's just another tax.
We already pay more than enough tax to cover a decent healthcare system, but the funds don't end up there regardless.
There are countries where GPs are paid not quite so far above other professions, highly but not 3x the average wage or more.
All the government needs is to commit an additional $1 or 2 billion more to properly fund Medicare to recruit more ED nurses and extend bulk-billing GPs visits for all Australians
Instead the Albanese government chose to spend HUNDREDS of Billions to buy new AUKUS nuclear submarines and bombers. There is taxpayers money available, just whether the Albanese government wants to spend it in the right areas!
This is what GPS have done in the past for me and seems reasonable for an annual medical bloods etc.
If the tests for an issue suggest a changed course of action I expect another consultation.
Have to say, even when my GP bulk billed, when I even did a Telehealth it was obvious that he’d scanned my history and was up to date with anything going on. That takes time, so a bulk bill at least is fair I think.
Telehealth should be gapless. All of mine are. They always last less than 10 minutes.
How much do you pay your plumber or electrician for 10 minutes of their time/expertise?
Hmm, your Idea of subbing in a plumber or sparky instead of going to a Cardio interests me.
I'm saying that tradies charge (usually a lot) for their labour and the time put in to learn the trade. Shouldn't a doctor also deserve their monies worth for the time and effort it to took to become a doctor? Remember that the Medicare rebate of $39 is the sole source of income for a GP practice which goes towards paying for rent, receptionist, nurse, computers, software, bandages etc.
@JPossum: Sure, but some consideration needs to be given to that we are already paying via Medicare. If Medicare isn't sufficient, who covers the Gap?
How does an employee in a flat no-income growth economy survive?
@holdenmg: You can’t expect a private GP business to make up for poor government policies and work for free. Otherwise why don’t you ask any your plumber or mechanic to do the same?
I don't. They often send me quotes or assess situations with no charge.
That's great that your GP is able to absorb that cost for you! But the number of GPs happy to do that is dwindling…
It isn't free, there is a subsidy paid by the government. Moot point.
Why are people always putting forward the argument that doctors work for free? Is that a result of the AMA's advertising?
Amazing.
You are complaining about paying $30 for your own health which could save your life.
Not sure where I was complaining? I asked a question and wanted others genuine thoughts. Would hate to be your partner if you think tha'ts complaining lol
Received my results which was about a 10 minute call. Basically just reading out the report the imaging place sent through. Needs some extra investigation so got a referral for that. Happy to pay the gap here as it was a bit more than just reading the results out.
I can see both sides of the fence here.
Blame the government who does not increase medicare rebates to keep up with increased small business costs.
And remember your GP is some who has 10-15 years of training before they are allowed to play on their own, plus all the regular reskilling required to keep certified etc …
Personally I think the government should increase the medicare levee we all pay to help fix the current issues in caused by underfunding.. Most of us would hardly notice the difference in the levee but increasing it will make a big difference, especially for those who cannot afford private health cover.
lol….its your health…just pay the fee and be happy you get any kind of rebate
Save the nickel and diming to groceries and batteries
I think lithium is generally superior to nickel when it comes to batteries
$30 is cheap. Most people pay $50.
I wouldn't piss off your primary health provider over a $30 gap.
I've heard with the no bulk billing people complaining about paying $20 and now $30. We are on a pension and our GP practice has been charging the full almost $90 for a few years and then they process the refund of $39 odd dollars. So you are still better off than us paying o my $30.
She does Bulk Bill certain things though and one of those times would be a recall for.results.
If you're truly doing it tough, there will be places that will see you without charging a gap.
Whether or not you want to upend your existing clinical relationship is up to you.
Depends on how much you value her skills, experience, and the connection you have already built over the years.
A lot of GP's working in medical centres or even small practices with a few doctors only get ~60% of the fee. The rest goes to the business that provides the building, furniture, support staff/reception etc.
I find it most annoying we can't get the results emailed to us direct from the providers. Even when say pathology has an extra charge, for one of the 12 tests they did that was not covered by Medicare, and they won't tell you which test because i would need to see my doctor for that… total BS and sham oir medical sytem. I am grateful it's heavily subsidised but it is very very very inefficient and totally behind the IT curve. At least in Tasmania.
You can look up the tests on MBS Online to see which ones are covered/not covered by Medicare
When i go get my annual blood done there's like 30 tests and they should tell me at pathology which one i need to pay for! Codes are never in the referral either. As patients we are all left in the dark. I personally believe scan blood xray results should be sent to the patient as well if requested!!!! Doctors rarely do it, even when asked…. they often say they will but they rarely do.
Paying the gap is fine. It's the inefficiencies that really hurt.
On a related note (ranting), my mother was 'strongly recommended' by a young GP to go to the emergency as she was showing signs of a active heart attack. The GP practically forced us to go to the emergency (otherwise saying he will call the ambo). This GP was young and new, subbing in for my mother's usual GP on the day. Poor bloke was shaking and worried my mother might collapse. My mother always had a weak heart but when she said she was extra tired that day from walking, something alerted the GP to say it was an active heart attack.
We went to the emergency. Waited 9 hours… and practically begged to go home to which they refused, not because they were concerned, but they didn't want to be liable for any "ifs". Ended up coming out after 9 hours with a 2 ECGs and 'a call you specialist and book a time to discuss your results' diagnosis. We weren't surprised. We went to the ER before (pre covid) and waited equally long.
Funny thing is. When we went to see the specialist, even he couldn't understand why the ER. Nothing unusual, same as 6 months ago when we met him last… So 9 hours thanks to the overly concerned GP. Oh and he took a gap fee for the consultation as well.
Anwyays, I think Australian healthcare system in generally is f***** up, but I get what I pay for.. ($0).
Seems like double dipping to me and don't think Doctors aren't beneath this bullsh*t
Expert estimates $8 billion a year lost to Medicare fraud and waste
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-17/medicare-leakage-frau…
Maybe my opinion but it seems stupid to have to pay again for your results, almost like ransom. You pay the first time and that should include the initial consultation and also providing the results, otherwise it's only half a job done.
Same woman runs a MBS "compliance" business
I feel it really depends on the test and the results. If it's just a routine blood test to check health and there is little to discuss, then I don't feel a gap should be charged, but if it's complex and needs a plan put in place to manage something moving forward, even if that is just "you've got this issue, this is what i recommend" then a consultation fee and gap is applicable.
Ask ahead of time (like I did)
I never go to the doctors but needed to recently for a prescription drug and opted to get my bloods checked first. Paid the gap on the first consultant to organise tests and asked if it there'd be a charge to get the results, the answer was "usually not". They have the option of charging or not, it comes down to the doctor and of course how long you'll be in on the 2nd visit, it you're just picking up results then I think it's reasonable to enquire. If you're going to spend 10 minutes discussing the results then fairs fair, pay for the professionals time.
they should assess Medicare levy surcharge, why dont they just simply tax more and use that money to build more hospitals, more beds, pay increases, system upgrades whatever… instead… many of use forced to chip in paying so many CEOs in those insurance companies.
$30 is a bargain, try calling a plumber, it will cost you $300 to show up.
Equating plumbers and doctors is a nonsense.
How is this nonsense? You’re getting a service, you pay for it.
We’re just lucky that we live in Australia where we’ve been spoilt by Medicare so that we have this attitude…
…because health care is astronomically more important than plumbing.
Yes, in Australia and other parts of the world affordable health care is seen as a desirable thing to have to diminish the suffering of all people in the community regardless of their financial situation.
@Eeples: Yes, and a doctor is substantially affordable than plumbing (which arguably, sanitation is also important)
I've had this happen to me before. Got told to get bloods, heard nothing, rang for results, got told to come in for appt, went in, was out in 5 mins (nothing to report), and got charged full appt fee.
I know GPs can set their fees and rates, but I think it makes sense that if they're asking you to do something that requires a follow up, then it's a fairly common courtesy to bulk bill the follow up as you don't really have a choice of whether to come back or not.
GPs do a lot of stuff that isn't billed at all. I will regularly interrupt a GP's day and have a ten minute conversation about one of their patients, and there is no way for them to get paid by Medicare or the patient for that service.
Similarly a pharmacy might call to check if a schedule 8 script is legit, or they will review results and specialist letters as they come in, rather than the next time you see them, so as to get an idea of how quickly the result needs to be actioned
.
I have a treatment plan with my GP.
From time to time he can use the existence of the treatment plan to bulk bill me instead of me paying the gap.
I haven’t asked him too many questions about it as the billing aspect works for me!
Have to say certain GPs need to pay more but there are some doctors who I think doesn't deserve it. You know the one, who is first thing they do is trying to get your out of the door as soon as possible.
Call the pathology joint, they'll probably send you the results directly.
I wonder why only some GP's have started charging out of pocket
A conspiracist would make the connection that by increasing costs, it will force the governments hand to increase medicare rebates to make visits more affordable for patients. Doubt GP's will drop their gap fee when it happens though.
Considering that most GP's crank though at least 4 patients an hour, at the going rebate rate they are bringing in 156/hour. Even if they are only taking home a portion of that, they are still doing ok. Many gp's will overbook and do much higher than that. Most appointments i go to take no longer than 5-10 minutes. So that 156/hour is more likely to be over 200/hour.
You can request a FOI of your health result.
I had a GP once keep diverting the consultation to conversation and general chit chat despite my efforts to bring the topic back to my medical concerns. When I finally got out of there it became obvious why he was doing it. I was charged for a double consultation due to him successfully stringing it out 5mins longer than a normal consult. If it weren't for him banging on and on I would have been in and out in well under the time of a full single consult.
TLDR- Doctor made excessive idle chit chat to push consult overtime and charge me double.
My GP sends a text message if the results are benign.
All forms of healthcare should be free in a country like Australia. This shouldn't even be a debate
Yes but the government should be paying for it not healthcare providers working for free.
Yes but unfortunately I think this is the beginning of the end of the universal free healthcare here in Australia as our Medicare system gets crippled from decades-long lack of funding and we gravitate towards the more expensive American healthcare model. The government needs to find an additional $1 or 2 billion more to properly fund Medicare to recruit more ED nurses and extend bulk-billing GPs visits for all Australians, given that they can commit HUNDREDS of Billions to buy new AUKUS nuclear submarines and bombers. There is money available, just whether the government wants to spend it in the right areas!
"Average GP salary
Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+."
Average private GPs maybe. Public bulk billing GPs do not make that much money.
Nope, the data used comes from the ATO. So at $200k minimum would be the bulk billers, then up and up we go.
Most medical doctors were the top of their class in school and could have pursued any other career with much higher incomes.
Why shouldn’t a doctor get paid appropriately for their expertise? Also not to mention the paltry income and poor working conditions that all junior doctors need to go through.
$200k minimum isn't enough?
Like many professions you don't enter that role or industry to become rich but to help people. Unlike teachers and nurses who also fall in this category doctor's are not doing it tough.
How do you know what people's motivations are for their careers? You are kidding yourself if income is not a factor.
The point is these people are highly intelligent and can go into other fields if they wish. Currently only 14% of medical students are training to become specialist GPs. Why be a GP on 200k when you can be a psychiatrist or surgeon on 1m? Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
@mactos: Of course it's a factor, and as i said not one GP is doing it tough. The money chasers are the plastic/cosmetic surgeons no doubt.
@ribze1: Actually GPs are doing it tough. That's why clinics are closing their doors and 14% of junior doctors are choosing to specialise in it. Using a recruitment site as proof of GP income is showing your ignorance.
A GPs income has to cover their salary, all forms of leave, super, insurance, registration, college fees, CPD, personal equipment & subscriptions which can end up costing thousands…
Sure, a nurse or teacher might only earn 85-100k, but will also get annual leave, sick leave, parental leave, paid public holidays, long service leave, other forms of leave, super above minimum mandatory requirements, paid training, etc.
GPs get roughly $34 from medicare for a 10 min session. I recently saw a specialist that charged $420 and I was out of pocket some $130. So medicare gave him $290. And again it was a 15 min session. I don't see why such a difference. Surely the specialist training doesn't increase their value by 8.5 times. That's where the rort is and why there isn't enough money to go around.
GP's are just that though, GENERAL practitioners'. Specialists have far more training in their specified fields.
They may spend 3-4 years on a single field (probably more, I don't know the numbers here), whereas a GP did similar for a broad/general study that was very 'jack of all trades'.
In the same vein Plumbers/Electricians exist vs Handymen I guess.
(As someone who's seen several Specialists over the last few years and even a surgery, I agree the price is outrageous but what can you do :\ )
Far more would be probably 5 more years. I still don't see how they are worth 8.5 times more.
Incorrect. GPs are specialists in primary care. You can tell if they are a specialist GP if they use FRACGP or FACRRM post nominals.
Most GPs pay a facility fee of around 40% (30% if they're really lucky) to pay for things like the room, computer,software, admin staff, consumables
This is an article from 2017 but still relevant today - GP rebate: What I do for the $37.05 that no one wants to pay
My Dr charges for in-person out of pocket also roughly ~30. However Telehealth followups I haven't been charged yet (or asked to pay), just the in-person stuff. I don't mind this approach. Finally found a decent Dr (after so many come/go from my local area) so am willing to pay the gap fee to stick with 1 given I've seen like 5-10 different Dr's over the last few years.
You should chat to your GP about your results.
Chat to GP..
Chat GP..
ChatGPT..
There should be free service where you can plug in your scrubbed results into a ChatGPT interface and return you the warts and all outcomes.
Came here for the ChatGPT comment. Give it 5-10 years and I expect some government in the world will present an AI GP service linked to patient medical records.
You can't sue an AI
Then give it 5 months.
This is why we need AI to replace administrative work of GP especially those greedy ones.
I do not think greedy and GP can go in the same sentence.
If they were motivated by greed they would not be GPs. The pay is shit compared to their skills and education.
Really? How much does a GP earn? I bet more than an average joe on the street..
As someone who has seen their mum get to the end of the month as a bulk billing GP and lose $10k running the practice rather than make a cent, because she and her fellow doctors wouldn't charge a gap to those who can afford to pay it because they believe healthcare should be as affordable as possible.
Just pay for your health. It is amazing those who bitch about a gap but then go drop $30 on fast food or a pack of smokes.
If the doctor is taking the time to call you with your results then they are working. Be happy it is only $30 and not hundreds like in the US.
I think this is the beginning of the end of the universal free healthcare here in Australia as our Medicare system gets crippled from decades-long lack of funding and we gravitate towards the more expensive American healthcare model.
Maybe Government will just increase the 2% levy making middle class to pay.
Hell increase it even more and make the middle and upper class pay. Hell if we closed half the tax loop holes being used we could fix more than just the healthcare system.
@curtturtle: Do you realize the "medicare levy" isn't actually about medicare? Do you realize larges amounts of the gov tax income are spent on corrupt pursuits? If we paid 10% of our earnings to a "medicare levy" you would still be facing the same problem, because the problem isn't that australians' aren't taxed enough. We're taxed (profanity) plenty.
Income tax - 30~50% & "medicare levy"
GST - 10% of everything we buy
capital gains - % of every asset at sale even if it's a true loss by CPI/inflation
Stamp duties - on all large life purchases
Transport rego
Fuel - GST + 46c/L (indexed)
etc.
Then, on top of this, the government allows the banking cartel to print money, encouraging it, eating away further at the value of any assets and savings we have.
We get (profanity) plenty taken, there should be more than enough to pay for a (profanity) doctor without a gap.
your mother's feelings != the inability for other's to air their grievances :)
The system needs to be reviewed however, which the government is doing thankfully
I think this is the beginning of the end of the universal free healthcare here in Australia as our Medicare system gets crippled from decades-long lack of funding and we gravitate towards the more expensive American healthcare model. Poor funding of Emergency Departments and aged care homes all led to an overloaded healthcare system and the establishment of private profit-making American-like 'Urgent Care centres' with $100 out-of-pocket payments is proof of this.
While the Albanese government is wringing its hands on an additional $1 or 2 billion more to properly fund Medicare to recruit more ED nurses and extend bulk-billing GPs visits for Australians, no one in government bats an eyelid to committing HUNDREDS of billions to buy new AUKUS nuclear submarines and nuclear bombers to fund the next American-led war on China.
American diet is feeding the health system too.
and we gravitate towards the more expensive American healthcare model.
Which in one word can be summed up as a 'cartel'.
You are paying for the minimum 8 years it took to become a GP and the ability to interpret the results.
If you think that the gap is too high, please complain to your local MP about how the government is doing nothing about the Medicare rebate freeze. There’s a reason why no junior doctors want to do general practice now.