So I’m in the market for a new car and I’m considering EVs as my first choice.
I saw this - Tesla shares tank after doubling U.S. discounts on key models and wondered if people think Tesla price drops will be coming down under as well? Given it’s been a good 12 months of price increases, maybe it’s time to drop?
I do note BYD recently upped their Atto prices by 3800 bucks which was a shock given it’s only been on market for less than a year.
Yep, the days of buying a new car and it retaining 100% of its value/appreciating in price are well and truly over.
Similar to houses.
Cash is now king.
Edit: You're right The Tesla price crunch has started
Imho. Your average Tesla buyer esp. from 3-4y ago isn't likely to keep a car and run it into the ground. So you should see a lot more second hand Teslas hitting the market at cheaper prices as they upgrade to newer models (e.g. 2018 to 2022; or Model 3 to Model Y).
Add onto that the latest FBT change to EVs making them potential fleet/novated lease cars and I think in 3-4y from now we will see an influx of second hand 2022/2023 Teslas flooding the market.
Still think from an ease of use and reliability/experience standpoint Tesla can charge a premium (Supercharger network, most experience with EVs, etc) but that gap is closing pretty quickly. Grabbed a Tesla recently and happy with it - definitely on the more expensive end but it's no different to someone buying a more premium car which is still effectively a car.
Main thing is that what you might value traditionally in a car (e.g. interior, specific features) aren't what you're paying the Tesla premium for. I think the Tesla premium is more the knowledge that they will continually OTA update and the basic/enhanced/fsd autopilots are probably ahead of the competition (although I wouldn't trust fsd myself).
I have a Tesla and happily let it drive itself on freeways. A friend with a BMW X5 has similar features but doesn't feel he's able to trust it.
I'm seeing the same thing on FB marketplace. Never seen a Tesla listed in the past, now seeing regular ads selling them.
Wouldn't touch with a 50ft pole, personally.
Why aren't you considering naturally aspirated engines ? Why would rush in to buy electric vehicles when it's in its infancy stage .
Teslas have been around since 2012
Not quite still in its infancy
Might be in their infancy in this backwards nation, but they are mainstream in Europe and increasing elsewhere. Aussies have been fed a line and manufacturers reluctant to support us until recently while they pump them out by the thousands elsewhere in the world.
Unless you do outback or long distance travel monthly or more, an EV makes a lot of sense right now. Cheap to run, efficient, quiet and never have to stop for fuel for commuting.
EVs are hardly in their infancy. The first EV was built in 1832. Its only 10 years until they are 2 centuries old. The European settlement of Australia is only a bit older than that.
been considering it for 5+ years now, so not rushed.
Why aren't you considering naturally aspirated engines ?
I suppose you mean to say 'Internal Combustion Engine'. A naturally aspirated engine is just an ICE that does not have forced induction such as a turbo/supercharger.
How much to they charge to replace the batteries?
You can recharge them. You don’t need to keep a stash of AAs in the boot.
You can recharge them.
Not when the cells begin to fail as they eventually will…
I've heard estimates of around $20K to replace.
Because parts like gearboxes and engines dont fail on ICE cars???
InB4: "YeAh BuT mUh FuEL tAnK DoEsN't GeT sMaLLeR!!11!!!1". Yes, yes it does. When your engine starts to clag out, it takes more fuel to do the same work, because you need to push it harder to get the same performance out of it… And weirdly enough, when the engine does finally give out, guess what… it's going to be up to $20,000 to replace it in some cars…
We get it, you are scared on electric cars, but your misinformation is laughable at this point. And I know you are only doing to troll people… But still, some people might believe your bullshit.
Because parts like gearboxes and engines dont fail on ICE cars???
My current one is approaching 20 years old now and still purring like a kitten.
Doubt a gearbox will cost $20K to replace.
We get it, you are scared on electric cars
Nope, just not falling for the con artists like many are…
Better putting research into hydrogen cells…
@jv: Hydrogen cells are good, but making hydrogen for them is energy intensive.
Modern batteries will last as long as modern ICE vehicles - hundreds of thousands of km with decent range remaining. They have significantly improve battery management in the last few years so they’ll last fine. Along with that, it’ll be easier to source second hand batteries from write offs etc now we are getting more and more of them around.
There’s plenty of EVs OS with hundreds of thousands of kms on.
How many years have they been on the road?
@Euphemistic: Lets see where they are at 10 years when people will need to fork out $20K to replace their batteries.
@jv: Plenty of ICE vehicles that also don’t last that long and need an expensive engine replacement… so your point is?
Plenty of ICE vehicles that also don’t last that long
Most petrol cars do last more than 10 years without major problems.
Most electric cars will have dead cells in a decade.
@jv: Many EVs have 10years battery warranty. You’d have to be reasonably confident of 10years at least being the AVERAGE life of a battery pack in that case, but to offer a 10years warranty you’d want to not be replacing many, like less than 10%
Many EVs have 10years battery warranty.
Then you have to fork out $$$ for a new battery, or buy a new Tesla every 10 years.
@jv: Stupid comment is stupid. Most petrol cars will have dead spark plugs in 10 years. Dead ignition modules. Dead fuel pumps. Dead engines. Dead gear boxes.
The average age of cars I work on that I would consider to be at their “shit box” age would be about 8 to 10 years or about 120~150,000+km
It’s ok to be afraid of change and things you don’t understand…
As for your “hydrogen” theory…
Hydrogen cars are a stillborn concept. Hydrogen powered FCVs are a pipe dream here. We might see them in light to medium trucks and commercial vehicles, but not passenger vehicles en-masse.
You can’t fuel them at home. The fueling stations take up more space than a regular fuel station. You can’t just wack one in at your local shopping centre or power pole. Storage and transport of hydrogen is also not that easy.
All this still doesn’t even take into account the amount of energy required to make hydrogen, just for the vehicle to convert it and make electricity… it’s just an EV, but with extra steps. Burn electricity to make hydrogen, to put into a car, to convert it back to electricity… why not just skip all that shit and put the electricity straight into the car?
The first accident they have that cracks one of these 10,000 psi storage tanks and the pending explosion that levels an entire city block from the blast will be the death of FCV’s. Firefighters don’t like dealing with atmospheric pressure petrol, you think they are going to go anywhere near a FCV with 10,000psi tanks of hydrogen onboard while it’s on fire?
I love the idea of cleaner vehicles, but I LOVE not going near fuel stations and just getting my fuel out of some panels on my roof.
@jv: So many things go wrong with ICE cars, even new ones, which you may not realise unless you're involved with a fleet of vehicles. Our work fleet is constantly having to send vehicles back for warranty/non-warranty repairs (including a number for engine rebuilds after engine failures). I don't think there's a single car that hasn't had some serious issues. There's a lot less things to go wrong on an EV, and a lot less servicing and replacement of parts as the vehicle ages.
@jv: No, you are missing the point.
All vehicles will eventually fail for some reason, ICE or BEV. Both have very expensive components that can fail, but both will last a long time if you take care of them.
The technology in newer EV’s is not the same as your remote control car from your childhood.
And I get it, you are scared of change, but I’m not here to convince you to change your mind, you won’t, I’m only here to dispel your bullshit.
As for your $5 vs $20,000 example… we had a 6yo, 170,000km Land Cruiser come into work the other day with a lunched engine. I called Toyota for a replacement engine, $48,000+. I ended up finding a low km used engine for our customer for $29,000. This excludes the cost of removing and refitting this engine. So, a brand new battery for $20k sounds cheap.
There are soooo many things that can go wrong with ICE vehicles, So many complex components that are needed and a lot of moving parts. Cam belts, timing gears, injectors, sensors, cooling systems, drive belts, valve train, cranks, pistons, pumps… an EV motor has one moving part.
Don’t get many EV owners on this forum complaining that their mechanic charged them $2500 for a service and some minor fix. (Maybe except for old mate and his 14yo, 400,000km Prius)
@pegaxs: Amazing how none of you point out how dumb it is that people are driving for anything and everything.
Whats next, driving 100km to visit a toilet ?
@CowFrogHorse: Wow! Your so sad with every post.
Christmas today, guess it's bar humbug for you.
Hoping it's not from the rest of us
@Plumbob: No im poking fun at the idiots who drive 150k in a land cruiser. At 30k/h thats how many months wasted sitting in a car ?
@jv: Edit: I was replying to JV's post about replacement battery cost and how ICE cars are just perfect.
Most petrol cars don't. Some people are just lucky.
Let's take a couple of examples of people I know with petrol cars:
Mazda CX5 dead engine under 100,000km, under 8years. Mazda replaced the engine outside of the warranty period (good on them). This would have been around $20k to replace.
BMW X5 under 100,000km, under 8years ran out of oil on the highway due to a failed something or other that resulted in rapid oil loss. BMW had agreed to go halves, but the owner decided to scrap the car and get cash instead. This would have been way more to fix than the $20k.
Hyundai Tuscon under 100,000km, under 8years ran out of oil, due to owner neglect. However there was never a warning from the car that something was wrong. I don't remember the engine replacement cost in this case, it was high, but lower than $20k somewhere betwen 10 and 20 though.
Lexus 400h the SUV type. under 100,000km don't recall the year now - not very recent though. It is a hybrid, but uses horrendous amount of petrol, being SUV. Nothing failed so far, but services are uber expensive and just like an ICE vehicle all the components that need replacing regularly have to be replaced. At one of the services, they replaced water pump, radiator and a bunch of hoses at around $2,500.
Yarris crap was around 2015 model with not a lot of kilometers, but these shitboxes have to be serviced every 6 months. The cost of service at Toyota was $600 - $1000, sometimes more. Reliable, maybe, but basically everything in the car is replaced ever so often. It all adds up.
@jv: Receipts going around for $aud 13,500 for model 3. 8 year battery warranty and much less degradation on newer iron based battery.
Servicing costs saved would be similar.
Servicing costs saved would be similar.
I don't think so…
I average around $200-$300 per year getting my cars serviced.
Also, when selling your car, the buyer wont have to pay the accumulated servicing cost since you got the car, but they will need to factor in paying $$$ for new batteries.
@jv: Are they 70k cars? I was paying at least $4-500 for semi premium fuel cars on par with Tesla every 6 months (10k km) let alone any parts that need replacing by 10 years.
If you add in fuel costs you’ll be coming in a lot cheaper .
It’s clear showing degradation of battery if a buyer wants to buy a 10 year old Tesla. Lfp should degrade much slower.
13.5k for a brand new battery is actually pretty good if you did need to replace imo.
@jv: Lol, I’m pretty sure what you are saying qualifies to be labeled “hearsay” much more than the comments opposing you.
What are your statistics on batteries failing at exactly 10 years?
@Never Pay RRP: There’s this one guy on the internet…. that also happens to be sponsored by an ICE manufacturer.
Not unlike those complaining about range being halved when towing or in the cold. Yes both towing and cold reduce range, but not by 50% unless you are doing something to enhance the reduction for likes. Think towing at full speed that uses 25-30% more fuel in an ICE but mosr people drop their speed when towing heavy loads.
@Euphemistic: No… didn't you know, towing in an ICE makes no difference at all to consumption… Apparently it's only EV's that suffer from this phenomenon.
@pegaxs: It’s an interesting observation that we are so used to iCE consumption falling on highway use we can’t wrap our little heads around EVs being so efficient around town that the aerodynamics at highway speed cause increased consumption. ICE is tragically inefficient in urban usage.
@Euphemistic: EV are not efficient.
Wasting hours of your life for the most pathetic of tasks is not efficient.
You fail to see the tax on your life that your car centric lifestyle is taking from you.
@CowFrogHorse: It’s true that a car centric lifestyle is inefficient. But if your going to have a car, an EV is far more energy efficient than an ICE. Battery vehicles are more than 80% energy efficient while ICE struggle to be 30% efficient.
@Euphemistic: See this is the problem, people like yourself thinking that there are only two choices ICE or EV.
The problem with EV is morons think there is no third choice.
More around 16k including labour.
All batteries die a little with each charge. After enough charges the capacity they hold is much less than when they were new.
This is true, but it’s very little in modern systems and they are still expected to be at better than 80% capacity after ten years.
@Euphemistic: And yet phone & laptop batteries lose significantly more than 80% capacity after less than two years.
Who says they will last ten years - the Elon hype train ?
@CowFrogHorse: The warranty on batteries in EVs is commonly 10 years. And they usually have a capacity clause of around 80% capacity in there so you can’t get a new battery just because it’s dropped a few %.
@Euphemistic: Except ev range is not sufficient in the real world with a full capacity battery. Take 20% off and they become even more of an expensive impractical joke.
@Foxxster: EV range is more than adequate for the majority of trips the average driver does. Yes, it may require charging every day or two, but if you’ve got off street parking and a charger available more than 300km of range is carting around hundreds of kg of batteries for very little benefit.
I fill my ICE vehicle around once per month. Less than half a dozen times a year I travel more than 200km in a day.
@Euphemistic: Are you saying you travel 200km a day and fill up your car once a month with petrol? Is this a hybrid/PEV?
@serpserpserp: I believe they meant they usually fill up once a month but on the odd occasion travel more than 200km a day…. not 200km a day all the time
it's written weird I know ay
@CowFrogHorse: Is your laptop/iphone battery liquid cooled to maintain ideal temperature for charging discharging the battery? If that is the case, I would push for a replacement. Oh wait!
@dealsucker: Whether my laptop is or isnt is a completely separate question and has nothing to do with the fake facts presented above.
Stop being a bully and making personal attacks that are irrelevant to a statement i have made.
@CowFrogHorse: No its not! A carefully managed liquid cooled battery by a Battery Management System is NOT the same as a laptop battery but you are too obtuse to understand that.
@dealsucker: @Deal
Feel free to share where i made a statement comparing a laptop battery to anything, if you cant be big enough to apologise.
only a single case study here but my long range model 3 before i sold it i put 100,000 km's on it and when i sold it it had only lost 5% of it's range.
Depends on the model, currently around 10-15k, however 3rd party repair replacement services are appearing. S and X are more expensive.
Actual raw materials price of the battery is forecast to be significantly cheaper in 10 years, while offering more capacity.
Interesting in the US, old non-working batteries still re-sell for thousands, as when re-cycled 90%+ of the raw materials are recovered in higher purity than when originally refined.
So yes big $$$ for a possible battery replacement in 10-20 years.
Typical Toyota engine will last 15-20years, but may fail earlier, drive trains, gearbox, brakes, services this will add up over 20 years, but not to point to offset a battery,
Who cares? They last hundreds of thousands of km.
Nothing to do with Kms.
Depends on how many charging cycles.
Good luck trying to sell a 10 year old one when buyers find out they’ll need to fork out another $20K for batteries.
One charging cycle is charging a battery to 100% and discharging it to 0%. Which you would never do.
Guess what, that is 600km for my car and that is not even one full cycle due to inbuilt buffers. If the battery can offer ~2000 cycles before decreasing capacity to 80%, that is not too bad in my books.
oops. Wrong thread
Will the new Model 3 come with a verified tick and will it still be $8/month?
$8/month will be for access to the remote key to show you’re a verified owner.
Give it one year, with the competition coming from literary every other car manufacturer and also the fact Telsa is getting a bad name thanks to its CEO I think the glory days will soon be over. The new EV coming out are very comparable to Tesla at the same or better so I think it’s only a matter of time
Agree Tesla is on the nose, but unfortunately no other EV comes close. (Polestar actually make a great EV, but completely different price range)
Tesla model Y safest car ever tested. Tesla battery tech is designed for longevity, craps all over the competition.
BYD models are great, but the tech and controls are embarrassing.
VW, controls just don't work full stop, really bad.
Hyundai, decent car and just works. But don't expect any tech, and availability is challenging.
Charging experience is still night and day between a Tesla and competition.
Imho. You're paying a premium for a Tesla but it's no different to people paying for an Apple device over anything else.
Sure, you can probably get the same components cheaper elsewhere but in terms of easy usability and reliability a lot of people pay this premium. I don't see Tesla any differently.
Model 3 and Polestar 2 are comparable.
Bad name? Here is a poll on one of the largest Tesla Australia facebook page. Woke's are vocal but not nearly a majority. Infact people who would buy a Tesla because of Elon got more than twice the number of votes from people who wont because of Elon.
When was that poll conducted? I have a feeling polls like that wax and wane to the brilliance and stupidity of Elon. And right now he is chief stupid and comments like I’d not buy a Tesla because of Elon are common, I actually like the car but probably won’t because it’s related to Elon.
This was last week.
A poll on a Tesla Facebook page isn't good data.
No it isnt if it was a random group but it makes total sense when its a group of people who either have Tesla or planning to buy one.
i have noticed the 21-22 models that have under 5k klm (there are heaps) are starting to drop
Still more expensive then what they were with the rebate and cant bring myself to own anything affiliated with musk. Anyone remember the paypal class action suit? old whirlpool users will
Well, if you make up 'facts' like a battery being worn out and useless in 10 years… sure
But what if you use reality to make your analysis?
You could drive for 10 years!
Try that with a GM or Mitsi and consider yourself lucky!
Just think of it this way.
Let me FTFY
You buy a
TeslaLand Cruiser. In106 years it'sbattery will be worn outengine will throw a timing belt and you'll need to spend almost the price of a new one to replace it.
Is that worth it? I think not.
Overpaying Twitter is having an aftertaste!
Anyone watching Tobias Linth drone shots on youtube can see a flood of unsold model y's.
Unfortunately they are all left hand drive so out market has only supplies from China.
Let me put some context on the price reduction in US which is happening because of the so called inflation reduction act which comes into effect next year and will subsidise EV's and it is a substantial reduction is price. The price reduction is to incentivise people who otherwise defer their purchase in the hope of getting the subsidy. And they can reduce the price and still make handsome money because their margins are the highest in the industry.
Its not going to happen in Australia but I'd still wait until the US subsidies kick in to see if there is an effect at all.
Of course prices will drop, Elon is everyones friend and in a year or two he will be giving them away for free because he is your friend.
Just ask his workers, not the ones who are worked 80 hours a week at twitter, but the ones who are paid minimum wage and have almost no workers rights. Its obvious from their examples that he loves everyone, and he loves them so much he pays them as little as possible.
he loves them so much he pays them as little as possible.
Don’t you mean they love him so much they virtually work for free
Yeah duckface. Tesla compensation for the factory floor workers is the highest in the industry. Fact! Now spout more non sensical opinions. And we have a vocal snowflake woke, eternally offended, eternally a victim.
Just tried to google "tesla workers" all i found were negative matches … so show us your facts where does it say tesla workers are highest in the industry…
Hardly sounds like a great place to work…
2nd match
Tesla factory workers reveal pain, injury and stress
https://www.theguardian.com › technology › may › tesl…
18 May 2017 — Tesla worker Jonathan Galescu says he has seen co-workers collapse or be taken away by ambulances. Photograph: Josh Edelson/The Guardian.
5th match
Criticism of Tesla, Inc. - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc
Musk has been noted for his erratic behavior, dispute of his founder title, and overpromises. Employees have reported poor treatment and policies, resulting in …https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Worki…
Anti-union efforts
Main article: Tesla and unionsA California judge ruled in September 2019 that Tesla and Elon Musk had illegally sabotaged employee efforts to form a union.[275] Union organizers voiced concerns about high injury rates and low wages.[275] Organizers were illegally harassed by Tesla security guards, threatened with losing benefits such as stock options, and warned by supervisors that they could be fired.[276] Tesla fired one employee, Richard Ortiz, who had been active in union organization efforts.[277] In May 2021, the National Labor Relations Board upheld the 2019 court ruling, ordering that Ortiz be reinstated with back pay and that Musk delete an anti-union tweet.[277]
High wages eh ?
If I could have a dollar for every-time an employee says "I am not happy with my employer", I would be richer than Mr Musk himself.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-workers-higher-pay-confirmed…
I doubt it. Maybe Musk is working on a truly affordable and mainstream EV though. The entire car industry is about to transition properly to EVs and his early advantage is going to disappear. Real self driving isn't going to arrive in time to save him so he's going to have to do something to save Tesla. I bet Tesla has been planning their "Model T" for years now.
Stock price certainly tanked
They have fanboyism behind them. So prices won't fall, only go up as people fall for the marketing. Just like people are happy to pay $2500 for an iPhone.
Whenever there is a post about anything to do with EV’s, I grab the popcorn. So many opinions. I won’t bite tho.
To respond to the original question… I feel that the discounts in the US are a temporary measure in reaction to the $7500 tax credit coming early 2023; an attempt to bolster December delivery numbers. I don’t think you’ll find those discounts to be ongoing, or to apply to AU.
IMO, DYOR.
Yea, that’s a good point. Could explain the discount. We’ll see if it continues.
They won’t be reacting to the stock price as the price of TSLA is pretty unrelated to how the actual products or company is operating right now.
Look at any of the large tech companies and they are down significantly from there highs (Apple, Google, Meta, Microsoft, NVIDIA) which is more to do with a huge rise over last 2 years and now concerns of a recession/reality kicking in.
At the end of the day TSLA is still hugely profitable and growing exponentially. Lots of competition in Europe and yet Tesla Model Y is still topping the sales lists.
People like to correlate the stock price crash to a single thing (Elon going crazy, and it’s certainly contributing) but to ignore the macroeconomics going on around the world is plain ignorance and joining the hate choir
Supply vs demand …. Price won't drop for a while.
Not sure why you'd get one … (Build quality). But anyway…
I expect prices to fall (but when??), they were increased temporarily to control demand, now production costs have reduced, reasonable to expect pricing will reduce.
Current build quality is quite top notch, talk directly to an owner.
FBT exemption means a base model 3 is costs slightly more under a lease than a Camry.
- Key reason to consider a Tesla over other EVs
- Battery tech is designed for longevity and full charges
- Supercharge Network (although stats show 90% of recharges occur at home)
- Safety (Model Y is the safest car ever tested)
- Technology (not for everyone, but if you like tech nothing currently comes close, if you don't go for the tech, then consider a Hyundai or BYD)
Not sure of the specific models, but there is a lack of availability on parts. They can remotely turn off/on features and/or make it a subscription .. In the past their production and repair facilities have taken a lot of shortcuts, like Gaffa taping panels
the level of service has dropped… getting 1 bar in inner melb on an iphone xr…pathetic
Unlikely given the USD.
Before I got my Atto 3, I had a watch list set up on Carsales for Tesla Model 3 standard range for anything under $55k. 2 years, never got a hit. Now, it seems every other day I am getting an email telling me a new vehicle being listed for under $55k. It seems that the Tesla morons have woken up that their pyramid scheme is falling apart.
In the next few months, I think you are going to easily pick up a second hand Tesla Model 3 with less than 50,000 km and less than 2 years old for well under $50k