Any Wheel Alignment Specialists?

tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 17:33
Last edited 27/11/2022 - 19:07 by 1 other user

I have a 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV AWD.

Front tyres wore perfectly even 60k. Rears were ok until I added a towbar and 2.5kw inverter in the boot, plus did some light towing. They scrubbed badly only on the inside 4 cm.

So got a wheel alignment at Bridgestone.

At the end I saw they made no adjustment to the rear camber (which was out by - 1.1 degrees). Guy said it isn't adjustable (which looks to be true). However, I'm sure you can get and eccentric bolt to go in to fix that.

Now they did change the rear toe from negative 0.3mm both sides, to positive 1.5mm both sides.

Wouldn't this make my inside tyre scrubbing even worse? I would have thought positive toe is the worst thing you can do with inside scrubbing?

Lastly, they changed the front from having -1mm negative toe each side, to 0.5mm positive toe on each side. Seems to wander a lot more down the left bank of roads now (I have to hold the wheel now).

I would have thought say, - 0.5 toe front left and maybe even 0.0 on the right (to offset Aussie roads draining to the left).

Front caster was left the same at 2.47 degrees left, 3.05 right. Seems back to front for Aussie roads again?

Front camber left 0.19 degrees, right 0.03 seems back to front (ie. This sounds like a US set up).

SAI left unchanged at left 12.39 degrees, right 12.59.

What do you think?

I got new tyres, so am worried these will scrub out in no time.

Cheers

• 

  MS Paint on 27/11/2022 - 18:01

  What do you think?

  Was this alignment performed at a reputable centre?

  If so then trust their judgement - this is what they do everyday.

  If not, then get another adjustment, cop the extra cost on the chin and be at peace with your suspension.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 20:25

    Took it to the local Bridgestone $75. We have moved, but our old Bridgestone were very good.

    But to simply "trust them", i dont belive we live in that world anymore. We used to think about what we are doing, but these days things are very robotic. Im guessing a young bloke (apprentice maybe) dialed in "Outlander" and set the specs to what it says.

    But our roads run off to the left, US to the right (and alignment should allow for that). So if they dial in the US model, then it will be all wrong, and pull hard to the left.

    Next, if something is off, then you need to compensate accordingly (ie. Toe in to offset bad camber). But they have simply tried to hit specs with the rest.

    But I have zero training in alignments. Just working off what would make sense..

  • 

    azero on 28/11/2022 - 09:35

    I have to disagree, most people at tire places only know that they have to get everything to green on the screen. You will be lucky to find someone that knows even within the green range you can setup the car to behave differently. More cornering / more straignthline etc…

    I can't specifically reccomend a place, but if you really care about alignment, try to find a place that does alignment for race cars. They will cost around twice of a regular alignment though.

  • 

    HeWhoKnows on 29/11/2022 - 16:07

    +1

    Where is OP getting all this technical information?

    This is a classic case of TOO MUCH information!

    Just chill out and be happy with the wheel alignment you requested and dont argue the point with the experts!

    And stop trying to be an expert yourself.

    If you know so much then do the wheel alignment yourself at home!

    PS sounds like there is nothing wrong with your wheel alignment
    Its a case of adding TOO MUCH WEIGHT for your standard suspension.

    So you are barking up the wrong tree my friend.
    Perhaps look at upgrading your springs so they support the added weight properly.
    Or alternatively install air shocks and adjust accordingly to support the extra weight
    Or do both

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  Gunnar on 27/11/2022 - 18:19

  +2

  The alignment seems a bit aggressive I would think? And if that’s the case then yeah your tyre life would be a lot quicker than what it is. Especially if you’re towing. I’m also assuming that your suspension itself is not shagged?

  Admittedly it’s been quite some time since I played around with alignment settings (and mine were for track cars) so my point above may not be great info for you. That being said from your post you do know quite a lot about alignment set ups.

  My rule with alignments was ALWAYS go to a suspension place. Tyre places from my experience have always been terrible at wheel alignments. Where are you located? If you’re in Sydney Heasmans (Tempe) and Sydney Suspension (Penrith) do fantastic work on alignments

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 20:31

    Cheers. Unfortunately in SA. No damage/ no worn bushes..all good. I dont know that much, but its only a couple of axis that they are adjusting and see the basic physics of what does what. Never been to a suspension place, need to do a search around here.

    • 

      Gunnar on 27/11/2022 - 21:26

      No idea of places where I can help you sorry. I would jump onto a car forum and ask around for suspension places in SA (I’m assuming you’re in Adelaide?). A 4WD car forum or a sports car forum would lead you to a good result. In your case 4WD would be closer to the applications you’re using.

      … or just do what all good south Australians do and take it to a mate’s shed 😉

      From my (brief) google searches on places there were a few options in Adelaide I’d be inclined to try (don’t go to Pedders or other suspension store chains from previous experiences they’re not great if you have a pretty technical issue).

      As for your issue below on factory settings, call a dealership service centre and ask them, you may get lucky on what they give you. Have you checked for the specs in your service manual?

      • 

        tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 21:34

        Yeah, Was going to call the dealer tomorrow..

        As for a proper service manual, I only know of a Russian version out there (drive on the.right). Probably worth a look anyway to see if its set up on that side

  • 

    HeWhoKnows on 29/11/2022 - 16:15

    -1

    A bit of over exaggeration

    A wheel alignment involves a loosening of some bolts to adjust angle of wheels to the ground and to each other.
    Different wheel alignments achieve different outcomes.
    there is no one correct wheel alignment as such.
    But there is a factory standard one for general every day motoring.

    Usually you can look at the wear on your tyres to determine if a wheel alignment is required
    Or otherwise how the car drives on the road - if it pulls to the right or to the left.
    Not to be confused with uneven wear due to under or over inflation of tyres or even worn shock absorbers.

    If you have the correct equipment then any fool can do a wheel alignment.

• 

  brendanm on 27/11/2022 - 19:08

  Call Whiteline and get an offset bush kit to fix the rear camber. Though when you aren't towing, camber will probably be excessively positive. Probably not set up for heavy towing loads.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 20:38

    Whiteline…thanks.

    I had only seen up to 2012 Outlanders so far. So if there isnt a kit, then i would think angling the back wheels inward (pigeon) would be better to slow inside edge wear vs the outward duck set up they went with?

    Yeah, my old Outlander had positive camber and worked out really well on average. Middle of tyre did wear the least (even at 40 psi), but got 75k km out of the tyres.

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  impostor on 27/11/2022 - 19:50

  At least they told you how many degrees.

  I get a yearly wheel alignment with my service at local mycar - been never told how many degrees its off and always have to bring it back for a 2nd time to be re-aligned.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 20:12

    Just ask for a print out.

    If I didnt have that, I'd have nothing to work with.

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  FoxJump on 27/11/2022 - 20:20

  Independent suspension will cause tires to go / \ when weight is applied.

  ie: when towing your alignment is ruined due to the weight.

  either get harder suspension at the back
  or suspension assist airbags at the back
  or get an alignment while your weighty thing is attached and then again when detached.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 20:42

    Yeah, I always try to load the car as "normally" as I can when I get an alignment.

    Jerry cans in pasenger seat. Weight set weights in driver side and under seat. Couple of rims and a loaded up esky in the boot.

    The Camber is not adjustable unfortunately. But you should be able to compensate for camber with toe. However, i'll look for an offround bolt / bush to make the Camber adjustable.

    Also hoping to find the Aussie/ UK/ Japanese alignment specs. The reference specs they worked with on my car dont make sense.

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  SureShot on 27/11/2022 - 20:45

  +1

  COSTCO does wheel alignment for everyone, for $25, even if tyres not bought through them.

  Costco Auburn Tyre Shop:

  Opening Hours
  M-F 10:00am - 8:30pm
  Sat 9:30am - 6:30pm
  Sun 10:00am - 6:00pm

  Telephone
  (02)8756 4680

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 27/11/2022 - 20:47

    $25..wow…I paid $75.

    Unfortunately Im in SA.

    • 

      Geoff-bargain on 28/11/2022 - 08:07

      Google says there is a Costco tyre here
      380 Churchill Rd, Kilburn SA 5084

      Might give them a try myself.

      • 

        tunzafun001 on 28/11/2022 - 11:35

        Guess you need a Costco membership?

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  Leadfoot6 on 28/11/2022 - 01:54

  Bob Jane TMart has not been mentioned yet.
  My nearest at Nowra NSW is highly recommended.
  The last was 18 months ago for $75 on my 2004 Mitsubishi Magna AWD.
  It is still 100%.

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  StingyBritches on 28/11/2022 - 08:04

  Have you gone back to Bridgestone to ask them about that readout?
  Seems a no-brainer to do so.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 28/11/2022 - 11:39

    Yeah of course. They simply plug Outlander into their machine and it spits out x data.
    But it says "Outlander Aitrek" …with the Airtrek being the North America model. So straight up red flag. However, the left and right settings are identical (which is another red flag as our roads are never flat - to allow rain to run off). So there should be a bias to offset a drop to the left.

    • 

      StingyBritches on 28/11/2022 - 14:43

      I probably wasn't too clear - have you asked them about the litany of concerns you stated above? How did they respond?

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  Mumbles on 28/11/2022 - 14:00

  The factory starting point is never 0.0 camber, 0.0 toe. What figures does Mitsubishi say in your handbook?

  Camber is never 0.0 because wheel alignment will change dynamically when taking corners. The factory settings are a compromise to help increase cornering grip. Most manufacturers default to slight negative camber. If a vehicle has lots of body roll (eg. tall cars with high centre of gravity) the negative camber helps reduce tyre wear when cornering as the tyre sits flatter to the road when heavily leaned over. If it was 0 camber then EVERY car would wear the outer tyre edge due to cornering.

  If you never turn a corner and only drive in straight lines then you'll wear the tyre inside edge quicker than other owners due to the manufacturer factoring in occassional cornering.

  The rear Toe settings are primary for straight line stability (on road cars). In terms of safety and stability the manufacturer will always offset the Toe so that most cars are never 0 Toe. Stick with the factory toe settings unless you are crazy nuts about tyre wear AND a sporty driver.

  Anyway check what the factory settings are first.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 28/11/2022 - 14:22

    Rang 2 dealers (they "dont give out that information to the public").

    Then rang Mitsubishi Motors Australia Limited (HQ). They are unsure what the specs are and "may get back to me".

    Someone in the UK kindly sent me there specs. So got them to work off. Their specs are the same left and right side. Which tells me they are international global numbers. But at least i have some toe and camber numbers to work with.

    Will have to specify the cross caster numbers myself (pretty sad that this isnt standard). Car is sooooo much better when this is set right.

    • 

      Mumbles on 28/11/2022 - 16:58

      +3

      Please don't take offense. If it is not easy to find the manufacturer's wheel alignment (eg. owners handbook, service manual, online Australian forums) its a strong sign that your not owning a model that driving enthusiasts and car trades people care for. You'll find it hard to be taken seriously at the local tyre shop asking for a custom performance wheel alignment and expecting perfection for your non-performance vehicle.

      Manufacturer caster angles suck for most non-sports vehicles. The design engineers choose it intentionally for relaxed driving rather than handling. Its not a good idea to mess with the factory caster angles as these affect the camber angles dynamically. More castor means that camber increases non-linearly as the steering wheel gets turned.

      The 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander is a long wheel based vehicle with large profile tyres and nearly a decade of vehicle wear and tear.

      For value for money its best to find reputable trades people for your local area (preferably suspension shop or the odd tyre shop). If you absolutely must do a "custom" wheel alignment then definitely research who's the best wheel aligner in your area. You can know and specify the exact wheel alignment figures you want but in the end it comes down to their attention to detail.

      For a stock road car I'd just give it to a professional and be done with it. Its not worth the time to study, contemplate your vehicle time spent cornering vs straights, tuning for Australian road conditions, tuning for weather/comfort/compliance, your driving style, vehicle dynamics under all scenarios, etc. Why study to be a race team engineer or suspension specialist when its not going make a difference on a bus, truck, tank.

      Its great you have interest but the payoff ($ savings and time) is so miniscule. Hence the lack of interest in the Outlander owner community and car trades people.

      • 

        tunzafun001 on 26/01/2024 - 17:18

        -1

        Sorry, long time no reply.

        The tyres wear quickly on the edges.

        Also I do a regular 5hr drive and my arm is killing me by the end as the car constantly pulls to the left on cambered highways. Actually worse after the alignment.

        So just want even tyre wear and a car that tracks straight. I think the front left wheel should be slightly in front of the right.Mine is reverse.

        The old outie had a back to front caster setup as well to start with (they used the US specs). So it's a case of here we go again.

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  wimpykid on 28/11/2022 - 17:08

  +1

  I recently had a horrible exp at Bridgestone. Within 3 months of getting wheel alignment done the inner few cms of my front 2 tyres went flat! My vehicle has just run for 30k kms in total. So going back to Bridgestone they agreed to split cost and got new tyres fitted. Now after this when I try to put my vehicle to start from being parked it won’t go drive unless I press the accelerator slightly. Not sure if that’s due to this wheel alignment fix they did or a new issue..

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  Leadfoot6 on 28/11/2022 - 21:06

  Here is a link to 42 threads about wheel alignments for Outlanders from a Mitsubishi forum that I am involved with:

  https://www.mitsubishi-forums.com/search/169787/?q=alignment&t=post&c[child_nodes]=1&c[nodes][0]=18&o=relevance

  I don't have time to look through it in detail myself, but I hope that the OP might find something useful there.