Have You Achieved Enlightenment through Meditation?

Ozimodo on 22/11/2022 - 09:17
Last edited 22/11/2022 - 09:38 by 1 other user

The world seems full of accounts of people who have achieved spiritual enlightenment through meditation. Whether that be aligned with the practices of Yoga, Buddhism or even Western religions.

My question is, does anyone here have first hand experience with this? Have you achieved what the Buddhist and Hindus call "A divine, transcendent experience. Sometimes described as a sudden, transformative moment of awakening and other times seen as a more gradual process of being liberated from the bondage of the mind."

Curious about how common this actually is and how difficult people found it is to attain. Not so much talking about glimpses of something during meditation, more about some sort of profound life-changing realization. Does that really happen?

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Comments

    • payless69 on 06/12/2022 - 13:35

      That is what Albo does to us, I gave Shorten a chance but he blew it! Ah well comrades that leave price errors for dead!

  • EightImmortals on 22/11/2022 - 10:28
    +1

    "Curious about how common this actually is and how difficult people found it is to attain. Not so much talking about glimpses of something during meditation, more about some sort of profound life-changing realization. Does that really happen?"

    Absolutely, but I don't think it happens all by itself without consistent conscious effort on the part of the individual. I would also be wary of anyone claiming they have reached enlightenment for themselves. If others say it about them then I might pay more attention.

    • Ozimodo on 22/11/2022 - 10:33

      I suspect it's possible too, it would be fascinating to discuss it with someone who has first hand experience. If it's true then it must be life changing

      • EightImmortals on 22/11/2022 - 10:36
        +4

        "If it's true then it must be life changing."

        One day the novice went to his master asked

        "Master, please tell, what is life like now that you are enlightened"
        The Master paused, smiled at the novice and said, "Well grasshopper, before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. Ahhh, but after enlightenment, shop wood, carry water."

        To the outside observer life seems to go on as it always had, to the person who achieved some level of enlightenment, life goes on, but their understand of it has profoundly changed.

        • Ozimodo on 23/11/2022 - 12:20
          +1

          There is so much anecdotal evidence that people achieve that state that it cant be ignored. Sounds like a quality way to live, certainly worth investigating further

          • EightImmortals on 23/11/2022 - 14:14

            @Ozimodo: Even if you only if you make it part of the way it's still worth it. :)

          • thepigs on 24/11/2022 - 06:41

            @Ozimodo: That same master probably says if you want eightenment you will not receive it. For it is the wanting that gets in the way. Accept that you want it, yet will not achieve it, for it is our nature to avoid suffering, which is unavoidable.

            • Hangryuman on 24/11/2022 - 17:40

              @thepigs: 'if you want eightenment you will not receive it. For it is the wanting that gets in the way. Accept that you want it, yet will not achieve it, for it is our nature to avoid suffering, which is unavoidable.'

              where can I get me some of this eightenment - it sounds better than sevenment !

              I think Gautama might have said the cause of all suffering is desire (dukkha?)

              once you drop desire - no more suffering !

              • peacefulpeanut on 28/11/2022 - 00:43

                @Hangryuman: You're almost there, mate — in your understanding. I tend to believe when Sidharta Gautama reached 'enlightenment', he actually found the key to free himself from sufferings. That should be the basis of his teaching meditation as a way to release us from the cycle of sufferings. If someone whom you suspect to have reached enlightenment makes a claim as such, the person should be still tangled in the cycle of sufferings he creates himself, and therefore, not enlightened. What the person achieves, I suspect, is clarity of thinking as a result of practicing and perfecting the ability to focus.

          • Kangal on 25/11/2022 - 01:37

            @Ozimodo: Just because there's a lot of anectodal evidence does not affirm it. The same is said about Homeopathy, Essential Oils, and Alternative Medicine.

            And from what some have said above, enlightenment seems like a mindset more than anything. And it sounds like they're talking about "No Free Will". Others are talking about enlightenment as an experience "I saw colours" or "I did Ayahuasca" etc etc.

            It's vague, too vague, too vague to be useful for any person without their translation or perversion of the meaning.

            • Ozimodo on 25/11/2022 - 12:00
              -1

              @Kangal: I dont subscribe to that approach, each to their own. I tend to put some stock in accounts of people have experienced, its kind of liberating when you suspect that science doesn't have all the answers, or that only things that are consistent with the scientific process are real. Leave the door open for a bit of mystery in the world :)

              • leiiv on 25/11/2022 - 12:20

                @Ozimodo: There will always be mystery in the world that is just impossible to answer in any forseeable future. For example, is the universe finite or infinite? What we can observe is only the observable universe.

              • Kangal on 25/11/2022 - 19:51

                @Ozimodo: Well, that's your folly. "Science" has never claimed to have all the answers, or if all the answers were even possible to attain.

                The problem with subjective accounts is that they are not verifiable. And that opens the door to bad actors. And even without bad actors, and only good intentions, you can still draw conclusions that are false and potentially dangerous.

                I'm not saying be a prude, or live your life as a "square". In fact, I'm not telling anyone how to live their life. I'm just unpacking the ramifications of blind faith, it is upto your own wisdom and intelligence to do with that as you wish.

                PS: didn't neg you

    • ForkSnorter on 22/11/2022 - 10:41
      +1

      Absolutely, but I don't think it happens all by itself without consistent conscious effort on the part of the individual. I would also be wary of anyone claiming they have reached enlightenment for themselves. If others say it about them then I might pay more attention.

      How on earth would someone know that another person had reached enlightenment, assuming we could even agree on what enlightenment is?

      Some Japanese Zen sects present a "certificate of enlightenment" to a monk who has allegedly achieved it.

      The whole notion is just ridiculous.

      • Hangryuman on 24/11/2022 - 17:45

        the only two people I've told in person that I reached satori - the first was a female I was breaking up with - she scoffed at the 'outrageous arrogance' - so I said no more about that to her.

        the second was an Indian colleague who was so interested he brought a friend seeker to meet me - who questioned me for a while and obviously wasn't impressed with my magical powers so went away unsatisfied

        I just wished I could give them this beautiful moon … http://users.rider.edu/~suler/zenstory/moon.html

    • trapper on 23/11/2022 - 19:27
      +4

      In western society anyone acting in a way that an enlightened person would behave would be thought of as a complete weirdo. The guy you see living in a shack under a bridge or whatever.

      There is no real need for material things once you truly understand that everything your brain experiences is actually constructed inside your brain anyway.

      Your senses are just inputs that can be switched off or changed to a new 'channel' like a TV show.

      • thepigs on 24/11/2022 - 06:46

        That is so true. But how do you feel about longevity? People in houses generally live longer.

      • monkeyfood on 24/11/2022 - 21:35

        if you can switch off hunger and thirst I might be interested

      • creamandpaper on 27/11/2022 - 21:20

        if you are "enlightened" and on OZB, I'd question your enlightenment 🤣

  • Porker on 22/11/2022 - 10:55
    +1

    Generally speaking, 'Enlightenment' and 'everyday (normal) life' don't go hand in hand. Even Buddhist monks that may meditate the majority of their lives won't achieve it, assuming it's definable too.

    I suspect the best that most 'non-monks' might achieve is an acceptance of the world and life such that that may provide some peace with things. Eg. If something bad happens to me, then that's karma. Where others might be angry, a person at 'peace' may just move past it.

    • Roman Sandstorm on 22/11/2022 - 12:27
      +2

      @Porker

      If something bad happens to me, then that's karma

      I just need to rant against 'karma' for a bit… 😄

      The only way that the concept of karma can have validity is if one accepts that there is a 'force' or 'influence' or whatever, in the universe which, a) judges the behaviour of individuals, determines whether such behaviour is good, bad, positive, negative, beneficial, harmful, whatever… and then b) actively interferes and changes the subsequent flow of the universe according to the said judgement.

      In other words, it's just 'god' under another name.

      Good things happen. Bad things happen. Completely random things happen. As humans, many of us (most, I would hope) would prefer more good things. But to rely, or pin hope on a divine 'balancing scale' is naive, childish, and flies in the face of thousands of years of lived human experience and evidence.

      • Ozimodo on 23/11/2022 - 12:18

        I have trouble agreeing with that. It seems to me that for thousands of years Karma, God etc were the norm across all cultures. The denial of that in the face of a more scientific approach is a relatively new (and popularly accepted) faith

        • Roman Sandstorm on 23/11/2022 - 13:01
          +1

          @ Ozimodo

          for thousands of years Karma, God etc were the norm across all cultures.

          For thousands of years we thought earthquakes, or floods, or famines were the gods angry with us. We belived disease was caused by bad air, or demonic possession.

          Because soemthing is old, does not imply it is correct.

          scientific approach is a relatively new (and popularly accepted) faith

          You see, if you point out the actual flaws in science and scientific method, that's fine. Science can accept this (whereas faith rarely accepts criticism of any kind), and modify its views.

          To suggest science is a 'faith' itself is ludicrous. The very method of doing science is based on principles and evidence; there is no need to 'believe' anything.

          • Ozimodo on 23/11/2022 - 13:57
            +3

            @Roman Sandstorm: Ok, the actual flaw with science is that it pretends to be the ultimate Truth, when in fact it simply a deductive observation process that reveals localised "truths". People who believe that anything that cant be proven by science therefore does not exist, or that accept everything science says without question (or necessarily understanding it) are exhibiting all the signs of a faithful flock. I am not religious but it seems that religions are far more accepting of science than the other way around.

      • trapper on 23/11/2022 - 19:31

        The only way that the concept of karma can have validity is if one accepts that there is a 'force' or 'influence' or whatever

        It's more like accepting that things are the way they are.

        Like when you see a wild animal attack another wild animal, you think 'well that's nature for you'. You don't start planning revenge or expecting that attacking animal to get what's coming etc

        • Roman Sandstorm on 23/11/2022 - 20:47

          @trapper

          It's more like accepting that things are the way they are.

          Sure. But then there's no 'morality' assigned if you accept 'karma' like that. It's good. It's bad. Whatever. Or is it only karma when the outcome is negative?

          I am 100% on side with accepting the reality which occurs, and not assigning any particular meaning or intent to it.

          My point was about believing 'karma' 'evens out', or 'catches up with you', or… doing good in life provides good returns. And vice versa.

          • trapper on 23/11/2022 - 21:30

            @Roman Sandstorm: It probably does 'even out' in a way, but that doesn't require any mystical forces.

            ie, If you go around being a grumpy dick to everyone that will certainly 'return' to you in many ways. If you lie, cheat and steal no-one will trust you etc

      • Lender on 23/11/2022 - 23:39

        Another aspect is that if there is a ‘force’ its very unlikely it will think or function like us so it must be almost impossible to understand how it works.

      • allicat on 24/11/2022 - 20:04
        +11

        You misunderstand what karma means in a Buddhist sense and conflate it with the Western pop definition. It disappoints me a bit that someone can write so many words against something without spending the time to learn what it's actually about but it doesn't surprise me. I will do my best to explain what karma actually is, and how it fits into meditation practice and the idea of enlightenment.

        Karma in the Buddhist sense simply refers to cause and effect. When you do things borne of "skillful" mind states you tend to live a happier life, while doing things borne of "unskillful" mindsets tend to make your life more difficult. Someone who is friendly, kind and honest is likely to live a life with little mental stress as people will want to be friends with him and he will not have many regrets that trouble him. On the other hand someone who is malevolent, greedy and dishonest is likely to encounter a lot of mental stress as people will have a negative opinion of him, and he will spend a lot of time worrying about and hiding his misdeeds.

        The idea of karma is not related to material rewards. Someone who has a lot of material objects can be very deeply unhappy. This could be because of the actions they made to get to a position of material wealth. Karma only describes how our mental states change. Positive mental states lead to further positive mental states while negative mental states lead to further negative mental states. It is like the idea of inertia in physics. When a ball starts to roll it becomes harder and harder to change its direction as time goes on and it gains speed, just as it is with mental behaviours and patterns.

        There is also no need for an external judgmental reference point to exist for karma to apply. The only reference point is your own emotions. Positive emotions such as love, happiness and peace and strengthened when we act from thoughts borne of these emotions. The opposite is true for negative emotions such as anger, sadness and anxiety. You will always be subject to the laws of karma as long as you experience emotions.

        The idea of meditation is to gain momentary awareness of the emotions that lead to thoughts and then the thoughts that lead to actions. By gaining precise momentary awareness, you can stop yourself from engaging in negative emotions and engage only in wholesome states. The vast majority of people who don't meditate don't have this type of awareness and so they run on autopilot, just acting on the emotional impulses without any understanding for what is actually going on.

        When someone spends a lot of time meditating and getting deeper and deeper into the processes behind our minds, there comes a point where they see clearly the processes behind thoughts, feelings, and even personality. They see that these things, which we generally feel to be very solid and real, are simply self perpetuating processes without any intelligence or individual behind them. They then realise that these things are not as solid and real as they once were thought to be, and holding this belief any further will just cause more pain and suffering so they let go. This seeing and letting go leads to the state called enlightenment which is said to be free of all suffering, not because there is nothing that can harm this individual, physical harm is still possible, but the mental processes that lead to suffering are no longer present.

        • amsaini15 on 25/11/2022 - 06:03

          Very well explained!

        • Hangryuman on 25/11/2022 - 13:39

          "You misunderstand what karma means in a Buddhist sense and conflate it with the Western pop definition" - from semiotics, it is unclear who is the "You" or intended reply-to subject. Perhaps you simply misunderstood the technology and how to click reply below the comment you wish to respond to - as the word "karma" didn't appear in the OP.

          "the idea of enlightenment … The idea of karma … The idea of meditation" - suggests to me that you are well-read and learned on the intellectual subject, and are unlikely to have actually experienced …

          in other words, even the best attempt at an intellectual description will never quite match the actual experience.

  • treekangagaroo on 22/11/2022 - 11:12
    +3

    I don't do what the practitioners call meditation or yoga or any gimmicks, but I learned to talk to myself by sitting down at a calm place (I kind of think it as being in peace with myself). I need less external emotional support as I learned to control my own emotions to a large extend. Initially you might feel odd but once you are in it you enjoy every bit of it . 15-20 mins a day will do

    • Ozimodo on 23/11/2022 - 12:16
      +1

      After looking at this for a while it seems like that sort of practice is at the root of most eastern philosophies. Clearing the mind and exploring what is left when there is no thought

  • Tomhaigh1 on 22/11/2022 - 13:09
    +4

    Mate, I am part Hindu, believe me don't fall for all these BS, these are marketing tactics found in almost all religions.

    Yoga and similar exercises (gym, singing, meditation, even nutting :D) in addition to physical are mostly breathing exercises where you focus on certain things for a period of time, doing those regularly will keep your body and mind healthy.

    The "awakening" for me is the stage after mid life crisis, you cant rely on others to find for you.

    • Ozimodo on 23/11/2022 - 12:15

      That's a really interesting take on it. Have you had any luck with your Hindu practice of sensing anything more ethereal than the "now"? Or is it purely a practical thing?

  • Bystander on 23/11/2022 - 00:45
    +2

    IMHO, no, meditation in and of itself is not a pathway to enlightenment.

    My meditation teacher spent a number of months in residence with Maharishi Mahesh and became a certified TM teacher in the 1970's. 40ish years of regular practice later and it was very, VERY, clear that he was a long way from enlightenment. He even said as much in one of our conversations.

    For me meditation is a form of therapy. It does help to still the mind for a while each day. The benefits that I feel are subtle but significant enough to make me want to continue on a daily basis.

    As for enlightenment I think there are a number of people alive today who have achieved it. Dalai Llama, Tolle, Spira, Mooji, Gangaji, are just a few that I'm aware of that appear to have transcended suffering. I'm sure there are more. But for the majority of us mere mortals it's not going to happen and frankly I think it's a mistake to seek it. The goal for me is to attain a greater sense of self awareness, to be progressively more mindful over time, and to reduce the mental chatter. Simple and lowkey goals for a simple and lowkey life.

    • Ozimodo on 23/11/2022 - 12:13
      +1

      Some good points here, well balanced. It seems that there are two benefits to yoga type meditation. One is improving quality of life and the other is a more spiritual connection. I've sort of landed in the same place, happy to explore the here/now benefits further and not become more ambitious than that for now. If there is a higher truth hopefully the practice will reveal at least glimpses of it. There seems to be a risk of becoming disillusioned if you set your goals to high to begin with.

  • Buttocks on 23/11/2022 - 08:10
    +2

    Good question…let me meditate on it.
    Ommmmm

  • bjasani on 23/11/2022 - 08:17

    Google Jainism…

    • [Deactivated] on 24/11/2022 - 23:31

      oooohh you trynna convert us huh? thats vainism!

  • SydneySwan on 23/11/2022 - 09:29

    No.

  • Woody982 on 23/11/2022 - 12:56

    What is this? A cultivator manhua?

    Lol

  • ECE on 23/11/2022 - 17:25

    No

  • DiscoJango on 23/11/2022 - 18:24

    Daniel Jackson did.

  • belongsinforums on 23/11/2022 - 19:06

    Me AMA

  • 9674784 on 23/11/2022 - 19:12

    Not quite but I did some hypnotherapy and it was life changing.

    • poglet on 24/11/2022 - 09:11

      Can you elaborate further on this. ie. Did you see a professions? Where the changes immediate? etc.

  • Embaloo on 23/11/2022 - 21:28
    +1

    Yeah I have, but not through meditation as you are asking about. It was a transcendant, spiritual realisization of the truth of my own plight, (past and present at the time), a stark realisation of my own character and conviction of my ultimate, meaningful purpose in life. I remember it distinctly after a major family crisis, and also after doing lots of reading and research (active and passive).
    Rather than an emptying of the mind towards unity in a Hindu sense, it was more everything coming together and making sense, of the universe, time and purpose.
    Amazing moment that I remember still today and can see how it has changed my life over the years.

    It was also the first time I believe I felt true and complete peace.

    • thepigs on 24/11/2022 - 06:55

      Whats your purpose?

      • Ozimodo on 25/11/2022 - 12:01

        Im sure that a personal thing, seems a bit rude to ask

        • SpainKing on 25/11/2022 - 12:50

          Embaloo's happily providing information on their personal view/experience, it seems polite to inquire further to bridge gaps of understanding. Seems rude to criticise someone for asking a legitimate question

        • Embaloo on 27/11/2022 - 21:14

          Nah all good.

          Yes personal! But too good not to share, so happy to,

          In short, my overall purpose is to know and glorify God, and enjoy him forever (starting from that crisis time).

          This includes how I relate to others and conduct my work & live through ups and downs while i'm alive, but ultimately my purpose being - not for my own glory, but his, because he is worthy of it.

          To clarify, by "God", I mean as revealed specifically in the four gospels, and the new and old biblical testaments, which I studied for ages but didnt understand or appreciate, until that enlightenment.

          • Hangryuman on 28/11/2022 - 15:24

            @Embaloo: 'by "God", I mean as revealed specifically in the four gospels, and the new and old biblical testaments, which I studied for ages but didnt understand or appreciate, until that enlightenment'

            my father was a Bible scholar of the original Greek and Hebrew, and did tell me of some meanings that got lost in translation

            also like the Koran which one English version I opened started with basically 'all fall down before the Almighty who can destroy to crap out of you' - sure if you want to believe that as God's Word and not just something written by humans with vested interests some time ago, sure help yourself - I did read Christians were more likely to donate after Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans, and I went to Sunday School to learn how to be a 'good' person, so hey yeah that's 'great'

            I stopped believing the 'Good Book' when I saw too many believing 'God Told Me to Kill YOU'

            “Life in Lubbock, Texas taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth, and you should save it for someone you love.” - Butch Hancock

            • Embaloo on 30/11/2022 - 10:32

              @Hangryuman: Sounds like you have quite a few mixed feelings about biblical scriptures, and others.

              While your father was a biblical scholar,from your perspective, did what he read and study, change his life? Or give him any assurance about his life, or peace?

      • Embaloo on 27/11/2022 - 21:17

        Happy to chat more about it. So many I know have the same purpose, and its incredibly stabilizing. Do you know yours?

    • Hangryuman on 25/11/2022 - 13:42

      "the first time I believe I felt true and complete peace"

      nice - but it sounds like it was only temporary and perhaps somehow triggered by or associated with a major family crisis, and not continuing today ?

      • Embaloo on 27/11/2022 - 21:32

        Yes triggered at that first enlightenment, but thankfully continuing!!

        Yep - regular or major cares and concerns affect me, (so many of which are important and lead me to take action), plus I am great at mucking life up, which means day to day life isnt a constant state of perpetual bliss lol, but when I pause to remember the spiritual truths i've learned, the peace returns.

        It's crazy, man.

        It's described as "peace that transcends all understanding", and I totally agree.

  • this is us on 23/11/2022 - 21:56
    +1

    Meditation makes me feel good but I often disengage after some time, for no particular reason (tired, working too much, spending time with other things). After some time, I miss it and start doing that regularly again…

    My life routine definitely doesn't help… Work is always chaotic, particularly after covid.

    Anyway, I like some guided meditation tracks from Brain Sync (Kelly Howell).
    I also listen to Calm and kind of white/rain/river noise to help with sleep every night.

  • inherentchoice on 23/11/2022 - 23:11
    +1

    Why is "enlightenment" the goal? Your goal is merely some kind of fleeting feeling or experience?

    Surely real enlightenment is to know the TRUTH about life, death, the universe and ETERNITY. And there is only ONE truth about where everything has come from and what will happen to us and everything in the future.

    So… is there anyone in history who was raised from the dead and can point us to this truth? Is there not one man who claimed to be the way, the truth and the life… and who demonstrated his extra-terrestrial origin and divine authority by rising from the grave? And was his coming to this world not foretold centuries in advance, in hundreds of written prophesies which were fulfilled with staggering accuracy!? Is this not the truth?!? Can anyone disprove this???

  • Alligate on 23/11/2022 - 23:13

    Yep

  • hdus002 on 23/11/2022 - 23:35

    Big religion-skeptic here.

    However have had a general interest in spiritual things, and tried out the 10-day Vipassana course. I definitely had the occasional flashes of what they define as enlightenment (their claim is this is what the Buddha actually taught). Would recommend it if you're spiritually inquisitive. For me, I didn't pursue it after the course, I realize I'm just not that committed enough to spend time on daily meditation or disciplined enough to follow some of the prerequisites on a daily basis.

    • Gaz1 on 24/11/2022 - 16:13

      Interesting. How would you describe the occasional flashes of what they define as enlightenment?

      • Hamlet on 24/11/2022 - 23:22

        You realise the impermanence of sensations, both comfortable and uncomfortable. You realise that your body is not you — you can't control it. And you also realise that no matter what you do, you will find suffering in different parts of your body, in one way or the other. Enlightenment means seeing all these three things - Impermanence, non-self, and suffering — and learning to accept them.

  • Lender on 23/11/2022 - 23:50

    If enlightenment exist, chasing it will be like a kid wanting to know about how to get a trophy.

    Maybe aim should be to find inner peace.

  • Blargman2001 on 24/11/2022 - 01:22
    +1

    No enlightenment, but I've learnt a lot that some would say make you a 'wiser' person.

  • FittyFitty on 24/11/2022 - 03:04
    +4

    I have reached enlightenment by coaching myself to achieve a whole-of-body orgasm by nipple stimulation combined with controlled breathing and contracting the pelvic muscles, only.

    It's so intense that it feels like you blow from your head and through the spine (rather than just the sexual organ)…

    I have come to realise that it would be possible to elevate this experience by doing it with another person in sync, with eyes locked, but my Mrs thinks I'm weird and starts giggling, messing the whole thing up.

    This may be oversharing, but it's bloody enlightening, that's for sure…

    • thepigs on 24/11/2022 - 06:57

      Best comment on ozbargain

    • Bystander on 24/11/2022 - 14:25

      I don't think that's the sort of enlightenment we're talking about here but where on earth did you learn about that?

      • FittyFitty on 24/11/2022 - 15:48

        I can say that it was self-discovered; after a week of no sexual activity, I realised the nipples were ultra hypersensitive, just by casually rubbing onto a cotton tshirt and further exacerbared with some dirty thoughts. Thought to myself, we're onto something here, and my word we were…

        I later read that the concept does feature in Kama Sutra and that it is also possible with breathing exercises only.

        • Hangryuman on 24/11/2022 - 17:48
          +1

          I'm not sure that taking a load off is the normal definition of enlightenment

  • nobro25 on 24/11/2022 - 06:36

    I have.
    During COVID I sold my house, car, family and left my Job.
    Now I'm a full-time Buddhist Monk Trainee ready to live in the mountains of Shang-Chi.

    • Hangryuman on 24/11/2022 - 17:49

      how much did you get for your family ?

      • monkeyfood on 24/11/2022 - 21:38

        probably worth 20% more now

      • nobro25 on 28/11/2022 - 06:23

        I'm glad you asked. I ended up donating all the monies to the Buddhist association. As Sifu says "Money is a consumerist's way of blinding them from the peaceful reality of having nothing".

    • Hamlet on 24/11/2022 - 23:23

      So why are you on Ozbargain? I thought Buddhist monks can't handle money?

      • nobro25 on 28/11/2022 - 06:26

        I'm glad you asked that question. Whilst it's true Monks have no need of money per se. As Sifu says, "We need to both enlighten those that are in need of wealth and those that have abundance of."

        Basically we are here to reach out to any communities.

  • Cave Fire on 24/11/2022 - 06:43

    Moksha/liberation should be the goal of everyone. It means not being identified with the physical body. It is similar to "Christ Consciousness". The liberation would be complete disassociation and an " ascension" or peak event would take place. So this is when the Kundalini reaches the crown chakra. There's also different criteria and methods. Going into deeper meditation with fasting and yoga is standard one. A teacher/support is also advised as it is risky.

    • Hangryuman on 25/11/2022 - 10:29
      -1

      you lost me at 'should' - that's my favourite word for identifying people who were raised Catholics

      who say that they feel they 'should' do something, but then don't, then feel guilty about it, so then feel they need to go to confession, and church on Sundays, where the attendant with the bag on a long stick would poke the seated if they didn't put enough money into the bag for the bagman.

      like marketing - create anxiety, an urgent 'need' - then suggest it can only be satisfied by spending money

      When a TV US Evangelist says "God Wants You to GET RICH !!!" - he usually means he wants a new helicopter.

      • Cave Fire on 25/11/2022 - 22:27

        I'm Hindu. The idea of moksha/liberation is the end of suffering/rebirth for the individual and slowly the whole planet.

  • kaleidoscope on 24/11/2022 - 07:28

    My question is, does anyone here have first hand experience with this

    Huge misconception. Only a person like buddha can achieve this. A normal person can get into a state of nirvana / arhat. This state of mind or understanding is said to be where you have released your self from cycle of rebirth and that’s should be the goal.

    Now to reword your question “has any one achieved nirvana”. Here is the thing, someone who has achieved this state is not someone that advertises it on social media for fame. They only discuss these matters with their masters and most trustworthy people. You won’t find them lurking around in ozb as the fact that you’re in greed for a “bargain” simply goes against what it is :-)

    • belongsinforums on 24/11/2022 - 07:49

      TIL Buddha shops at Harvey Norman

      • kaleidoscope on 24/11/2022 - 08:28

        If he'd done that we'd have better deals at HN as Gerry would have given up the greed -_-

    • Hangryuman on 24/11/2022 - 17:52

      'Only a person like buddha can achieve this. A normal person can get into a state of nirvana / arhat … to reword your question “has any one achieved nirvana” … someone who has achieved this state is not someone that advertises it on social media for fame. They only discuss these matters with their masters and most trustworthy people. You won’t find them lurking around in ozb'

      meh - I think my description is arhat - one who has achieved satori/nirvana but ain't gonna teach others like yo buddha

      and I hang on ozb mainly for the fun comments - and today's topic is one I can speak to (must mean I don't know - right?)

  • zeoko on 24/11/2022 - 08:47

    Yes it does. To get some life changing enlightenment you would need a genuine teacher (who has no material desires) and you need to be a sincere student to learn. It then works like gun powder catching fire.

    • Hangryuman on 24/11/2022 - 17:53

      'you would need a genuine teacher' - mmm - sounds like you might be … a teacher … ?

      • zeoko on 24/11/2022 - 20:38

        Nope. Far from it.

  • User102430 on 24/11/2022 - 09:07
    +6

    Disclaimer: I’m an engineer, well regarded in my narrow field of expertise, living a normal life, family, wife, car etc. Most of my friends are not aware of what I’ll write below and I prefer to stay anonymous.

    When I was a child, I had a serious medical condition that would make the rest of my life miserable, and after months and months of therapy that gave no results, I experienced what one could only describe as an impossible miracle – I was perfectly healed in a short amount of time. No medical explanation exists until now of what and how it happened. This opened up my curiosity and I’ve learned and used various tools like meditation (and many other spiritual practices) to improve day-to-day quality of my life, which is the greatest aspect of it, to be honest. As a bonus, I’ve also experienced myself, seen it happen or heard from very trusted sources about practically all kind of “miracles” – healing (to some extreme degrees, like nearly completely paralysed people), past life memories, exorcisms of various all kinds flavours, contacts with non-physical beings (going up to something you could describe angels - very advanced forms of existence), out of body experiences, aliens, clairvoyance and precognition, living on light and non-eating for months, and so on – the list is very long, and I guess already sounding too crazy to many.

    For quite some time I was also interested in enlightenment, and this is my current understanding of it.

    Imagine you’re at the bottom of a valley and want to climb a mountain. You take the effort, the path is never smooth and linear, and can go up and down. After some time you realise you’re higher than you were before and start noticing things that were not seen clearly earlier – that there’s not just one mountain, but now many of them, not one path, but many, and also, that the mountain you’re climbing is just a small hill and there are many much higher peaks to conquer. So you keep walking, you’re higher again, and you see even more – and the whole story repeats, you see even higher mountains ahead plus the area you see is bigger and bigger. And so on….

    So that raises few questions. At what point of your climb you are “enlightened”, since there’s always another higher mountain ahead of you? Two, with so many paths and effectively no map, how can you honestly compare yourself and your progress to the progress of others? How can you ultimately measure it when even definitions of “enlightenment” or “nirvana” differ, depending on source, so by which definition you can consider yourself as self-realised? For that reason, I don't think I can ever call myself that term… but also I don't care about it. My own path is more important that looking at the paths of others, regardless how high they climbed.

    Finally, if you truly achieve and experience higher spiritual states, then you realise that there’s no words basically to describe it – it’s like explaining colours to a blind or music to someone who’s been entire life deaf. Let me try to do the impossible and give you an example of that – which may demonstrate a little tiny bit of what’s actually possible. I’ve been recently deepening my understanding of, well, what you’d describe as Soul, Higher self, etc. whatever the name. When reaching a certain stage of closeness, I was filled with love. Now, that sounds tacky – everyone knows what love is, but have you ever experienced one that is unconditional and infinite, that fills every single cell of you with ecstasy, bliss and acceptance. Nah, not just every cell – your every thought, every emotion, every action, everything that you’ve ever said, done, every mistake you’ve made, every bad thing you’ve done, absolutely everything that you were and are in this life? One can only imagine what it feels like to experience that, as you have some concepts of love, however to experience that is beyond words. And this is just a tip of the iceberg of possibilities that exist….

    • leiiv on 25/11/2022 - 01:16

      I think the definition of enlightenment as known in buddhism is when you stop walking or climbing. That's when you know that there's nothing higher, bigger or better, as there can be nothing more "still" than still.
      There exists many higher mental states which you describe as ecstasy, bliss, etc but they are not the nirvana defined as the end of suffering.

      • Hangryuman on 25/11/2022 - 10:33

        the Ten Bulls - return to the marketplace - indistinguishable from everyone else -
        https://www.deeshan.com/zen.htm - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls

        • leiiv on 25/11/2022 - 11:00

          Too much baggage there. I believe in the more direct approach. This is the quote from the source (Bahiya Sutta, Ud 1.10):

          In that case, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In what is seen there must be only what is seen, in what is heard there must be only what is heard, in what is sensed there must be only what is sensed, in what is cognized there must be only what is cognized. This is the way, Bāhiya, you should train yourself.
          And since for you, Bāhiya, in what is seen there will be only what is seen, in what is heard there will be only what is heard, in what is sensed there will be only what is sensed, in what is cognized there will be only what is cognized, therefore, Bāhiya, you will not be with that; and since, Bāhiya, you will not be with that, therefore, Bāhiya, you will not be in that; and since, Bāhiya, you will not be in that, therefore, Bāhiya, you will not be here or hereafter or in between the two—just this is the end of suffering.

          • Hangryuman on 25/11/2022 - 13:48

            @leiiv: wow - too much repetition there - is that designed to induce a relaxed state of mind where readers … fall asleep ? or perhaps enter a suggestive zombie like state where they will be inducible by Join-the-Moonies type spiels ?

            I once went to a 'free meal if you just listen to a talk' in Manhattan - OK I was free and open to new experiences - the talk started by a guy who … started … to … leave … one … second … between … words. I recognised this immediately as a hypnotic technique, but waited 5 minutes to confirm it was gonna continue that way for a looooooooong time - before I balked and walked - outta there. No free lunch there !

            [link] 'This exalted utterance was also said by the Gracious One, so I have heard'

            the Gracious One may shove that exalted utterance where the sun don't shine … ;-)

            [have you heard the definition of a cult - a single charismatic leader, controlling people's lives, etc.?]

  • mrhanky71 on 24/11/2022 - 09:44

    I always end up falling asleep and having a nap every time I try to meditate

    • trapper on 24/11/2022 - 11:57
      +1

      It's actually quite a good trick to deal with insomnia.

      When you refuse to let your mind wander it gets bored, and suddenly you can sleep.

    • Hangryuman on 24/11/2022 - 17:54

      when I meditated to satori it took me six weeks of intense concentration

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