Hi guys, I got stung twice by the same mobile detection camera within a span of 40 minutes.
I had my phone out on my lap for navigation and I totally accept my fault. But the fines hold a total of 10 demerit points. I’ve never been through this situation before.
Has anyone personally been through that? I would appreciate any help form someone who could guide. And if there is any possible way to appeal for this case?
Thank you!
If op doing two trips passing the same camera and did the same thing twice, isn't op meant to be charged twice?
Yes, but he can try play that card.
I disagree with his actions hence my cradle comment, however it's an option he could try.
RMS have no scope to waive mobile phone offences(legislated).
Only option is to contest the second one in court and roll the dice with a magistrate.
If I killed two people can I get one sentence instead of two?
@nobro25: Concurrent sentencing is a thing…using the same logic one payment should cover both fines.
But also, if there are 2 photos of the same murder and you just take 40 mins to finishing cutting them up/playing in their blood, it's still one crime.
@Assburg: Traffic offences are strict liability offences. The court won't dish out a more lenient penalty than would have been imposed had he simply paid the fine.
I had a mate who got two speeding fines, one from a mobile speed camera, and the other from a cop within like 30 mins of each other — they didn't know that they were stung by the speed camera until they received the second infringement notice in the mail.
Their appeal was denied and they went to court asking for leniency. Had to pay the fine for both, but only got one set of demerit points (which was already double as this was a long weekend).
There is a thread on reddit about this topic. If you get 'stung' doing 120km in 110 zone by several cameras over the span of x km in one trip, the judge will accept that the fine is given once as the offense occurred 'once' (in one trip in a continual line). There is a specific term for this, but I can't recall what it was.
It seems that OP got caught by the same camera twice (going to and from a location). This counts as 2 separate incidents and trips so he will have to pay up the total.
Not a lawyer, though.
There is a specific term for this, but I can't recall what it was.
is it "Double Jeopardy"?
Ask for a frequent demerits loyalty card on the 1st payment, you get the 10th fine free.
Wha cradle re ommend
DIY double demerit day… NSW government thanks you for your initiative.👍
btw.. there's ZERO leniency for mobile phone offences.
Thats not true. Ive seen someone get one overturned by arguing they werent using a mobile and it was a false positive.
It wasnt a false positive but the camera picture wasnt clear enough to show the mobile phone properly.
There are multiple avenues to dispute the offence all the way through to contesting in court, including nominating another driver. That is not discretionary leniency, for which there is a zero tolerance policy.
That's not overturning a correct fine, that's arguing the proof wasn't clear enough to be fined and thus an incorrect fine. There's a difference between overturning on a technicality and on leniency/discretion.
Might have been cheaper to get a CarPlay / AndroidAuto unit installed aftermarket than pay those fines 😔
Thats what i did, $600 sounds expensive until you think about being caught just once.
Same, and worth it!
I use a phone holder and turn on Waze while driving.
OP: I totally accept it's my fault.
Nekt minute but I should only pay one of the fines.
what are the fines worth these days? I'd be more pist with that than points.
5 penalty points and $362 fine or $481 in a school zone.
10 demerit points during double-demerit periods.
So OP's 2x5 points means at least $724.
Well deserved frankly. Good lesson learnt which is the exactly the purpose of the fines.
While not condoning using a phone while driving, should he have got an on the spot frine, he wouldn't have got the second one. I think if he has a clean sheet he magistrate will be lenient
Is that all? It’s over $1000 in QLD
Someone in my family NOT ME, was stung with like $980 Fine (SA) for like 11-20 Km/hr over the limit.
They know what and how it happened.
Cannot remember the no of Demerit points, But they dont speed now.
Double check your family member's claims? SA Police fines are listed publically. 10-19km/h over is $516 in most zones and 3 demerit points.
However if they was going 50km/h when there was an emergency vehicle on the side with lights flashing, would be classed as 20-29km/h over and $952 fine and 5 demerit points.
Yes the fine was about $950+ (<$1000) something like that.
To be honest it was good for her, they used to brag about their driving often, but not anymore after that.
There is a criminal levy/surcharge on top of the fine, which makes it quite possible.
I recently got stung with a 984 ish fine too.
The fine was on a 110 which turned into a 90 near wingfield dump.
I'm not kidding when i say this, the camera was 200m from the 90 sign and from what I've seen 90% of people are still going 110 a km after that 90 sign.
Shame i didn't save the photo, because after i paid for it they took it down. But it clearly showed that it was damn close to the 90 sign
Believe it or not, 200m is the margin they give you before they take the speed reading.
That’s a pretty decent amount of room for people to slow down the to right speed.
@Assburg: so the next option is from 110 then 100, then 95, 90, 85…….40 every 1 KM so you can slowdown naturally?
@Maxxjet: I mean, you don't need to sign it, but an "80 ahead" sign 500m or so before the change goes a long way to helping people drive smoothly.
@Assburg: Except in a school zone where the allowence is 0m. That means as soon as you enter the 40 zone you better be doing 40, they book everyone above this speed.
Were you speeding because you were looking at your phone on your lap?
This thread will go well for you
He was pinged for using his mobile while driving
Yeah I realised that from someone's comment after. I read it as mobile (moveable) speed camera
It would have been cheaper to hire a hooker and have her give you directions.
Instead he got screwed by the government and I'll bet they didn't even use lubrication.
it's more he screwed himself, the government is just the pimp collecting their commission.
^^ underrated comment there 😂
What's the going rate?…. and is there a dictation option….
asking for a friend
Boggles my mind that the government removed mobile speed camera warning signs (as it should be), people complained about getting fined and now the gov has brought them back lmao.
What’s the point of having the cameras in the first place if someone’s just going to stop speeding for a 200m stretch of road because they were warned about it?
It's supposed to reduce the accidents in that area and make that area of road safer.
Well it seems when you pay attention to your phone instead of the road you miss those signs and deserve getting caught…
Because it stops you speeding at the time that you're speeding. Isn't that the whole point?
If you are speeding and go past an unmarked speed camera and you don't realise, you still continue speeding.
I agree, even if I am not speeding if I know there is a speed camera ahead I still double check my speed. But getting a fine in the mail 2 weeks later doesn't really help IMO.
In VIC our mobile cameras are just sitting on the side of the road like parked cars with no warning signs, they used to be really obvious and you would always check your speed but over the years they have gotten more discreet and harder to spot. Got pinged by one a few months back for a few km/h over the limit, like how is that useful? Did that make the road safer that day or is it just revenue raising? Would have been nice to know in the moment that I was just over the limit and I would have adjusted my speed instead of penalizing me weeks later when I can't even recall driving down that road.
Yeah 100% agree.
Better to prevent speeding than punish you later after you've gotten into an accident, which is too late by then.
@Blitzfx: All the speed limits are displayed on the sides of the road though…
Why not just avoid speeding? That would be safest.
I mean, yes occasionally going 1 or 2km/h above the limit because they're trying to stick to 60 or 100 seems to be the norm here in Australia (I always advise people against doing so), but people should consciously avoid trying to go over the limit.
If the government is trying to curb speeding in certain areas only, then warning signs would make sense. However, the government should be trying to curb speeding EVERYWHERE.
Why not just avoid speeding? That would be safest.
Yes that is ideal, but that's not reality and never will be so long as a human is behind the wheel.
Same can be said for everything. Why not just follow the rules? People simply don't, so it's up to you to change your view of society and accept that there will always be problematic people.
@Blitzfx: Yes, I agree. There will always be problematic people.
However, if we become more punitive towards undesirable problematic behaviour, the people who used to perform those undesirable acts, will be split into:
1. The people who will improve their behaviour because they no longer wish to undergo the punishment, pay the fines, lose licences, etc.
2. Or the people who will still continue to do so - I would argue these people deserve to be punished, they deserve to lose their licences, they deserve to be fined, and even to be jailed.
Because the government reckons they have these cameras to get people to slow down and not to catch them out and they are apparently in dangerous areas so if people see the signs and slow down then their job is accomplished. Now if you really buy that they dont care about the revenue…..
What's the point of speed cameras making roads safer if they don't actually pull you over and correct you on immediately identifying an offence?
Oh that's right… It's not dangerous enough to bother.
I totally accept my fault.
And if there is any possible way to appeal for this case?
You are confusing this with a guilty plea to reduce your jail sentence?
I’ve never been through this situation before.
That’s why Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance.
You can ask for a review before paying but that’s just kicking the can down the road, only real option is elect for a court date and convince the judge on the day, good luck.
Sounds like it caught you twice, on two separate instances, over the period of 40mins? If that's the case then the fine is warranted.
Very obviously 2 different offences so yes, other than taking the risk of having someone else take it theres no other avenue
welcome to ozb mate, sus out a deal for tissues :D
Yes, this is not the kind of bargaining we do here.
Ouch, sorry OP, that sucks hard!
Yes, the 2 fines are valid, you can't touch your phone with any of your body parts while driving (in your pocket is fine), even at a complete stop.
Buy a cradle, it's actually much more useful than you think.
How have you made it to 2022 and still don't have a phone holder in your car? They are available practically everywhere for like $5. You have no excuse.
If you hire a rental car, e.g. a GoGet or a Car Next Door, then they don't have one.
Sixt don't offer them in their cars either. Luckily pretty much all of them have Android Auto and Apple CarPlay (or the ones I hired anyway)
Then put your phone somewhere you won’t use it. Simple.
You can buy small cheap vent holders that you could attach to any car when travelling.
Member Since 10/10/2022
First post: 2x camera fines
Notoriety level: very high
NSW GTA Level: 5 Stars
tanks
lol… Play stupid games… win stupid prizes.
I cant even be bothered… It's Road rule 300 if you even GAF…
You could always play the "well, I didn't really get a chance to correct my actions between the first and second incident" angle and see how you go, and you will have to forgive me if I am all out of sympathy today.
This is not directly relevant to the OP's question, but I'm interested in suggestions.
We have a lot of road laws. All well meaning. All because in some circumstance doing that thing could result in death or injury. But in the following circumstance, which actually happened to me last wednesday, how could I get out of it without breaking some law or other. Are there too many of them?
I was at a traffic light controlled intersection with a main road. I wanted to cross it. The road on the other side has a rail crossing about 100m in that is linked to the lights on the main road so that if there's a train coming no traffic is allowed to enter that road, so cars don't queue up and block the main road. When I got to the lights the link malfunctioned, and cycle after cycle after cycle of the lights I just kept getting red. I couldn't turn left, because there's not left turn on red allowed here. And anyway I was past the entrance to the slip lane, and I would have been committing an offence if I'd turn left at the lights themselves. And by the time I realised what was going on I had cars queued up behind me so I couldn't back up and enter the slip road. And I couldn't do a U-turn because there was a traffic island, so I would have had to enter the intersection to get around it and that would have tripped the red light camera. And I couldn't enter the intersection for the same reason. Besides which I didn't know when the lights would stop malfunctioning, and if I'd chosen to take my chance and argue in court that I had to I could have ended up being in the middle of the intersection when someone else got a green.
And I couldn't even use my phone to ring up the police or the traffic control centre to get them to do something because its an offence to use your phone even while you are stationary at the lights.
I just had to sit there and hope that there were cameras monitoring that intersection, that someone at the traffic control centre was looking at them, and that they could and eventually would do something. That took 24 minutes.
When I got to the medical appointment, late, apologised for that and explained why, they said people had been arriving late and complaining that was why all day.
TLDR
How did you eventually get out of the situation?
He didn't. Still stuck there asking for help on OzB and looking for deals for fuel.
Still stuck at the lights
Hope you didn’t pass a mobile phone detection camera too.
If you can’t drive observant enough to see the roof mounted speed camera sign, know the speed limit and drive close to it maybe you should reconsider driving.
Once is a mistake. Twice is a habitual speeder. Pay the fines and don’t do it again.
They got done for mobile phone use, not speeding.
Pays to read the OP.
If does. I read a few replies and the speed camera sign one must have stuck with me.
Still, stupid enough to do the crime, pay the fine.
It's not a crime, it's merely against the road rules.
@Kangal: If it's dangerous enough that it's become a very common cause of accidents, property damage, and loss of life (which it has - talking about mobile phone use while driving), it should be considered a crime.
Insta generation?¿
Yeah! We should just let people do illegal and dangerous shit on the roads! And while we are abolishing cameras, we should get rid of the road rules, licenses and traffic lights… too many traffic light apologists on this forum…
Now that seems more "Australian!"
@Parmi, how's the government gonna make money now if there's no roadside revenue raising?
Says the person with “Parmi” in their name. It’s parma.
It’s got nothing to do with the cameras - OP was breaking the law, potentially putting other road users in danger and got pinged for it twice, for which there is no sympathy.
OP, you're SOOL
Just appeal it if you got good driving history
good driving history won't mean diddly squat with a mobile phone offense.
Exactly, you have to convince the judge.
Only reason I can think of for op is he accidentally superglued his phone to his lap and was driving to the hospital to remove it when he got snapped, unfortunately he drove the wrong direction as the phone for glued upside down, so he drove back past the camera again for reach the nearest emergency department.
This sounds like something my brother would come up with…
Oddly specific details…
Take it to court and they will let you go
Yeah, let you go down to the local efpos machine to pay those two fines
The easy way is to pay the fines. The confrontational way, which has been successfully tested, by one common law group, defending an individual on Vic anti-hoon laws, was to email in certified documents into the case, and on the day, request a "summary case conference" with the police prosecutor. Two questions were asked 'Do you stand under section 9A Crimes Act, 1958' & 'when will you investigate the Criminal Charges Pending against Dan Andrews MLA'. The case was withdrawn by the prosecutor.
“Click here for this one simple trick?”
This just in in things that never happened…
Lol
Judge: So what evidence do you have
Police: 2 timestamped photos of the defendant in the car on their phone.
Judge: Defendent do you have anything to say for yourself
Defendent: I mean yes i did it but you're not allowed to fine me for being on my phone twice in one day. Mum told me so.
Judge: Riiighteo.
Say that you got stung twice within 40 minutes and are happy to pay the first fine but not the second.
And get a mobile phone cradle ffs.