A well-timed new low for the 7600X with the imminent release of B650 motherboards for a budget AM5 build! Good option for new system builders, as AMD has promised platform support to 2025+
Note though that a comparable AM4 or Alder Lake system will be much cheaper, especially if you already have DDR4 ram. For those with an AM4 system already, the 5800X3D is a great drop-in upgrade option which rivals the 7000 series for gaming.
As a fellow ITX builder I share your pain. The prices for the good quality ITX AM4/Alder Lake motherboards are all $300+, which is pushing me towards spending the extra little bit of money for AM5.
all the tech reviews put 5800x3d ahead of all am5 cpus tho which make it harder to justify paying the early adaptor tax for something that is less powerful
I think it's an overstatement to say they all put 5800x3d ahead, but it is certainly true that it trades blows with Ryzen 7000.
The fact is ITX AM4 boards are not cheap either anymore.
The ITX premium is real.
God… And I thought my Auros itx x570 was expensive at around $300… AMD has escalated to wanting to be a premium brand waaaay too quickly..
I think they've pretty much squandered any chance at gaining further market share before 13th gen is launched…
And DDR 5 ONLI?
AMD has promised platform support to 2025+
Just be aware that the last time AMD made this promise, they held back support on 1st gen mobos by pretending there were technical limitations. When board partners "overcame" them independently, they were banned from releasing those bioses. Then weeks before the marketing/"leak" cycle began for AM5, the technical limitations mysteriously vanished, and all hail AMD for their long-term support "as promised"!
Well they didn't mysteriously vanish, they had to chop support for a lot of the first gen CPUs on the 300 series chipsets to enable support for the newer CPUs. Some mobos with 300 series chipsets would've had issues powering the newer CPUs too, iirc.
So there were technical limitations and they weren't pretend, they were just not a huge limitation really. Who cares about early gen CPU support if you're upgrading to the latest CPU anyway.
It causes issues in the transition between the two CPUs, however. I.e. stores can't sell it with the new bios as it won't work on older CPUs. And if you sell your old CPU without realising the limitation (or before it's even known), you can't flash the new bios.
I believe they did a loaner CPU thing for a while as a workaround, but that's not ideal.
Who cares about early gen CPU support if you're upgrading to the latest CPU anyway.
Because lots of people on X370 were wanting a well priced gaming uplift, most weren't going to buy new mobo's + 2000,3000 series CPUs to see a moderate increase.
However, 5000 series changed the game so yes plenty of people cared or they wouldn't have bothered releasing BIOS upgrades.
Great cheap upgrade for ageing systems, people will get another couple years out of them before full rebuild.
You've misread my point. I agree with you. I'm saying one of the reasons they held back the BIOS updates for the 300 series chipsets was because they would have to remove support for the older CPUs to do so.
Given people wanted the BIOS update so they could upgrade their CPU anyway, removing support for older CPUs didn't matter.
yep early adopter on an x370 who got screwed by amd last time
Zen4 CPUs are too hot. I would choose Intel 12 Gen over AMD Zen4
Well it's up to you what you prefer, but this is just going to start being the new normal as we go forward.
As these chips shrink more and more, it's going to be harder and harder to cool the the same amount of thermal energy coming from a smaller area.
Intel 12th gen produces about the same amount of heat as Zen4 (measured by power draw) it's just able to rid itself of that heat better because it's 10nm process is less dense and Zen4's 5nm.
Though I too would rather they dialed zen 4 back a bit to rein the heat and power draw in and leave this stock behavior up to an overclock mode.
But then they wouldnt have been able to beat intel for a couple of months i guess.
Eco mode is probably what you're after. Most of the performance with reduced heat and power draw.
Yeah I'd totally turn that on, or manually set the power limit to something reasonable like 75-80watts.
It's just slightly annoying that I have to do that, or recommend such measures to friends who are more cagey about poking around the bios.
I just think it would have been a more level headed solution to leave the 95 degrees mode up to PBO like previous gens.
@Lief: GPUs are effectively overclocked out of the box too, for minimal performance gain. You can blame the focus on winning benchmarks between vendors.
Ideally, there would be a hardware switch between benchmark and efficiency mode (with efficiency set to default).
Curve optimiser might be worth a crack, I actually got more performance with less heat, took a fair bit of testing to dial it in
As these chips shrink more and more, it's going to be harder and harder to cool the the same amount of thermal energy coming from a smaller area.
You're either very well versed in chip design and understand certain subtleties beyond the normal talking points, or you've misunderstood how transistor shrinks relate to energy usage.
If you shrink your transistors to 1/4 the area, you pack four more in, and you keep your clockspeed the same, it will use the same energy and output the same heat per unit of area. Of course it's more complicated with modern architectures that switch off bits of the chip, and have variable clockspeeds for the bits switched on, but the reason the new chips are getting hotter is because they are deliberately pumping more energy into the same area to compete with each other, and because transistor shrinking is having diminishing returns in increasing overall performance (and it's getting more expensive to shrink them).
wait… 1ohm of transistor to 1/4 the size, same amount of energy, but when you pack 4x in how is that 1ohm ? let alone the heat .. or you're talking about 4x 0.25ohm of transistors…but what's the point ? are you're saying 1ohm transistor will have higher heat than 4x 0.25ohm transistor… ? confusing… XD
@dlovep: I'm not an electrical engineer, but see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennard_scaling
Or more pithy: https://wgropp.cs.illinois.edu/courses/cs598-s15/lectures/le…
Dennard (1974) observed that voltage and current should be proportional to the linear dimensions of a transistor
Thus, as transistors shrank, so did necessary voltage and current; power is proportional to the area of the transistor.
@ssfps: It's a good read to realise that 4ghz was close to the bottleneck while you factor in leakage current and threshold voltage, hence we have multi-cores to improve performance.
Reminding me that Intel was still using 10nm nodes for 12th gen..big sadge
Intel's 10nm is equivalent to TSMC's 7nm.
Uhhh… Zen4 and MB can be set to whatever temp you want it to run at in the bios… so if you set it at 65c, is it still too hot??
how does temp of a cpu core matter? its the CPUs ass thats getting hot, not the users. And AMD says its OK to have such temp. And temp not equal to power consumption and those high temps are hit only when all cores are fully loaded like rendering etc.
I don't disagree but there are a few reasons of varying validity why people might be anxious about higher temps on CPUs
Big temperature swings means more thermal stress on solder joints. As a chip rises in temperature it expands, but the substrate and the solder it's connected to expand at a different rate causing thermal stress to concentrate on the connections. With enough of these cycles the solder joints can break and cause issues. The 360's red ring of death and the ps3's yellow light of death were both commonly caused by this kind of damage. Though this usually affects bigger chips like GPUs and console SoCs compared to smaller ones like AMD's chiplets since the bigger the chip the more it expands.
AMD has a vested interest in their chips failing outside of warranty periods. It's pretty simple, but AMD would like for people to have to buy more new CPUs if they can get away with it. It's like how phone manufacturers with shittier warranty coverage always have the most overpowered fast charging.
It's a psychological thing. Big number on temp is bad. Even if these temperatures are perfectly safe, it'll take a while for people to get used to it. The same kind of negative press affected Intel back in "delid this", now it's AMD's turn. Eventually people are just gonna have to deal with it. Temps are just on the rise.
its also the room that the computer is in thats hot, and summer is approaching, electricity prices are increasing
As I mentioned in another post, there is a lot of misinformation about Zen 4 on social media. Techpowerup published a good article about how Zen 4 regulates itself depending on the cooling available. People also need to learn basic physics and understand the difference between wattage, heat and temperature.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-cooling…
If you are gaming Zen 4 will reach temperatures around 50 to 70c depending on the cooling and game. Only if you are rendering will the CPU hit is absolute regulated maximum of 95c to get the most out of the CPU.
Intel 12th gen is a high wattage CPU. Higher wattage is good when you want to turn electricity into heat. Hence, Intel 12th gen CPUs in laptops generate a lot of heat and greatly effect battery performance.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i5-beats-Core-i7-Alder-La…
"We reviewed a few new Alder Lake-P CPUs from Intel over the last two weeks and our concerns are supported by the test results. The power consumption is very high, which is a challenge for the cooling solutions. "
Your high wattage 300 to 500w Nvidia or Radeon GPU is going to heat up your room much quicker than your CPU, irrelevant of what temperature it is running at.
Thanks for the reminder about the 5800X3D… My lowly b450 mobo supports it and i can feel a CPU upgrade coming on. I have no love for ddr5 right now.
I have a B450 board too. The annoying PCIe gen 2 only from the chipset and AMD blocking PCIe gen 4 support via CPU through AGESA is a good example of AMD does penalise people with older boards.
I have a 5600x and b550 and will still probably go for 5800x3d when the 7000xts release
Surprised to already see price drops on these but hope the bad launch drops prices a bit more. My rig is going ok but really want to move off 3600 and 5700 xt
same setup mate, i reckon 6 months from now will be a good time to look into a new build
Hoping they do announce a 7800x3D equivalent like most are predicting in the near future
I wonder if it's worth waiting for a value bundle with b650 and RAM.
Worth it to get it now for a new build I'll build in January or wait it out?
Wait for black Friday/cyber Monday deals end of November. I think historically this weekend provides one of the best discounts for tech year round
I was looking at making an ITX workstation with the 7950x after I found out these new CPUs dial up to 95C and then just kinda clock the core at whatever speed keeps it there (ie. better with better cooling, but they have excellent benchmarks even with basic air cooling).
Those motherboard prices though, yikes.
Is there much different between me B650 and 670 options?
Considering that the Apple M1 Pro and Max CPUs are designed to run at 100c under load, AMD's algorithms are trying to get the most out of the 7000 series CPU under full load. You can of course tweak it to lower the wattage.
B650 vs X670
I'd power limit a 7950x in an ITX build.
I suspect the 250w peak power draw could trip the current limits on one of those PSUs if paired with a decent GPU before thermal throttling kicks in.
You wouldn't want the chip to be able to pull anywhere from 100-250w depending on how it feels in such a power limited build.
I don't quite understand the main reason to go ITX with 7950X. 7950X is best used in situations where you would need to process large data (otherwise why do you need so many cores). Going ITX means all the tricks the motherboard makers could do through PCIe bifurcation cannot be done on ITX (because you mostly want that only PCIe x16 for GPU). I guess PCIe gen 4 SSDs are already overkill for most of us.
Damn. Didn’t realise ozbargain had so many engineers able to design their own cpu.
Why do we need AMD when we have ozbargains finest know it alls!
Good deal op…
will this run on an x570?
Much benefit over 5600x?
New CPU architecture so no, it won't run on x570. Much benefit? I would say noticeable, but worse price/performance due to AM5 motherboard pricing is insanely high now
It won't run on x570.
Some of the benefits over 5600X won't be fully realised until later. PCIe gen 5 support does cost money and will depend on the board you get. DDR5's improved signalling "may" benefit 4 DIMMs setup, but it again will cost you more. USB 4 (once again $$$) - do you have USB 4 devices?
The single core and multi core performance boost, while good, is mostly to regain lead back from Intel.
Dang this is cheaper then what I paid for the 5600X back in December 2020
But don't feel bad, the motherboards for this are still way more expensive.
THE AM5's MOTHERBOARDs PRICES :'(~~~
What happen to Ryzen 6000???
They keep skipping numbers because they keep using them to signify almost irrelevant gains on laptop CPU refreshes
Same thing happened to 4000, they called laptop zen+ cpus (was 2000 on desktop) ryzen 3000, so they had to call the real zen2 laptop chips ryzen 4000
As an ITX builder its pains me to see the price of mobos